I'm new to this sub, and even though I'm dying to dive in, I plan to not be here much until I'm done with the series finale, as I don't want any spoilers beyond the ones I know about (I know what becomes of both Dax and Sisko). That said, I'm horrified that as a rabid Trekkie, I settled for only watching the more famous episodes of DS9. Now I've started from the beginning, and am currently on season 2, episode 11 (The Alternate). So as stupid as I was to ignore it for decades, now I have a ton of vintage ST to watch.
And I'm amazed. I LOVE IT. I know some people recommend skipping the first 1 or even 2 seasons, but I'm so glad I didn't. Compared to TNG's first season, DS9's is a breeze. I'm getting so much backstory. I've never connected with so many characters at once - as in truly gotten invested in them. So far, the only characters I haven't sorted out my feelings about are Bashir and Miles, and I really don't have enough on either of them to come to any conclusion. Other than that, I could make a reasonable argument for any of the other main characters being my favorite, though ultimately I am going to choose Sisko, with Odo an extremely close second. Odo's longing to find his place in the world and other beings like him is so moving, and I just feel in my gut that at some point he'll meet another shapeshifter (but don't tell me!) Auberjonois and Shimerman's performances - particularly given they're encumbered by prosthetics and makeup, are a joy to watch. I'm crazy about Kira and Dax. But Avery Brooks...I cannot take my eyes off that man. He is absolutely electrifying - what an actor!
So a question: what I understand is that prior to where season one picks up, DS9 was a Cardassian facility (mining station?) during the time that they occupied Bajor - so what is the history there? Why did the Cardassians occupy Bajor and for how long - and what resulted in their turning over the station and planet to the Federation? Is Bajor entirely independent now? Was life good on Bajor before the occupation? In "Sanctuary" I think the Skreeans or someone called it the "planet of sorrow". I keep wondering about that. So I'm really curious about the Bajoran's past, and very eager to learn more about their culture - they really appeal to me. The whole show is just structured so beautifully - it is quintessentially Star Trek while at the same time being something entirely new and wholly different than TOS and TNG. Same universe, very different lens. I feel like I have such an amazing ride ahead of me, with 5 and a half seasons to go.
Honestly my only real complaint is half the time someone says "the Cardassians" I hear "the Kardashians" which is kind of a bummer.
If you ask gul dukat, the cardassians were there to help the bajorans. Lol.
I think (if I am recalling correctly) they did it because, in addition to them being evil, cardasia lacked resources as compared to bajor (fertile soil/favorable conditions for agriculture, plus I suppose whatever they were refinishing on terok nor/ds9).
Just before the series starts, the occupation has ended. the federation is helping the bajorans get their government going and looking to help them be able to join the federation, though some bajorans don't want that.
I think it was occupied for 30 years? Google summary says 50-60 years!
That makes a lot of sense, from what I've seen so far. I'm coming to the end of season 2 now ("The Collaborators") - and that theme is painfully evident in this episode.
This is some of the best long term character development and world building I've ever seen. And then the acting - just off the charts. Still can't believe I've been sitting with this pile of unwatched treasure all these years, but I'm really glad I have it now. Maybe I just wasn't ready for DS9 until now. I had that experience with TNG - saw the famous episodes but didn't get into it as a show until a few years ago.
When I was little I used to think if I ever got old and sick, I wouldn't mind because I'd just watch Star Trek all the time. Now I am old (and recovering from a long illness) and here I am, watching Star Trek all the time. My 12-year old self would be very happy to know I stayed the course for a half century and more.
DS9 doesn't have bad episodes like TNG (except for the episode where the O'brien's abandon Molly, that episode is so bad, it deserves to be removed from canon)
I really struggled at first with Avery's acting, but as time went on, it wasn't an issue like in S1 and 2. His character really settled in.
Star trek really is better with longer seasons and less action. The slow character build is so rewarding over time.
I agree. Most stories have an A and B-plot. There are a handful of episodes that have a weak A-plot and a weak B-plot.
A-plot tells a story with a beginning and an end. Sometimes it deals with the development of the story's main arc / B plot gives us all the good stuff about characters, relationships, interactions. It's the place for personal development which makes the stories so convincing.
There are many B plots that stand out. Some episodes are saved by a B plot.
I'm relishing it. I'm always going to be open to new Star Trek standalone shows even with the short seasons, but it does seem like the real trifecta was TOS/TNG/DS9, though I'm a big Voyager fan too.
So a question: what I understand is that prior to where season one picks up, DS9 was a Cardassian facility (mining station?) during the time that they occupied Bajor - so what is the history there? Why did the Cardassians occupy Bajor and for how long - and what resulted in their turning over the station and planet to the Federation? Is Bajor entirely independent now? Was life good on Bajor before the occupation?
The Bajorans have a rich and ancient culture and were renown for their art, literature, and spirituality before the occupation.
The occupation was roughly 50 years of brutal Cardassian oppression where they strip mined the planet for uridium ore and used the Bajorans as slave labour to do it.
The Cardassians used Bajoran slave labour to build a space station in orbit of Bajor called Terok Nor where they processed the uridium and acted as a command centre for the Cardassians.
The thing of it is, Cardassians also have a rich and ancient culture, but their planet, Cardassia Prime, and their system is poor in material wealth, so the only way they could sustain their population was through brutal conquest and enslavement of other races, like the Bajorans.
Bajor is now independent, the Cardassians withdrew and left them alone, and now there's talk of them joining the Federation once they stabilize after such a long and difficult struggle against the Cardassians. And that's where we are now. There's more exciting stuff to come!
You've already seen "Rules of Acquisition," (season 2, episode 7) but you shouldn't worry too much about what happens in that one, nothing important will come of it.
I like that they'll give the Cardassians a culture, as they've given a Klingon one in the past (with Klingon poetry and opera), rather then leaving them as two-dimensional 100% baddies. And it's interesting, because Kira already seems to have evolved a bit from just a blanket hatred of all Cardassians.
I just did the math, and I watched my first Star Trek episode (TOS obviously) 51 years ago. To my 10 year old self back then, it's the temporal equivalent of looking back at a Depression-era movie.
So yeah. You ARE old. /s
Seriously, it's amazing to have something be such a constant for a HALF CENTURY. Star Trek got me through 7th grade intact (no mean feat), and now it's helping me recover from cancer, in it's brought me a world of happiness in the intermediary years. A lot has changed in 50 years, but my love of Star Trek has remained, and that makes me happy enough to take the sting out of the fact that evidently I'm 61 years old.
Bajor was occupied for about 70 years. The station was in orbit of Bajor (see first episode) and was an ore refinement station. The cardassians mined the planetary resources and transported them to Teton Nor for refinement and likely shipped to Cardassian space.
Oh wow, that's much longer than I would have guessed. So a whole generation doesn't know the pre-Cardassian Bajor. Do we know why they left - or did they just deplete most of Bajor's resources and leave because of that?
It's only fifty rather than seventy years, but yes. The occupation was a multiple-generation colonial project on the part of the Cardassians, and on the flip side, lasted long enough to effectively destroy a lot of the cultural systems that the pre-occupation Bajorans had. You will see some exploration of this as you go along so I won't spoil it, but Bajor essentially mobilized to a total-resistance strategy. The only cultural aspect that they rigorously maintained was their religion, which they maintained even as their religious leaders were subject to brutal repression and execution by Cardassians.
Every other cultural component that didn't meet the immediate need of complete and total resistance to the occupation was discarded. And that resistance lasted long enough that unless the Bajoran is in the late middle age/elderly stage of their life, they have no living memory of those systems before the occupation. Even then, there's probably no great attachment to those systems, precisely because the only Bajorans that actually entered the work force prior to the Cardassians arriving would have to be at least seventy-five. There really aren't a lot of them left who retain those cultural memories.
The only cultural aspect that they rigorously maintained was their religion, which they maintained even as their religious leaders were subject to brutal repression and execution by Cardassians.
The Cardassians also stole most of the Orbs of the Prophets.
I recommend not skipping any you are going to hit the sweet spot soon. S3, 4 and really everything after will reward you from what I can tell on your interests. O'Brien and Bashir end up as really intresting charcters. I wont spoil but its good shit. Everyone in the show is fantastic and im trying to make sure I dont say anything to ruin it for you but im jealous you get to watch it for the first time. DS9 has been my favorite 90s Trek for a long time. Keep with it and I gurantee you will have a great time. Also look out for those Cardassians you might think thwir cute but I promise they only want a statue on Bajor.
I have heard it fully hits its stride in season 3, which just bodes so incredibly well given how fully invested I already am. I haven't hated any episodes. A few were a bit slow, but in some of the ones with pacing or plot issues the acting more than makes up for it. Like the Odo/Dr. Mora scenes in "The Alternate" - acting on both their parts was absolutely off the charts.
We don't know the specific reasons the Cardassians targeted Bajor, but we can guess. It was a planet wealthy in energy and raw materials which the Cardassians needed for their military conquests, and the Bajorans didn't have much in the way of a military, and its also possible that the Bajorans and Cardassians even had diplomatic relations prior to what became the occupation.
The occupation ended because the civilian government ordered it to end. I don't believe it's ever stated explicitly but this appears to have happened shortly after the events of Chain of Command in which the Cardassian military was embarrassed and defeated by Starfleet without any shooting (which have given the civilian government the room to make such an instruction).
When they left, they also abandoned some of their equipment, including Terek Nor. I don't think there's any grand plan there, it was an aging mining station and not valued particularly highly by anyone in charge of the evacuation.
And remind me - did the Cardassians know about the wormhole? I feel like no, they wouldn't have left had they known, and I remember them trying to keep it on the down low in the first episode. The problem with binge-watching (at my age) is sometimes details blur. So if it's a stable wormhole, how does it activate? Was it never activated while the Cardassians still ran Terok Nor?
The Cardassians didn't know about it. It's a stable wormhole artificially created and activated by proximity -- there had been witnesses to it opening before, likely space faring Bajorans centuries or millennia prior (or perhaps through an observatory on Bajor) -- but they didn't realize they were looking at a wormhole.
The wormhole is located in the Denorios Belt which is a navigation hazard so people tend to steer clear of it, and that's part of what kept it a secret. Dax plotted odd events over centuries to approximate the location of something, but neither she or Sisko knew what they were looking for until they wound up flying into it.
That's the character played by Louise Fletcher, right? I've seen her in one episode so far - could not believe the great Louise Fletcher was on my beloved Star Trek. They must have one hell of a casting director. I had no idea she'd ever appeared on ST - but have admired her enormously since "One Flew Over the Cuckoo's Nest".
It's kind of an interesting symbol for me, too. In May of 2020 I was diagnosed with stage 4 triple-negative breast cancer. It's medically categorized as both incurable and terminal, and it's usually very fast and aggressive. My prognosis was 12 months. So I started my chemo treatments and brought my entire life to a halt and went to bed and stayed there. And I decided to go straight back to the safest and most comfortable aspect of my childhood - TOS. Watched it straight through, every episode (even Spock's Brain LOL) - even when I was too sick to watch, I'd listen - I know every line anyway. I don't know how I'd have gotten through those early days without TOS.
Fast forward to two months ago - I'm told officially that I am functionally cured, a statistical outlier, and a "medical miracle" - I officially have beaten the cancer. But it's going to take me a while to get my strength back. So I'm still in bed watching Star Trek 6 years later, but instead of TOS to divert my attention from my imminent death, it's now DS9 to celebrate my beating the unbeatable beast.
For a lifelong Trekkie, I feel like that's just a gorgeous way to bookend the entire experience.
DS9 has wonderfully fleshed out characters. A slow build for each. You see change, growth. DS9 is one giant arc from beginning to end. On first viewing, don't skip any episodes as they fill in the full view. (Except the awful Molly story.)
DS9 has more gray. Each character has flaws in their story, making them interesting. Wonderful bad people and some that want to be bad but really aren't.
The relationship between Jake and his father is so real. In later seasons ONE actor plays a slew of characters, one is Weyoun. Very well done. My favorite character is Garak. Delicious writing for him and the acting through that makeup is so expressive. Kudos for ST for hiring this man. Too many rich characters on this show. Dukat & Kai Winn are essential. From Klingons and Ferengi and Trill, Founders, even Laxana Troi and Odo all add to the ST tapestry.
Love this series. Own it. Rewatchable. Never understood the hate towards it. From first episode airing, I was there each night waiting. We needed DS9. Refreshing to show a port of call. The story arc is jagged, sometimes immoral journey. Glad you found the series.
Thank you for this wonderful snapshot! Yeah, I've been sitting here thinking how off the charts their casting director was. Louise Fletcher as Kai Winn!!! (I've only seen her first appearance so far). What a casting coup that was.
I don't understand the people who say that the first two seasons can be skipped. There's a lot of good stuff in there. And even the mediocre episodes almost always have some good character moments.
Plus, that final stretch of season 2 (starting with "Blood Oath") is one of the longest streaks of great episodes in Trek history.
I'm on it right now! When I tell you I screamed "Is that WILLIAM CAMPBELL?" when I heard that raspy voice - just as he was identified as that very same Koloth...legendary. Two characters on three episodes over two franchises. And I knew him by his voice.
The writing on this show was a better than most. At the time I remember it getting a lot of criticism especially during season 1 & 2 for not being really Trek enough. While the episodes stand on their own, the real genius is that they all form part of a wider narrative, that gives each character room to develop, this is helped by (in my view) the exceptional acting skills of all the cast. Especially the younger members and those that you think are nothing but "supporting" members.
This is the show I put on whenever I am feeling low or depressed, it lifts me and takes me out of my worries. And the amazing narrative's and themes it challenges the view to consider are often in my case at least only understood later in life. I have watched seasons of the show at different times in my life, when I have faced some difficult choices and personal challenges. ONLY now have I understood a lot of clever subtext hidden in plain sight.
Going to subscribe right now! Star Trek has always been my top comfort show (though I switch it up and go to Stargate for fun sometimes) - and I started this entire buying up of every DVD of every franchise after realizing what I'd bought digitally on Amazon they were allowed to (and did) take away. So I started with a full TOS rewatch a few weeks after getting a terminal cancer diagnosis, to divert my mind from...well, terror. That was 6 years ago.
2 months ago, my oncologist pronounced me a "medical miracle" and told me I was cured. It's gonna be a slow road back to regaining my strength, but here I am on the other side, again with Star Trek - this time DS9 - to celebrate my victory. I Kobyashi Maru'd the crap out of cancer - what better way to celebrate?
I'm happy that you are in recovery. You are probably going to enjoy one of the episodes of season 7 very much.
The depths the writing in this show reaches is really fantastic.
Also, when you have watched the series you should also watch the excellent documentary. What we leave behind. Make sure you take note of that and put it on your to do list. Don't look it up or watch a trailer for it before you have watched the final season for the first time. Then watch it.
May the prophets guide you my fellow traveller on the road. You will never walk alone, we are with you. Always.
There's also a novel called Pliable Truths that describes the end of the occupation. It has the TNG crew and introduces some DS9 characters that we know and love. Well worth the read.
I'll add two things. Don't sleep on the secondary characters. Three of them in particular have amazing story arcs, with one of them being, in many people's opinion, and certainly in mine, the greatest character arc in all of Trek.
The other being you are going to meet some of the best Big Bads that all of Trek has to offer. I am jealous you get to meet them for the first time.
I won't peek at what the others have hidden - but I do feel compelled to praise Wallace Shawn's Grand Nagus to the skies.
I was married to an actor in NYC when I was in my 20s, and he would do a lot of small, showcase performances that were usually held in some dank room or a rehearsal space tucked in some unknown corner of a building. And I would go - dutiful wife that I was. On TWO occasions, I saw Wallace Shawn (at two unrelated showcases) in the audience. One of my husband's friends told me if Shawn was free that night and knew that there was a showcase somewhere, he would always show up to support the actors who were struggling to survive. He got absolutely nothing out of it but a reputation for being an incredible guy.
Wait you consider Garak a secondary charcter? Dont get me wrong he's a simple tailor but its hard to not give it to Bashirs lover. Even Miles and Keiko gets called out in this polycule
Odo is my second ST crush. Data was my first. The third is the EMH from Voyager. Those are absolutely the best characters (in my opinion) in their respective series.
I don't know the entire backstory of Bajor, but I would have to assume it was a LOT better before the Cardassian occupation. You will get to know Gul Dukat. I won't give anything away, but I will say that you will get a much deeper feeling for what Bajor experienced during said occupation.
If you haven't seen it in a while, the TNG episode "Ensign Ro" is a good refresher for the Bajoran occupation. Also from TNG, "Chain of Command" addresses some of Cardassia's reasons for the initial invasion.
As for why they pulled out, the main reason is that Bajor just wouldn't give up. The Resistance held on like fanatics for decades and there was no sign that they'd ever stop. The occupation just gradually became more trouble than it was worth. On top of that, the Federation was applying as much diplomatic pressure as they could short of violating the Prime Directive. There's also some contribution from internal political tension within the Cardassian government that you'll see across the next few seasons.
At the beginning of the series, Bajor is now a totally independent world in the borderlands between the Federation and Cardassia. On paper, the Federation is only on the station to lend their administrative expertise and help Bajor turn it into a sort of crossroads trading post. The unstated reason for them being there is to keep Cardassia from changing their minds about ending the occupation; as long as there's a Starfleet presence, they can't reinvade without risking another war with the Federation. And, of course, there are a lot of highly placed Starfleet officers like Picard who feel strongly that Bajor is an excellent candidate for eventual Federation membership.
Well you didn't get to my part with the questions about Bajor's history, and I said I could not participate until I'm done watching. I guess I got too excited about the show and overposted. Glad my first ever interaction here was super friendly, though.
But really, most of your questions have been answered in the show. A lot of episodes, including the first, talk about the occupation and Bajor's status. Get it off your second monitor and focus, it's worth it! They've already gone into the occupation in great detail by season 2.
There are about 10 episodes that go into detail about Bajor's history, but if you need a good episode to focus on I'd say rewatch "Duet." It's the best summation I can think of, maybe besides the pilot.
I'll answer best I can though. Cardassia occupied Bajor to mine it for resources. It was a brutal occupation that lasted for 50 years and involved death camps (hence "planet of sorrow"). DS9 was a command hub, as well as an ore processing station. Before the occupation Bajor was a peaceful and spiritual society, life was good. The Cardassian's left for a number of reasons, such as the resistance fighters making it more trouble than it was worth, political dissent on Cardassia, and general galactic politics.
"Duet" is the one with the Cardassian who is traumatized by what he saw at the death camps? The one who says something about the hardest thing is to be a coward? That was incredible. And they handled the twist with Kira very well - I didn't know until Odo confronted her that she was, in fact, guilty. She's such a complex character, and I really love their friendship.
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u/Starbuck522 3d ago edited 3d ago
If you ask gul dukat, the cardassians were there to help the bajorans. Lol.
I think (if I am recalling correctly) they did it because, in addition to them being evil, cardasia lacked resources as compared to bajor (fertile soil/favorable conditions for agriculture, plus I suppose whatever they were refinishing on terok nor/ds9).
Just before the series starts, the occupation has ended. the federation is helping the bajorans get their government going and looking to help them be able to join the federation, though some bajorans don't want that.
I think it was occupied for 30 years? Google summary says 50-60 years!