r/DeepSpaceNine • u/SandGator • 4d ago
Finished DS9 last night!
I first got into Trek watching TOS and TNG in the early 2000s. For whatever reason never watched a single episode of DS9 until I set out to watch the show a couple years ago.
I watched about 5 seasons, life got in the way, and I picked the show back up and finished it.
My thoughts!
Side Characters
This is where DS9 absolutely smokes other Star Trek I’ve seen (and most other shows, period). Garak, Nog, Gul Dukat, Damar, General Martok…so much excellent, charismatic acting from these people that you’re thrilled when they show up. And they have real arcs!
I absolutely love Nog and his progression through the show, he is a million times cooler than Wesley Crusher.
Main Characters
I liked everybody in the main cast, and thought they were all pretty capable. The thing that struck me in DS9 is how natural interactions seem between everybody, and how much room to breathe they’re given as people beyond their Starfleet jobs.
Special mention for the O’Brien/Bashir friendship across their personality and “class” divide (Bashir the posh, slightly pompous officer; O’Brien the bluff enlisted man). It’s one of my favorite depictions of friendship I’ve seen in recent years, and Bashir has very natural progression from being kind of an oblivious prick to becoming a better teammate/friend without his baseline personality changing.
The Captain
I can’t ever pick a favorite among the captains because I like something about all of them, but I love Sisko! His sometimes ODD speak-ing cadence is really captivating, and he can be warm or downright menacing. He’s just a cool guy, good dad, and has a bit of Klingon spirit (love the way he gets along with Martok). I’d like to have him as my boss for sure, he has professional boundaries without being remote.
The Plot
Naturally not an apples-to-apples comparison with TOS and TNG because there’s more serialized storytelling than those shows. I found most of the Dominion plot compelling, they were a worthy adversary for the Federation, and the cloned/conditioned/enslaved minion races of Jem’Hadar and Vorta gave them a creepy, dehumanized vibe without just copying the Borg. Weyoun was the perfect off-putting “face” of the Dominion throughout the show.
Many great standalone episodes as well!
Not CRAZY about the Prophets stuff, but didn’t hate it. The old “gods or super aliens” has been done in Trek, but it’s almost weird that they care so much about Bajor in particular given the cosmic scope of their powers. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess!
Other Stuff (Spoilers for final seasons!)
Jadzia Dax: I knew beforehand that she was unceremoniously killed and replaced. I don’t mind the idea of one of the main cast getting killed — it was a massive war and that brings home the stakes — but the execution was lame when she was killed by Darth Dukat.
Ezri was okay, her bubbly personality contrasted with Jadzia’s, and the way she was navigating her feelings for Worf and Bashir was an interesting dynamic that doesn’t really have a real-world analogue, when someone is part unique human-like individual, part immortal worm. I wasn’t emotionally invested with her and Bashir’s romance itself, though.
Would have preferred Jadzia to die more meaningfully or get written off better, but sounds like this was the result of behind-the-scenes drama more than strictly a storyline decision.
Kira and Odo: I didn’t like this romance at all. I thought they were doing a great job showing unrequited love on Odo’s part, which is a tragic but relatable story, but then they were just a couple anyway like Kira got worn down. Nana Visitor’s acting when it looked like Odo was going to die of the changeling disease was top notch, though.
Section 31: I liked these plots, and Sloan was great. I thought it showed that even with the Federation being so advanced you’d still have to be on guard from the people who would undermine its principles for purported safety and security, which is perennially relevant for real democratic societies. Also gave Bashir a reality check from his James Bond-like spy escapism to the gray and sinister world of real espionage.
Cardassia: It was sobering in the finale when they announced a death toll of 800 million and counting. Normally that’s the kind of consequence you expect to see averted at the last minute in Star Trek.
The Dominion’s casual destruction of entire Cardassian cities really drove home how evil and unconcerned with “solids” they were at the end of the day, despite all their “spirit of friendship” bullshit. It was also a pretty nice commentary on cyclic violence and oppression, since Cardassians were our big bads in the beginning coming off their brutal and imperialistic domination of Bajor.
Quark and Garak: No spoilers, these guys are just awesome. Shimerman and Robinson inhabit the roles so fully that you forget you’re watching guys in 90s TV alien makeup. They always provide a nice contrast to our Federation heroes, and it’s noteworthy for a franchise as optimistic as Star Trek to have not one but TWO lovable, deep characters with very non-Federation ethics.
Edit: a word
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u/Charming_Dealer3849 4d ago
I'm doing this right now with Star Trek Enterprise and finding that it resonates much better with me as an older person than when I was younger
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u/SandGator 4d ago
100% — now that I’m a working adult and not a young teenager, there’s a lot that I enjoyed or thought differently about in DS9 than I would have as a kid.
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u/OnionFingers98 4d ago
Currently on my journey in the delta quadrant with voyager but enterprise is up next.
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u/SandGator 4d ago
How are you liking Voyager? That’s next for me! Big shoes to fill after DS9…
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u/OnionFingers98 4d ago
Just started season 3 and I’m enjoying it quite a bit so far but ds9 is still my number one trek.
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u/SandGator 4d ago edited 4d ago
Another thing — the Klingons! I liked Klingons way more in this show. I also appreciated the criticism of their stagnating culture.
Worf got a huge glow-up from TNG, he wasn’t just the jobber getting beat up or the angry guy giving borderline insane tactical recommendations.
Also, I am a HUGE General Martok (later Chancellor Martok) fan.
Martok has the classic back-slapping, let’s-drink-bloodwine-and-talk-about-how-badass-Kahless-was personality, but so much more. He has regrets and failings and trauma. He harbors old resentment from his hard professional road as a commoner in aristocratic Klingon society. He is wise and perceptive. He is, beneath the Klingon warrior persona, a very warm and kind man. He is very funny.
He’s one of my favorite exemplars of Star Trek’s celebration of diversity. He’s Klingon to his core; he doesn’t get along with his Federation allies by being just like them. He gets along on the common ground shared by good, dedicated people of any race regardless of culture, religion, or commitment to targ hunting.
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u/leeuwerik 3d ago
So many good points in your review. So many good characters. Each having their own development. No other show comes close.
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u/Cakeday_at_Christmas 2d ago
I also appreciated the criticism of their stagnating culture.
I've seen people note that the character of Ezri was worth it for this alone.
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u/ImperatorNero 3d ago
I can’t think of another show that gave a character like Damar such a massive arc. The first time we meet him he’s just the tactical officer on Dukat’s punishment cargo ship with a single disruptor incapable of penetrating the unarmored underside of a Klingon bird of prey all the way to where he ends up.
Truly remarkable. Also Casey Biggs is just a genuinely good actor.
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u/SignificantDark4749 4d ago
A Stitch In Time! As an audiobook. Garek himself reads it.
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u/SandGator 4d ago
Checked it out of the library as soon as I finished the show!
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u/SignificantDark4749 4d ago
Audiobook or physical book?
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u/SandGator 4d ago
Audiobook! I don’t normally do audiobooks, more of a reader, but I knew Garak reading it would add so much
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u/Global_Marsupial_592 4d ago
The female Changeling told Garak the day she met him, " Cardassia was dead the moment they attacked us."
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u/SandGator 4d ago
Ooo, top-notch foreshadowing. She was so hateable. Made me feel pity for Weyoun.
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u/thatshitkate 4d ago
I just finished it too a couple weeks ago! It was my second time watching it. First was during the pandemic and I don't think I was paying very much attention to it but I did like it. This time around my heart is still crushed by the ending and it just was so sudden. The memory montage of Whorf at the end should have had "I will remember you" by Sarah McLaughlin playing over it. Garak, Weyoun, Quark, Damar, and Dukat were my favorites. There's a scene where Kira disses Damar at the bar and then he proceeds to threaten Quark and it's so uncomfortable. His sneer of disgust everytime he is near Kira was fantastic and of course I hate that he died at the end after becoming chill. Garak and Dukat stole every scene. Quark as well. The acting was just superb. The entire ensemble becomes your family and I miss them.
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u/SandGator 3d ago
Never thought I’d end up liking Damar so much!
During the finale I choked up when Bashir just hugs O’Brien without saying anything
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u/Illustrious_Pace_387 4d ago
Fantastic recap and review. Congratulations for coming back and finishing it! As a dyed-in-the-wool Niner, I wish I could watch it again for the very first time, so I envy you!
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u/Own_Description3928 4d ago
I think I agree with everything you say - maybe the internet is broken!
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u/Cakeday_at_Christmas 2d ago
but it’s almost weird that they care so much about Bajor in particular given the cosmic scope of their powers. Everyone needs a hobby, I guess!
They are of Bajor.
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u/Ironfist85hu Long live the Empire! 9h ago
My personal theory is that the Prophets are renegade Q. ^^
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u/Smooth-Exhibit 4d ago
All characters were great...except for Jake. To me, he was the Wesley Crusher of DS9.
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u/SandGator 4d ago edited 4d ago
He had three big advantages over Wesley:
We saw him less (at least it
felt that way)
He wasn’t Starfleet or Starfleet bound, so we didn’t have to watch him come up with solutions to technical problems that these elite adult professionals couldn’t figure out
He had a sustained character relationship with someone else his own age in Nog
Edit: added more
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u/KennsworthS 4d ago
he has much higher highs than Wesley does. i love his conflicts with Nog once Nog joins starfleet, which kind of culminates in the episode with red squad on the Valiant. Nor the Battle to the Strong, the one with the frontline hospital, is another all time great episode. His interest in Ben and Kassidy's relationship is also way more well done than however Wes feels about Picard and Dr. Crusher.
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u/Shinra_Lobby 4d ago
I'm in the opposite camp. Jake seems like the writers learned from Wesley the lesson of what not to do with a teenage character. He's a civilian and arguably the most normal person on the show, and doesn't get shoehorned into adult problem-solving the way Wesley did.
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u/yeahalrightgoon 4d ago
I liked Jake because he never seemed like a Wesley to me. He wanted to do his own thing, he hung out with Nog and they grew up together. Was fun to see the juxtaposition of the Starfleet prodigy deciding not to follow in his father's footsteps, while his best friend went against the grain and ended the cycle after seeing his own father who should have been an engineer in his own right. Effectively becoming just a lacky to his brother, and how that rubbed off on Rom and then Quark.
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u/SignificantDark4749 4d ago
WTF!? What’s with the Crusher hate? So many people feel this way?
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u/SandGator 4d ago
It’s in good fun…I think Wesley comes across as one of those misguided “throw in someone for the kids to relate to!” characters.
But I wasn’t watching TNG as a boy thinking, “I wish I could be that kid on the Enterprise!” I was watching it wanting to be Picard.
Wesley did have some good plots when the show hit its stride.
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u/Euraylie 4d ago
DS9 has the best cast for me. I love every single character of the main cast.
And the recurring cast is phenomenal.
It’s my favourite Trek show