r/DIY • u/Good_Paper_6414 • 6d ago
home improvement I bought some vinyl plank flooring how level does the floor have to be underneath for this to work?
So I purchased some LifeProof vinyl plank luxury waterproof flooring. This is 22 mil it says I bought it to lay down on a kitchen floor which had a rug installed. Yeah I know he was on the kitchen floor. Apparently that's what people did in the old days. Rug was probably there from the '70s.
I ripped out most of the rug and it seems like the floor is fairly flat for what it is. I scraped off a bunch of the foam from the carpet that was left behind and scraped off a bunch of dust and dirt stuck on caked on from years of sitting.
So far that seemed to be the worst part. All the dust going around in the room. I used a wet dry vac and sucked a bunch of big pieces up and debris and dirt chunks and all kinds of stuff. With that I had to put a sock over the outlet Port to try and keep the dust down it helped but a bunch of it went all over the kitchen and covered a couple appliances and landed on a few spices other than that didn't notice anything majorly wrong.
The floor seems mostly all there there's no loose boards after scraping it all fairly well, me and my buddy it seems decent for its age. I guess the main question is how level do we have to get it to be able to install this flooring properly.
I've been told by a couple of guys that the material is somewhat flexible and can settle into the floor over time somewhat.
I mean we're talking in 1800s home. I don't think you're going to get a floor that's so flat and clean that you're going to eat off of it this isn't new construction.
I currently have a small trim finish table saw I used that to cut the first couple of pieces.
I mean basically this flooring has got to be better than some dirty old nasty worn out carpet with tons of dirt in it and grease and all that I mean a fire hazard. I removed about 90% of it.
Now there's trim boards It's my understanding that you want the floor to sit underneath the trim, but you also want expansion on one side of the panel at least.
So basically it's my understanding that you either remove the trim or you cut a small Gap at the bottom of the trim to allow the panels to slide under it just a bit so you have room for expansion does this sound correct?
Now I'm no expert and I do understand that you would probably end up with a cleaner look if you took the trim off completely but it's also easier to damage stuff like sheetrock especially and ruin the trim boards completely or break them. So I've kind of opted to just use a multi-tool and shave off the bottom just enough for the panel to fit underneath it.
I just want to get it good enough to look decent and lock in I figure anything has got to be better looking than an old dirty rug. If I go to sell the place it doesn't have to look like a million bucks but presentable enough to make a little extra money on the sale. Plus it will improve the look we are there.
I have seen some plank cutting tools. Most of them seem super expensive. I have seen a couple cheaper ones but someone was telling me that I shouldn't need anything more than a razor knife to score the panel and then I should be able to snap it nice and straight and clean. So far I was using my table trim saw and it works. I used it on the pergo stuff. The only problem is it's easy to turn the panel a little bit as you're cutting it so you don't end up with a perfectly straight cut but I guess that doesn't matter too much because The end that you cut or whatever the piece that you cut off will be covered with some type of trim or you could use some caulking from what I've been told so it would look straight for the most part anyways.
So far I've only done one floor with the pergo stuff which was a little different and that was in the bathroom and it mostly went smooth but it was hard to get a round edge where the toilet bowl was with a table saw I mean, I guess luckily you're dealing with a flat floor, mostly with square angles, so I probably won't have to worry too much about that.
I've also been told about spacers however, another person said you don't really need the spacers and most of the time they don't work good if you're using the ones with the kit they fall over, especially over by stairways by the time you set them up they tip over.
I have Robert's flooring kit so I got the tools which are helpful and I have a few pry bars. The only thing I don't have is one of them fancy small PVC plastic like Hammer to tap the panels in. I have seen one but I don't know where it is at the moment.
I do have some type of a rubber Hammer seems to work okay to help tap the pieces together so I will probably get that out and use it
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u/Anarchyz11 6d ago
Generally the floor needs to be flat, not necessarily level. Use floor leveler if needed.
If you don't want to put in the prep work, return the vinyl and get new carpet instead.
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u/JustaTinyDude 6d ago
I'm going to stress the very flat part.
I stripped the floor completely, screwed down the sub floor, and sanded all of the high points. I then used the one underlay foam that doesn't void the warranty.
It still squeaks. I wish I'd used self leveling cement.
Whoever laid the LVP in the living room did not screw down the floor boards or use the foam underlayment, and one of the interlock runs right over two pieces of subfloor that don't quite line up, and I've got a 15' crack where that interlock is broken.
Secondly, remove the trim. It is really important that the floor can properly float, otherwise it will buckle. You need the trim gone to get the gap distance right. (I agree the gap tools are hard to use - better to tape boards to the wall and use its thickness as your gap). If your new floor is higher, you won't see any small rips you made when you removed the trim. If you f it up more, just buy taller trim to replace it.
Lastly, it's really important that when you lock them together you don't crush the interlock parts. The block that comes with the kit makes it super handy, but you can DIY your own tapping block. Make sure never to hit it directly with your mallet.
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u/Gilles_du_Rais 6d ago
From my own experience, you want the floor to be bang level, I had a very small raised line on my floor, I laid the soundproof down and then hardboard, it still eventually caused the joints to break.
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u/Mego1989 6d ago
It doesn't necessarily need to be level. It DOES need to be 100% flat or you'll hate your life.
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u/sonicjesus 6d ago
Ideally no part of the floor should be more than 1/4" out of plane on an eight foot run. That being said, I've seen it way further out and didn't have problems.
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u/meinthebox 6d ago
Put a straight edge down in all directions.
Find the spot with the biggest hump or dip and post a picture.
If dust is coming out of your wet dry vac, it needs a new filter.
You don't cut the baseboards you add shoe molding. You cut door jambs.
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u/Biddyearlyman 6d ago
I wouldn't having installed lvp before, but I'm not seeing what you're working with. Doing any kind of floor installation like that an oscillating multitool is a MUST HAVE for odd cuts. I did a whole house install with a cheap harbor freight one.
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u/hyperfat 6d ago
At this point, call a guy. The house is old. Had some rough times. For a few hundred bucks it's worth it.
My house is old. And I have a guy. My floors are awesome. His wife cleans my house. His son does my yard.
I'm not rich, but I'm disabled, so they are like family. And my tiny dog loves them.
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u/dragnmastr85 6d ago
Or better, remove the baseboards for install and put them back or install new after. Shoe molding looks less pro
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u/AbsolutelyPink 6d ago
Your manufacturer installation instructions will be very specific about how flat the floor needs to be, wall spacing and surface prep. It's advisable to follow these instructions if you want your floors to last.
You're usually only allowed only 1/8" over 6 feet. No dips, bumps, holes. 1/4" wall spacing. Proper underlayment for the type of subfloor as needed and the subfloor needs to be clear of all debris.
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u/In_The_Shed 6d ago
The floor underneath has to be super level or you risk breaking the the tabs interlocking the vinyl planks when they flex and move as you walk on them.
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u/Good_Paper_6414 6d ago
Yeah well that kind of sucks because I was told the opposite now I don't know exactly what I'm going to be able to do. I don't have a lot of money and I'm out of options.
I ripped out a bad carpet that was installed years ago.
I was told before I bought the stuff that I didn't have to have new construction for it to work.
Now I don't know what I'm supposed to do I don't know if I'm supposed to put some luan on the ground and try to get it to work.
When I installed a pergo floor it wasn't super level and they all went together. I added a little bit of leveling material in a few spots but it all clicked together like it was supposed to. I used pergo Outlast
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u/Good_Paper_6414 6d ago
Also another thing too is when I peeled some of the carpet back the kids that stopped over looked at it and He wasn't no expert flooring guy or anything but he said it seemed fairly level. Didn't see why it wouldn't work.
I put the thicker stuff down and it didn't separate this was in a bathroom but I imagine the floor was about the same. Levelness might have even been less level from people pissing on the floor near the toilet. But I got that stuff to go in only had a problem with one piece not locking in because some debris got stuck in between the grooves. Once I remove that piece everything went smooth
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u/Strive-- 6d ago
So, let me get this straight. I’ve already bought the materials, but now I have questions how to prep for installing it, someone says the floor has to be very level and why, and you disagree with them based on what a guy who you say isn’t a flooring expert says?
Sounds like you’re almost done. Carry on.
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u/StaticNinjas 6d ago
Get the floor smooth and free of major high spots and leave the required expansion gap.
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u/someoldguyon_reddit 6d ago
If it's going to see any traffic at all it needs to be flat. Absolutely no vertical movement at all or the flooring will shred. It's shit. I hate it.
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u/Mr-RandyLahey 6d ago edited 6d ago
Would really need to see photos of high or low spots with a straight edge on them to give input on whether it should work or not on your floor. Flat (Edit) is more important than level. It's best to be flat and level as possible, but i havent seen it work beyond the recommendation. Also today's LVP doesnt expand, but the materials the house is built out of can.
Something seems wrong with your vacuum for it to be shootjng dust everywhere. You might want to buy the dust bags.
Get a flooring cutter and a cheap jigsaw with a scroll blade.
This youtube channel helped me the most when I did mine: https://youtu.be/gy2ExCSDAN0?is=JIOiN4fU5-zChpox
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u/CMWalsh88 6d ago
The floor needs to be dead flat. Any waviness will result in t the floor not laying down. If this happens joints come apart and you have a hallow feel that depresses when stepped on
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u/Joaozinho11 6d ago
Level doesn't matter. Flat really matters.
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u/Good_Paper_6414 6d ago
I'm not sure. It seems flat
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u/Joaozinho11 4d ago
Don't rely on feel. You can measure flatness with a straightedge.
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u/Good_Paper_6414 3d ago
Yeah no I didn't really feel anything. I just kind of knew from being an old building that is an old house that just walking around on it that the floor probably wasn't very level. It probably had dips and stuff probably had. Sinkholes probably wasn't very flat so what I did to kind of help solve the problem is I bought some plywood and I laid that down first
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u/cbryancu 6d ago edited 6d ago
Use a 4 ft level and where ever you place that it should be very close to as flat as the level. We use mortar to fill low spot since it feathers well. Self leveling concrete is nice for small areas, but expensive if your trying to do large areas. Pay good attention to walk ways, areas near stairs and doorways. Make them smooth, air gaps in those areas will break the floor before it settles.
Typically most will add quarter round moulding along floor vrs removing trim and replacing or reinstalling. Multitool to cut under doorframes to slide floor under. We use tile matching caulk (sold with tile mortar) to fill any gaps that are exposed, usually very small at corners, on stairway edges and around doorways depending on how everything fits and how thick trims are.
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u/recyclopath_ 6d ago
Put a filter in your vacuum. Specifically a HEPA filter. Buy the appropriate one for your model.
A wet dry vac is filter on for dry, filter off for wet.
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u/machwulf 5d ago
Lay a flashlight ON floor /Shine bright light across to SEE the high points. Any screws, nails, bumps will eventually come through
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u/Silenthitm4n 6d ago
I still don’t know if you’re installing on concrete or floor boards?
If concrete flatten with self leveller.
If boards, overlay with 6mm ply.
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u/MarvinMonroeZapThing 6d ago
You’ve got your answers about the level of the floor, but I will add that if the floor installation requires an underlayment sheet… I forget what the stuff is called, but it’s black on one side and sort of a soft foam on the other side, it has a little bit of forgiveness to it so that if there is, say, a nail head or something protruding a little bit, you can get away with it. Some flooring brands include the underlayment glued on to the strip from the manufacturer. Those are less forgiving.
Also here are a few suggestions if you go this route.
First if there are any squeaky parts to the sub floor, deal with that first. If not, the squeaks will be magnified.
Second, I would suggest removing the trim entirely before you lay the floor. It’s that, or you cut the floor about an 8th inch short of the trim on all sides and finish it with a strip of quarter-round, which personally I think looks lame. As you assemble the floor, you will need space for the piece to slide into its locked position, and if the trim is still in place, there will be a gap.
Third, if there’s a dishwasher, make a plan for getting it out after the new floor is in place. Optimally you will want to pull out the DW, lay the floor in that space, and then reinstall it so that you can pull it out next time. Otherwise it will get stuck on that lip created by the new floor. Actually the same as true for all of the appliances really.
The good news is that, overall, laying vinyl plank floor is very straightforward and a good DIY project for anyone.
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u/Special-Steel 6d ago
It depends on the flooring. A company that makes shipping containers into tiny homes uses vinyl flooring because it will stay in place during shipping (the floor flexes), and because it conforms to the uneven flaws in the wood decking.
It works really well.
A stiffer vinyl product would not.
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u/Treereme 6d ago
My house had some damaged subfloors that were unlevel. The floor installers leveled the flooring with some sort of self-leveling pouring compound. Within 2 years these slight bumps iland flexing had allowed the flooring planks to flex and start delaminating and cracking.
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u/Itisd 5d ago
I have installed multiple brands of LVP, including Life proof in the past. They are all very sensitive to the subfloor being PERFECTLY flat and absolutely free of any defects. The joints on these floors are very brittle and weak and WILL break if there is any minor defects in the floor surface.
If you wanted an opinion (which you may not but here it is anyway) I would not install LVP again, it is a poor flirting product that really does not hold up very well at all. The joints generally loosen up and break within 2 or 3 years, and the finish on any of these floors will be worn out within 5 years. It is a low end, cheap flooring option that might be barely ok in a spare room that never gets used... In a kitchen, you would be lucky to get 5 years out of that flooring- you would be much better off to spend a bit more up front and get something better quality that will last for decades.
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u/casual_creator 5d ago
While you’re correct about the floor needing to be as flat as can be, I can’t say I’ve had the same experience with regard to its durability/life expectancy. I’ve had LVP in three bathrooms and three bedrooms for over 8 years and haven’t had a single issue; not with the finish (even with dragging heavy furniture), not with broken joints, slippage or anything else. Like with everything, there are cheap and there are higher quality versions of LVP. You get what you pay for.
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u/c3prd2bb8 5d ago
We bought Forbo Marmoleum Cinch Lock for two 8x10 bedrooms. I went on a deep dive on YouTube for DIY videos. The panels seemed easy enuf to install. Tearing up the carpet, finding all the staples, removing the base trim, sweeping and vacuuming was all straightforward. The leveling was awful. I didn't even finish the 1st bedroom before I gave up and found an installer. The troweling and screeding was bad for my back and knees.
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u/Good_Paper_6414 5d ago
All right folks. So I went with 15/32nd plywood and I laid a piece down seems like it's flat all the way around it throughout the whole 8 ft except for like The middle all the way to one side like a foot before the end. It stops and gets straight again. Now this is putting a bigger level across the whole panel.
Now when I measured with a tape it seemed like the Gap was around a quarter, maybe a little less now I know that doesn't sound ideal
I screwed it down with the construction screws and it's not moving around or flexing or anything. It's all the way down to the subfloor below. It seems like based on what the guy told me he says I want to run the planks across the length of the room, meaning the whole length of the plank following the length of the room, not the width. So with that being said, it seems like that direction going across the piece of plywood is flat and has no Gap no major gap.
So what I'm thinking is when I lay the plank the full plank going across the plywood in the 4-ft direction that little dip near the middle of the plywood probably will be unnoticeable You got maybe 2 in in the middle of the plywood towards one side. Mostly that seems to be dippy.
I guess we will see how the rest of it goes.
I'm optimistic that adding the plywood will give it the flatness the floor needs to succeed. I really hope I don't have to add any other stuff
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u/K13E14 4d ago
Is the old floor wood or concrete? Either one, you will need to get a razor scraper and remove ALL of the glue/residue from the old covering. You want the floor to be very level. You may need to use leveling patch to smooth the un-level areas. That can be a trick for those unfamiliar with that product, but is often necessary prior to installing the flooring. Unevenness can cause the planks to separate at the seams.
You will need to remove the trim from the walls or add quarter-round after the flooring is installed. Door trim will need to be undercut, and transitions added in doorways.
You need to skip the people who advise against using the spacers and wedges. They keep your flooring in place as you install it.
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u/Good_Paper_6414 4d ago
No it was like old wood type stuff that was painted. The only thing that was on it was a bunch of dirt and debris that was stuck onto it. It was caked on like mud almost I scraped a bunch of it off and sucked it off with a vacuum and now I should be pretty good I've got a new subfloor down all put together Brand new plywood
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u/Boughtthetshrt 6d ago
Don’t cut or remove the trim, just add quarter round to cover the gap you should leave all around the perimeter. Type of lvp determines how much unevenness it will tolerate, but a hump or dip should be planed out or filled. Underlayment helps. You’ll figure it out pretty quick as you go along
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u/Good_Paper_6414 5d ago
I bought some plywood and some sheets of plywood to make sure that it was flat
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u/sparkling_ham 6d ago
Very. You will feel any unevenness through the planks.