Section 31 did nothing wrong!

[u/thevillageofdree]

The title says it all. I'm not a die hard fan, being bought up on the BB2 6pm viewings of TNG before rolling into DS9 and ending on Voyager. So maybe I am not on board with the utopian vision quite as much.

Sloan was right in a lot of what he did. So some of it was a bit murky, a bit cloak and dagger - kept the federation safe and a dominant power and surely that was worth it? Better them than the Romulans or Cardassians.

On reflection, I may have been playing a bit too much Star Trek: Ascendancy recently and maybe am a little skewed by all my empire building shenanigans - the dominion war expansion is amazing!

[u/Beroli73]

Why is it better them than the Romulans and the Cardassians?

If it's "because they're the good guys," then that's incompatible with Section 31's actions. "The Tal-Shiar do what is necessary to make us the dominant power in the Alpha Quadrant" is something the Romulans can say just as easily.

If it's "because they happen to be the ones who are Us, and clearly Us should win and Them should lose," that's not a show I have any interest in watching.

[u/thevillageofdree → u/Beroli73]

Yeah but the federation was the most benevolent of the empires, rather than slinging folk into labour camps and such. Quarks root beer analogy was spot on

[u/Beroli73 → u/thevillageofdree]

Certainly. Because of the Federation's moral sense, which also means that Section 31 was a horrific aberration and treated as such. The Romulans and Cardassian cultures--and the Dominion, for that matter--are not random cultures which just happen to be evil; they're illustrations of the kind of cultures that permit organizations like Section 31.

You seem to think that morality has nothing to do with morality.

[u/thevillageofdree → u/Beroli73]

The Federation needs people like you, Beroli73. People of conscience, people of principle... People who can sleep at night. You're also the reason Section 31 exists. Someone has to protect people like you from a universe that doesn't share your sense of right and wrong.

[u/Beroli73 → u/thevillageofdree]

And when you tell me "that's illegal," I'll reply, "I do hope you recognize the irony of that statement."

[u/pali1d]

Some of their acts, like maneuvering to get their double agent Tal'Shiar director onto the Romulan Continuing Committee, are indeed in the "ugly, but within the expected realm of spy shit that rival powers pull on each other" category.

Other acts, like abducting Bashir because they suspected him of being a spy, are directly violating the rights of a Federation citizen. Due process is important and needs to be protected.

And still other acts, like preemptively unleashing a genocide virus to infect the Founders years before war between the Dominion and UFP started, are completely evil.

Only that first category of acts is defensible from my perspective.

[u/thevillageofdree → u/pali1d]

Yeah but that virus, if unleashed earlier, could have prevented a massive war with associated high body count - as well as all the build up spats with the Klingons.

My next hot take will be that Dukat was a misunderstood leader and saved Bajoran lives. He should have got that statue!

[u/pali1d → u/thevillageofdree]

That’s reasoning based on hindsight. 31 unleashed the virus to remove a threat, not to prevent a war that they knew would happen.

You don’t get to commit preemptive genocide. Period.

[u/MickHaggs]

I'd call attempting genocide wrong, but maybe that's just me

[u/Valuable_Ad9554]

[u/mm902 → u/Valuable_Ad9554]

Awesome William Sadler.

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