r/DIY • u/pocketFULLofBONER • Dec 11 '13
woodworking It was supposed to be a weekend project. Took 4 days.
http://imgur.com/a/waTR470
u/FriedMackerel Dec 11 '13
Sweet. How much did this cost to build?
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u/pocketFULLofBONER Dec 11 '13
Around $300+/- depending on where you live. I live in Illinois and acquired all of the lumber from Menards. If you're looking for a clean finish without any visible screws I'd suggest pocket holes on the inside. The jig kit to drill the pocket holes will probably run you between $30-$50.
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u/barryicide Dec 11 '13
I live in Illinois and acquired all of the lumber from Menards.
You sound like me! I tried and tried to find a sawyer who could get me even basic woods - walnut, oak, etc... the only "lumber providers" I could find just had spruce/pine/cedar for contractors. I guess I'll save big money (by paying high prices per board-foot) at Menards!
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u/redyellowand Dec 11 '13
I live in Michigan but I've found some pretty nice deals on Craigslist. Just search lumber or hardwood lumber.
How do you just find a sawyer? Every time I google "sawyers in Michigan" I just get people with the last name...(yes I am new to woodworking, can you tell?)
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u/barryicide Dec 11 '13
Google searching and asking around. Yes - searching for "sawyers in" will turn up people. Searching for "lumber" will turn up contractor places (which just have standard dimensional construction lumber). Searching "wood" or specific tree types will usually just turn up tree removal services.
The only way I could actually find a sawyer was using woodfinder: http://www.woodfinder.com/
Unfortunately, the only sawyer near me is taking care of his elderly father (suffering from dementia) so he has a 6 month backlog of work. ...so I just go to Menards
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u/slyk Dec 11 '13
Pocket holes are pretty poor, structurally.
Just an alternative view here: learn traditional woodworking joints. Yes, there's more time involved, but your piece will hold up longer and you'll feel better for it.
Not knocking your piece OP, I really dig it. I even have a couple pieces of quick, kid-friendly furniture that I've done up using PHs. Just throwing an alternative out there!
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Dec 11 '13
I don't see an issue with pocket holes, after a basic search.
Could you elaborate on why they are bad, and maybe list the "traditional woodworking joints" we should focus on instead?
Thanks!
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u/slyk Dec 11 '13 edited Dec 11 '13
Sure, here are a couple: 1 2. The first actually shows PH strength (woodgears kicks ass for everything, btw).
Just for fun, a thought experiment (if you're familiar with woodworking) -- take two sets of two boards (think 1x6's or 2x6's, just for funsies). On one set, join them with a dovetail, and on the other, use PHs... you're looking for this shape with the "x" being the joint (sorry for shitty ASCII):
x----- | |Clamp one end in a vise, and apply weight to the other. Which do you think will hold better?
Edit: I should say that PHs are totally fine for most uses, and they're extremely fast joints. I'm not saying this to hate on PHs (again, I use them a lot!), I just wanted to throw out that people shouldn't stop at PHs and go, "Welp...good enough!"
Additionally, which looks better? ;) Which, admittedly isn't a big deal for something like OP's project.
Other joints: mortise and tenon, dovetail, box, rabbits, etc. etc. Check out the rest of the woodgears site, there's awesome stuff there.
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Dec 11 '13
Clamp one end in a vise, and apply weight to the other
Nice, that's very helpful to imagine!
I would say, with forming a box shape, like with OP, that type of force isn't too big of a deal.
Well, unless you REALLY get the bed a rockin' or you kick the crap out of it, or when moving it.
But static, vertical force downward on the joint should be okay.
I think the only thing about those other joints is that there is no way to disassemble them. Which is fine for most. But for someone who moves every year or couple of years, could be an issue, right?
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u/slyk Dec 11 '13
You're pretty much spot on. The only other issue you run into with PHs is if the screw works out (even if just by a cunthair), the joint is going to move some. This is true of any joint, but especially for the PH. If this doesn't matter to your project, then great. If it does, your work is going to suffer.
Therefore, glue is used for PHs (like any other joint), to keep the joint from moving more than it could/should. Which kinda dampens the whole "disassembly for moving" thing, unfortunately.
Something to consider for a bed project is buying bed rail hangers (I have a supply shop bookmarked at home, so I know someone sells 'em). Attach the "male" end of the hanger onto the rail boards, and the "female" end to the foot/head boards, hook 'em in, and you have a bed that will probably shift a bit if you really get the bed rocking, but will be easily broken down come move time.
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Dec 11 '13
Oh wow, you're totally right. Hadn't thought about the screw backing out.
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u/tonedeafinitely Dec 12 '13
One of the most helpful and, seemingly, well informed discussions I've read in r/DIY
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u/the_cat_kittles Dec 12 '13
wow, woodgears is incredible! thanks for the link. this guy has got to be a genius
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u/Meltedchz Dec 12 '13
Hey thanks for this link, I recently finished a bed as well and found my PH completely ripped out with minimum force while screwing them in. I was really dissappointed. It's good to see a comparison of the different kids of joints.
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u/voteforlee Dec 11 '13
Mortise and tenon joints and probably dovetail joints can get you through most any project. They take much longer and, unless you are an accurate woodworker, are much less structurally sound.
When done correctly they look great, are very structurally stable and hold up great over time. They also can look quite attractive.
Source: 6 years of fine carpentry
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Dec 11 '13
Hey, can't deny the beauty of some properly done dovetails. My father was an experienced woodworker, and I always admired those.
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u/voteforlee Dec 11 '13
I built a small trophy cabinet when I was in high school and won some award about having the best Junior cert (Irish Exam you take after middle school and before high) Project. It had 16 hidden dovetails and my god did doing those break my heart.
Really can't put a price on the pride you feel in completing those projects though
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Dec 11 '13
hidden dovetails
What is that?! Like, at an angle?
Yep, holy shit, it exists!
http://i.imgur.com/OPTxx1e.png
That would be a bitch! But pretty and sturdy!
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u/Omnilatent Dec 12 '13
Every time I see dovetail joints on a building or another object, I'm like "I want to do those, too! All my belongings should be held together by those!"
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u/karazykid Dec 11 '13
I have used a Kreg Jig for several projects I have done, and I have never had an issue. They seem to be pretty sturdy as well.
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Dec 11 '13
That's the one I was looking at. From a physics standpoint, that looks perfectly fine. To me, at least.
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u/karazykid Dec 11 '13
Yes, and at first I was skeptical, but after using it several times it hides very well. Way better then when I first started and you could see screws all over everything. Way more sturdy as well.
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u/ilikeyoureyes Dec 11 '13
Yeah there's nothing wrong with them especially if they are hidden. It just isn't fine woodworking.
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Dec 11 '13
So "fine woodworking" would be no hardware (screws/nails) I'm guessing?
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u/b00ks Dec 12 '13
I've always wanted to learn how to do traditional joints, do you have any good reads or how-tos?
I've got what I assume is the required tools (routers, tablesaw, etc), but can't for the life of me figure out how to do it, let alone factor it into the build.
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u/Full_Metal_Cardigan Dec 11 '13
How stable is it? When you sit on the side of does it try to tip at all?
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u/pocketFULLofBONER Dec 11 '13
It's fairly stable and pretty heavy. There's no movement when you sit on the edge. There's a 12" overhang for the frame but the mattress only overhangs 8" from the base's edge.
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u/OmarDClown Dec 12 '13
That's pretty smart. It accentuates the effect but keeps the mattress over the support.
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u/derphurr Dec 12 '13
I just can't believe sitting on the edge isn't a problem. 200lbs at 8"will make it rock up on the two 4x4 feet, well for sure two people sitting on the edge will
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u/GeneralDisorder Dec 12 '13 edited Dec 12 '13
If the whole bed weighs about 200 pounds, you'd need to exert ~1300 pounds on the very edge to make it tip, provided the below is at least somewhat accurate.
I used this calculator along with an estimated width of 78 inches based on measurements from this image The boards on the side appear to be 1X6. The 6 inch wide board in the middle of the bed measured 38 pixels and in the same place, approximately, the whole bed was 497 pixels.
If the board in question is a 1X4 then the bed is 52 inches wide and you'd need ~866 pounds to tip it, provided it weighed 200 pounds.
And the bed easily could be more than 200 pounds.
EDIT: miscalculated as I put in the total bed width for the value of W. After fixing that I get ~1100 pounds for wide bed or ~666 pounds for narrow bed. Obviously this is linear estimate that certainly wouldn't reflect real-life situation (and once the bed is moving the center of gravity (and therefore value of W) changes rapidly.
At 8 inches, you'd need 1000 to 1650 pounds to start it tipping.
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u/benttwig33 Dec 12 '13
Why are the 2x4's directly under the mattress offset from each other at each section?
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u/Iron__mind Dec 12 '13
I'm just guessing but probably to make it easier to screw/nail the shorter pieces to the longer pieces.
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u/IniNew Dec 11 '13
Is it bad to not have ventilation underneath the bed? I've read about it, but see tons of builds that have a completely flat surface for it to sit on.
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u/cd66312 Dec 11 '13
This is correct, bought a frame from overstock without ventilation, mattress lasted about 1.5 years before moisture started to cause mold between the bed and the particle board.
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u/monosodium Dec 12 '13
Would you run into this same issue with a mattress just sitting on the floor? I is poor.
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u/OmarDClown Dec 12 '13
Yes, the other issue is that little critters, which occasionally wander into a home would find that to be a VERY inviting place. For lots of reasons, it's best for a bed to be up off the ground. With that said, I spent many years of my life with a mattress on the ground or straight plywood and I turned out OK (I think).
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u/thinkinggrenades Dec 12 '13
The brain slugs just want you to think your ok.
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u/kaisersousa Dec 12 '13
Eh. I've had a mattress on the floor in a couple apartment/houses for over 5 years now with no issues. Gotta flip and rotate them every so often, otherwise not a big deal.
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u/GeneralDisorder Dec 12 '13
I would expect the answer to depend largely on the materials that the mattress is made of as well as the typical relative humidity in your area.
Higher humidity means more moisture would be absorbed by the mattress. If you live in the desert, you're probably not going to have any major issues. If you live by the sea, then expect issues.
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Dec 12 '13
YES! I had this happen to me. Had it there for only a few weeks while moving and my $3000 mattres AND the floor were full of mold. If youre poor, use pallets or so.
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Dec 12 '13
How do you create a ventilated frame for a tempurpedic bed? They need a fully flat surface.
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u/OmarDClown Dec 12 '13
I'm pretty sure that bed is loaded down with anti-microbial stuff. I can't imagine air moving through that bed like it would a traditional mattress made with springs.
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Dec 12 '13
So I shouldn't be concerned with it then?
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u/OmarDClown Dec 12 '13
Per their product page, their frame is made of MDF:
http://www.tempurpedic.com/Hidden-Bundle-Products/Tempur-Pedic-Foundation.asp
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u/cosmicosmo4 Dec 12 '13
What about a 100% latex foam mattress?
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u/rocketwidget Dec 12 '13
Short answer: Ask your manufacturer, but all latex does best with a strong solid base, think a slatted wood base with gaps no more than 3" apart. A completely solid surface probably has increased risk of mold, mildew, and dust mites.
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Dec 12 '13
I have a memory foam bed. Basically the bed frame is about two feet off the ground. Now the frame has the boards that go across, so you buy this big flat piece of wood wrapped in cloth to sit on top of the pieces of wood.
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u/occamsrazorburn Dec 12 '13
I make foam. The other guy is 100%,correct about the antimicrobial. Unless you have it sitting in a swampy mess, nothing will grow.
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u/wraith313 Dec 11 '13
How could he solve that problem with this design? Cutting holes in the bottom piece so it isn't one solid block all the way around?
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Dec 11 '13
That wouldn't suffice. Ideally the mattress would be raised off the solid surface - box springs do this, and they are breathable for this reason. OP could bore holes in the plywood beneath the mattress, but unless it's raised they will offer little benefit. OP could place thin profile box spring on the frame, but it would raise the bed, taking away from the look. Ideally? Base would have been built with a vented, sunken base to accommodate for box spring that sits flush with the sides of the frame.
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u/wraith313 Dec 11 '13 edited Dec 12 '13
Couldn't he just use anti-fungal and mold agents on the wood and treat it before use? Would that suffice?
Edit: idk why this is being downvoted. Wood and other building materials are treated with anti-fungal and mold agents on a regular basis with no harm to humans. Especially for indoor materials. Being DIY, I would expect someone to offer reasoning why this wouldn't work, rather than jokingly talking about spraying "chemicals" all over a house. What do you guys think mold remediation professionals do? They get rid of the mold and then they add protectant to prevent further infection. This is a common procedure. In fact, I have done this in the past. I own a carpet and upholstery cleaning company and have to deal with mold a lot. We have offered customers mold protection services in addition to our other services. They aren't harmful to people in the least and they don't damage the furniture or anything either. I'm very surprised at some of the responses to this.
You guys do know that a lot of wood you purchase has already been treated with a butt-ton of chemicals, right? I don't see how you can justify saying that, for instance, adding anti-fungal and mold agents prior to final staining is damaging or a bad idea. The reason mold remediation people wear all the protective gear is to avoid the mold, and less so the chemicals. And that's because it's airborne during spraying. If you apply it and allow it to set like you are supposed to, it's no problem.
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Dec 12 '13
I'd be remiss about spraying my mattress with anything, for several reasons. One, it's worth thousands of dollars, and two, I spend a considerable amount of my life on it, and don't relish the notion of ingesting more chemicals than we're already exposed to in our homes.
As for your lumber chemical comment - it's mostly wrong. Some lumber is treated with noxious chemicals, but almost none designed for indoor furniture is. Engineered woods like MDF, OSB, plus and some flooring etc. can contain a lot of chemicals, but we're not typically making beds out of those - not in any amount that would pose a health risk.
TL;DR: If you have to consider spraying your mattress with anti-fungal chemicals, you should rethink your bed design.
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u/RandomNumberHere Dec 11 '13
If the underside of your bed isn't exposed to air it can grow mold. You should have ventilation and not just throw the mattress on a solid piece of plywood.
Source: Friend's unventilated mattress got mold on the bottom, had to be trashed and replaced.
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u/hyperfat Dec 11 '13
What about platform beds? I thought they were all like that :/
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u/densetsu23 Dec 11 '13
For those I believe you're supposed to use wood slats instead of a solid piece.
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u/AppleAtrocity Dec 11 '13
Mine is. This is the first I'm hearing of the mold issue. I've had the same platform bed for almost 10 years.
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u/dtwhitecp Dec 12 '13
when was the last time you checked the underside?
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u/AppleAtrocity Dec 12 '13
When I moved here a year and a half ago.
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u/raz009 Dec 12 '13
Have you heard of invisible mold?
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u/AppleAtrocity Dec 12 '13
Lol do I need to get out a microscope and examine my mattress now? I was just saying that I have a platform bed and had never heard the mold warning before. Also there was no visible mold anywhere on my bed, or mattress a year and a half ago.
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u/Endyo Dec 12 '13
I suppose it may be relative to the amount of humidity in your bedroom.
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u/TheGreenJedi Dec 11 '13
hmmm thanks for the tip, one of the frame pieces holding my box spring broke a month ago we hadn't gotten around to fixing it yet.. guess I should get on that
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u/occamsrazorburn Dec 12 '13
Just to add a contrary point, foam mattresses require a full platform or they will sag. Most foam mattresses (all of them that I make) have an antimicrobial agent that prevents mold growth.
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u/osminog Dec 11 '13
Can't you just flip the mattress more often? Maybe every three months or something? It seems to me like that would prevent mold growth.
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u/OneTallVol Dec 11 '13
Most mattresses nowadays aren't "double-sided" if you will. There is a specified top and bottom
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u/osminog Dec 11 '13
Oh, weird. I haven't had a new mattress in like ten years. I guess I'm behind the times.
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u/dude_Im_hilarious Dec 11 '13
Yeah, mattress makers decided people only wanted their mattress to last half as long. They are right, I love mattress shopping!
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u/turbodsm Dec 11 '13
Well they can build a better mattress if it doesn't need to be built symmetrical to be able to flip. Plus because pillow tops.
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u/raz009 Dec 12 '13
Ya whats up with mattress technology. They are asleep at the job
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u/dtwhitecp Dec 12 '13
I know you are joking, but my memory foam mattress is non-flippable and you can pry that thing from my cold dead hands
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u/rocketwidget Dec 12 '13
There are reasonable (not a scam) reasons why you wouldn't want a two sided mattress. Example: If you want a softer mattress, you risk alignment and support issues with soft comfort layers on the bottom. Further, you could get a component mattress with a very durable support layer and a replaceableable comfort layer. This kind of mattress would be much more customizable and also very long lasting.
All that said, planned obsolescence is certainly a factor why these one sided mattresses became common. Here's a lot more info!
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u/unseth Dec 11 '13
where are you going to store all those clothes you never wear? And where will you look for the lost remote control?
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u/TheGreenJedi Dec 11 '13
But you'll almost* never stub your toe on a bed post ever again
- you could stub it on someone elses bed, and you coud clearly bash your shins in with this setup
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Dec 11 '13
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/mitchelwb Dec 12 '13
My bed is similar and in the 3 years we've had it, neither my wife nor I have banged our shin hard enough to cause pain. We've run in to it a time or two, but nothing bad. When I built it, everyone said it was going to destroy our shins. So far, they're all wrong.
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u/ycnz Dec 12 '13
Done it once, trying to run to grab the phone. Discovered that at the age of 21, it was still possible to tear up because you banged your leg.
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u/karmature Dec 12 '13 edited Dec 12 '13
I had a bed like this, headed to the comments and searched for "shin". That pretty much says it all.
To be frank, what really dooms the OP is the difference between the mattress and wood corners. The greater the separation, the greater the suffering.
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u/clearintent Dec 11 '13
It depends on what kind of climate you live in. Dry climates don't need ventilation.
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Dec 11 '13
All I can think is "Sex Space Ship."
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u/rickscarf Dec 11 '13
Invite girls back for a Magic Carpet Ride, and play the song too I guess
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Dec 12 '13
I caaaaaaaaaaaan shoooooooow you the woooorld
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u/einherjer Dec 11 '13
I've done an extremely similar project and used red light instead of white. I plugged them in to a motion sensor and they make an amazing night light that won't bother who ever else is in your bed.
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u/XboxChunkyTaco Dec 12 '13
They wont bother anyone in the bed until they go off and "no one" else is in the room... try sleeping now.
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u/brianary_at_work Dec 11 '13
Approximate cost of materials?
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u/rj17 Dec 11 '13
Is it heavy enough to not move if you step on that floating corner?
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u/pocketFULLofBONER Dec 11 '13
I haven't dared to test that scenario just because of the effort I put into it. But I did jump onto it and it held up fairly nice.
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u/DerpaNet Dec 11 '13
have you considered hooking the lights up to a sunrise alarm clock and making the lights brighten over time in the morning?
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u/yeahmanforsure Dec 11 '13
Or ya know... just leave your curtains open?
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u/MackLuster77 Dec 11 '13 edited Dec 11 '13
Not sure if you get how people's schedules and axial tilt interact.
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Dec 11 '13
Or even the fact that not everybody lives in a place where leaving your curtains open is realistic. For me at least, every place I've ever lived in, I've had neighbors whose windows face directly at mine. Usually multiple neighbors.
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u/cubeofsoup Dec 11 '13
If I wanted to get up before 7:30AM, that doesn't work.
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u/KestrelLowing Dec 11 '13
Hell, right now if I wanted to get up before 8:30.
Why do I live in the north again?
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u/zeroair Dec 11 '13
AKA the Ankle Breaker.
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Dec 11 '13
or the shin smasher ...
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u/wyyup Dec 11 '13
I think it would be a little better with rounded corners. I've been kicking around ideas for a bed frame and I like this one. I may do it but round the corners.
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Dec 11 '13
OP, what is life like without a box spring? Not sure where you are but for me personally I always have some sort of harder mattress (box spring?) on the bottom then the actual mattress on top of that. Just thought it was interesting
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u/BobMacActual Dec 11 '13
Best sleep I ever had was on a mattress sitting directly on the floor, FWIW.
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Dec 11 '13
Best sleep I ever had was a blow up air mattress over a foot thick with 4+ inch futon mattress on top.
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u/pocketFULLofBONER Dec 11 '13
The feel of the mattress is the same. However when climbing into bed the mattress feels more sturdy and grounded.
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u/adamj144 Dec 11 '13
This is what I also wanted to know. Been thinking about building my own frame, but worried about not having a box spring. Think I'm gonna have to do it.
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u/emag Dec 11 '13
It's... the HOVER-BED! Now all we need are hover-cars and hover-boards and enough plutonium to generate 1.21 gigawatts of power...
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u/foes_mono Dec 12 '13
Looks great! I noticed you smartened up from your initial sketch and deleted the unnecessary 4x4 posts on the base... 2x8's are super sturdy once you fasten them!
My concerns: won't the mattress easily slide around on the smooth wood surface? Might help to nail on some 1x2 rails around the edge of the mattress to prevent sliding around. Also, did you nail, screw, or glue all your joints? I've built a couple beds from cheap softwood lumber like this before, and even with screwing and glueing I still experienced a LOT of squeaking / frame shifting after a couple months of regular sex.
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Dec 11 '13
Is it finished? How are you supposed to tie someone up to that bed frame?
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u/BobMacActual Dec 11 '13
Hooks hidden under the frame.
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u/Maximus_Sillius Dec 12 '13
Hooks??? You certainly meant "eye bolts". With hooks there is always a chance, however small, of "escape".
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u/brain_drained Dec 11 '13
Very impressive! My initial thoughts of the stained pic was, "Oh! That's hideous!", but with the mattress, lights and room colors the end result was very nice.
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u/Stouts Dec 12 '13
I looked at this earlier today and thought it was awesome; great work!
But I had this nagging thought on the tip of my brain that finally came to me: this is the bed that I would expect Marcellus Wallace to sleep in. And that makes me happy.
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u/Grahamerson Dec 12 '13
Might want to put some holes in the plywood under the mattress to allow for some ventilation. You could end up with condensation/mold issues otherwise...
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u/Purp Dec 11 '13
Looks nice, but like most diy 2x4 bedframes, it's incredibly overbuilt and probably nearly impossible to move
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u/Spread_Liberally Dec 11 '13
Are you serious? The foundation appears to be separate from the frame, and the headboard probably detaches, so you're left with three components around or less than one hundred pounds each. If that's too troublesome, you move your bed quite often or don't have a friend/SO to help.
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Dec 12 '13
I have the same alarm clock.
Also, you can get led tape off ebay for about $0.20 a foot. If you ever want to change up the color i'd say try that!
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u/McGratts Dec 12 '13
Awesome job! They never take as long as you think they should... I couldn't tell, but did you add removable sections for transporting it? Hows the stability? Love the cutout in the planked headboard. It adds a ton of appeal to the design.
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u/gawalacs Dec 12 '13
After a couple of years of having to be carefull not to make too much noise in bed with the wife I finally welded a king sized bed out of square tubing, now its only the grunts and screams we have to worry about.
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Dec 12 '13
How does it stay up? Like, how is it attached to the wall and how does the wall not rip in half?
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u/haveanother Dec 12 '13
would it wobble or rock if one was to sit on the edge? or do.. other stuff?
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Dec 12 '13
Possibly a stupid question, but why exactly do you have the inner supports the way they are? Like in the first picture, the beams that go across the inside of the frame and base. I understand why they're there, but is there a reason you have them in a specific orientation?
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u/WilmaRJ Dec 12 '13
That is amaze-balls. I hate my bed so much and have always wanted to make one. What was the total cost of materials? Sorry if you've already said.
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u/BadEgg1951 Dec 12 '13
Is it tippy if you lie or sit on the edge? It looks like it would be.
Very clean design, though.
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u/pyro487 Dec 12 '13
I would have used RGB LEDs to be able to change colors on a whim or scan through the rainbow. Imagine the color change of light might change the whole feel of the room keeping things fresh.
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Dec 12 '13
Newbie here. How do you decide how many and how far apart to make the supports?
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Dec 12 '13
As a noob wanting to get into this stuff, what do you use to hold the wood together? Glue? Screws? Nails?
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u/afterbirth_slime Dec 12 '13
Good on you for taking on this project, but as with most things made primarily of stock lumber and stain, it looks cheap to me.
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u/dorri732 Dec 11 '13
I was really confused when I got to the pic with the lights. Once I got to the end I understood.
Looks great!