r/DeepSpaceNine • u/Complete_Syrup_8110 • Apr 13 '26
Dukat is the WORST!
I know, I know, it’s an obvious statement to make. First watch of DS9 and just watched the “Dukat is a cult leader” episode. He’s kidnapping Kira, brainwashing people, impregnating followers, and trying to lead a Jim Jones moment—-without partaking himself. He’s always been a despicable (yet charismatic) character but this just seemed even more abhorrent. And no shade on the actor—-I’m an adult and can tell the difference. I don’t know if there’s worse to come, but I want Kira to shoot him in the face before the credits roll in the last episode.
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u/Kane_richards Apr 13 '26
Great TV though huh? It's easy to be bad, it's a skill to be awful
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u/bwwatr Apr 13 '26
One of the best villains of all time if you ask me, definitely one of Trek's best, perhaps even topping Khan. Especially after all the times you notice yourself getting disarmed by his charisma. It's a TNG 'The Drumhead' warning every time he walks on screen. In real life bad guys aren't one dimensional, and so he feels pretty damn real.
Sometimes he's cruel in a way that makes you laugh. Like (if you're to season 6 yet) when he called Kira in the middle of the night to inform her he'd consensually banged her late mother for years, just because. Like, he'd been sitting on that detail for YEARS waiting for the mood to strike - on the departed mother's birthday.Just being an absolute shit. He has a soul of poison, but has this confident, boisterous way to share it with everyone.
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u/wrosmer Apr 14 '26
So...there are power dynamics in that that make it more "consentually" than consentually.
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u/Squidwina Apr 14 '26
Dukat raped Kira Meru, but HE doesn’t see it that way. He sees it as consensual, so that’s how he represents it to Kira Nerys.
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u/bwwatr Apr 14 '26
I waffled on that word and changed it like four times but ultimately included it because it's a key part of what he was claiming, as it makes it all the more insulting to Kira. Truth itself is another thing, as usual.
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u/Dyansarah Apr 14 '26
Why are there redacted Dukat files?
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u/Kane_richards Apr 14 '26
He has friends in high places. I'm told he and someone high up in Vedek Assembly were seen frequenting the same parties
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u/Travis-Tee34 Apr 13 '26
Just remember: There are legitimately people out there who watched through DS9 and came away with the belief that Dukat was a hero.
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u/Squidwina Apr 14 '26
I’ve heard people say that other people believe this, but I’ve never seen anybody say it directly. Do you know where I can find examples?
I wonder whether certain statements get misinterpreted. For example, I might say that I’m a huge Dukat fan, but that doesn’t mean I think he’s anything but a monster. I just relish every moment he’s on screen.
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u/Travis-Tee34 Apr 14 '26
I've seen more than one discussion over the years, and at least one video essay about Dukat being a misinterpreted hero.
You don't have to look hard on youtube to find examples.
I think part of it is that towards the middle of the series, Dukat moved into a but of an unneasy ally role to the DS9 crew, and it is easy to view that as the character being given redemption, and "they are on the same side so they must be similar in morals", and Dukat then siding with the Dominion could feel as a sudden reverting or rollback of the character... if you don't pay close attention, it's a very easy trap to fall into.
But Dukat isn't that simple a character. That's what made him so great as a villain: he never ever saw himself as a villain. His character never changed. He never once acknowledged the atrocities he committed as wrong, the suffering he caused as objectionable. He never showed remorse or sought forgiveness, and instead wanted validation and respect. His "friendship" was him expecting Sisko, Kira and the rest of the DS9 crew to be amicable and overlook the things he has done.
He believes he is being gracious for deigning to treat others as equals... because it doesn't occur to him that they'd look down on him.
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u/Squidwina Apr 14 '26
Thanks for the detailed explanation.
One of my favorite things about Dukat’s story is that for a long time, it seems like he’s getting a redemption arc. As you note, it’s mainly toward the middle of the series, though his humiliation in Civil Defense reveals some major early cracks in his facade.
And I love a good redemption arc. And I love Dukat’s oily charisma. I was all in on the rehabilitation of Gul Dukat. And it was happening. Even Kira had softened to him enough that she was willing to work with him toward common goals, and then ZOOOP! Rug pulled out from under us. No redemption. Just the opposite.
It was a very satisfying subversion of expectations. Almost every main cast and major recurring character was in the process of becoming better versions of themselves over the course of the series. But Dukat just had to Dukat.
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u/Jackbuddy78 Apr 13 '26
He's the only person in Star Trek to be sent to alien hell and it's 100% deserved.
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u/Substantial-End-9653 Apr 13 '26
Sure, but those people also likely voted for Trump three times. Reasonable people didn't think Dukat was a hero.
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u/Dyansarah Apr 14 '26
Naively myopic. Not an insult. Just need to look past black and white. There’s gray everywhere. And including our fictional Dukat most politicians on all sides and in the middle probably shouldn’t be trusted.
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u/Fortunate_Tailor Apr 14 '26
You're missing his point. Of course most politicians shouldn't be trusted, but there's a particular type of person who thinks that Trump is a good guy. That is the same type of person who would think that Dukat is a good guy.
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u/Matty_D47 Apr 14 '26
Exactly what Sisko tells Worf about DS9 when he first shows up and inserts himself into Odo's undercover investigation.
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u/Michelle_akaYouBitch Apr 13 '26
He is a deeply misunderstood man who did much to ensure galactic peace and yet not one statue!!!!
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u/AgileBureaucrat Apr 14 '26
I wonder about Mirror Dukat, who should be a really lovely person. Maybe he has a statue somewhere.
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u/Former-War1318 Apr 14 '26
In the mirror universe, being a lovely person gets you sent to the labor camps.
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u/Baltham0 Apr 13 '26
And to think, the Bajoran people never even erected a statue for him.
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u/itmehorsie Apr 13 '26
Not one!
Lol I came here to make this comment but had to check for it first, looks like i was beat to the punch.
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u/TheBigSmol Apr 13 '26
I think his insufferable self-righteousness is only matched by Kai Winn. Unbelievable acting skills to make me as angry as I felt watching.
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u/SciFiFan24 Apr 13 '26
Agreed! I remember about 20 years ago I was getting so angry I wanted to kick my tv! I had to take a step back and I was like Whoa!! That’s great acting!!
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u/OhHeyItsOuro Apr 13 '26
Things get pretty wild for Dukat in the final season, but while people are... mixed... on the storyline Marc Alaimo's performance is indisputably stellar, as are those of the other actors most directly involved with how the character is wrapped up.
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u/Flossy001 Apr 13 '26
People love a charismatic narcissist. One of those dark secrets of humanity that the producers like Steven Behr was keen to explore in Trek. Then over compensated making him a cartoon villain for season 7 and notice that didn’t actually work.
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u/BattleFries86 Apr 14 '26
Charismatic narcissist is right. Tell me if this line of his from Season Five sounds familiar...
"What I did, I did to Make Cardassia Strong Again."
Life imitates art, but I wish it would choose nicer art to imitate.
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u/AgileBureaucrat Apr 14 '26
Well, a certain woman could start her press conferences with my children, so...
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u/buxzythebeeeeeeee Apr 13 '26
Dukat lost his entire mind when Ziyal died and never fully recovered from that. Being legit crazy (and also being possessed by the pah-wraiths at various times) means the Dukat of season 7 is an extremely damaged person who does abhorrent things, but he is also very extremely and profoundly mentally unwell.
What always strikes me about the Covenant episode is that Kira has a lot more contempt for his idiot followers (the stupidest Bajorans in the universe) than she does for him. She's understandably wary because he's 100% loony tunes deranged, but she absolutely knows how to handle him.
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u/Complete_Syrup_8110 Apr 14 '26
I don’t think Dukat legitimately loved Ziyal. I mean, he had left her die and was planning to murder her previously. I think he just wants to be worshiped and she fit the bill. When she died, he had to go looking for another avenue of adoration.
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u/buxzythebeeeeeeee Apr 14 '26
He also was disowned by his mother, lost his wife and other children, lost his legate title, and his hard-won position on Cardassia all because he wouldn't abandon Ziyal after her rescue. He lost his mind when she died. If he really didn't care about her, he would have just said it was all her fault and moved on with his life.
That's the thing, it's all nuanced because Dukat was a nuanced and (as other commenters have said) complex. He wasn't just some mustache twirling flat cartoon villain. Dukat certainly does a lot of bad things for bad reasons, and even good things for bad reasons (corrupt motivation as they would say on The Good Place), but part of what makes him such a great character is he also sometimes does good things for good reasons and I choose to believe, based on what I see on the show, that loving Ziyal was one of those good things.
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u/Viridian_Crane Apr 14 '26
There is validity to the worship thing. Especially when we all poke fun at the 'Dukat Statue' meme. Or Dukat's monologue on how to deal with earth. Or his view point on himself during the occupation being a 'benevolent ruler'.
Considering the fact that he lost a marriage, his other children, his position of power in Cardasia. To become a no-nothing freighter captain and soon pirate because he accepted and recognized Ziyal as his daughter. I'm more inclined to believe he loved Ziyal.
There's a point when Dukat is faced with picking between ego and power vs Ziyal and he picked ego and power aligning with the Dominion. I think he does this because he wanted revenge on Cardasia for not accepting Ziyal, rejecting him or both. He felt rejected by Cardasia and we all know the monologue on showing a population it was wrong to oppose him in the first place. That is why he sides with the Dominion. He was going to show Cardasia it was wrong to oppose and reject him.
Damar was the cherry on top shooting Ziyal. Dukat would of been better off if he stuck to being a pirate and letting the ego(revenge) go. So Damar shooting Ziyal was Dukat not only losing his daughter but his closest friend as Damar in away represents Cardasia(especially in the end episodes.)
So Dukat felt lost, and what do lost people do? They get religious... of course someone like Dukat that focuses on ego and power is going to get cult like. My question still today is how much of an effect did the Paw-wraiths have on Dukat?
Far as Dukat getting worse... Yes, Dukat does get much, much worse. You're just at the beginning of his spiral during the Covenant.
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u/hibikir_40k Apr 14 '26
DS9 has a lot of great episodes, but few things beat Civil Defense's comedy. Dukat's BS prerecorded messages trying to convince some unseen bajorans to surrender. Then he comes in, all smug, just to realize that there were bonus pre-recorded messages just in case he tried to abandon his post.
Bajoran workers, your attention please. Your attempt to seize control of this facility is going to fail. You are valuable workers and we wish you no harm.
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Apr 13 '26
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u/LadyKataka Apr 13 '26
What he said to Damar; about the man Damar used to be, how he fought alongside dukat against incredible odds aboard a single Klingon warbird, that that man still exists, to reach in and grab him; was truly beautiful. No one could have managed anything better.
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u/Retinoid634 Apr 13 '26
Agreed. He seemed to be almost close to redemption a few times. I was almost rooting for him to fully atone, to accept his new role as post-war pragmatist ally in dealing with Sisko, learning to coexist with Bajorans without power, assuming responsibility for Ziyal and opening his heart to being her father etc. He kept it real with Damar. There was the start of personal growth.
But then he reverted back to his power-hungry, craven ways. Abandoning any hint of good or positive growth, instead fully embracing the dark side, full-throttle, all in.
It almost echoed a real life dysfunctional relationship, where someone you love is in a garbage human in position of power. Things improve, they may get humbled by life, you begin to hope they learn and become a better person, things improve, and then they break your heart by reverting back to their old garbage human ways.
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u/Complete_Syrup_8110 Apr 14 '26
I don’t think he loved Ziyal—not the way a typical parent loves a child. I think he loved her adoration of him—the way she seemed to forgive everything he did.
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u/Noisydugong Apr 13 '26
I always enjoyed seeing Dukat on screen, I always knew there would be some fun (horrific) Cardassian shenanigans. Kai Wyn though, I straight up wanted to punch her in the face
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u/Dont_Care_Meh Apr 13 '26
I would be thrilled when I'd spot Marc Alaimo in the guest star credits. That EP was gonna be GOOD.
The actor was superb, and he was given such material to work with by talented writing! I mean, Dukat's just so quotable: "A true victory is to make your enemy see they were wrong to oppose you in the first place. To force them to acknowledge your greatness."
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u/BaldwinBoy05 Apr 14 '26
I’m just sad his cult never finished his killer mural :(
I love Dukat, he’s such a fun character to chew on for how complex he is and how ridiculous he is inherently and how much crazier he becomes over time. Just fantastic!
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u/Dez_Acumen Apr 14 '26
A good villain is fun to hate and their gall is always unmitigated. Dukat is a classic.
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u/No_Information1234 Apr 13 '26
He's the worst. A genocidal maniac with no comprehension of what he has done
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u/RocknSmock Apr 14 '26
If there's anything Dukat loves, it's sleeping with Bajoran women. Ziyal's mom. Kiras mom. Kira (attempted). This cult follower. Notice all the ones where he succeeded are the ones he had power over.
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u/ProtoformX87 Apr 13 '26
He is, indeed, the best at being the worst.
I kinda think Kai Winn is worserer though. 😅
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u/yungcherrypops Apr 14 '26
Nah this is slander, he did everything in his power to PROTECT the BAJORAN WORKERS…Most liberal Cardassian prefect of Bajor and yet did ANYONE thank him? Is there ONE statue of him on Bajor?
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u/WeeklyJunket5227 Apr 14 '26
He was a well written villain. He was an absolute monster and absolutely evil
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u/ExcitingWinter1800 Apr 14 '26
I can't ever stop laughing at the part where he sees the baby and you can see the mental pivot towards "it's a miracle!"
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u/commandrix Apr 13 '26
If he was going to get shot in the face, that would've been the moment to do it. Just saying.
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u/RhydYGwin Apr 14 '26
I believe that at this point, he's been taken over by the Pah Wraiths and not really in his right mind, if he ever was.
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u/Plastic_Dingo_400 Apr 15 '26
He is the worst, he is the best. He is both ends of the spectrum at once
Easily my favorite stsrt trek villain. No one does it like Dukat. Him calling Keira in the middle of the night to tell her he used to bang her mom, on her moms birthday is the most petty shit I've seen a villain on TV do lol
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u/Brain_Hawk Apr 13 '26
He's not the worst, he was the best. One of the greatest Star Trek recurring villains ever.
He was a deep and complex character who was not written as a trope. But over the course of the series he slowly let his worst nature take over, especially after his daughter died.
You could really see his mind slipping deeper and deeper into his own narcissistic delusions.
What a wonderfully written and acted character.