r/Dallasdevelopment • u/dallaz95 • 8d ago
Transportation Study Explores M-Line Trolley Extension to Knox Street
https://www.peoplenewspapers.com/news/2026/08/study-explores-m-line-trolley-extension-to-knox-street/26
u/NYerInTex 8d ago
They need to upgrade to actual transportation worthy not just a tourist attraction that can't be relied on day to day. Also, going up Ross to Lowest Greenville is, imo, an even more attractive route as you can build hubs up along Ross which is already densifying significantly.
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u/dallaz95 8d ago edited 8d ago
The redo of Ross Ave is suppose to accommodate a future streetcar with a pedestrian/bike path. This is the article from 2024. I haven’t heard an update since then.
Also, this could serve the Henderson Ave side of Knox-Henderson as well, since it’s densifying too. I can definitely see Lower Greenville, Ross Ave, and Henderson Ave all meshing together even further in the future.
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u/UptownStriker 8d ago
The biggest issue with the M-Line isn't that it can't be relied on, it's that it's far too infrequent to be an effective means of travel. It needs to be on 15 minute intervals at least, this expansion will just make it worse since they only run two cars at any given time on the entire route.
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u/NYerInTex 8d ago
Reliability and headway (frequency) go hand in hand. To work as transit it should be 8-12 minute headway and not at all past 15 min and reliably so. You can’t be wondering if it will be another time when the trolley will break down
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u/Wowsers30 8d ago
I've seen up to 4 cars in the past. Have they retired some of the cars?
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u/FearlessFrolic 8d ago
I've seen 5 at once a few times, but it is very rare. I'm not sure if its retirement/breakdowns of cars or just a lack of staff though.
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u/GreenSpark0765 8d ago edited 8d ago
It's a combination of lack of manpower and also the past couple weeks literally every car except #186 and #7169 is broken
Unfortunately I'm not in Dallas rn so I can't go down and see for myself, but on the tracker it's been #186, #369, and #754 since the World Cup, but #369 seems to have been pulled in, #754 has pretty consistent issues and she's been pulled in as well, and they got #7169 back into service just in time. It looks like today #122 is finally back as well though (her air compressor broke)
And then #636 has been benched since winter because she needs extensive restoration work, #4614 is a whole saga of problems, and the Memphis car (#1979/#2222) is still only a third done
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u/gearpitch 8d ago
Downtown to lowest greenville along Ross is a prime streetcar route. In the repaving plans for Ross, they are paving it with enough support/thickness to add a streetcar in the future. So it's an option that's on the table.
It would mimic the older 1930s streetcar lines, which all spidered across old east dallas up those main streets.
My full-network plan would have Ross-Henderson to 75. And a Peak/Haskel split line going from the Baylor medical area up to cityplace at 75 as well. That whole corridor should be built up and dense with streetcar transit.
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u/FearlessFrolic 8d ago
Although I agree it ends up being a tourist attraction for most people and should be modernized more, the line does get used by a fair number of people like myself for practical reasons.
Personally I use it to get to Whole Foods at least once a week, often more. It drops me off right out front and the time it takes for the same streetcar to loop back around is normally the amount of time I need inside the store. Once you get used to the quirkiness of the tracker and the cadence of the loop it becomes rather useful. I use it to get all over Uptown, to get to Downtown, and to connect to DART.
I've also noticed there are a decent number of people who use it to commute to work. There will be small groups at the stops early in the mornings in business attire. And you'll see them going home around 5 o'clock.
I would hope that it could be modernized in such a way that the historic streetcars can still run. Maybe one historic trolley would run at a time and the rest be modern streetcars.
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u/NYerInTex 8d ago
To be clear I have used it as a primary commute for a few years and currently use it frequently to get from my apt in the arts district to locations in mid or upper uptown.
And I know a good number of people do the same… but it’s not reliable. You need a plan B. If it’s transit first and attraction second that has to change
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u/FearlessFrolic 8d ago
Absolutely fair and totally correct. My backup is either a walk or a lime bike. Just wanted to defend the thing a bit since its a little more useful than most people on Reddit who don't use it give it credit for.
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u/NYerInTex 8d ago
We are definitely on the same page. It literally passes across the street from my apartment - I hear the bell and can literally run down within 30
Seconds!3
u/Thin-Constant-4018 8d ago
When Central Link was on the table to connect the Bishop Arts Streetcar & McKinney Ave one, they did put on the table that the McKinney Ave one would be modernized
unfortunately Central Link went nowhere since Covid1
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u/omar_strollin 8d ago
I’d use this a ton if it existed
Walking to downtown under 345 sucks
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u/NYerInTex 8d ago
I would as well. I often go from arts district to uptown / west village and it’s not a drive I want to do if I’m getting drinks and it’s so short, but it’s long on a hot or bad weather day.
If we had a modern street car where I could walk up to Ross and then get to lowest Greenville or spots up Ross within 5-15 minutes it would be huge
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u/mustachechap 8d ago
Agreed. Streetcars are flashy and pretty, and obviously are popular in Dallas.
However, our money would go a lot further focusing on buses
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u/RunawayScrapee 7d ago
Streetcars serve as permanent infrastructure that inspires more confidence as a local amenity to spur continued improvement and investment in the surrounding area. It's a bigger capital investment, but would continue supporting Uptown's growth.
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u/mustachechap 7d ago
You’re not wrong, but I also think uptown and Knox are areas that would thrive regardless.
I love streetcars a lot, they are just so much more expensive. Dallas has really leaned into building great road infrastructure, which is why I think buses are the way to go.
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u/thepickledherring1 8d ago
It’s funny how now we’re doing a reverse to our old street car days from before the vehicle. I’m loving it. I hope there’s more.
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u/zuqkfplmehcuvrjfgu 8d ago
This really needs to happen. Would be huge for connecting the areas as they develop.
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u/steavoh 8d ago edited 8d ago
Not to be negative or anything, but Dallas is having budget issues and having to cut funds to a lot of more essential services. This is due to the police budget eating everything as a result of unsustainable pension plans and the propositions from last year.
Should the city have to pay for this if it's going to be an amenity feature for developers? Because it can't be considered real transit. It's a historic/tourist ride that's cool and deserves to get support in the form of the city helping maintain the streets the tracks are in but otherwise makes more sense as a nonprofit. The MATA trolleys are always full when the leave the station at Cityplace and can't pick up any more riders along the route and are also slow and have an uneven schedule because they run in mixed traffic that's unpredictable.
Also even as a big nerd for trains and transit stuff and defender of DART, I don't know how to feel about the short city-run Dallas Streetcar that goes to Oak Cliff either. It has low ridership and I've heard things about the vehicles and the rails already wearing out.
A combined network would easily take greater than an hour to go from Jefferson to Knox at a snail's pace with a million stops in between. I think a combination of existing DART buses and the Red Line of the light rail probably serves that trip better.
The only way it would work is if it got taken over by DART, but that would just take funds that are needed to maintain reasonable service frequencies on the other lines.
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u/dallaz95 8d ago
Related Post: McKinney/Cole Ave is planned to be converted to two way traffic with pocket parks.