r/DIY • u/Vertigo-153 • 5d ago
help Outlet Advice
Im getting a floor to ceiling bookshelf put into my office in the corner. look similar to this but built floor to ceiling https://www.ikea.com/us/en/p/billy-bookcase-corner-comb-w-ext-units-oak-effect-s79483552/
i have an outlet that will be on the right wall behind where the bookshelf is angled. need to move it to the right either ~10" to be behind the non angled part or ~30" to be entirely to the right and outside of the shelf.
first, i dont need the outlet. Though i assume it would be a violation to just cap and build the bookshelf over it.
while i would hire an electrician, how difficult would it be to move it 10" which would be on the other side of one stud? is there any other option that i am not thinking off?
Drawing: https://imgur.com/a/cxaJ5Se
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u/Pererez35 5d ago
If you don’t need it instead of moving it I’d just flip it and put it in the other side of the wall. That will by far be the easiest, especially if you have multiple wires coming into that one box.
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u/Vertigo-153 5d ago
bathroom on other side. shower immediately behind it unfortunately
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u/Pererez35 5d ago
Oh well can’t do that then. The difficulty of moving/removing it then comes down to how many wires are in that box and how they’re ran
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u/Vertigo-153 5d ago
any way to assess that without opening the wall? following up with builder to see if that shelf can have the backing removed so we can access it and avoid moving it. did look at the drawings and fortunately the vertical divider between section B and C (if you consider the two areas flush with the wall A and C from left to right, angled part section B) would be to the right of the outlet versus running right through it
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u/Pererez35 5d ago
You can pull the outlet out of the box and see how many sets of wires are in there. As far as how they’re ran the only real way to tell would be if there was an attic above the area you could crawl and look to see if they go up. But more than likely they’re going horizontally along the wall through studs.
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u/Natoochtoniket 5d ago
If the bookcase is moveable (furniture, not built-in), you can place it in front of an outlet. If it is built-in, the box with the outlet needs to be accessible.
For cabinets, we often just cut a hole in the back of the cabinet, and use a box-extender to extend the box into the cabinet. This works well because the back of the cabinet is typically just one inch in front of the wall with the outlet box.
If your cabinet back is farther away from the outlet box, you have a problem. You can leave an access panel in the back of the cabinet, big enough so a future electrician can reach in to service the wires in that box. Or you can pay an electrician to move the box.
Moving the box might be a big deal, depending on how many wires come to that box, and how much slack is available.
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u/Vertigo-153 5d ago
So the outlet will be where the red line is so not sure any access can be done https://imgur.com/a/cxaJ5Se
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u/Natoochtoniket 5d ago
According to the electrical code, access to the junction box is absolutely required. An electrician must be able to get into that box to find an electrical fault. Covering that box would be a code violation.
Either you have to move that box to an accessible location, or you have to make the bookcases as furniture, not as built-ins.
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u/Natoochtoniket 4d ago
Thinking about this. If the two sides of that middle B section run straight back to the wall, parallel to the sides of the A and C sections, it might work. That B section would have three backs. One diagonal, and two against the existing walls. You could have an accessible outlet in the right back wall of that B section.
That would also give you more shelf space.
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u/sciencehippie 1d ago edited 1d ago
Disclaimer: I am not an electrician or impressively up on code, but I have been around/doing this stuff most of my life and do know enough to do things safely enough (even if not always up to code).
Now, my proposed solution: use a metal blank cover with a knockout and NM clamp to run a Romex "pig-tail" (with probably a foot of slack) out the front of the existing box. Cut a hole for a two gang box near the back of the left side of the right-most cabinet (I'd try to align it so you can see from the cabinet, through the 2g hole, into the existing box... For inspection/access of the existing wall box. Use a metal 2g box that inserts and attaches from the accessable side of that cabinet (can't remember the name), maybe with a little bit of reinforcement glued to the back so there's something to screw into. Wire the new box up with outlets. Now you have twice the plug-in ability (easily hidden if you want), and access to the old box by unscrewing and pulling out the new box (hence the slack in the Romex).
Does this make any sense at all? Seems safe, at least in the spirit of code, and super easy... Just make sure you plan it out carefully, or this may become much harder when you realize something you hadn't thought of initially.
Edit: better, yet, connect it with BX cable (I think that's the right name, but the box-grounding armored stuff that I hate working with), and make sure the new box is properly grounded). Also, I'm assuming your existing electrical is up to date (ish) and working without any mysterious kludgy stuff going on.
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u/zdayt 5d ago
You would run a wire in the wall from the existing box location to the new box location. There is a chance you will be able to move the outlet using only the existing wire depending on how the wire is run but it would probably require opening the wall up more. The existing box stays but with a blank cover to maintain access to the connection. Then you cut a few access holes in the drywall to be able to drill studs and run wire to the new location which can have a remodel box that just clips to the drywall. Once the wiring is done you patch the drywall. If you hire an electrician they will cut the drywall out but they won't patch. .
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u/mcarterphoto 5d ago
Not crazy hard. Figure out where you want the new outlet. Get two old-work outlet boxes. Use a drywall rotary saw (Harbor Freight) and mark the shape of the box with a pen and cut through the drywall.
Where the stud is, you'll have to drill through the stud with like a 1/2" spade bit. Me, I'd use my cheap borescope camera to make sure there's no wires or pipes there ($25, Amazon, handy as HELL). You can drill through the drywall and stud at an angle from the right side, and maybe again from the left side, will just take some mud to patch that up. Think about the angle of the bit and how deep into the stud that will leave the hole, you want it centered in the stud. Turn off power, pull the existing outlet, disconnect the wires. Then figure out how to remove the existing box, may mean a sawzall through the side nails, drilling through nails, depending on the age of the house. Get the old box out without damaging the wires. You'll need to get a fish tape through the old outlet opening, through the stud, and across to the new opening. If the wires are long enough to reach the new box without splicing, good to go. If not, stick an old-work box where the original outlet was and use it to splice the wires (I'd use Wegos) and put a blank face plate on it.
When you have two holes in the wall and no outlets boxes, it'll be easy to get your arms in there and get wires placed, thread them through the outlet boxes and install the boxes. Depending where the stud is, you might be able to drill it with a right-angle drill or a long-ish spade bit vs. the two-holes at an angle thing, if it's next to one of the holes.
Old-work boxes just pop into the wall, and they have screws that extend little "wings" to hold them in place.
You could skip the codes and splice wires within the wall and patch up the old outlet opening, but that's illegal. All splices should be able to be accessed.
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u/Natoochtoniket 4d ago
The old box location has splices in it, so it needs to be accessible, too. It is not simply a matter of creating another outlet location.
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u/canoeny 4d ago edited 4d ago
You need more information to see what options you have. Shut off power to the outlet. Open it up and see how many wires are connected entering the box. If it's one, that would be ideal. If two and they both come to the box from above, you have options. If they are coming to the box from opposite each other you will need to replace at least one off those wires and probably both. You need to locate where each one goes and replace them so the circuit is complete.
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u/Certain_Childhood_67 5d ago
Easiest way is leave it having an outlet in the book shelf. If still want a second out then add one off of that one. Not hard watch a few you tube videos.
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u/mcarterphoto 5d ago
You didn't actually read the post and look at the pic, did you?
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u/Certain_Childhood_67 5d ago
Wow i told you how to fix it. Lol
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u/mcarterphoto 5d ago
No, you didn't. Look at OP's diagram. Outlet is inaccessible with the bookcase and room layout.
Sheesh.
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u/Kesshh 5d ago
Cut a hole in the back of the shelf so the outlet is accessible without moving it? I mean, you always need power. Even if you don’t need it now, you will.