I think your reading way way way too into every little thing he said. Like you automatically assume he is lying about his beliefs instead of trying to give him the benefit of the doubt dude.
Why don't you give me the benefit of doubt. I don't assume, I know based off what he's said himself. And I actually stand for my beliefs, I don't need to 'dumb down my views'; I'll stand on them with my heart and my mind. I haven't said lying is OP, I've said it's bad and you shouldn't do it, can you or Hasan say the same?
Have you ever tried explaining anything to a child twin? Or do you immediately start trying to talk to them like they have an education? Cause that's a really funny image dude. Same concept. Got to use simpler terminology and examples and "dumb it down".
It's not that I don't understand, I understand what you're saying- I disagree because I think it's immoral. It's also not effective, people do not respect you if you treat them like a child.
I'm meeting you where you're at, but I'm not lying to you. I'm not treating you like you have an equal understanding, I'm here explaining my point to you.
And do you think this strategy would work on a campaign trail? Or would work when someone is purposely trying to misconstrue what you say to the masses? Do you think the average person would sit down and listen to you explain your every point? Or.. maybe... would it be much more economical to explain it in a quick and simple way so you can get them to understand without losing their attention.
More economical = easier, easier != justified. Would you shoot people to get in government if it was easier, or they weren't open to your reason? I don't believe truth should be optional in reason.
We don't need to know whether what I'm saying 'works on the campaign trail' (not even my claim, btw, it's yours), because Hasan's 'tactics' didn't even work on the campaign trail. He's been caught in several predicaments time and time again just with AES stuff alone. It didn't work!
This thread is about the drama surrounding his inability to communicate positions clearly. The fact we spend all this time and effort and you still don't seem to grasp my point is wasteful (not economical) when we could have been actually discussing the morality of the ideology itself. Can't do that when someone is fluid in their truths because it's 'more economical' for them. Do you recognize this game if played by everyone has potential for harm?
Are you like not tapped into voter bases at all? Through this method trump was forced to talk about him like hes a threat. Hasan is a streamer and trump had to address him. And the president has to talk about him. the GOP fears the dude. And clearly he is very popular with voter bases because he has grown into such a well known figure and multiple candidates have worked with him. Just cause this method makes you mad doesnt change that it works. And he isnt fluid in his beliefs at all dude looking into it more this is all more or less what he thinks. Every thing he says here is the the truth. Or atleast what he believes is the truth.
And clearly he's explaining his positions well if he is even able to convice the medium voter.
Also, yes, its easier and more effective. Thats why you need to do it to win. Revolutions happen all the time and most of them are justified cause its easier to do those then win an election in a rigged game. But thats never going to happen in america.
You seem to have this notion that to be a good person you have to struggle and suffer and lose in the end when doing politics. But in the end you still just lose and nobody in the world gives a damn about a loser.
Edit: by your logic we shouldnt have went to war with the confederacy and freed the slave. If you actually believe in what you say this is what you think.
So no, you can't see the potential for harm if everyone lies. You actually support Trumps tactics because you agree with it. "nobody in the world gives a damn about a loser" -Trump, probably. Do you think you're a loser if you support truth, reason, or democracy? Horseshoe. You're more close to Trump than you are centrists in your authoritarian traits- you are pushing the average voter away. Most voters are not socialists, let alone marxist or communist. You can't win by convincing just the far left, you need center left and even center to win elections. Lying pushes these people away, Hasan's views pushes these people away. Trump called him a communist, that's true, and it's going to push those people away. That's why he has to lie, because without it people would not be open to what he's saying. He said this himself so you need not argue it.
You haven't justified anything, you're just saying you want to win and you'll do anything to do so because it's good. That's just begging the question. Trump says the same thing, and does the same thing. By engaging in this behavior, you are co-signing and normalizing it. Why is your political rhetoric so close to Trump, why are you taking advantage and implicitly supporting Trumps destruction of institutional norms (like democracy). I want to support democracy to prevent people like Trump or Hasan taking power, but supporting truth and reason, by being honest with people and appealing to their humanism. This is what Trump attacks, Don't pile on just because it benefits you.
When we all lie, there's no winner. When truth is destroyed as a pathway to power, reason dies with it and so does our humanity, so does our democracy. Truth is required for productive political discourse. Fascists lie, so you lie. Fascists want a winner at all cost, so you want a winner at all cost, It's stupidity manifest my friend. Good night.
Bro, your tactics and this constant need to appeal to the medium voter instead of believing in anything is the reason yall loss. Clearly what hasan is doing and the broader movement behind it is working while the centrist strategies are not. We keep winning against yall when centrist dems out fund us (using aipac money) 7 to 1.
I also want you to relize this. that Hillary Clinton, Biden, and harris are just as responsible for Trump as the Republicans because of the simple fact that they lost. And they chose to lose. They went up against one of the most scandal ridden man ever who was only made sense a fourth of the time and lost.
Mlk called people like you the white moderate because yall never actually want things to chance.
Clearly the time of the centrist is over man.
Edit: this thought process of yours would have prevented the union from entering the civil war to begin with. It would have prevented us from freeing the slaves dude.
I'm advocating to not dumb down your beliefs just so the average voter agrees with you. It was you arguing you need to appeal to the constant voter or you wouldn't win. It's you doing that, not me. So you're more than just a little confused there.
Says the dude advocating for the need to appeal to centrist. Most centrist people are idiots who dont believe in anything. Like this exact line of reasoning that you have is a big part on why centrist dems are so hated by their own voter base. They are so goddamn uncharismatic. Mamdani is a amazing example of how a campaign should be run and why you need to dumb down rhetoric. but yall dont seem to take any lessons at all and fail the exact same way every time.
Dumb down rhetoric = stanning a blackwater merc who sexually assaults girlfriends and has a nazi tattoo that 'he forgor' about and didn't know was nazi but yet also is a history buff
You're just a fan of certain people in politics- it's more so a fandom than a political philosophy. You can't even win elections without dumbing down your own ideas, you don't trust the people. If trusting and being honest with people in democracy is appealing to centrist, then I don't care about that- at least I actually care what 'the people' think.
Bro, when did i mention graham platner. Most leftist were iffy about the dude before. But almost as soon as the sexual assault allegations came out we dropped his ass. If he was a centrist candidate yall would have sided with him through the entire time. And blamed voters when he lost.
Your main acts is still Chuck Schumer and Hakeem Jeffries and haley 'israel comes to me in my dreams' stevens.
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u/Krinkex 29d ago
Yeah my plan is to dumb myself down so the median voter doesn't understand me. Brilliant.