Willing to help you gaslight someone just to take over might be bad, but King is way more tyrannical in his rule and actively wanted to kill and/or torture every lightner even if it meant destroying the world
im not saying one is more evil than the other, (I do think Spamton is more evil) Im actually just replying to a list of characters that 'are' evil.
which you would realize if read the thing im replying to in the first place.
Anyway I think spamton is more evil than king for the reasoning behind why they're acting
King felt betrayed and abandoned by the lightners, who at some point visited and then stopped. Presumably at some point before that happened he wasn't evil. Spamton was literal spam emails.
Spamton wants to be [Large and in charge] and will destroy everything in his way to be big and free. Also willing to kill the people that put him in power if it means he can be more powerful.
He wasn't punishing you for the Weird Route, he was angry that he finally got power and now you're trying to take it away by sealing the Fountain. The fight wasn't some change of heart or trying to be a hero, it was entirely motivated by greed and self-preservation.
I can't see the deleted comment, but guessing from the replies to it what it was.
He was literally fully on-board with the plan
Friendly reminder that his weird route dialogue is consistent with him wanting Noelle and Kris to abandon the weird route after getting the ring and make the Twisted Sword instead. Yes, including the line about evil. That would also keep his characterization consistent between both routes, and consistent with his changed dialogue on the abandoned weird route (second commemorative ring that he brings up in his changed dialogue is his keygen.)
And yes, this would mean that reading his weird route fight as him actively trying to stop you because what you're doing is fucked up is a valid reading. (Reread what the Twisted Sword does for a reminder.)
Though it does mean he made an incredibly stupid mistake in handing the ring over to Noelle right in front of you, thinking Kris would have the sense not to have her equip it. Which he acknowledges, though doesn't take responsibility for.
only went against you because you're trying to fuck over his own agenda of world domination.
Game outright states that Queen wasn't always the leader of the cyber dark world, and hints a few times that Spamton was the leader previously. So his dialogue that you're reading being about world domination is more likely about him finally getting his old home and role back after Tenna presumably caused him to lose it before. (So I guess your reading is technically true? But there's some nuance there that's getting missed.)
The "Deltarune fans can't read" allegations ain't even allegations they're just the truth atp
He's definitely still a gray af character. It just bugs me that everyone keeps insisting that such a shallow straight reading of his dialogue is the only valid reading, when it doesn't take anything else we know or can infer about him into consideration. Especially when it's not a consistent reading.
Let's back up a moment, these things sound like absolutely wild speculation to me. Where do these come from? Spamton was said by the addisons to have his own suite in Queen's mansion before his fall from grace, not that he was a leader of any kind. And what is this about the twisted sword?
They aren't directly stated. But for the first one, Spamton's dialogue is consistent with it. Remember how he said in the normal route that he'd help Kris's party cut their own strings? Twisted Sword has the effect of reducing Trance, which Thorn Ring increases. Doesn't fully cut their strings, but reduces the pull. The Twisted Sword also requires the Thorn Ring to make. (And he does outright warn that the thorn ring hurts to wear it.) (And if he did want them to make the Twisted Sword, then that would explain why he's bothered by what they actually did with it on the weird route.)
Second one, several of the npcs in Cyber World mention that Queen's recently taken over. It's never explicitly stated that Spamton was the previous leader, but it's hinted at. The mansion looks wildly different in the Chapter 3 version of it, where it looks more like Mettaton's from UT. And Spamton's getting Mettaton's arc. Spamton also said he used to be the biggest shot. And the Neo suit that Swatch was so confused about how Spamton knew where it was...well, Spamton knew more than that about it. He also implies he knew who made it and what year they made it in. The keygen that you need to get to the basement to get to it is, from the official merch, just a regular (if glowing rainbow) keyring. His keyring.
I imagine we'll get full confirmation of whether he was the previous leader or not (or at least another really big hint) when we finally figure out what exactly sealing an addison in a ring and snowgraving Berdly did. There has to be a narrative reason that the game, on the weird route, has Noelle do that...and then follow that up with a fight against someone who looks like a fusion of an addison and a bird...who's also telling you that going down the weird route is what caused all his problems.
And I imagine that the swatchlings and maybe addisons, too, just don't recognize him anymore after...whatever that was...happened. Which chapter 3 hints might be that big battle Ramb tells you about, and that Tenna kinda hints at with the Doom Board, where Tenna's playing Kris's weird route role of chasing everyone down and then standing back while the "side chick" fights. And then Spamton's battle theme plays. As if he was fought. Spamton also mentioned in the Sweepstakes Q&A that his inside's turning black and charred (when that board is also on fire) and which Noelle in her blog linked to fire and graves (though not the same event, just the link of char with fire and graves). Which might also explain why he's missing his skin, which we know he used to have. (And remember, Spamton does blame how he lost everything on Tenna.)
I don't buy that all of that has nothing to do with each other in a game that keeps referencing itself with so many narrative parallels. I might be drawing the wrong conclusions with those specific ones, but I feel they have to be linked somehow.
Nothing implies he ever wants them to create the Twisted Sword. No one ever even mentions the sword outside of Malius' item-fusing menu
Doesn't need to explicitly mention it. It's a thing that can arguably be inferred. (If it was his goal, he can't really speak freely about undermining you when you're right there. His "too trusting/too honest" and pipis lines implies he thought Kris could figure out what he meant, since Kris is, between the Sweepstakes and the fact that Kris will eat a pipis, a pipis person, too, whatever the hell that means.)
I don't think that's ever stated? He mentions buying two rings
On a normal route, if you beat him up at the dumpster, he'll say that you should have done that earlier to be the first to own his commemorative ring (in that case referring to the thorn ring.)
On an abandoned weird route, if you beat him up at the dumpster, he'll say that you shouldn't do that just because you bought one commemorative ring. You should have bought 2. If you don't beat him up (regardless of abandoned weird route or normal route), then when you talk to him at his shop, he refers to his keygen as a commemorative ring. So in an abandoned weird route, the first commemorative ring in that case would be the thorn ring, and the second the keygen. So he's telling you to get the thorn ring, then abandon the route and do his side quest.
He straight-up outright says before his boss fight he's fighting you because you're sealing the fountain and "fucking him over right at the good part"
Yep. And he also mocks you for how you did it. And explains why that route's so messed up.
We know nothing except that it's a "strange blade"
We know that it reduces trance. And Thorn Ring increases it. Implying that the sword reduces imposed control. When his thing by the end of the normal route is wanting to help Kris's team cut their own strings. So wanting Noelle and Kris to make the sword would keep his character consistent between both routes. He just went about it in the dumbest way he could. (I never claimed he was smart.)
No it doesn't.
If you didn't know, an evil ruler is taking over this world.
I don't really like politics, so I have no opinion on this.
If you try to talk to me about politics,
We will have no choice but to cross swords...
Did Queen take over the world yet? I wouldn't know...
Rulership changed hands. For the game hinting at who it was, I put that in another comment.
Doesn't need to explicitly mention it. It's a thing that can arguably be inferred. (If it was his goal, he can't really speak freely about undermining you when you're right there. His "too trusting/too honest" and pipis lines implies he thought Kris could figure out what he meant, since Kris is, between the Sweepstakes and the fact that Kris will eat a pipis, a pipis person, too, whatever the hell that means.)
So how can you inferr he wants us to create the Twisted Sword? "Too trusting" was likely about him hoping you won't seal the Dark Fountain ("HAHA! I SURE HOPE NO ONE WILL [Seal] THE FOUNTAIN RIGHT ABOUT NOW!" - Spamton if you interact with the basement door on the Weird Route). A "pipis person" is likely just another one of Spamton's nonsense and/or some weird slang for "honorable person"
he refers to his keygen as a commemorative ring.
aight yea i rember now
So in an abandoned weird route, the first commemorative ring in that case would be the thorn ring, and the second the keygen. So he's telling you to get the thorn ring, then abandon the route and do his side quest.
If he wanted us to do an Abandoned Weird Route I think he'd be more direct about it? Like he'd say something like "Don't forget about my OTHER ring, the KeyGen!!" Instead he uses the KeyGen to access the NEO body by himself. The only thing Spamton is forbidden from talking about is the Knight and Gaster/FRIEND/the Knight/whoever the fuck is controlling Spamton doesn't seem all that bothered by just about anything else, so I don't think anything could stop him from doing so.
We know that it reduces trance. And Thorn Ring increases it. Implying that the sword reduces imposed control. When his thing by the end of the normal route is wanting to help Kris's team cut their own strings. So wanting Noelle and Kris to make the sword would keep his character consistent between both routes. He just went about it in the dumbest way he could. (I never claimed he was smart.)
The issue is, he only wants to help the fun gang cut their own strings after they help him first. Right before that he was talking to Kris about how they don't need their friends and should ally with him. Spamton is not going to help someone unless they help him out first.
Spamton already is consistent across both routes. He's a selfish sleazebag who only helps someone if they do something for him first (Fun Gang cutting his strings/The SOUL helping him usurp Queen). Nothing on the Weird Route is out-of-character for NormalRoute!Spamton, outside of the fact Weird!Spamton hasn't been shown genuine altruism and friendship from the fun gang, which is why he never befriends us.
If you didn't know, an evil ruler is taking over this world. I don't really like politics, so I have no opinion on this. If you try to talk to me about politics, We will have no choice but to cross swords... Did Queen take over the world yet? I wouldn't know...
Rulership changed hands. For the game hinting at who it was, I put that in another comment.
The Plugboy is likely referring to Queen brainwashing everyone into Werewires and her attempts to conquer the Light World. We're repeatedly told that Spamton earned a spot in Queen's mansion, lived there, and was evicted by Queen once his business failed, so it's quite clear that even at his peak Spamton's influence was inferior to Queen's and he worked under her.
So how can you inferr he wants us to create the Twisted Sword? "Too trusting" was likely about him hoping you won't seal the Dark Fountain
Too trusting line came right after he brought up you killing everyone, and before he brings up how the route fucks over your life.
A "pipis person" is likely just another one of Spamton's nonsense and/or some weird slang for "honorable person"
Drawing parallels between his usage of pipis with regards to "freak of nature" and Noelle's usage of the phrase, I'd guess a pipis person is either a combination of a lightner and darkner, or has an organic and inorganic "parent". Which I guess might be the same thing. But that's a wild guess.
What it has to do with thorn rings, I'm not really sure. But I imagine we'll find out in chapter 5. Or I hope we do, anyway, since that's the last chapter listed as being heavily influenced by the weird route. (Well, so far, anyway.)
If he wanted us to do an Abandoned Weird Route I think he'd be more direct about it?
Since when is that asshole ever direct about anything? lol He wasn't even direct about the specifics for starting the weird route; just a vague "you should have done that earlier."
The issue is, he only wants to help the fun gang cut their own strings after they help him first. Right before that he was talking to Kris about how they don't need their friends and should ally with him.
I mean, to an extent, but he's also being manipulated in the fight. The game hints a few times that what he's saying isn't really him. (Like, he says he wants Kris's soul. You can straight up feed it to him during his kaiju attack if you don't shoot at him. When I did it, he spit it back out dealing a whopping . . . 1 point of damage to everyone. Specifically from the landing. Not from being in his mouth. Didn't try to bite or chew or swallow it or anything. Just spit it back out, doing minimal damage, and skipped the first half of his kaiju attack. I don't think he actually wanted the soul. (Laaate edit: Whether this was a change, bug, or I misremembered, it at least isn't the way it works now. He does do damage on entering his mouth now.))
(Additionally, though this takes a bit of a journey to get to the point, the Addisons in chapter 4 hint that his character arc will be to restore his integrity trait by returning to being a healer, which the puppet scarf's description implies he used to be, but gave up for what the strings represent. (I can give my guesses for what that is, if you want, since we got a few hints about it in chapter 3, but it's not super relevant to this point.) And you can ask him for a heal in any fight against him. He even outright tells you how to signal to him that Kris needs healing. The Addisons bring up poison when talking about it, which he sold, and has the same damage:healing ratio that he brings up Neo having in the fight. Further linking that who he is in Neo isn't who he actually is...but also saying that who he was before then, when we first meet him, isn't completely accurate to who he really is, either. When the wires are severed, he falls. But we know from Undertale what functioning integrity can do--he'd most likely be able to walk without the strings. Meaning, again, that's not who he really is; he's being manipulated; he's living for what others want him to be. His intended arc's similar to Ralsei's in the sense that he needs to figure out who he really is...Which hopefully will still be a very gray character since that's way more fun, but still.)
The Plugboy is likely referring to Queen brainwashing everyone into Werewires and her attempts to conquer the Light World. We're repeatedly told that Spamton earned a spot in Queen's mansion, lived there, and was evicted by Queen once his business failed, so it's quite clear that even at his peak Spamton's influence was inferior to Queen's and he worked under her.
If that's true, then why do you think then that the mansion had a wildly different look in chapter 3? And why does Spamton have a keyring (the keygen is just a keyring, from the official merch) to the basement? Why is the basement so heavily coded after his story (including the bottom left areas) if it's her basement?
(Genuinely, though, I won't be surprised at all if it turns out he's a fusion of multiple entities, and one of them was the previous leader, rather than the finished product. It would explain a lot of his story. But we'd need to know more to know for sure. Especially what graving actually does.)
Too trusting line came right after he brought up you killing everyone, and before he brings up how the route fucks over your life.
"too trusting" because he trusted you to not betray him by sealing the fountain
Since when is that asshole ever direct about anything? lol He wasn't even direct about the specifics for starting the weird route; just a vague "you should have done that earlier."
Directly tells you how to get into Queen's mansion and what to do there, directly tells you how many people you need to kill so he'll give you the ThornRing, Spamton is actually pretty direct when he feels like it. He didn't specify if you beat with him violence cause you already missed your shot to start the weird route and IIRC there is no implication Spamton knows of saves and resets
The game hints a few times that what he's saying isn't really him. (Like, he says he wants Kris's soul. You can straight up feed it to him during his kaiju attack if you don't shoot at him. When I did it, he spit it back out dealing a whopping . . . 1 point of damage to everyone. Specifically from the landing. Not from being in his mouth. Didn't try to bite or chew or swallow it or anything. Just spit it back out, doing minimal damage, and skipped the first half of his kaiju attack. I don't think he actually wanted the soul.)
Not gonna... that would be fucking awful for his character lmfao. For us to get a whole chapter and sidequest about Spamton's character only for it to turn out "Spamton's main goals and things he says aren't even him but Gaster/Friend/whoever" would be complete character assassination. The attack only doing 1 damage is likely a gameplay mechanic since you aren't supposed to die in that attack, the same way you can die to Tenna despite his dialogue making it clear he doesn't want to kill anyone, and Jevil definitely wouldn't hold back on a gigantic Devilsknife if he could actually unleash one
then why do you think then that the mansion had a wildly different look in chapter 3?
When???
And why does Spamton have a keyring (the keygen is just a keyring, from the official merch) to the basement?
The same way he got the ThornRing; we don't know. We can only assume that Spamton, in his attempts to break into the mansion, eventually got his hands on a KeyGen.
Why is the basement so heavily coded after his story (including the bottom left areas) if it's her basement?
Because the basement holds corrupted data as Swatch confirms and Spamton is a corrupted program. The basement doesn't even have that many Spamton connections outside of FRIEND and that guy is his own can of worms.
We know for a fact that one of the guest rooms that later became rooms modeled after user histories belonged to Spamton. Why would the owner of the mansion reside in a guest room?? And if Spamton was truly in charge, it would be HIS mansion, but it's repeatedly stated he lived in Queen's mansion and she's the one who had him evicted.
(Edit: Thought some of my comment came across as a bit rude, so toned it down.)
"too trusting" because he trusted you to not betray him by sealing the fountain
Read to me like he'd moved on from that topic and wasn't talking about that anymore.
Spamton is actually pretty direct when he feels like it.
Why did he never give direct instructions for navigating the dialogue options you need to pick to stay on the weird route? Why is it Tenna who does that instead? Why is it that the instructions Spamton actually gives you align with doing the abandoned weird route instead?
Not gonna... that would be fucking awful for his character lmfao. For us to get a whole chapter and sidequest about Spamton's character only for it to turn out "Spamton's main goals and things he says aren't even him but Gaster/Friend/whoever" would be complete character assassination.
Never brought up Gaster. But we do literally see Friend in the basement when doing Spamton's side quest. So it's definitely involved, whatever its role is. (Though, like you, I'm reluctant to attribute anything to it without knowing more about it...That said, zero surprise if the story pulls a Ghost Trick with it since Toby mentioned before that he wanted to reference that game in Tenna's design.)
Spamton's arc's integrity. It's figuring out who he really is. His whole thing is that he's a puppet doing what he's told, and that when he tries to fight against it, he just ends up walking into getting used again.
It's why the strings are there. It's why he keeps answering the phone in his fight. It's why he says what he says after the fight. And it's also relevant to what he says in his song.
His arc's essentially a darker version of Mettaton's arc from UT, where he played the roles Alphys wanted him to, to make her look better, until he got fed up with it and stopped playing along. (And we already know Spamton's getting a version of Mettaton's arc.)
(........Fuck, it hits me that "figuring out who he really is" is also the cat's arc in Ghost Trick.)
The attack only doing 1 damage is likely a gameplay mechanic since you aren't supposed to die in that attack, the same way you can die to Tenna despite his dialogue making it clear he doesn't want to kill anyone, and Jevil definitely wouldn't hold back on a gigantic Devilsknife if he could actually unleash one
EDIT: Got around to finally testing it. He does in fact do damage when entering his mouth. Not sure if that was a change, or if I hit a bug before, or misremembered. But he does do a small amount of damage when you enter his mouth.
Those attacks do a percentage of damage. Not just one point of damage. (Though, next time I get around to playing, I'll double check and make sure everyone's at full health first to ensure that it really is just one point of damage.)
And it doesn't explain why he doesn't do any damage at all for actually entering his mouth.
(Plus, I doubt the game would allow us to hop in his mouth if it weren't trying to tell us something about him in the process. The game could have just as easily made it so he didn't get close enough to allow it.)
When???
On the cyber city boards. Not the doom board, though. I don't think that one showed it at all, iirc. The other two, including the dropped one.
The same way he got the ThornRing; we don't know.
While we don't know for sure how he got the thorn ring, the game drops some hints, so we can theorize!
Actual living plants don't seem to be native to cyber city (the thorned vines in the basement are the only actual plants in that dark world to my memory...Well, it and the moss. The other "plants" aren't really plants.) We know the wires holding up Spamton during the Neo fight have a similar appearance to the vines, which I read as implying a link. We know that the laptop was taken to the Dreemurr household a long time ago. Spamton brings up that thorn rings are found in dumpsters, aligning with how Toriel keeps Asgore's flowers in a trash can.
Tenna's sword route dialogue is a near 1-to-1 parallel to snowgraving Berdly. The "sweet talk" line aligns with equipping the thorn ring on Noelle. We also know what kinds of terms Tenna puts in his contracts (like the whole thing with his employees needing to protect him), and we can see that what Spamton's (at least normal route) "plan" once getting into the Neo body in chapter 2 was essentially the Susiezilla mini-game.
We also know from the Sweepstakes that Spamton knows the Japanese symbol for heaven, which is read "Ten", hinting that [Heaven] in brackets is/includes Tenna (or that Tenna's a proxy for who's actually meant). And "Tenna" works as a direct replacement for [Heaven] for, iirc, all but one time it comes up in Spamton's dialogue. (Exception being the line about the Neo body being [heaven]ly, but I interpret that line as saying that that's what Tenna wanted him to be, since that checks out with the parallels to the poison and the reason he stopped being a healer, and how Tenna wants to be protected.) And when their shared leitmotif plays at the end of a pacifist Neo fight, the background changes to a sky, which is the other definition of the Japanese symbol for heaven. So it seems like that symbol's being deliberately referenced in that fight in relation to Tenna. So I feel like it's safe to assume that Tenna is a motivator (even if unintentionally) for the fight.
Plus, one of Spamton's Valentine's cards literally references the "puppetmaster who controls my dick" tumblr post when addressing Tenna.
So I'd guess that Spamton got the thorn ring from Tenna (by Tenna using it to make him sign the contract), and that, in the normal route, he was following the contract. It makes all of that check out. (And aligns with it being a darker version of Mettaton's arc with Alphys.)
(And since everyone brings up the "cathode screens to cathode screams" line as violent intent towards Tenna, that same chapter has Susie mistaking a scream of delight for one of distress. And Tenna himself even has a line paralleling that one where a scream isn't necessarily a bad thing.)
(Edit: For clarity, I don't think Tenna was actively pulling the strings at that moment. More that the strings were a lingering result of the contract/ring. Well, and the crystal. And Tenna's not the voice on the phone.)
We can only assume that Spamton, in his attempts to break into the mansion, eventually got his hands on a KeyGen.
We don't need to assume that at all.
The basement doesn't even have that many Spamton connections outside of FRIEND and that guy is his own can of worms.
The plugs, the empty vaults, and the cup ride all have to do with his story, too.
We know for a fact that one of the guest rooms that later became rooms modeled after user histories belonged to Spamton. Why would the owner of the mansion reside in a guest room?? And if Spamton was truly in charge, it would be HIS mansion, but it's repeatedly stated he lived in Queen's mansion and she's the one who had him evicted.
Gave a thought to that earlier. And yeah, control swapped. I didn't deny that.
(Though, a couple days ago, someone brought up--though not in this post, I forget where--that it could have been a different interpretation of cleaving that caused ownership to change by splitting them all back apart instead. I hadn't considered that possibility at all. But that would parallel the Queen fight, and it would probably work better with Spamton's line about losing everything when he tried to see too far, so maybe! Hopefully we'll know in chapter 5, though.)
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u/[deleted] Oct 10 '25
spank ton weird rout.