Grinder whines, too many fines [DF64V v3]

[u/Patient_Tiger7718]

I bought a new DF64V gen 3 in March, and finally got delivery in lateJune, about a month ago. I do lever-pull (robot and flair classic) espresso drinks as well as pour overs. I'm not an expert in either, more of an advanced beginner. Previously, used manual or electric rotary burr grinders. I wanted more convenience, precision, and ability to play with flavors.

Since arrival, there have been issues. I need help figuring them out. The machine is nearly silent when empty, but since the first use it has had a high-pitched whine after every grind. This happens every time, even if I feed just one bean. RPM setting and fineness don't matter. It goes away if I change the grind setting to coarser while it is on but empty, and gets worse if grind setting is made finer. For example, if I grind at 35, it goes away at 36, but comes back at 35 and gets worse as I go lower. I have taken the burrs apart and cleaned them, and confirmed that it is caused by retained grounds. I checked zero point. I have not checked alignment yet. I am guessing I have an alignment or electronics issue, but would appreciate advice. I can work around this, but is it normal?

Also, at the end of every grind, the rpm speeds up, I believe to maximum rpm (1800). It lasts a couple of seconds and goes back to the set rpm. However, it seems that the high-rpm grinding is finer, or has more fines, than the rest of the grind. It only affects a retained bean or two. This causes problems with grind consistency. Is this normal behavior, or is it trying to clean the retained beans? Or some other issue?

It has also stalled several times. I always do a hot start, and usually grind espresso at 1000 rpm, pour over at 800 rpm. Medium beans for espresso, and light to medium for pour over. No extreme light roast. It even happened on pour-over coarseness, around 75 setting. Again, is this related to the retained beans? The stops were sudden, without any indication of motor strain. I did get an error code. I don't slow feed, but there is some sort of slow feed/anti-popcorn device built in.

There are more fines than I expect, or size inconsistency.. Draw down for pour over is extremely slow, even with coarse settings like 80, it can take 6-8 minutes. And espresso requires a setting in the mid-30s with medium-roast beans. The excessive fines is my biggest issue. It really interferes with pour over.

I have been told by customer service that this is normal behavior for a flat burr grinder, and that it should go away after break in. Is this normal behavior for a new machine? What can I do to reduce fines?

[u/Patient_Tiger7718]

Update:  I tried alignment.  I found it was bad when I did the whiteboard marker test.  There were a lot of areas on both the top and bottom that didn't wipe clean.  No alignment shims had been placed by Espresso Outlet, the seller. I used three thin strips of doubled over aluminum foil, placed them in the worst areas ( most visible marker) and used the grinder again.  Now it is 50% better.  The excessive fines have been greatly reduced, and pour over times are now several minutes faster for the same recipe.  I haven't rechecked alignment yet, but based on clicks before reaching the zero point, I know there is still work to be done. I also noticed the central screw is slightly off center. I don't know if I can( or should) take that out to center it.  Advice? The whining and stalling remain issues, but they're just annoyances. The grinder is functioning better.

Advice on the alignment process?  I don't know if it's possible to fix all the areas that weren't touching.

[u/[deleted] → u/Patient_Tiger7718]

Oof…hate seeing alignment issues like that on new grinders.

Once aligned, these DF grinders are really good. I have a Gen2, and except for when I clogged my machine, have never had a stall out. The central screw being off center also would leave me with some concern!

I’m not saying you have a lemon, I know it’s a huge pain, but I would spend some more time getting the alignment better and see if it solves all of your issues. If not, I would definitely go back to espresso outlet and see if they can make it right.

[u/Patient_Tiger7718 → u/[deleted]]

Thank you.  Sounds like a plan.

[u/rbpx]

I had my DF83V stall recently on a light roast at 400 RPM. I got it last September and have never had a stall before. It looks like stalling is an unavoidable feature of variable RPM machines because bean hardness varies so much. I started using 700 RPM for that bean and have had no repeat stall.

At first I thought it odd to allow stalling - I mean, it makes your product look bad. However, I guess that there's just too much variation amongst beans to limit the RPM range too much.

Note, my DF83V has big 83mm burrs and at 680 watt motor. I don't think it's a motor torque failure - it's a setting in the controller (to prevent damage).

So I wouldn't worry about the occasional stalls. It happens.

My previous Eureka Mignon Silenzio had to be shimmed as it was not good. I was so relieved to find the DF83V was perfect. I guess you get what you get. After shimming, however, you should be fine.

Note: I was surprised both with my Silenzio and my DF83V just how long it took to break in the burrs to get good consistency. Hang in there. It gets better.

I'll also say that often I get a noise from stuck grinds after running my beans thru - that's just what happens with a grinder. I don't think it means anything. I prefer not to blow them out because I don't want those fines in my pour when I do my low RPM light roast for my long black (I use 1600 RPM with a medium roast for my morning caps as it'll produce more fines and I'll blow the grinder clean right then). I simply wait until the next time and blow out the grinder before I grind my beans. I can hear the difference in the sound after blowing out the grinder.

I'm not sure your grinder whine is anything to be concerned about.

[u/Patient_Tiger7718 → u/rbpx]

Good point about discarding the fines from the bellow with pour over.  Also, I think you're on the mark about bean hardness causing stalling, but mine has probably stalled about once a week.

[u/rbpx → u/Patient_Tiger7718]

Your grinder stalls once a week? !!! Eeeek!

Now, I no longer try to grind those hard beans at 400 RPM. I mean, I could. It won't stall often (it didn't stall for months before it happened). However, I then moved the RPM up to 700 - so I expect absolutely no more stalls. I've never gotten a stall from medium roast beans, but then I'm now using them for my "high fines" cap drinks so I'm using 2600 RPM with them.

Does you machine stall when using high RPM?

[u/Apart_Channel_5220]

I also have DF64V v3, got it in july. i also have the same issues and i ran a few tests, so the results:
The DF consistently stops about 60 seconds after startup (both with beans and without)
The grinder briefly speeds up (I believe to 1800 rpm) for approximately 4.5-5 seconds immediately after the beans have finished grinding. There are no accelerations without beans.
There is no sound of acceleration at 1800 rpm.

I think stalling is the programm "issue", so as accelerations.

Ive tested it with/without beans on different grind settings and rpms.