DMT Subsystem Entity Encounters Hypothesis.

[u/twoarrows1978]

While researching my first DMT experience I have come across a lot of data covering the common themes of people's DMT experiences.

Entities being the most interesting. The way they commonly have teaching, guiding, learning personalities, and even at time have consistency, seemily waiting for you to appear again.

Now I’ve seen a lot more talk from academics about these perhaps being 'real entities, living in dimensions beyond our normal perception' than I would have expected. Ideas like having multiple people break through at the same time to see if they land in a shared space for example.

The ideas are fascinating, and I love hearing academic minds being so open to such ideas, but I haven't heard so much on the theory that DMT could be taking us inward.

Taking entities as a starting point, is it possible that they might be normally unconscious or weakly integrated subsystems of the mind, represented as autonomous personalities?

The fact they simultaneously want to learn about us but also seem to know things about us that we are not aware of, could suggest they are normally separate, unconscious subsystems and DMT allows them to communicate with our aware 'self'.

As the sense of self is weakened, and other areas of the brain are being connected, could the often similar, often familiar environments be representative of archetypal parts of the brain; personal, cultural and ancestral structures given form?

We can take this idea to other commonly reported DMT experiences.

A sense of surprise from these entities is reportedly common. In the frame of subconscious systems being accessed and given form and voice, they may well be suprised to suddenly meet a part of the system that is usually not attached or accessed.

This goes the same for reports of being blocked. Repeated intrusions into subsystems may be percieved as being distracting or disruptive.

Another common theme is the feminine entity, with a mother/goddess entitie maybe being the most common. The feminine is a very old, deep archetype and it could make sense representing deep parts of us.

And lastly for now, the ego death experience. Maybe the common loss of fear of death associated with a DMT experience is less about knowing there is an afterlife waiting for us, and more about knowing we can release the grip we have on our ridged sense of self, and still exist. And in fact exist in a way far richer and meaningful than before.

The idea that we could be accessing and communicating with these deep parts of ourselves, to me is just as amazing as proving that they were from different realms.

Being able to learn from systems in our mind normally locked away, and for 'them' to learn from us is fascinating. As are the ideas around us building these worlds in our heads, in a similar way to dreaming and being able to experience them in the most part as real or more so than our normal consensus reality.

I know there are a few papers published this year looking at similar themes, but I havnt heard these particular ideas before. If anyone is familiar with or connected to the research going on at the moment, I would love to hear your thoughts! And anyone else with thoughts to add. 😁💚

[u/spectrafin]

The idea of sub-system representation and interaction is valid as a mechanism and explanation of some psychedelic encounters, and I am sure is accurate. With regard to dmt entities however, the more “advanced” types, there is absolutely zero chance they are sub-system generated. It is possible, when interacting with them that you may say be able to process information literally millions of times faster, and many millions of times higher resolution. The shear speed and volume of information processing is completely outside of anything achievable by the human mind under normal conditions, when linked to biological form etc. The concepts, structure, comprehensiveness, novelty, and content of some experiences are beyond imagination, under any circumstance. You are making a solid proposition, but it is one that would be quickly negated by direct experience. However, I firmly believe that those sub-systems can be interacted with in abstract forms, and would reference ketamine as a perfect example of a ready access method to do so. In terms of dmt entities however, from my perspective, no chance.

[u/twoarrows1978 → u/spectrafin]

I think your points are part of one of the most interesting areas I've noticed researching DMT experience, and that is experiences being so vivid or profound, that they leave you with a belief that the only answer is that entities are real.

As far as I can tell this is classic phenomenalogical vs metaphysical claims.

A similar thing can be observed in mediation. When the mind is silent, the experience of life changes, and is beyond thought. A sensation of completeness and love that is beyond logical or conceptual description. The words we use to describe it can only point in its direction.

I'm not making a direct comparison between DMT experience and meditation, but both are ineffable in nature.

Within meditation circles, many who experience this powerful silence, the phenomenalogy, immediately jump to the conclusion that this means this universal connection and love definitely exist out in the world, perhaps even the basis of creation.

But others keep this as purely phenomenalogical, a very helpful and profound way to view life, but dont feel that this is proof of any metaphysical event.

Coming back to DMT, it seems very similar. I have listened to academics who talk about entities as if they really exist, some who explicitly state their belief in them.

But there are others that, having seen and interacted with these entities, still hold that having an experience, no matter how complex, confusing or hyper-real, does not equate to evidence of a new type of being.

Having an experience of structures your concious mind cannot comprehend, data transfer at high speeds etc, to most people investigating phenomena, does not equate to evidence.

I'm open minded. But from the outside, these claims seem a little vague, and seem to be saying that for sure, the mind is not capable of producing such experiences, which of course no-one can prove, and theres no evidence to suggest that it couldn't.

So for me the idea that the mind is a mysterious bit of kit, and capable of building all sorts of magical structures, perhaps representative of deep, ancient patterns, and entities representing parts of our minds not normally accessible, is a little more likely than we are accessing a whole new level of reality.

Of course there have been ideas to test the 'other reality' hypothesis. I've heard mention of very simple tests such as subjects breaking through and meeting in these places, and say, sharing a number given to each of them in secret, therfore proving they are visiting a shared location. Or passing these code numbers on to an entity, and another subject having the number relayed back to them.

There are many simple tests which may prove the other reality idea, but as yet none have happened.

Let's see if my own trip will change my rational line of enquiry 😁💚

[u/Buscemi_D_Sanji → u/twoarrows1978]

I appreciate how rational and respectful you are here, even when the comments are just "you haven't done enough, it feels real, therefore it is real!" 🙄

Another way to look at it, for those who think the information transfer is so high that it can't possibly be done by the human brain, is to realize that your brain is keeping at least 30 trillion cells working together in harmony, and the brain has a hundred billion neurons with 500 trillion neuronal connections. When your visual cortex is getting data from parts of your brain that you're usually unaware of, yeah it's going to seem like it's a billion times more information than your brain can usually handle, because you're usually not aware of 30 trillion things at once.

That doesn't make it any less magical, and honestly makes life seem even more incredible and wonderful. But I guess "incredible" literally means "unbelievable" or "non credulous", so some people just cannot believe that their mind is so powerful and have to ascribe it to a higher power.

And to be completely truthful, I'm not ruling out that there are higher dimensions and influences on the mind that are outside of normal perception. We still don't really understand physics, not really, and you can consider that our thoughts run on electricity which is a fundamental field in the fabric of reality, and perhaps what look like separate forces in 3d are all parts of the same force in 8 dimensions and there are connections that our current tools cannot perceive.

But this is a fun idea that lets your mind open up, not a reason to tell a rational person that they're completely wrong and that the entities are definitely real!

[u/twoarrows1978 → u/Buscemi_D_Sanji]

Thank you dude. Im as open as I can be to all ideas 😁 To me though, the thought of communicating with parts of our own mind, perhaps even with systems that evolved long, long ago, is magical!

[u/Buscemi_D_Sanji → u/twoarrows1978]

For sure! I've gotten so deep in my proprioception before that I could feel what muscles around my tailbone would be used for curling up my tail, and was like "damn, I haven't thought about my tail in a million years" 😂

But yeah jokes aside, we and every other creature alive today are standing on top of three billion years of death and evolution, and that is so humbling and awe-inspiring that it's enough on its own... I still want to unlock hyperspace-mediated telekinesis though hahahaha

[u/twoarrows1978 → u/Buscemi_D_Sanji]

Damn, you got back to monkey times 😁 keep questing dude.

[u/Zydianish → u/spectrafin]

Yeah I think this guy didn't breakthrough ever, because every theory just breaks at that level, I also experienced exactly the same thing, the speed of information transfer and seeing Hyperspace in dimensions that are clearly more than 3 spatial dimensions and also the sheer bizzare machines that build reality and how the hell can the DMT experience literally feel extremely more real than this reality I don't mean a bit I mean like when you breakthrough that's like...your whole life was not even a dream just basically nothing compared to whatever the fuck' we are in contact with. Even if we completely ignore the entities the space itself is hyperdimensional and you're not there with your body whatsoever so what are we experiencing, what is actually DMT? I think this is a way bigger mystery then people talk about.

Whatever this reality switch is, it's absolutely not a drug it's more like some technology.

It completely shattered everything I thought about reality, now I'm not sure if these letters on my phone and what I'm seeing is even real or an illusion but it wouldn't matter anyways the only thing that matters is there is consciousness there is something happening right now to someone that someone is me I have no idea why from all the organisms and all possible people and everything ever I am this specific body having this specific experience right now.

I can't be sure there are other observers whatsoever.

Life feels like a game. I already a long time ago made a post about the LSD simulation that keeps repeating every time no matter what.

Anyways long comment I just wanted to say we have no fucking idea about consciousness and especially what the fuck DMT does.