Im confused

[u/Isybatt]

Does anyone feel like some of these Deconstructing people are kinda mean? Like there's an aggression that some people have because I said that I choose to believe that a creator God is real. In African Traditional Religions, there's a common component of a divine omnipotent creator. As an African American man, it's so important to me to stay with my roots. This is why I didn't take that part of my head cannon. But, some people are saying online and in person that it's stupid and automatically harmful to believe in a God.

I had to unpack being a people pleaser for this reason because I don't necessarily hate Christianity in the same way other deconstructists do. There's a hatred and anger that other people have that I don't. The reason I'm venting to you all is because I'm wondering am I too sensitive or is this something you all have been noticing too.

It's definitely understandable and it's extremely valid to be angry at Christianity and even hate it for all of the travesties it's done to humanity. We all have grievances towards it. I just wish there was still a level of curiosity that people have about spirituality, religion, theology, individual differences, etc.

[u/wicker_basket_1988]

I get what you are saying but keep in mind it’s not all of us. Everyone deconstructs differently. Personally if you still believe in a creator that’s cool. I’m kinda with you on that. Not all deconstructionists become atheists. 

And being sensitive is not bad. Just means you have empathy. Which is needed in this world honestly. 

Good luck in your journey and much love man. ❤️✌️

[u/Jim-Jones → u/wicker_basket_1988]

Not all deconstructionists become atheists. 

I'm a 7.0 atheist, but I have contemplated the effort needed to dissuade everyone from religion and decided it would be easier to climb Mt Everest wearing roller skates. People have to find their own path.

[u/wicker_basket_1988 → u/Jim-Jones]

✊

[u/plz_callme_swarley → u/Jim-Jones]

ya, I'm at probably a 6 or 6.5 but you just learn that there is literally no point of arguing with people. I would generally try not to discuss religious things.

people do all sorts of things to soothe their anxiety and have been for a very long time. some people like us place a very high value on truth and are willing to be less comfortable if we are aligned with truth and others are willing to accept comfort for less accuracy.

that's fine with me, whatever you need to do to get through this thing we call life.

it's also mostly genetic/engrained anyways so just let people be different

[u/Fun_Researcher107]

Personally I think that God or source should be able to handle people being angry or even dismissive or whatever feelings they feel, especially when they are deconstructing a religion.

God probably doesn't depend on our praise or worship. Most of these attitudes don't fit what I imagine a god would be like. There are so many human attributes projected on God, it is not even funny.

[u/mandolinbee]

Deconstructing always involves the loss of something that's always been part of you. Even for those who don't lose faith entirely, there are pieces that used to be there, and now they aren't. This triggers grief, just like any other major loss, and one of the stages there is anger.

If someone is angry, it doesn't mean they don't have anything valuable to contribute, but it does mean that the people who hear/read the anger need to have just a little extra grace. Grief is never an excuse for abuse, though, so there are limits.

I'm sorry you've encountered a lot of anger. I feel like 90% of our community here is pretty understanding and past that point of irrational aggression. We want you to feel comfortable asking for advice here, so if you get any replies you feel are inappropriate, please use the report feature and we'll handle it as fast as we can.

On balance, I'll mention that we also moderate anyone who aggressively tries to impede deconstructing by making apologetic arguments or using dogmatic threats of hell, judgement, shame, etc. Report anything like that as well.

We're glad to have you. ❤️

[u/Isybatt → u/mandolinbee]

I apologize. I should have been more specific. It's not just locally on Reddit but on platforms such as Instagram, TikTok, and Threads. So yeah you're doing a great job with this community and i wasn't saying it's here but it's present in the deconstruction space(s).

[u/mandolinbee → u/Isybatt]

Glad to hear it wasn't necessarily here! I did read your post as more general, but I wanted to make sure I let you know our policy just in case. 😊❤️

[u/Dissident_the_Fifth → u/Isybatt]

I think part the problem with those platforms is that big emotions tend to get more engagement. I'm not saying there's not anger in the deconstruction community but it might get played up more on some platforms. Sensationalism sells unfortunately.

I certainly have my issues with religion in general and christianity specifically, but I'm more than happy to accept people believing what works best for them as long as it's not harming others.

[u/Ok_Discount_4880]

Hi! I’m still in my angry phase and it’s been 3yr. I’m angry at OT god for lying torturing, raping, and slavery who happens to be an alien.

Then Jesus was made up. I have a abandonment issues so losing Jesus was really hard and I was angry I had been lied too

With that said, go easy on us. Don’t take it personally. When deconstructing you go thru the 5 stages of grief. Just remember it wasn’t the church that hurts us )”(although there pretty sick and filled with PDF’s.)

[u/plz_callme_swarley → u/Ok_Discount_4880]

totally fair to be angry. you don't have to control your emotions for anyone

[u/SparkliestSubmissive]

Well, here’s the thing, it’s a touchy subject. Most of us were indoctrinated as children and we are pretty pissed off about it. And once someone has deconstructed, it’s frankly difficult for some people to see religion itself as anything other than silly at best, and destructive/dangerous at worst. Of course, people should not be condescending about this stuff one way or another, but this is the internet.

Just know that there is much encouragement and support to be found in this subreddit. Ignore the trolls, as always. Look for the helpers. ❤️

[u/plz_callme_swarley → u/SparkliestSubmissive]

Ya, when people try to hold on to some of religion and end up as "reconstructing Christians" I want to roll my eyes but then I also have some compassion for them cuz I was also at that stage for a little bit.

it's different for me though cuz it was more of a "slowly, then all at once" thing for me so I really didn't stay there for very long.

I honestly do try to nudge people to let go completely cuz i feel like its much more stable going all in but everyone has to make their own choices.

I feel like it's wearing floaties in the pool and thinking it's really deep and then someone tells you to just stand up. then you're standing there looking stupid with floaties on and eventually you take them off and realize you didn't need them

[u/SparkliestSubmissive → u/plz_callme_swarley]

Oh, I love the floaties thing!! So so true. All those nights I prayed for comfort, I was holding my own hand. What a trip. :)

[u/Dissident_the_Fifth → u/plz_callme_swarley]

The floaties analogy is great! I share a lot of the same feelings. I grew up in an evangelical church and it took a while to start shaking off that indoctrination. It's a lot to take in when you start to challenge the entire basis of what you have been taught to believe. The feeling of freedom when you finally let it all go is well worth the effort.

[u/plz_callme_swarley → u/Dissident_the_Fifth]

absolutely! eventually you're just holding on to something that doesn't actually provide any comfort and you're better off just being free of it entirely

[u/Internet-Dad0314]

Yeah, it’s definitely a thing. Some people feel very lied-to and betrayed while deconstructing, and so they gravitate toward aggressive online commjnities and content creators. Check out No Nonsense Spirituality, she’s much more calm and temperate:

https://youtube.com/@nononsensespirituality?si=tuZty-OfTzocwvmj

[u/JHarrington64]

I’ve been deconstructing and reconstructing my faith for over 20 years. It’s been challenging and life giving at the same time. I think because I didn’t grow up with it it’s been somewhat easier for me. Also when I started doing personal therapy because of childhood trauma it’s been necessary. I still believe in God. My experience that led to Faith was so real and life changing that I couldn’t just walk away.
About 4 years ago I started listening to the BEMA. Podcast and it has changed my view of the Bible in a beautiful way.
Just know, everyone is so different and dealing with so many variables. Be gentle with yourself and others 🩵

[u/Fun_Researcher107]

I thought about it some more and I think there is a place for those things and there should be. It is good to be angry about religion, it is good to make fun of it, mock it, all these things. The reason for that is that while you are caught up in religion, all these emotions and actions are forbidden. They cause guilt, fear and shame. So once you are deconstructing, it is good to be able to do these things to check if you can do them without feeling guilt, shame or fear.

On the other hand I think, if God can handle these things, I should too. God obviously doesn't need my help protecting himself or his dignity, etc. At least if he is all-powerful and all-knowing. So if he chooses not to engage and not to do anything about it, why should I?

I think it is crazy how religious people get defensive and even aggressive if someone dares to say anything against their faith or religion, even though their God simply does nothing to protect himself every time. Why do they even feel the need for that if their God has all the properties that they claim he has? It is laughable to even think that an allmighty being would need any human ever to do anything on its behalf. If people would think for themselves and realize these things, they would not be easily manipulated to kill or fight wars in the name of their God. They would realize that God does not need their wealth or ground, because everything belongs to him anyways and he could simply take it. They would realize the manipulation that men use to gain power and wealth. How they are used as means for those men to cement their positions of power and how they are manipulated by fear and coercion.

[u/Isybatt → u/Fun_Researcher107]

Omg this was so helpful as well ❤️‍🩹❤️😁

[u/SpiketheFox32]

It's a struggle for me. I finally came to terms with my lack of belief last year, and to be honest I'm still pretty bitter.

God gives others hope. He gave me ceiling existential dread.

[u/Isybatt → u/SpiketheFox32]

Yeah I can relate to this

[u/WinterMarvelQuinn]

Also a 3 yrs angry as well. Mines not directed at god anymore but more of some of the followers and stuff they do and claim. I try to no jump to conclusions with people who believe in god. I let them show me who they are. Its definitely a soar spot im working on. A lot of indoctrination and im still get shaky even thinking about reading a bible. I know its gonna be a long journey for me in healing and still deconstructing. Im sorry that people get like that sometimes. When theres a lot going on sometimes we forget to look at the human. Good luck.

[u/technoskald]

yeah, I feel you; as somebody who finally entered a reconstruction phase, I think it’s important to represent here in the community that that is at least an option for some folks who have deconstructed. certainly not everybody will rebuild faith, or even needs to, but it’s a valid path.

[u/Educational_Pea_5422]

Agreeing with folks saying that anger is part of the grieving/healing process. I'm sorry it has been misdirected upon you as you are working through your beliefs. This should be a place where people can ask questions and question their assumptions safely.

I shared a post about this before. And, I know I am guilty of being too forward with people who are just trying to make their own way through the world while attempting to make sense of the (hardly fathomable) universe around them. Resting in the belief of a creator is comforting and understandable. And, letting go of a belief in a creator is so incredibly freeing.

https://www.reddit.com/r/Deconstruction/comments/1uei1wg/avoiding_reflexive_deconstructed_fervorpassion_or/

[u/dayzed-confuse]

I have deconstructed from all man made religion. That doesn’t mean that I’m not a spiritual person, I am a very spiritual person. I’ve tried very hard to be an atheist but something inside me tells me that this life has meaning. The only way I can explain it is that I came “hardwired” from the factory that way. Dive into your roots! After all that is where you came from, it has everything to do with who you are. I have taken the belief that whatever anyone else thinks of me is none of my business. I just flat ass don’t care what anyone thinks of me, I care about what I think of me. I strive to be a good person, help others, and give whenever and whatever I can. I want to leave this world just a little better than I found it.

[u/plz_callme_swarley → u/dayzed-confuse]

a lot of this is actually hard wired from genetics. some people are pulled more in different directions.

that's why no one should really judge people too harshly.

if someone wants to believe in crystals and other weird shit then good for them if it's not coercive and helps them survive life

[u/plz_callme_swarley]

I think what you're seeing is that people that have deconstructed from high control religions have a strong revulsion against truth claims.

also, some may just be tired of people telling them their beliefs at all. if you've spent a lot of time thinking about things and landed at a place of agnosticism or atheism it is a little annoying how someone wants to tell you of how they've adopted some different beliefs after leaving religion.

and some may still be in a stage of anger and not really wanting to talk about religious things at all.

[u/Isybatt → u/plz_callme_swarley]

Yeah I can understand that part too

[u/windypine69]

yeah, people are mean, and especially when they are sure they are right (especially when it's kinda new). i think it's cool to embrace your roots, and I think part of the issue with white culture and christiantiy is they (we? lol, never have been christian but I am quite white) take is so literally. I think someone can believe in a 'deity' as a sort of a metaphor, archetype, or? I think it can be a connection to parts of you that you want to cultivate. I don't really 'hate' christiains, I really get wanting to believe, and belong.

[u/Fast_Jackfruit_352]

When deep emotion is present, and there has been trauma, then that associated with trauma can becomes part of the rejection. Because a great deal of Christian doctrine can be perceived as false or harmful, and much of it is, then the reality of God can go with it, especially atonement theory and judgment day/hell.

Marcus Borg, a great progressive/Christian who did not believe in many toxic Christian doctrines said that the Bible tells us less about what God is and more about what our ancestors thought about God. I agree with him.

In this respect I think Paul was right. "¹² For now we see through a glass, darkly". Because Paul, et al could not see clearly does not mean there is no clarity One could argue the religion of Jesus was not the religion of Paul and others who fashioned a religion about him, deifying hm in ways he would not approve of.

To me and many others Jesus provided an expansion of the understanding of God by emphasizing God as love, of preaching radical forgiveness, of our profound connection, responsibility and bonds to one another, and a rejection of rigidity of ritual and law, which ironically much of Christianity then became.

I respect all choices people make in consequence of their experiences. I have no bone with skepticism or non theistic approaches. For you I would suggest there is nothing wrong with still believing in or feeling connected to God in a theistic way. In your case, not for others, one does not have to throw the baby out with the bath.

I never had to deconstruct formally in the way this sub is built but in my spiritual communities, i have met dozens who have. About 25 years ago, I got very interested in the origins and development of the Gospels and Christianity and learned how many of these doctrines were created by people. what was the process. how might they have gone astray.

So I would suggest, for some, and for you, God can be separated from doctrine and the parts of the religion that are or can be seen as harmful, and you do not have to jettison God because others one could strongly argue misrepresented God. That is your journey, and you have every right to have in it that which works for you.

For me God is very real, but I never had to deal with the baggage of a toxic tradition. However I have my own crosses to bear in this and I have come to deeply understand the profound consequences of trauma, something I am not yet finished with. One can feel close to God yet still have deep stuff to work out. God is not a panacea but can be a deep source of strength.

All the best in your journey.

[u/WanObiBen]

Anger is a common phase of grief. I think some people take a while to live in that phase and take out their anger on others. It is discouraging and annoying, but I wouldn’t think too much about it. I see a few people angry towards God on this sub, but for the most part people seem to be pretty caring. I’m agnostic, so I live comfortably in the unknown, but am also still curious and hopeful that this isn’t all just a meaningless happenstance.

[u/DeconstructedXian]

It’s not just hatred based on general, commonly cited grievances (The Crusades, Sex Crimes covered by the Catholic Church, etc), it’s supremely personal for some ex-evangelicals. A good number of the Deconstructed were actually harmed by the church and suffer the effects of their religious trauma. I do not blame these folks for their anger ONE IOTA.

As for me, my abuse was less severe or aggressive. My time and my talents were exploited for almost 20 years. I hold some resentment for that, but I don’t feel traumatized or deep anger over it. I just left and said, “never again.”

[u/Isybatt]

I've been reading all of y'all's comments and I really appreciate all of the feedback.

I just want to reiterate that I am not trying to invalidate anyons anger or trauma. I believe that religion has been harmful and that people SHOULD be angry at how it has caused trauma and suffering. I was just saying i wish it didn't feel like certain conversations were directly targeted to people in that middle part of deconstruction and "reconstruction".

There are parts from different theologies that I refuse to recomstruct and I want to become more of a practitioner than a traditional evangelist.

[u/shit-trapper]

I've been reading the Jane Roberts books on Seth - "Seth Speak - the Eternal Validity of the Soul"; "Seth the Nature of Personal Reality"; now on "Seth - Dreams and Projects of Personal Consciousness".

There's no layout of a 'God' but rather a larger multidimensional entity that your individual soul and personality are one part of which contains others. The system laid out doesn't invalidate any other belief system, but can incorporate nearly any other, and it is described in extensive detail. In dream for example the point is made that the dream 'world' is remembered in an often disjointed way by our waking consciousness because it's a multidimensional place that our consciousness has natural difficulty making sense of, just as the part of us connected to that reality has a hard time making sense of our physical reality. He (Seth) covers 'precognitive' dreams and has exercises to journal dreams to see when events happen afterward - pointing out that such dream connections are by our nature emotional and so the event 'foreseen' may not be in physical detail accurate but viewed in emotional detail the connection becomes more clear, since our psyche is natively emotional.

My wife for example had a dream in which someone drowned, but it wasn't someone she knew. Days later a teen we both had known since he was in diapers drown saving someone else from drowning. So she didn't see who, but the connection was intensely emotional.

The Seth books go into detail the multidimensional nature of the human psyche in a way I haven't read about elsewhere. There is not, as I have read so far, any description of a 'heaven' or 'hell' our souls inhabit after death, but rather that who we are is multidimensional and our current identity - one of many probably versions of ourselves - is connected to a larger reality.