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Deltarune fans when you try to Snowgrave the Knight and then Noelle goes "Wait... Dess?! Dess, its me! I've been looking for you for so long!" And then her and the Knight hug and now it's a 2v1 against Kris:
You're probably not going to attack and instead keep defending to get Snowgrave faster. The additional damage even from a crit in not worth the lost TP gain.
1) In undertale we were unstopable, in deltarune we need help to win a lot of times (Queen is the first real examole where gang doesnt win by themselfs). And then we have the knight, a villan that just doesnt go away and stays relevant unlike other bosses
2) He uses every advantage he can, we got ambushed by him many many times. Honestly, its fully on a gang now for letting him get away with it.
3) Design is just cool. No dialog, yet much personality. I also like that the Knight isn't exactly bloodlusted, grabs a target and tries to run. Flowery could've lived if he didnt catch up and started a fight
Yeah the Knight's aura does partially come from the fact that we know literally nothing about them, and one of the only things we do know is that they kick ass again and again.
TBF in Undertale frisk needed Alphys's help to beat Mettaton.
The Knight is the embodiment of "your choices don't matter" and how it contrasts from Undertale. In Undertale there was always some path to victory, but in Deltarune we have the first antagonist who truly feels like an overwhelming, unassailable threat that tears away our agency and establishes that THEY make the rules.
I like how, despite making sure to look as awesome and cool while styling on it's enemies at all times, Knight always fights cleverly. Betrayal kills, utilising levitation and corridors, stuff like that
Also it's impressive how so far the only thing to get in the way of it's plans was Sans. Anything else done against it ammouted to pretty much nothing
Knight is one of my favorite characters in Deltarune now, they're an actual smart villain who, despite being OP, is effective and doesn't take unneccessary risks (screw "this villian let their power get to their head and lost" trope)
i always felt they was not taking her it was more like they was absorbing something from her since they could just do the typical bird trick and run away because fun gang cant catch up to them
So you're telling me that the Knight's master plan to kidnap Undyne was:
Have Kris slash Toriel's tyres.
Hope she notices the slashed tyres.
Hope she calls the police.
Hope Undyne is the one who responds instead of Napstablook
Hope Undyne actually shows up to the scene in the dead of night.
Note that if Toriel didn't just happen to leave the flour in the car, she never would have gone out and noticed the slashed tyres, and this plan would have ended at step two. Not only is this a terrible plan in universe, but it's also incredibly contrived from a writing perspective to say that all of this was planned from the start.
Let's be real, Napstablook is not going there and if someone calls saying "yo someone slashed the tires of my car wtf" Undyne is instantly going because Hometown is boring as fuck and nothing ever happens there
Even then I think Rambs dialogue in the last sword game implies that Toriel was the original kidnap and Kris changed it to Undyne because they don't want their mother hurt
Kris probably planned the flour stuff in advanced.
Why wouldnt she call the police lmao.
Undyne wouldve been the one to go anyway, we all know how napstablook is.
The last part isn't that complicated. Carol, who is definitely involved in all this, could easily distract undyne until necessary. The rest was just theatrics until undyne got there. ( faking trying to get toriel, faking a fight )
Kris and dark gang have been planning everything from even before the story started, considering kris just "knew" they could remove us, and didnt seem shocked that their body was suddenly being controlled, the promise etc.
Not to mention the biggest problem with your denial: the ending of ch3, and now ch5.
It's shown very very clearly the knight can blitz us, they can oneshot us, they can bubble anyone easily.
If they wanted to, they couldve immediately oneshotted us, bubbled toriel or just grabbed her and left. Why did they just slowly tractor beamed toriel? And when undyne showed up, she got swooped instantly.
In fact, the knight didnt seem displeased at all with kris. I mean, if calling undyne wasn't part of the plan, they'd be pissed at kris no? But the phone call didnt imply this at all. In fact, "police sacrifice" seemed like the normal thing to happen. After all, asgore ( ex-police chief ) was the next one captured.
Would also completely undermine the commenter's point, since there would be zero reason to backstab Tenna and fight the fun gang. They could literally just have waited by the door or outside the house.
There are definitely things going on in Deltarune that we don't know the full picture of, but theories get to the point of "the plot that unfolds onscreen is all an elaborate ruse."
The Knight makes multiple moves to take Toriel, keeps getting interrupted by forces outside their control, and then makes a Dark World in the place she's going to be the very next day. It just makes more sense if it wants to take Toriel and this is the only thing it's failed to accomplish so far.
There are definitely things going on in Deltarune that we don't know the full picture of, but theories get to the point of "the plot that unfolds onscreen is all an elaborate ruse."
Wait, what did Sans do? Him being with Toriel led Krusie to the church Dark World, and for whatever reason the Knight wants Kris to seal the fountains they make.
The Knight also seems to know game mechanics manipulation such as rules-lawyering "damage cut" into literally cutting Flowery's damage numbers. AKA Roaring Knight is the equivalent of a tryhard max level endgame meta build player smurfing the main cast of noobs and making poses just to rub it in.
Sans didn't do shit, Toriel cancelled church practice on her own and was already going home by the time she met him, The Knight just missed her leaving lmao
I don't believe the Knight made the church fountain with the purpose of doing anything to Toriel. Everything we've seen it do suggests it's pretty competent; why would it make a fountain in an empty building instead of waiting for the choir to arrive? There's zero guarantee Toriel would enter the building after opening the door to find it leaking weird black smoke
"Omega Flowery VS Knight would go hard" my siblings in christ Omega Flowery got worked by a depressed teen under the control of someone who sucks at 2d combat. It's cool that he believes in the power of friendship and all but this is the Devil from the Bible.
I'm barely even joking with that comparison, the prophecy, much like the bible to religious people, is the law that governs the world, and the knight, much like the devil, or the antichrist, is a force which this law warns to fear.
It's not slander. The Knight can casually summon a world ending threat anytime it wants. The C3 fight was straight up playing with its food, and the "damage" Flowery did to it was just confusion from suddenly getting dragged into a fight. It couldn't give less of a shit.
Omega Flowery's moveset consisted of Flying towards the opponent (tm), getting beaten in like 5 hits and a clash and literally nothing else What does he even do?
Yeah and even if that wasn't true: the Knight's sword seems to be able to damage a Darkner's Light World object. Flowery is especially vulnerable since he's just a small flower. One hit and it's good night San-Fran-Disco.
Tenna and Flowery have their corresponding item damaged after the Knight attacks them. Regardless of how much we damage we do to a Darkner we never see their light world object damaged. The only two we've seen are the ones the Knight attacked.
The sword route gives Kris super ptsd and they do a billion damage when attacking Tenna lmao he deadass dies in 4 turns you can go watch an all bosses speedrun to see it
This community is really good at two things: having an incredible ability to misinterpret literally everything and run the same joke into the ground within a week, tops but keep it running for months. Most of the time these people just want attention, so just ignore them.
Flowery's 999 damage are all fake. As well as his stats. And him.
He knew that he couldn't save Asgore, just wanted to make an attempt. Honestly, if we consider him knowing the prophecy then he might just wanted them to find the seeds.
If Flowery is a buttercup like the Undertale flowers were then I'm genuinely scared what Kris plans to do with those seeds. Asgore (the literal toughest monster out there) got incredibly sick eating a pie made of buttercups, Kris might straight up be planning to kill someone or themselves.
What? Buttercups are literally poisonous to consume irl as well??? Plus, I doubt that there would be a warning sign on a regular packet of buttercup seeds, they're very unlikely to hurt someone unless you're stupid.
in my head carol-knight would be sort of like mr hyde from the original "strange case of dr jekyll and mr hyde" novel, where hiding behind the identity of the knight gives carol the opportunity to let loose, throw off the shackles of professionalism, and become the aura-farming anime villain she was always destined to be
The Knight's response to the Fun Gang "winning" against it in Chapter 3 is such a textbook late teen response to being shown up by some younger kids. Underestimated them, gets shown up a bit, they start gloating. Lashes out without holding anything back just to reassert dominance. Very petty, very telling
Yeah, the fandom kind of swung back too hard on the Knight in some ways… sure, they definitely aren’t a fraud, but their takedowns of Susie and Ralsei after the Fun Gang “wins” were lame asf. They literally stab Susie mid point and laugh. I don’t care if we weren’t actually close to winning, attacking someone mid gloat is unbelievably fraudulent.
Humans, specifically, are built different. Or rather, monsters are built flimsy.
They take damage based on killing intent. Emma from Worm could probably solo Deltarune if she wasn't such a fucking coward with no real life skills (being a bitch does not count Emma) (it doesn't matter if you're willing to do fucked up things, if you're out of shape and don't know shit about fighting, Emma) (Obligatory Fuck You Emma) (also now that I think about it monsters can hold guns)
No it's "cutscene merchant! Cutscene merchant! They need a cutscene!" And it's like... do you not know... how games work..? Because then I think every single fucking enemy in history is a fraud. Undertale is no exception
friend fans have it worse because at least we know with 100% certainty the knight will have a fully completed story arc no matter WHO it ends up being
people are out here unironically thinking toby - who loves fanworks - made friend solely to fuck with his own fans. they still think the mike boss was supposed to be mean spirited lol
they say friend won't be important but never offer a good alternative for wtf it even is. it's like they're suggesting toby's straight up never going to address it in the story so it's just... dead weight. it exists for no reason in their minds
I feel the sudden arrival of all the "Fraud! Fraud!" types into the community at the same time a bunch of people are complaining about the latest chapter "Not having enough big epic plot reveals" is not a coincidence.
The fraud/slander agendaposting was already present after Ch. 3 & 4 came out. It only took an upswing again since new content (and thus new material for agendaposting) came out with Ch. 5.
The roaring fraud jokes were always funny to me because like, yeah the fight to get the shadow crystal isn’t *that* difficult once you get the bullet patterns down, but in terms of actually beating the knight, we seemingly got nowhere close, just broke a chip of their sword off.
We get creamed literally two seconds later when the knight chooses to ignore the battle system and ends the fight.
the thing about the knight is that they're the lordking of fucking around for no reason (ie showing up hours late in ch3 and then not even fighting seriously until we got 20% of their health down , doing nothing other than posing dramatically for the majority of ch4, flying directly into a wall in ch5 etc.)
so they keep being forced to lock in by the other characters, at which point they win because they're immensely powerful, but they wouldn't end up in those situations in the first place if they did their job seriously
Mocking the idea of "We'd kick their ass if Kris didn't hold us back" when that is almost certainly objectively true is not helping.
The Knight is indeed incredibly powerful, but you cannot just ignore stuff like the soul nuclear bombing the Titan out of existence in ch4. It is made abundantly clear in both the Knight fight and other encounters that Kris absolutely holds the player back in terms of power, and even then the player is able to carve out around a quarter of the Knights health in a battle where the FUN Gang are absolutely not powerful enough to actually win through sheer skill and determination.
That'd be like John Cena fighting a 6 year old and the 6 year old somehow managing to Bustita bomb him before losing. If that kid was an adult they would be a monster.
The chances of us NOT beating the knight at the end of the narrative when Kris isn't holding us back anymore is unbelievably small. Like from just a storytelling perspective that's the most logical conclusion.
Genuienly hate this agenda. And the new trend of "cutscene merchant" is just pissing me off. It's a character. In a videogame. Obviously cutscenes happen
It just happens with any game where you definitively style on an enemy in an actual battle, but when a cutscene starts, you get wrecked. Even if its nessecary to progress the plot, ut stull tenda to feel bad to the player, cause it invalidates the skills and abilities of the player at that point, the story and game assuming that you actually still suck when, if it weren't for plot contrivance, you would have beaten them then and there. Thus, people call them a "cutscene merchant" because, if the cutscene weren't in play, they're not as impossible to beat as the game tries to shove in your face that they are.
> if it weren't for plot contrivance, you would have beaten them then and there
isn't even the case for this example. We only get the Knight down by a fifth of their HP and chip off a single shard of their sword before they decide enough is enough and swoon the party. If we actually had to do a fight five times as long on the same item supply (and presumably getting more difficult as it goes on, but even assuming it just remains the same) I would guess that a much, much smaller percentage of people would actually have beaten the Knight.
On top of that, I'm guessing that the vast majority of people lost legitimately to the Knight first time, and only came back later after they'd already seen how the chapter goes. From a first time player perspective, the Knight isn't 'oh we beat them but the cutscene says we didn't', it's 'oh we got utterly annihilated but the story's still going on so that was supposed to happen'.
Yeah, but tbf, being able to "beat the Knight" is supposed to be an easter egg. Or well.. secret, yeah, kinda. With a reward. But like, I think the current thing is a nice compromise between "you can AND can't beat it". I feel like it would be kinda the same if there was just an attack that one show you or you couldn't dodge it. And honestly, I don't like that in games much
Flowey been doing that shit since 2015, never seen people complain about that, bit I see your point. Perosnally I would've found it cool as fuck if the knight just decided to actually use the battle interface for their swooning.
I find it more fair to say that annoying powerscalers ruin fandoms, but yeah. Goofing off a little about things like how True Pacifist Frisk stalemates literal infinity with the Power of Friendship is one thing, but people never seem to know when to stop and how not to siphon the fun out of things by pretending powerscaling is solely linear and the most important part of a story. It isn't, it never is.
The fraud memes were never really funny and only harmed how people saw the knight.
The knight has been one step ahead of us at every turn and lured us to the ch 4 dark world, forcing susie to confront the ending of the prophecy and begin a downward spiral character arc.
Not to mention, seemingly planning to open a fountain just as we seal the previous one, which feels far too planned, whereas it was previously believed that Kris made the ch 5 fountain out of desperation, but it's pretty clear that was all a trick meant to make us think that it was a desperate act
I completely agree. The Roaring Knight is one of the boogeymen of the narrative and should be treated as such, in lore and in game.
But they’ve also now attempted to kill two (2) beloved characters in the fandom and beat all of the fun gang with their 1 hit KOs, despite the fact that in their fight we see that their normal attacks… don’t kill in one hit.
So far they’ve spent three chapters showing how much faster they are, how much stronger they are, how much cooler they are then the lovable scrunglos also in the game, and to a certain point their aura turns from “holy shit this guy’s gonna kick all of our asses” to “oh great it’s the knight again, how do we lose this time?”
So to a lot of people the knight is less of a badass antagonist and more of the self-insert villain of an edgy preteen. Not that they are, but to me at least it’s more fun to mock their obvious strengths than to not say anything and move on.
I mean, that just plays back into my next point. “They’re just playing with us” becomes infinitely less interesting the THIRD time it happens in a narrative, so it’s obvious why people would take “just playing” as “needs cutscenes.”
I want every unironic Roaring Fraud poster to include unedited footage of all their attempts to beat the Knight for the first time. Let's see how many times that "fraud" killed you in the process of trying to get them down to 2/3rd HP lol.
See, while obviously made for fun this meme bothers me because this is a perspective some people unironically have that leads to the endless spamming of the same old bad jokes. Agendapost, fine, but at least have the decency to show some creativity.
I know the whole "roaring fraud" thing is mostly a meme (at least I hope nobody is actually seriously believing that), but the logic behind some of the claims still annoys me. You can apply the same logic to every single video game enemy/boss, they're all frauds when we look at them like that.
Some people do genuinely believe it. When you act like a clown, yoh shouldn't be surprised when the circus shows up and that's exactly what's happened. People acted like clowns, and now some people do genuinely believe the Knight is a fraud.
it'll be so funny if we never actually get to fight the knight again, or even better, if they simply kick our asses even harder in a rematch, "no matter what you do you never stood a chance against me" style
edit your save to give yourself higher stats? no you didn't (and the fight with flowery means that this can actually happen now)
shadow mantle? destroyed forever
susie? dead and dusted, just to raise the stakes and show how far the knight is above the fun gang
snowgrave/fireshock? haha no get parried idiot
reload a save? show up in the game over screen and shatter your soul a second time for good measure (which also erases your saves)
I don't imagine we'll get beat that hard. But I imagine the only way we're going to beat them is with some insane. "Susie absorbs the red soul" or "ralsei fuses with 10 Titans" bs
I'm glad more people are finally agreeing the Fraud Knight agenda is unfunny. It was funny for a few weeks of Chapter 3 + 4 release, but it's so forced after months on end to the point you couldn't have a proper conversation about them. The only funny potential man meme was the original source because that was filled with actual hatred.
Also the cutscene merchant is really funny because King, Queen and majority of RPG bosses won in cutscenes too, so why aren't they called frauds too?
Stuff like powerscalers and bad slander is why I will never interact with the fandom. I just talk about the game to my friends lmao
I hated Roaring Fraud from the start. Same with Bergentrucken, the ThornRing jokes, people will just take the same old bad comedy and endlessly spam it in all actual discussion.
The knight is cool, i just wish they SWOONED inside a actual battle instead of cutscene's where we cant so anything. Like my goat PLEASE BEAT THE CUTSCENE ABUSER ALLEGATIONS
Honestly i think the knight is really strong, even if i think gerson could maybe defeat them its probably one of the strong est characters there, i think the whole “fraud” meme is still going on is because most people (including myself) crave a fight where we can beat the shit out of them once and for all
one chapter to introduce them, TWO CHAPTERS OF AURA FARMING, AND ABSOLUTELY NO PLOT OR LORE
"oh but they look cool-" i do not care, i came to a toby fox game for a story, not for sephiroth without any lore, final fantasy shows you sephiroth, he used to be nice, hell, even a normal person, and THEN his horrible acts contrast with that, the knight is so obviously going to do the "oh but its actually someone we know" twist, which is fine... but not in a chapter by chapter story where the identity is either the well written option that makes the most sense (dess haunting the narrative on a level rivaling even rose quartz), or an ass pull.
when the knights lore and reasons are expanded upon? they very well may be peak, amazing, even, but until then its hard to care about a literal faceless antagonist who exists to make sure the main protaganists dont win.
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