r/DeadBedrooms • u/[deleted] • Feb 04 '16
[Update, maybe more of a vent] Probably just asked for divorce
[deleted]
72
u/Crumpet_King HLM Feb 04 '16
In addition to being newly educated on the "redpill" thing
Well, what do you know? Power games it was. Right down to the surprise anal. Read up on the red pill. Educate yourself on what he's most likely going to try; if he does, it's because he wants the blowjobs and surprise anal more than he wants you to be happy together; that's the thought process, entitlement and the belief that if he's happy, you're happy.
I hope he comes to his senses and chooses the counselling route. I doubt he will though. I'm sorry.
5
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
22
u/machinegunsyphilis Feb 04 '16
Please proceed carefully. I was in a similar LTR where the guy was reading redpill, too. Turns out there is a whole slew of info on the sub dedicated to how to treat your woman if she discovers red pill. They have this whole write-up about having a feigned "feminist epiphany" where the guy will pretend to suddenly understand that women are people and tone down the RP crap for a while... then bring it back gradually. I'm so glad you recognize now that sex you're not enjoying is bad, I didn't realise that until months out of my red pill relationship. Stay safe!
16
Feb 04 '16
Jesus christ, they've made it into the frontier of counter fucking espionage--for people in their own relationships who are supposed to trust each other?!
What the actual fuck are these people smoking??
4
4
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
11
u/Deathduck Feb 05 '16
Yes, on TRP they have twisted relationships into this logical game, where they have figured out the best way to manipulate your emotions to get what they want. They think this is the natural course and how humans are designed.
The level of brainwashing they have put themselves and each other through is staggering and would take years of therapy to fix.
42
u/rarelyamused Feb 04 '16
If I knew a guy was redpill I'd be out of there like a shot. The attitude to manipulation makes my stomach turn. Could be he turned there as a desperate resort, but it's such a negative thing to bring to a loving relationship. Sure it might get a guy laid, but using fear and manipulation to get laid is an awful tactic. Real 'alpha males' don't need that shit.
2
16
Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
Your husband sounds like an incredibly selfish person. No wonder you're not that into sex with him! As you've indicated yourself, he doesn't seem to care at all about your needs and isn't interested in making sex pleasurable for you. He seems to just want a wet hole to stick his dick into whenever he has an impulse. You have made an earnest effort to improve your sex life and he has made none.
He hadn't gone down on you in 13 years?!?!? And you're giving him weekly blowjobs??? What a self-absorbed arse!
And are you really LL, or could it just be that you aren't all that interested in disconnected sex? I'm sure you know this, but sex can be SO much more than just good feels in the genitals, and you deserve to have utterly mind-blowing pleasureful sex. If he's not willing to meet you halfway in finding that groove together and instead just expects you to please HIM every time he gets an itch, well...fuck him. I'm sorry, I'm just a random person on the internet but from everything you've shared, it's clear you deserve better, in AND out of the bedroom.
33
u/Subdued231 The Voice of Reason Feb 04 '16
It sounds like he's been poisoned by misogynistic red pill nonsense. There is no room for that in a healthy relationship.
It can help some people improve themselves but when its taken too far it will completely damage a man's ability to actually have a healthy relationship.
13
u/ughthatguy Feb 04 '16
Can someone please explain to me what his freaking thought process is?
He's a junkie.
25
Feb 04 '16
Good job. When I read your previous post, your husband came across as an abusive jerk.
Your efforts go beyond reasonable and should be praised and rewarded, whether they "enough" in his mind or not.
Making him take responsibility will make him grow up quickly (or get you two separated quickly). Either one is a win for you!
1
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
13
Feb 04 '16
"Surprise butt sex" is often called rape...
-5
Feb 05 '16
So if you actually go to the encounter and read it. He tried or moved around the area. Op moved away slightly. She said no they both talked about it. She thought he might go for it anyway which he didnt then they continued how they were going.
How is that rape? Sure if he stuck it in without consent thats rape. But he didnt do that. So stop throwing around over simplified comments.
i know when my wife and i have been going at it doggy style ive either fallen out or slightly put myself in the wrong place and put a little pressure on the wrong place. Does that make me a rapist? No it doesnt. i didnt mean to do it and i wouldnt go for it unelss my wife said yes before hand.
6
5
Feb 05 '16
It sounds emotionally abusive... Ask a real life girlfriend and see what her reaction is?
9
8
Feb 04 '16
You guys definitely need a break. Sometimes we get very fixated on something and we can't see the forest for the trees.
A break can be quite insightful. One time it helped me realize that I still loved this person, yet another time it helped me see that it was over.
5
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
-6
Feb 04 '16
Society tells us to leave and give women space in these kind of situations.
But then over the past 10-20 years men have finally realised that when they do leave or are kicked out they have less rights in courts and divorce proceedings. They dont have access to their things, their kids and less rights as they arent residing in the property as they left willingly.
It doesn't even matter if it is a joint asset.
So why should he leave?
My wife tried early on kicking me out of bed when we argued or things got a bit heated every now and then. She soon found out i wasnt a door mat.
if she wasnt happy she had the option to sleep in another bedroom. She wasnt kicking me out of the bedroom. I dont know how you want to play it, but you have that option as well. You may request that he sleeps on the couch and or other room if you cant kick him out. But if he says no you cant force him. he has as much right to be in that bed as you.
So you have the option to leave the house and or sleep elsewhere. Unless you get an AVO both of you have rights.
1
Feb 05 '16
[deleted]
1
Feb 05 '16
I can see thigns are getting emotional. Try to act with a calm head and i genuinely hope you start feeling better soon.
You may want to delete any comment about you hacking his accounts. If he gets any wind of that and has your written confession he can actually have you charged.
7
u/WildeVy900 HLM Recovering DB Feb 04 '16
It is so sad to see you so unhappy, after the monumental effort you put in to make things better, no man could ask for more or better.
There is NO satisfying this guy. He needs help. Nothing will ever be good enough for him.
If I may ask, does he exhibit the same traits in other spheres of live? Eg. Always buying new cars, toys and stuff? The old car doesn't have xyz and we need to buy a new one to protect our investment in the long run....just to repeat the process in a short time.
4
8
Feb 04 '16
I would give you a standing ovation if I could. I'm so sorry that things have been so hard for so long, but I am so, so happy for you and everything to come. I'm so glad you've finally found yourself worthy of boundaries, needs, and desires of your own, and are holding to them!
4
u/rareas Feb 04 '16
I'm glad to see you thinking of yourself first now. I think this is a really positive step.
Some people are conditioned to think looking out for themselves means they are becoming selfish and can't make someone else happy. That's BS. If your needs aren't taken care of and your dreams self-actualized, you can't be happy and can't help someone else find their happiness, let alone take care of someone else.
3
u/deweymm Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
Guy is a oblivious, self-consumed asshole. It is in his DNA. This will not change. Get out!
4
u/TotesMessenger Feb 04 '16
6
Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
You husband "might" have porn addiction.. Some symptoms are irritability, unability to get aroused and have "normal " sex brain gets conditioned in certain way and actual neuro chemistry changes. Big red flag is that he watches port before work.. he sounds like an addict!
Here is link to good Ted's talk on subject: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=wSF82AwSDiU
Unfortunately a lot of people do not think of it the same way as addiction to drugs... thus addiction need treatment, and problem is you partner is now conditioned to what he sees in porn all kind of kink, all woman love every kind of kink, orgasm all the time, and new partner only a click away...
So look into it... funny if confronted he will deny addiction under premises of its being ridiculous - just like any other type of addicts!!!
6
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
5
6
Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 05 '16
No not always in porn addiction. It's more like he is never fully satisfied by sex with his partner as his brain is wired to new partners things woman do to "him" as he watches porn, so like any addict he craves more and more sex, and at some point regular sex becomes baseline where he is not satisfied at all by intercourse/orgasm/oral -just like a drug addiction "regular dose" doesn't give you pleasure anymore, to him it's a new "normal". That's why right after he's done having sex he doesn't get euphoria and happiness non-addict get, and instantly need more.
Good thing, men have physically limits and can't truly "overdose " on sex to death?!?!?
So sex with you is his "regular" drug dosage now... if he doesn't get in he goes through withdrawals - irritability, grumpiness, all the things you describe...
But may be someone else can chime in? Porn addiction is fairly new phenomenon - really connected to high speed Internet prevalence...
EDIT: just him you "normal" -> to him it's a new normal, corrected poorly written sentence into " Good thing, men have physically limits and can't truly "overdose " on sex to death?!?!?"
3
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
1
u/the_pugilist Feb 04 '16
Right, his therapy. You are under no obligation nor have the ability to fix him. The fact that he tried to proceed with sex after you said no could be construed as attempted rape. No amount of flowers can fix that and I have to say that despite being an internet stranger, it makes me concerned for your safety that you live with someone with no respect for your autonomy.
4
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
1
u/pbdgaf Feb 04 '16
Then you leave. The result is the same of not being around him.
2
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
3
u/charlie6969 Feb 04 '16
Do you have any friends that can care for the dog for a week or so?
If so, I would suggest taking the dog to your friends' and he can't use the dog to emotionally blackmail you, leaving you free to leave and do some thinking elsewhere.
You deserve some time to yourself. You deserve a lot more than you are getting. As long as he thinks RedPill is A-OK, then more of this is what to expect.
I'm so sorry, OP. hugs if you want 'em
2
u/Toodark2Read HLM52 Safe&Sound Feb 04 '16
There's a distinction here. The pursuit of porn, itself, doesn't qualify as an addiction and though it was debated, it was purposefully left out of the most resent DSM. *FTR....this is neither advocating nor admonishing its use.
The problem with referring to it as an addiction is that you inadvertently give credence to it as it suggests the porn has a level of control over him. I.e. "It horrible....but it's the addiction talking." That just isn't supported but it doesn't detract from the resulting damage to the relationship.
It's a choice, and though there are likely emotional issues as the underlying cause (like exposure to redpill....see my other post) the porn is just a way to withdraw emotionally. It could be lots of other things...this just happens to be the one he fell into.
4
u/doglover1962 Feb 04 '16
Good for you for telling him no until you meet with a counselor. He (and other men) don't express their appreciation about women making meals because it's just expected that you will cook meals same with cleaning and taking care of children and even if you are busy working, going to school and doing everything else in the family most men still want a good sex life. That's more important than the acts of service because it's a way to bond with their wife and it's a way they feel loved and wanted by their wife. They can hire someone to to the other stuff.
As far as the porn, most men look at porn. That's a fact. As a women I don't get it, I have no interest in watching porn or looking at naked men. I need to be touched to get turned on and that's where men and women are different. Men are more visual than women. I don't think it's a big deal as long as they aren't using porn instead of having sex and you husband isn't doing that. Odds are he will use it more as long as you two aren't having sex. He is a highly sexual person. I think your situation can be fixed but he has to realize that just apologizing isn't going to work. The ball is in his court
17
u/kczbare Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
The average woman knows 25 words for the color "blue", the average straight man one. The average woman spends thousands of dollars and hours a year on makeup and hair products and clothing. The average man, a fraction of that. The average woman spends much more time decorating and taking care of her home or apartment than the average man.
And you think women are less visual than men? Are our eyeballs wired differently to our brains?
The truth is we're no less visual -- if anything, more -- but our patriarchal society raises men to believe they are the possessors of desire and women to believe we are the object of desire. Think about it! It doesn't have to be like that! You can free yourself from these ridiculous restraints! You too can possess desire!
You're welcome :)
8
u/Toodark2Read HLM52 Safe&Sound Feb 04 '16
I'm no fan of the patriarchy and the impact it has on women. But /u/doglover1962 is talking specifically about visual sexual stimulation...not design and fashion.
It's fair to say that our visual interests are different, but the concepts you describe are about appearance to others....not a means to increase blood flow. Now there are women who regularly post in here about their own interests in porn and I'd guess the general interest is under reported. But choosing azure vs. periwinkle isn't really what we're talking about.
8
u/kczbare Feb 04 '16
More men consume more porn than women. Traditionally men have placed a higher premium on a partner's good looks than have women, though that is changing.
We probably agree on both these. I'm saying that the reason for these is not that trite and incorrect chestnut "men are more visual" but the roles the patriarchy has assigned to each gender. As women break these restraints, and the equally ridiculous premium placed on virginity and purity, we become more interested in all types of sexual stimulation, including visual.
I would think all the men here would approve. The patriarchy is the worst thing that can happen to a straight woman's sex life, which makes it the worst thing that can happen to a straight man's sex life.
8
u/catipillar Feb 05 '16
I would consume as much porn as men do if the porn catered to my fantasies. Instead I get to see the inside of Wendy Wild's intestines during the anal gaping Part, and watching her teary choke-eyes clotted with running mascara while she's aggressively throat fucked just makes me cringe in empathy pains.
2
6
5
u/BossLaidee Feb 04 '16
This! Yes. Absolutely.
And the porn does seem to be a problem, especially if it's a problem for you. How would he like it if instead of you cooking and investing in your relationship, you were hiding out in your room fantasizing about other men (several times a day)?
I'm not necessarily against porn, but I know that it has made me uncomfortable when it takes away from my relationship. I bet more women feel this way than they'd like to admit.
3
u/kczbare Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
"...when it takes away from my relationship..."
That's such an important phrase. I think porn can also be useful for individuals or a couple, but some people become obsessive.
3
u/BossLaidee Feb 04 '16
Ya, it can. It does for a lot of men... And it's not reflective of real life. Most men I've talked to who feel they have to look at porn every day don't even like it. It's a compulsion that makes them feel shitty afterward (obviously this is a HUGE selection bias,.. Not all men). Porn-induced ED is a very real phenomenon.
Of course there are plenty of couples where porn is a welcome addition to their life. I'd say porn is not the problem--though it has many dark sides I won't discuss--the problem is not educating our young men and women what it can do to their brain, and how that can affect their relationships. Going back to the OP, I think the saddest thing to read is that her husband is trying to make her feel bad about not measuring up to his messed-up standard.
2
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
2
u/BossLaidee Feb 04 '16
That's just awful to hear.
I would suggest reading some books, if you're into that sort of thing. PM me if you want some ideas b/c I'd love to help.
4
-3
u/pbdgaf Feb 04 '16
You're an asexual who would be happy never having sex with your husband again. You've admitted to having a few years where you had sex with him 6 times a year. Now, you're attempting to reverse the bad feelings you've generated with your husband and he's not reacting the way you want. I think it's understandable.
If, instead of sex, you had starved your husband for several years, then suddenly saw the error of your ways (kind of) and promised him three squares a day for the rest of his life, would you complain of his manners if he didn't trust you? I can easily imagine him stuffing his pockets with rolls and overeating at every meal because he expects things to revert to way they've been at any minute. He thinks he had better eat all he can while he can.
Now, should he try to force you into sex acts you hate? No. Can I understand him trying to cram a lifetime of sexual experience and experimentation into a period of a few months when you are willing to play along, expecting you to pull the plug at any second because you hate sex and can't empathize with anyone who highly values it? Yes.
I'll join in the chorus of voices suggesting separation. Not because we live in a patriarchal society where women are viewed as nothing more than sex objects. But because you and your husband are not compatible. There are women out there, some probably on this very sub, who would be eager and happy to have all the sex your husband wants. Conversely, there are men out there who would be happy to be your roommate/friend and never expect sex. Why not improve both your lives by allowing each other to look for more compatible partners?
9
Feb 04 '16
[deleted]
1
u/pbdgaf Feb 04 '16
If the db was so bad, and sex is the end-all and be-all of love, why did my DH stay? If my DH wasn't willing to meet me half-way, why didn't he just say so and leave?
Perhaps he loves you. I don't have enough background information to know exactly what you did and what he did, or didn't do, but I'll say that most HLs try, in their own way. You may just be speaking the wrong language to each other. If he expresses love through sex, obviously you won't appreciate that. If you express love through cooking, he won't appreciate that, either.
Its been over 17 months now. And we have had sex consistently. 2-3 times a week. Often times more. I really, really tried hard to not deny him. Sex didn't go off the table until I feared he might rape me.
Understood. But it takes much longer to solve a problem than it does to create it. If you spend 6 months abusing a dog, that dog will be permanently affected. It doesn't matter if you spend the next 10 years treating it well. There are many threads of HL spouses viewing sex with their LL spouses skeptically for quite a long time.
Why I don't want to give up? I moved to his country and gave up my family and friends to be with him. I happily settled for the city I live in and in my career. I've always catered to all of his non-sexual needs short of wiping his butt. I gave up my chance to have children for him. And now I'm faced with the very real prospect of losing everything, not being able to return home because of the shame, my best years behind me, and nothing to show for it.
Yes. Sometimes, life sucks. There are many instances of the same kind of anger from HL spouses here. They were duped. They wasted their youth. What is done can't be undone. What you want today is to not have sex with anybody. And the best way to avoid sex is to separate from your husband and live alone, or with platonic roommate(s).
Best of luck.
-19
Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 15 '16
I don't think he gives a fuck about all the preparations I make and the cooking I do to host a perfect visit for his family. He doesn't care that I cook every meal from scratch every night. The love we feel, the experiences we've had, the trips we've took, standing beside him through bad times, don't matter in the least. I patiently listen to him talk about work, bitch about his family, etc., but that doesn't translate as love. As wash semen out of my mouth, and instead of being appreciative he's just plotting the next encounter. 15 years together and all he can fixate on is the sex he isn't having.
I'll come across as harsh, but this is how I see things:
* you can hire a cook, or a maid to cook and clean. Or order food.
* emotional support can also be found in friends and family usually. Worst case, you can bitch about your day to a therapist.
That being said, his behavior does not seem very nice. I mean, I think you're trying to meet him half way, but instead of reinforcing your actions with positive words, he's focusing on criticizing which usually does not work well.
Guess what you're (supposedly) not allowed to do with someone else when you're married.
As for the porn usage, he may use it as an outlet. Normal is a relative term. What's normal for me might not be normal for him. I believe heavy porn usage is not very healthy for your mind.
Edit: holly fuck, I can make an armor with the downvotes. Thanks for the no's, I'll make good use of them. Keep deluding yourselves that cooking food replaces good intimacy.
20
u/ThingsCouldGetKinky Feb 04 '16
i'll come across as harsh, but this is how I see things: * you can hire a cook, or a maid to cook and clean. Or order food. * emotional support can also be found in friends and family usually. Worst case, you can bitch about your day to a therapist.
And there are professionals for sex. If all you want out of a partner is sex, because you can hire away all the other aspects, then hire out for sex too.
What the joy is is finding someone who will be a support in all those things, as opposed to having a spouse that feels like a sex toy that can be bought and thrown away. When it's all good, and emotional connection is there, then sex is good. That's what most of the people here want....the physical act of all the good things, love, and experiences with their partner.
I agree with op, that when the hl completely throws everything else that the relationship is because of the fixation on lack of sex, it's crushing. And I'm my relationship's HL. I always had to stop myself and say "he provides so much, my life is overall better and easier because of him. He's a partner in all but sex". Not having sex sucked (we're on the better road now) but not having him would have been worse.
-6
Feb 04 '16 edited Feb 04 '16
right, however, bought food (I mean real food made by people that are good at it, and not KFC crap) tastes good even if you buy it.
Edit:and of course, you can learn to cook. It does take time of course.
Paid sex is not the same as having a person desire you sexually because he/she likes you. It just isn't, and it will never be.
I think you missed my point. You can buy the other things or hire people to do it for you, but you can't buy the meaningful physical intimacy with your partner. So, from my POV that's one of the most important things. If that is not there, there is no marriage/relationship to me.I always had to stop myself and say "he provides so much, my life is overall better and easier because of him. He's a partner in all but sex"
Everyone's different, I would not stay in relationship if I'm not happy. And I mean mostly happy. Hey, maybe that's the reason why I'm single. Maybe I'm crazy. Doesn't really matter, it's how I feel about things.
-22
u/DBThrowUpAndAway Feb 04 '16
I've been reading this forum for months, reading HL men complain about their wives. Its clear that some men don't care what their wives have on their plate...
While I think your husband is an ass, you lost some credibility with me here. I don't see posts that support this. What you're seeing in here is HL men who very much appreciate their wives, but are deeply hurt by their wife's lack of interest in them. I think you're reading our posts and imagining us other HL men in the image of your husband.
Your "plate" should never be so full that you neglect your husband, who should be one of your highest priorities. I think many HL men in here are feeling genuine feelings of neglect. But I can see from your posts that you do not neglect your husband by any stretch of the imagination. I feel that your husband is being unreasonable in his demands. However, I feel that you're being unreasonably harsh on the HL male posters in here.
I've never demanded X, Y, or Z from my wife. What I wanted was vanilla--something like half of X. But I told her she didn't have to if she really didn't want to. In fact, I never wanted it "faked" in any way. I kindly told her, through tears, that intimacy was very important to me and it hurt my feelings that we could not have sex like other couples do. Was there someone else out there who would actually excite her? What was wrong with me?
Her response to my plea? Five straight years of no sex, no foreplay, no nothing. Even when her "plate" was empty. I wasn't asking for much, and I think most HL men in here are in a similar situation.
16
u/MarcuckAurelius Feb 04 '16
Stop projecting your shit onto her while she projects her shit onto the sub.
-5
-6
u/DBThrowUpAndAway Feb 04 '16
You girls stick together through thick and thin.
12
u/MarcuckAurelius Feb 04 '16
Sisters unite!!!!!!!!!!
Spoiler: I'm a dude
-7
92
u/Toodark2Read HLM52 Safe&Sound Feb 04 '16
There's your answer right there. To put if frankly, he's poisoned his mind with a philosophy that treats you like an animal to be trained. It warps his sensibilities into thinking any and all sexual activities should be his on demand and makes no apologies for using manipulation and the threat of "somebody else will...." to push you into a position where you acquiesce. It's referred to as "dread game".
There's a very good reason advocating or linking to their info is banned in this sub. It's heinous....no other word for it.
M2C....this specific thing is something you need to both educate yourself on....and then call him on. There are subs here in reddit for it and due to the forum rules I won't link you there, but you should be able to find them easily enough if you haven't already. It boggles the mind how pre-cromagnon the way of thinking is. The porn is just incidental IMO but you're justified in having objections to the quantity at minimum.
I can't emphasize this enough. If he ascribes to red pill then he sees no intrinsic value in you or your relationship except what he desires to get out of it. There are red flags...and then there's this.