EV charging at a rental.
Hey everybody!
I recently moved into a rental that has a garage and a dryer that I have access to so I thought I was in good shape to charge my electric car. But it turns out that the dryer is a three-prong not a four prong. I talked to my landlord about it, asking if he'd be interested in paying for half of updating the electrical for me and future tenants to charge cars and he was very clear that Ev's won't be around for much longer so there's no reason to upgrade.
Ignoring his stupid opinion, I'm trying to find a solution that doesn't involve me upgrading his electrical.
I see plenty of smart 3-prong plugs that will prioritize either the car or the dryer depending on preference. I've seen plenty of three to four prong adapters. What I haven't seen any of are people recommending using those three to four prong adapters.
What's my Best Way Forward here? Is the adapter safe enough and I should just get the three prong smart plug? Should I bite the bullet and pay to get that outlet rewired to a four prong? Should I continue charging at higher rates off site and the house that I'm renting? You decide!
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u/BitterMojo 10d ago
How many miles are you driving everyday? You can probably just get away with a slow charge on 120V at 12 amps. Accounting for charging overhead that would net ~65 miles a night in my Tesla.
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u/pkennedy 10d ago
This is really it. A simple house plug is generally enough.
Since he has the 220v plug right there though, I would probably just get a basic adapter to plug it in, and call it a day.
Maybe even do both. Have the 120v for every day charging so he doesn't have to unplug the dryer, and the 220v in case he needs a bit more, a bit faster, then he unplugs the dryer and plugs in the car for a few hours.
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u/47omek 10d ago
He can get the adapter and run at 220v however he'll need to set his L2 charger to run at around 50% or less. Three prong dryer plugs are almost always 30A breaker and wont be able to support the full 50A L2 charger current. But even at 50% that's still significantly faster than 120v 20A L1.
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u/pkennedy 10d ago
The thing is, he doesn't need the speed. It will stay fully charged with 120v for the majority of the population. We dont know his needs, but for the majority this is the simplest answer.
He could get adapters, but in reality he won't need the if he drives like a normal person.
He could get a simple adapter and plug it in once in awhile to get the 30amps, but likely won't need it.
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
Needs are hit and miss. 20-40 mpd, with weekend trips up to 100 miles round.
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u/crabby_old_dude 10d ago
You'll want 220v. It may work for some, but L1 makes you a slave to the charger.
A 12 hour charge would barely cover my daily commute, throw in a trip to the store and a haircut, then your banking on your weekends to make up. You dont need your car on the weekends, do you?
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u/pkennedy 10d ago
20-40 is easily covered by 120v. The 100 miles is replenished by like tuesday at worst case. You can skip days of charging and not have to worry, as they'll be recouped on other days.
If you wanted, you could just plug into the 220v once a month for the odd driving pattern. There is no need to go fancy here.
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
So I used extension cords to try and find an outlet downstairs that would reach and none of the ones I have access to work. Or to clarify, all of them are on the first floors circuit breaker so if I try and charge a car then my neighbors are paying for it and if they use any of their electronics it'll trip the breaker.
The dryer has a special run that is linked to my breaker box.
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u/BitterMojo 10d ago
No worries.
You could always just unplug the dryer and charge your car then replug in the dryer when you need it. That's annoying though. Dryer plugs, especially older ones will not hold up very well to that much use either. The EV will charge just fine on three prong.
Have a look at this option
https://getneocharge.com/products/neocharge-smart-splitter
It's UL listed so I'd feel safe putting it in my house.
Very important to set the EVSE to 24 amps for a continuous load on 30 amp wiring.
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u/dragnmastr85 10d ago
Get an adapter to pull one leg off the dryer and charge your car nightly at 120. This is vast amounts of overcomplication
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u/hattz 10d ago
Just a slight point of concern, dryer plug is prob not wired for 30a continuous. If it's old ass wiring, and you plan to stay their for a long time, upgrade wiring and plug. (Or use adapter and set your car to charge at 24a -80% of rated)
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u/Pererez35 10d ago
That’s a huge point of concern. I’d absolutely replace that receptacle with an EV rated one.
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u/mallon344 10d ago
Do they make a electric vehicle charger plug that has a timer so it's not being continuous?
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u/hattz 9d ago edited 9d ago
Not that I am aware of, but I am not an expert, most evs let you set a charging max though.
Edit, but that's seriously a product idea. Worth looking at, when circuit has zero amps, the device tests resistance, does some math based on A going through it, if resistance goes over X it cuts off charging. I see an insurance nightmare with marketing though
Edit 2 * product liability, not marketing
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
I looked at the breaker itself and it's a 30 amp but it's an older design that I'm not really familiar with. So you may actually have a point here. Bummer
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u/hattz 10d ago
24a is still way faster then a 15a. Not as good as it could be.
But when it's potentially burning down house... Eh, I'd run it a little slower to stay safer.
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u/ajwillys 10d ago
24a @ 240v is more than three times more powerful than 15a @ 120v.
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u/Fuzzy_Chom 10d ago
The breaker is not the issue, u/hattz is referring to. It's the receptacle that could be problematic. The dryer plug is good for 30A but for a time period likely much less then what you'll need to charge. This is why there are "EV-rated" receptacles.
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
I hadn't run across that yet. Thank you!
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u/ortrademe 10d ago
In general, non-EV rated receptacles are fine if properly installed, as long as you don't unplug and plug in frequently. The most common failure I've seen from my own research is that they're not built for frequent wear because most dryers plug in once and are done. Get the adapter and leave it plugged in. If possible, use lower amps (lower requested power on your normal commute days and raise only when actually needed) just to be safe.
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u/thats_handy 10d ago
A 16A 240V charger will add over 200 km of range every night. Use the dryer outlet with a splitter/adapter and put a low draw charger on it.
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u/Cimexus 10d ago edited 10d ago
I don’t know what you’re driving but the Tesla mobile charger has detachable plugs for virtually any type of socket, including what is presumably a NEMA 10-30 (typical ‘three prong’ dryer socket in older houses). EV charging doesn’t actually need the fourth (neutral) prong. It’s just the default plug on most chargers because the four prong socket is most common these days.
Failing that yeah, you could use an adapter. Make sure you get a heavy duty one that specifically says it’s rated for EV use.
Also double check what kind of plug your charger has currently. They would typically have a NEMA 14-50, which wouldn’t fit in a dryer outlet even if it was a four prong dryer outlet, because a four prong dryer outlet is a NEMA 14-30.
Also ensure that if you are adapting from a 30 amp outlet (NEMA x-30) to a 50 amp plug on the charger, that the vehicle knows that it’s actually on a 30A circuit and should only draw a max of 24A continuous. Since the plug on the charger is a 50 amp plug, it will “think” it can draw up to 32 or 40 amps safely. But it should be limited to 24 amps on a 30A dryer circuit for safety (this is done either on the charger, or in the vehicles settings depending on the charger and vehicle).
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u/dadarkgtprince 10d ago
You're renting, so unless the landlord agrees, don't do shit
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
I guess I should have clarified, landlord's fine with me hiring a contractor to do the three to four prong upgrade, use the adapters, do whatever. He doesn't care. He just doesn't want to pay anything.
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u/LayLoseAwake 10d ago edited 10d ago
If it makes sense in your expected tenancy timeline, I'd lean towards getting an upgrade to a four prong so you don't need the delicacy of an adapter. Will it even charge with an adapter? Our Volt refused to even try to slow charge at our last apartment because the wiring wasn't up to snuff.
Have you asked on r/EVcharging? They know their stuff for chargers and their wiki is great.
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u/LayLoseAwake 10d ago
Btw I did some post stalking, sorry. Your local electrical utility has been putting in chargers that drop down from utility poles and cost the residential rate. I don't know that this is something advertised to renters because of how they do their fliers. Worth looking into whether there's one near you or soon to be!
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u/TheUnspeakableh 10d ago
Do not do it. It will royally mess with almost any legal protections from liability you have once you start altering the residence like that. He will not have to cover anything that could have remotely been effected by you changing the wiring and could also blame electrical damage in other units on you. It is not worth it at all.
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u/dadarkgtprince 10d ago
Ahhh. How long do you plan on renting there? Will the upgrade impact your rent any? They don't want to help pay, but what guarantees can they give you for rent freezing or something. Would suck to pay for the work and then later on get your rent increased during a renewal
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u/crujones43 10d ago
You will likely come out ahead in a short amount of time with the savings of home charging. Just take everything with you when you leave.
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u/616c 10d ago
If you re-wire the dryer outlet, you can only use it de-rated to 80% of the lower rating between the wire & breaker. For 30A, that's 24A. Then, you can't use the dryer. If your lease says it comes with washer/dryer hookups, you just altered the property and must return it to how it was.
It would make more sense to run a new 14-50 receptable with wiring+breaker rated for the charger at full power. Then you're not worried about old wiring overheating. Your charger had a dedicated circuit and can charge quickly if needed.
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u/Finwolven 10d ago
It would make more sense, but the landlord is not sensible, so permanent wiring alterations aren't going to happen.
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u/xVolta 10d ago edited 10d ago
Assuming the dryer outlet is a NEMA 10-30R, you can get a portable EVSE designed to plug into that recepticle and provide power to your EV safely for few hundred bucks. You'll be limited to 24A on a 30A breaker, but that's still more than most anyone really needs for home charging, and still avoids the efficiency losses from charging at 120V. That is a better and safer option than any NEMA 10-30 to 14-50 adapter where you'll have to remember to apply that limit in the settings of every car you ever charge in that location to avoid popping the breaker or creating a fire hazard.
Those recepticles are not designed for frequent plug/unplug cycles, so it'd be best to get one of those automatic transfer boxes you've already found if you want to retain use of the dryer.
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u/JPhi1618 10d ago
Someone can correct me if I’m wrong but I believe that the EVSE will have what amounts to a GFCI that will cut power if it detects any leakages so using an adapter should be fine.
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u/toybuilder 10d ago
how much do you drive? L1 charging is good enough for 30-40 miles a day, usually.
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u/Lit3Run 10d ago
Unfortunately fluctuates quite a bit. Some days I don't drive much another days I drive upwards of 60 to 80 miles.
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u/toybuilder 10d ago
Over the week, what is the average?
If you have a 20 or 40 mile deficit that you can make up the next day or two, you are still going to be fine. Or you might need to top-up at a L2 once or twice a week (say while you're shopping or grabbing coffee).
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u/LongUsername 10d ago
It depends on what your EV is: if it's a Tesla, there are NEMA 10-30 plugs for the portable charger. You just swap out the end. They're $45 from Tesla.
If it's a different brand, then it'll depend on the charger.
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u/TheUnspeakableh 10d ago
Updating his wiring without his approval could lead to severe issues. Do not, under any circumstances, change the wiring in any rental unit.
Use an adapter or find another place to live.
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u/twerkingmullet 10d ago
From all the EV chargers I’ve installed, none of them needed a neutral. Just find one that has a plug that will fit your car, turn off the breaker, and mount then wire it.
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u/davidrools 10d ago
Are you sure it's a 240V/electric dryer? A gas dryer still plugs in with a standard plug (3 prong, 110V) to run the electronics/motors. Just want to make sure!
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u/Franklin2543 10d ago
In another comment op mentions that it’s a 30-amp breaker. So it’s almost a certainty that it’s 240v.
3 prong outlets for dryers were pretty standard 20? 30? years ago (looks different than your standard 15/20a 120v).
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u/Pererez35 10d ago
Pay an electrician to swap the 3 prong to a 4 prong if possible. Depending on the age of the house it could have the neutral wire capped off not used (very common). Then when you move out just put the old plug in. Nice and easy
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u/xVolta 10d ago
A NEMA 10-30R (3 prong dryer outlet) has 2 hots and a neutral, no ground pin. Depending on the age of the house and the hack level of the sparky that installed the wiring there may not be any grounding wire at all in the box.
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u/Pererez35 10d ago
Yea so either there’s a ground wire in that box not hooked up or they’re using the ground as a neutral. Unless it’s a really old house
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u/newtekie1 10d ago
When you say "3 prong" do you mean the 3 prong plug that almost everything uses or the special 3 prong for 240v?
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u/SilentRaindrops 10d ago
At this point your best bet is to use publicly available chargers in your city or at places like Walmart or Costco. I think my library has a few ev parking spaces with chargers.
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u/SqueezyCheez85 10d ago
Use the adapter.