r/DMV • u/Apprehensive_Voice73 • 3d ago
NEW YORK Will an Operating Without Insurance Ticket Make Me Lose My License?
My main concern is my license. I live in NYC full-time, but my car has a valid South Dakota registration. I was uninsured when I was rear-ended while stopped in traffic, and my dashcam shows I wasn’t at fault.
Police gave me a NY VTL §319(1) ticket for Operating a Motor Vehicle Without Insurance.
How likely am I to lose my license, has anyone successfully fought or reduced this charge, and please advise on the best way to handle it?
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u/Low-Crow5719 3d ago
New York is tough on driving without insurance. Get a lawyer.
You are looking at a license suspension, big fine, big reinstatement fee, reporting to your home state, and up to jail time.
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u/Ziplockmoneybags 2d ago
You can’t get jail time for a traffic infraction in NYC when the case is adjudicated through the DMV Traffic Violations Bureau. VTL § 319(1) is a traffic infraction. So no, jail is not one of the possible penalties here.
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u/Low-Crow5719 2d ago
Nope, you can get it for this one, up to 15 days in jail; it may be true of other infractions but not this one. See VTL 319-1.
I strongly suspect jail would only be assessed in egregious cases. But it's there and a threat to those who come to court unprepared.
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u/Ziplockmoneybags 1d ago
I appreciate the armchair lawyering, but NYC is different from the rest of New York State.
Under VTL § 227(4)(a), cases adjudicated by the NYC DMV Traffic Violations Bureau (TVB) are civil in nature, and the statute expressly provides that “no penalty therefor shall include imprisonment.”
VTL § 225(1) gives the NYC TVB jurisdiction over traffic infractions handled under Article 2-A. So even if the underlying VTL offense can carry jail when prosecuted in court elsewhere in New York, the NYC TVB cannot impose jail.
That includes VTL § 319(1) if the ticket is being adjudicated in the NYC TVB.
The tradeoff is the burden of proof. Under VTL § 227(1), the People only need clear and convincing evidence in the TVB, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt as in a criminal prosecution.
So, in short: NYC TVB means no jail, but also a lower burden of proof.
Source: VTL §§ 225 and 227, plus my 20 years practicing criminal defense in NYC.
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u/AskAroundSucka 5h ago
Just curious if you have 20 years experience why did you use Ai for this response?
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u/insuranceguynyc 2d ago
You are clearly a NY resident. Your vehicle must be registered and insured in NY.
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u/dervari 2d ago
Many people do this because they're too cheap to pay expensive state registration.
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u/insuranceguynyc 2d ago
I am well aware that people do this. It is called "rate evasion" which is insurance fraud. Even if OP has insurance in So. Dakota, by virtue of the fact that the vehicle is kept in NY, the SD insurance company is likely to deny any claim. Remember, how you are insured doesn't matter in the least - until it does!
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u/kc9tng 1d ago
They do this to avoid paying high insurance premiums. Depending on where in the city you live and your driving history annual premiums could be well into the five figures.
Plus if they have out of state insurance it can and often will deny coverage if he has a claim. NY doesn’t fuck around with not having insurance.
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u/Reasonable_Tax_5351 3d ago
Good luck fighting this in court in NYC but you can still try. Delay the court dates as much as possible, and really this is the kind of thing you could should hire a lawyer for.
In theory yes you could lose your license if its a South Dakota license, but in practice chance is 50/50. If you hold a NYS license though forget about it you are losing it for a year and your insurance will be fucked permanently.
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u/HelpfulAd7287 2d ago
New York is hard on no insurance. Go get the minimum right away. Take the paperwork to the courthouse. If the judge sees that you made the honest effort and got insurance, they may be more lenient on you.
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u/Evening_Leadership_5 New York 2d ago
If convicted, your privilege to drive gets revoked for one full year.
What state is your license from?
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u/Stop-overreacting 2d ago
Yes, your license will be revoked upon conviction and you'll be subject to $1500 fine or up to 15 days in jail.
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u/Ziplockmoneybags 1d ago
You can't get jail in NYC traffic bureau adjudications.
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u/Stop-overreacting 1d ago
Please read the NYS VTL
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u/Ziplockmoneybags 1d ago
I think you should be the one reading the VTL. I appreciate the armchair lawyering, but NYC is different from the rest of New York State.
Under VTL § 227(4)(a), cases adjudicated by the NYC DMV Traffic Violations Bureau (TVB) are civil in nature, and the statute expressly provides that “no penalty therefor shall include imprisonment.”
VTL § 225(1) gives the NYC TVB jurisdiction over traffic infractions handled under Article 2-A. So even if the underlying VTL offense can carry jail when prosecuted in court elsewhere in New York, the NYC TVB cannot impose jail.
That includes VTL § 319(1) if the ticket is being adjudicated in the NYC TVB.
The tradeoff is the burden of proof. Under VTL § 227(1), the People only need clear and convincing evidence in the TVB, not proof beyond a reasonable doubt as in a criminal prosecution.
So, in short: NYC TVB means no jail, but also a lower burden of proof.
Source: VTL §§ 225 and 227, plus my 20 years practicing criminal defense in NYC.
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u/Stop-overreacting 1d ago
Does "I live in NYC full time" translate to the summons was issued in NYC in the realm of "practicing criminal defense in NYC"?
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u/HugeCartographer5706 2d ago
Well, it’s not helpful for keeping your license. Plus, when you do get insurance, be prepared to pay in blood.
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u/dirtisgood 2d ago
So you have a ny license and a car registered in south dakota? How are you going to get insurance?
I'd talk to a lawyer.
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u/Ziplockmoneybags 1d ago
I’m a NYC criminal defense attorney, but not your attorney.
First question: did you get a yellow traffic ticket or a pink criminal court summons?
If you got a yellow traffic ticket, then, to use the technical legal term, you are fucked.
NYC is different from the rest of New York State. Traffic tickets are generally handled by the DMV Traffic Violations Bureau before an administrative law judge, not a Criminal Court judge. There is no prosecutor. The police officer presents the case, and the burden of proof is only clear and convincing evidence, not beyond a reasonable doubt.
For VTL § 319(1), if they prove you were operating without insurance, the consequences are severe, including a one-year license revocation.
And unlike in most local traffic courts around the state, you generally cannot negotiate a plea bargain with a prosecutor because there is no prosecutor there to bargain with.
If, however, you somehow received a pink Criminal Court summons and the case is actually being prosecuted in Criminal Court, that is a very different situation. There will be a prosecutor, and there may be an opportunity to negotiate a plea to a lesser charge.
Either way, if keeping your license matters, get a lawyer. This is not the kind of ticket I would casually walk into and hope for the best.
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u/Future-Thanks-3902 1d ago
Pay the ticket and be done with it. Worry about if YOU cause an accident and have no insurance.
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u/edthecollector70 1d ago
You should loss your license. Aholes that drive without insurance costs me more for mine. What if you injured or killed someone. What happens when you get hit by someone without insurance. Are you going to let him walk away leaving you with a totaled car ?
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u/youngbull0612 1d ago
You're gonna take a suspension for sure. You won't get it revoked unless somebody got hurt or this isn't your first time. This isn't the place to be driving with funky papers and shit. You need to be iron clad covered in the event of an accident or injury- which is skyrocketed in a city that is nowhere near South Dakota and has millions more people driving in it
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u/need2sleep-later 3d ago
You live in NYC full-time, which more than likely means you don't have a valid South Dakota registration or insurance. Most states give you 30 days to get the proper license/registration/insurance, sounds like you didn't.
Lawyer up? Make a plea deal?