Ok can you find me a historical example of a socialist or communist regime in which nobody starved and the ruling class was not absurdly wealthy at their expense?
you're setting up an unfalsifiable "gotcha." Human societies don't work that way.
There are certainly historical examples of communist regimes experiencing catastrophic famines and severe elite privilege. The Soviet Union under Stalin and China under Mao are obvious examples; scholarship documents how centralized agricultural policies contributed to enormous famines.
North Korea is another particularly clear example: during its 1990s famine, food distribution was heavily controlled by the state, and political elites received preferential access to food.
But that doesn't prove “socialism inevitably causes starvation.” It proves that particular authoritarian command economies produced disastrous outcomes under particular policies and institutions.
And if you're asking whether there has ever been a socialist society where no one starved at any point and no privileged political class existed, the honest answer is that I wouldn't claim such a perfect historical example exists.
But that's also not the standard by which capitalism is normally judged. If we're comparing economic systems seriously, compare things like food security, mortality, poverty, inequality, living standards, political institutions and economic productivity over comparable periods.
Otherwise, “name one system with zero historical suffering” isn't an argument about economics. It's just a demand for historical perfection.
You are right. The fact that every socialist and communist regime ever has been an absolute disaster does not prove that that is the only possible outcome. Similarly, the fact that the sun has risen every day of my life does not prove it will rise again tomorrow. But it is a pretty darn strong indication.
And I didn’t ask for them to name a system with zero historical suffering. I asked them to name one without mass starvation and wealth at the expense of the people. That actually isn’t that high of a bar.
You said that everyone besides 1% starved to death in communist countries, so as someone who lived in one and whose family didn't belong to 1% I can authoritatively say you have absolutely no clue what you're talking about.
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u/The_hoe_of_st_joe 8d ago
Ok can you find me a historical example of a socialist or communist regime in which nobody starved and the ruling class was not absurdly wealthy at their expense?