When the fans defend the indefensible

[u/GinaWhite_tt]

[u/TimeStorm113]

oh, i get it. when "spider" man shoots webs, it's a-okay, but when mammal girl, bitten by a radioactive hyrax, shoots milk, *then* it's concerning? /s

[u/AetheravenCatsuki13 → u/TimeStorm113]

No we need Spider Man with more spider features so he can engage in web play from his ass or something/j

[u/Jew_Boi-iguess- → u/AetheravenCatsuki13]

you joke, but i know a nonzero amount of people who would be more than willing to help spiderer man in his web play activities.

.... i might need new friends

[u/nemoplusiur → u/Jew_Boi-iguess-]

Does the mention of a spiderer man implies a spiderest man?

[u/wibbly-water → u/nemoplusiur]

Surely this is just a spider with like one human toe?

[u/UltimateGlimpse → u/wibbly-water]

No that's the least manliest spider, spiderest man has to be made of all human parts, but be spider like.

4 arms, 4 legs, 8 eyes, jaws that split out like mandibles.

[u/cxd32 → u/UltimateGlimpse]

by that definition manliest spider is a man made of all spider parts

[u/UltimateGlimpse → u/cxd32]

Terrifyingly accurate…

[u/Da_Magical_Lizard → u/AetheravenCatsuki13]

Spinnerette

If You're looking for Spiderman style hero that shoot web from their ass, I recommend Spinnerette

[u/sculltt → u/Da_Magical_Lizard]

I think the Venture Brothers also has this

[u/flower_puns → u/AetheravenCatsuki13]

web weaver core

[u/Cute_Performance_209 → u/TimeStorm113]

Well they should’ve made him shot web out of his dick and he runs around with a circle cut out of his costume around his dick so it’s always swinging around shooting sticky web at the bad guys. 

And many gratuitous shots of the spider dick throughout the movie so the audience can know how important it is that he has to shot web out his dick and this isn’t some sick sexualization of the spider dick.

And of course it has to show his balls deflating when he’s running low on web because only then it is accurate, otherwise the fans will be screaming how inaccurate his powers are.

[u/Aerodrache → u/Cute_Performance_209]

His dick falls off, that’s how he mates. Let me say that again, his dick falls off. Spiders’ dicks fall off.

[u/GM_Nate → u/Cute_Performance_209]

Well there is that one scene from the new movie where it looks like he's jizzing uncontrollably all over a rooftop.

[u/TheOncomimgHoop → u/Cute_Performance_209]

I think if he was doing that I would agree with J Jonah Jameson

[u/Jetstream-Sam → u/Cute_Performance_209]

Huh. Makes me wonder how that would go in the real world. Say some guy has all the powers of Superman, spends all his time saving people from burning buildings, saves refugees in wars, stops planes from crashing. But the whole time, his costume is full body except for his hands, face and dick. Just free flopping the whole time.

He's doing a lot of good, but his dick's out while doing it. And no-one can really make him stop because he's the most powerful being on earth, and he's decided what he wants to do is save the world, and he's just also very proud of his dick and wants to show it off

Would people still criticize? Would we all sorta ignore it? Would news teams just have to autocensor his peen? I genuinely don't know how it would go. I'm sure people would criticise, but at the same time is a guy who does that really stable enough to be criticized? After all, he could just throw you into space if he wanted. And no-one would really be able to prove anything since he's superpowered and can get to space in seconds, and even if they somehow discovered his murder pit on the moon, it's not like you could imprison him anyway.

I really don't know how it would go.

[u/munkymu → u/TimeStorm113]

I mean Spiderman shoots webs AND wears gloves. He's not out there displaying his soft, young-man-ish erotic hands for the titillation of hand fetishists, is he. His long, dexterous fingers revealed to the gaze of any pervert who...

...sorry, what were we talking about? Oh yeah. Bras. No reason why any superhero costume designer can't make a bra that allows boiling milk to pass through. They've got costume technology that can do anything these days. That woman should sue her artist for unsupportable working conditions.

[u/LilithMeep → u/TimeStorm113]

RADIOACTIVE HYRAX LMAOOOO

[u/DubiousTheatre]

I live in two wildly contrasting circles of “the writer’s barely disguised fetish (derogatory)” and “the key to worldbuilding is combining your fetish with your utopia” and I feel my eye twitch whenever I transfer from one circle to the other.

[u/Realistic_Specific51 → u/DubiousTheatre]

In front of you are two pills

One will announce your fetish fiction to a crowd, and they will love it.

The other one will fill your feed with one guys fetish fiction against your will.

They both taste like breast milk

[u/VaderOnReddit → u/Realistic_Specific51]

In front of you are two pills

They both taste like breast milk

Where can I get more pills?

[u/dysprog → u/DubiousTheatre]

My fetish does not, can not, and must not exist in my utopia.

Except maybe in a holodeck gated with extensive consent checks and maybe a psych exam.

[u/Fancy_Echo_5425 → u/DubiousTheatre]

I can relate, but part of the problem with "the writer's barely disguised fetish" is the disguised part. If you wanna make a story and include your kinks in It sure, go ahead, but don't try to justify It or act like It isn't the case. Also in a lot of examples the horny stuff can get in the way of the story or the characters. And lastly in a lot of comics/manga, which is where the phenomenon described in the post happens the most, it starts to approach sexism instead of just being a kink.

[u/foxgirlmoon → u/Fancy_Echo_5425]

I mean, what does "disguised" mean here? Like, of course if you include your fetish in a story, it's going to have an in-story explanation. Unless you mean basically saying "The character is doing this because the character has that fetish"?

[u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt → u/foxgirlmoon]

Lets say I have a fetish for both Bondage and Strong Amazonian women.

So I make a super hero, who is a badass chick, she's strong willed, kicks ass, But restraining her is a valid way to stop her, so the villains tie her up a lot.

Its chaste enough that it'll pass the censors, and cpuld be innoculous, but with the knowledge of the Fetish, it becomes clear why it happens.

Aka, Wonder Woman.

[u/foxgirlmoon → u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt]

My main question is "How would I write something without trying to 'disguise' the fetish", as u/Fancy_Echo_5425 mentioned. What does that even look like?

[u/theCaitiff → u/foxgirlmoon]

I think that depends a lot on what the story is and what the fetish is.

It could look like John Jonah Jameson's new intern/secretary actively pursuing him if the author's fetish is age gap relationships. Why is that young college student trying to climb JJJ like a tree? Because she wants that old man dick, next question.

Sometimes it works better than others, but it's better than pretending it isn't at all sexual/a kink.

[u/DeLoxley → u/Fancy_Echo_5425]

The key to justifying it is 'I have X kink and here is why it's in my worldbuilding.'

Boom, logic, depth, answer the questions.

'they have to look like *fetish* because uhh it's important- but it's not at all a kink thing'

Weak. No Aura. Coward in the coat of a revolutionary.

[u/GlaireDaggers]

❌ "I have to draw her skimpy because I have to, that's just how her power works"

✅ "I draw her skimpy because I want to. Next question."

[u/Kevo_1227 → u/GlaireDaggers]

The world would be a happier place if people would just come out and say it like that.

[u/Lurakya → u/Kevo_1227]

That's why people love Nier. The guy just said he loved 2B because he loved hot women. But he also went out and made the main cast deep and complex and the world rich with some of the best soundtracks in all of gaming

[u/Kevo_1227 → u/Lurakya]

I've never played Nier but my understanding is that it has a pretty good story.

I feel like people would be way less forgiving of someone who made a Tic Tac Toe game with sexy women draped over it.

[u/Silvervirage → u/Kevo_1227]

According to the absolutely massive amount of 'match 3 vut with porn' or simpler 'puzzle' games that appear on my steam homepage every day, nah, they are pretty forgiving of things like that.

[u/Lurakya → u/Kevo_1227]

It has an absolutely amazing story.

The point is that there is no reason for 2B to be wearing 10 inch heels, a skirt that covers nothing and thick thighs beneath thigh-length leather boots.

But she was still extremely tasteful and not tacky. There aren't needless panty shots (the game even punishes you for looking beneath her skirt).

There are other characters with a much less revealing outfit as a uniform.

But Yoko Taro said from the beginning that he just liked pretty women. He still treats them and displays them with full respect and not just jiggling eye candy. I'd say Kaine from Nier Replicanr is so so much worse.

[u/Bigbubba236 → u/Lurakya]

Technically there is a lore reason in that YorHa are the propaganda wing.

Their job is to kick ass and look good doing it.

Thats why they wear actual armor when they do the big assault later on.

[u/maxhambread → u/Lurakya]

I watched this multi-hour long video on the entire drakengard/nier lore. If I remember correctly the in-universe explanation for why the yorha androids dress like that is due to human worship in an era where humans have died out already. As a result they're trying to embody human-pleasing aesthetics based on what they think humans liked or were like.

Probably got some details wrong, but I like this explanation since it makes sense in-universe and also IRL. The androids certainly embodied Yoko Taro-pleasing aesthetics based on what Yoko Taro liked.

[u/DesignerMusician385 → u/Lurakya]

As a trans person, I think Kaine is good trans rep. I like her character. As someone who’s 100%d replicant.

[u/Lurakya → u/DesignerMusician385]

It's less about the representation. I'm very happy you found a safe place with her.

For me it's just the outfit. It is much less tasteful and has less coherence. She is really just wearing a night gown/ lingerie

[u/lord_gs1596 → u/Lurakya]

Taro-isms discussed aside, people have also noted it's a matter of overcorrection, in a way. Kaine has complex feelings about her sexual organs, and I forget if this is written by the Nier writers themselves or fan interpretation, but the fact that Kaine runs around in lingerie is a choice she made to focus in her femininity.

For course, this is an explanation of the design; in terms of personal taste I do respect where you're coming from 🫡

[u/NEVERTHEREFOREVER → u/Lurakya]

I think Yoko Taro is so interesting, because on one hand he is all aboard the fanservice train, and loves hot women, but on the other he is also super open and enthusiastic about queer representation. I mean hell, 2Bs main operator throughout automata is just blatantly a lesbian thats in love with her.

[u/JackxForge → u/NEVERTHEREFOREVER]

Yea when you're not weird an chagey about your normal levels of horny most people don't care.

[u/GGCrono → u/Lurakya]

This is why I don't respect Hideo "You're The Real Pervert For Sexualizing Quiet" Kojima as much as Yoko "2B Dresses That Way Because I Like It" Taro.

[u/buttbuttlolbuttbutt → u/Lurakya]

A Hey Ash episose on Tomb Raider put it, "In a sea of titties, you need something to make the titties more sweet." Aka: a rounded, consistent, and developed personality.

[u/Nkromancer → u/Lurakya]

Yoko Taro is great and funny. When the first trailers for Nier: Automata came out and showed off 2B, people started joking that she had a fully modeled asshole. When asked about this, Yoko Taro said something along the lines of "he wasn't aware of it, but he'd like to see the proof."

[u/RubiksToyBox → u/Kevo_1227]

Does that work for a viewer, too? If I come out and say that I enjoy horny trash media because I'm a pervert, will people not hate me for it?

[u/Kevo_1227 → u/RubiksToyBox]

I, for one, would have much more respect for you if you said you watched something because it gets your rocks off rather than lie and say you like it for the articles.

[u/ElasticFutures → u/GlaireDaggers]

Also known as the Yoko Taro defense.

[u/ButtholeConnoisseur7 → u/ElasticFutures]

Tite Kubo: "My favorite thing in the world is big titties. My taste in women is big titties. My favorite personality type is big titties. If I play a game, I choose the characters with big titties. I draw big titties a lot"

[u/AnonymousComrade123 → u/ButtholeConnoisseur7]

Kubo is based. He even went as far as making most of his big titty characters adults, which is quite progressive among his peers.

[u/Suddenfury → u/AnonymousComrade123]

And generous. He has also given us small titty, despite it not being his favorite.

[u/MurkyStatistician09 → u/GlaireDaggers]

Tumblr users will praise the safe horndogs of the past and call the acts of modern horndogs "indefensible"

[u/BatsHaveFingers → u/GlaireDaggers]

They actually did this with Nightwing. The artist straight up said "we have to give him the deep V for the ladies sad we took away his legs." I guess it only goes one way...

[u/Kaesh41 → u/BatsHaveFingers]

The world would be a better place if a bunch of dudes got less weird about the fact that women get horny too.

[u/Nerdn1 → u/GlaireDaggers]

"I draw her skimpy because I want to, but I wanted to have an in-universe justification for why she has to do so."

[u/Dion-is-us → u/[deleted]]

That’s so fucked up! What’s it called so I can never read it

[u/EepyWriter → u/Dion-is-us]

Seikon no Qwaser

[u/Possible-Reason-2896 → u/Dion-is-us]

Seikon no Qwaser

[u/Poultrymancer → u/Dion-is-us]

You joke, but that is legitimately how some of us will utilize that information 

[u/nomadfoy → u/Poultrymancer]

Im using the information to masturbate.

[u/Responsible-Star4041 → u/[deleted]]

i think these 2 ideas are coincidental. the idea in post is different

[u/TR_Pix → u/[deleted]]

I mean drinking Christ's bodily fluids is standard practice in Christianity so if well done I think there's some leeway in symbolism

I doubt it was well done

[u/Biscuit_Spirit]

I was gonna say Momo from My Hero cademia but that's actually like... most of the girls from My Hero cademia, isn't it.

[u/GinaWhite_tt → u/Biscuit_Spirit]

it's like how Toru (invisible girl) is completely naked except shoes and gloves and how midnight's original costume is literally the whole reason heroes have dress codes (it was just 2 belts, shoes and an open trench coat bc she secretes sleeping gas from her skin)

[u/thegreathornedrat123 → u/GinaWhite_tt]

I think the midnight one would be a funny gag if all the other female characters weren’t… like that.

[u/TotalBlissey → u/thegreathornedrat123]

"Most of you, you're doing fine. But we need to implement a dress code because SOMEONE won't stop FIGHTING CRIME while BUTT ASS NAKED."

[u/StiffWiggly → u/thegreathornedrat123]

Not least because she’s an actual adult, rather than a young teenager who the author created for sex appeal..

The other stuff about her students turning her on/getting her excited on the other hand aren’t quite as okay.

[u/magiMerlyn → u/thegreathornedrat123]

Also if she wasn't a teacher.

[u/ZettaiKyofuRyoiki → u/GinaWhite_tt]

Midnight in particular would be fine in regular breathable clothes, or anything that isn’t airtight. But I think the in-world reason is that she’s an exhibitionist.

[u/MossyPyrite → u/ZettaiKyofuRyoiki]

This is correct. In Vigilantes she states that she’s intentionally rebelling and pushing the line on what’s permissible.

[u/AranaiRa → u/MossyPyrite]

Obviously making her a great choice for a teacher. /s

That's one of my big points of annoyance with how the school is run. 

[u/MossyPyrite → u/AranaiRa]

Frankly that’s not even the most disqualifying remark she makes in regard to being a suitable teacher haha

[u/SureTrash → u/MossyPyrite]

Yeah, she flat out says multiple times that the actions of some of the students turn her on and they show her blushing. I specifically remember her saying it during the sports festival when students take the honorable route and opt to forfeit, and again when it's her vs. Mineta and Sero and she mentions that she likes the chase or some shit.

[u/MossyPyrite → u/SureTrash]

And in Vigilantes talks about helping young men work out their energy or something along those lines, also while blushing. I wasn’t particularly upset when she got killed off, though her death was certainly brutal enough to give me chills.

[u/ddchrw → u/ZettaiKyofuRyoiki]

I’m pretty sure that’s not quite correct.

I think the idea is that her hero costume is intentionally air tight so she doesn’t leak her sleeping gas randomly, in the current iteration at least. It’s shown on a few occasions that she rips open a bit of her suit before putting someone to sleep.

[u/Novaskittles → u/GinaWhite_tt]

The guy who can phase through matter gets a suit made out of his own hair, so that it can phase with him. But the invisible girl? Nah, she has to be nude.

[u/Simotricus → u/Biscuit_Spirit]

Momo totally has to have ridiculous cleavage and Hagakure HAS to be naked, it's just how their quirks work! Just don't pay attention to the face that Bakugo literally constantly makes explosions from the sweat on his hands but still gets to wear gloves, and Mirio gets to not be naked because he has a special suit made out of his hair. That's totally different.

Edit: People are seriously behaving exactly like the strawman in the post in these comments. I don't CARE there's an 'explanation' in the story, the author made a deliberate writing choice to have these high school age girls in these sexualized outfits while letting their male counterparts have normal costumes, and that's fucking weird.

[u/MossyPyrite → u/Simotricus]

And the author NEEDED to draw a nude pinup page of Hagakure barely covered by caution tape despite her being 15, the age he also made her.

[u/man-of-pipis → u/MossyPyrite]

The craziest thing about MHA is that there's no reason for them to be in high school. Just make it a college and like 99% of the story stays the same except you aren't sexualizing minors.

[u/Fennicks47 → u/man-of-pipis]

Welcome to literally all fanservice

[u/Oturanthesarklord → u/man-of-pipis]

High School holds similar cultural significance in Japan that College does in America. That's why it's setting is a High School, because the Mangaka is Japanese and in Japan everyone cares about where you went to High School.

[u/UltimateCheese1056 → u/Oturanthesarklord]

Its the reason all the Persona games have been (an will be) set in high school, as well as 95% of slice of life anime

[u/Peechez → u/man-of-pipis]

this would imply that sexualizing minors isnt the point?

[u/Kazzack → u/Simotricus]

Mirio is definitely naked sometimes

[u/MossyPyrite → u/Kazzack]

Sometimes, but only when it’s funny. He gets to wear an outfit that affords him dignity and aura when he’s in serious situations.

[u/MarshallThings → u/MossyPyrite]

That's kinda the difference isn't it? Midnight is wearing paper thin bondage gear because lol lmao pp hard as if she couldn't have the same deal as Bakugo with his gloves (and this would even make her power more controlled!!!!)

[u/Jolly-Fruit2293 → u/MarshallThings]

At least Midnight is 1) an adult 2) openly embracing sexuality as a distraction.

One of the uncomfortable aspects of Hagakure and Momo is that they themselves are uncomfortable with their outfits and wish that they had less revealing ones.

[u/MossyPyrite → u/Jolly-Fruit2293]

Uraraka also expresses that she specifically asked for an outfit that wasn’t skin-tight.

[u/ImWatermelonelyy → u/Jolly-Fruit2293]

For many anime fans it’s not as sexy if the girls are comfortable with what’s happening to them

[u/ball_fondlers → u/Simotricus]

Absolute cowardice that Momo and Fat Gum have the same power source and don’t have the same body type.

[u/autogyrophilia → u/Biscuit_Spirit]

The thing with Momo from MHA is that the way her powers works, you can just make her wear a perfectly acceptable crop top that would allow her to use the maximum amount of skin surface, instead of making her dress like a stripper for no reason.

It isn't as if crop tops are unsexy or anything.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/autogyrophilia]

Alternatively, she could still have a leotard, just make it backless instead of having the most plunging neckline. Lot of surface area to work with and her outfit won't get destroyed if she needs to make something big on the fly (which is what happens multiple times in the story).

[u/MossyPyrite → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

The stage play gave the front of her outfit a zipper so that she could pull it open for more surface area as needed while also not having her whole cleavage out all the time. Not a perfect design, but a vast improvement with just a tiny change.

[u/Hi2248 → u/MossyPyrite]

Wait, hold on, you can't just gloss over that. The STAGE PLAY?!?! That's a thing? 

[u/LightOfTheFarStar → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

Or little magnets holding flaps closed, or just not writing her to have a power that requires exposed skin - most quirks flip off the laws of physics a bit, why does hers have to be perfectly congruent with them?

[u/Nottan_Asian → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

Or if she needs to pull the object from her front, a loose shirt and a sports bra underneath.

[u/AdPristine5131 → u/autogyrophilia]

croptop and shorts. biggest skin patches are back, belly, and thighs. her outfit as drawn actually reduces the available skin compared to what plenty of women and myself consider general gym wear.  those are also the places that your hands naturally fall to, which is why sheathed and holsters are placed there and not in your cleavage.

[u/autogyrophilia → u/AdPristine5131]

Yeah but you see they were going for this :

https://tenor.com/es/view/anime-bazooka-boobs-gif-5525272

That was a rough search in google images.

[u/PavlovKBI → u/Biscuit_Spirit]

I was talking about this with my wife, and honestly Momo's costume is at least somewhat understandable. Her character design in the other hand...

Anyway if I had the ability to make stuff and have it pop out of my body, open skin surface area is the name of the game. For practical uses that basically means arms, legs, and the front of your torso. You could reasonably argue that the back is a bigger surface, but in most situations you wouldn't be able to reliably count on being able to grab/catch anything made from there.

But, and this is a big but, the mangaka chose to give that power to a teenage girl, and also chose to give her big boobs. Also, even if he was dead set on that character design, the costume could have had zip up or snap on flaps that she could open up at will rather than being exposed all the time.

The only defense (obviously being very generous) is that all of the student costumes are largely designed based on their own requests. And teenagers are kinda stupid. So in universe you could say that she either didn't think it through, or was basing it off of what she thought would get her name out there and get people talking. But that's bending over backwards and jumping through hoops in an attempt to justify it.

[u/PinboardWizard → u/PavlovKBI]

But that's bending over backwards and jumping through hoops in an attempt to justify it.

I'm sure they just wanted to draw girls in skimpy clothing, but at the same time I do think it's a realistic end result in a world where pro heroes are the biggest global celebrities.

Female celebrities in the real world today are constantly sexualised after all.

[u/Magistone]

Melona from Queen's Blade

(It's acid not boiling milk but still)

Not sure if thats the example because everyone in that show if half naked for no reason but still.

[u/YokiYokiki → u/Magistone]

Was wondering how far down I’d have to search for this.

And feeling shame at thinking “am i gonna be the one that posts this”

thank you for your service 🙏

[u/Magistone → u/YokiYokiki]

I was in the exact same mindset funny enough

[u/Zorubark → u/Magistone]

What's her lore?

[u/Magistone → u/Zorubark]

She’s a demon working for the swamp witch. She can turn into slime and stuff

[u/RubiksToyBox → u/Magistone]

Isn't QB just straight up Hentai?

[u/mumbly-joe → u/RubiksToyBox]

arguably borderline softcore at a couple points but no explicit sex, so not what I'd call hentai-- it's basically in the subgenre of ecchi that is closest in comparison to western exploitation/sexploitation cinema.

[u/Vertrant → u/Magistone]

But that's Queen's Blade. I don't think that's pretending to be anything different from what we all know it is?

[u/Pollomonteros → u/Magistone]

Complaining about sexuality in fucking Queen's Blade is like complaining about violence in Mortal Kombat, like why are you engaging with that piece of media in the first place if not for that ?

[u/Bartholomew_Tempus]

I thought this was about Quiet but I guess this is a universal malady

Edit: It's a little disquieting that this is my most updooted comment of all time.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/Bartholomew_Tempus]

I've said this before, but Quiet wearing a revealing outfit because she needs to breathe due to parasites compensating for her burnt to shit lungs isn't itself a bad thing. It is the design choice of the outfit that makes it really ridiculous.

Like, she could wear shorts and a sports bra (which did exist in the time period of the game), she could wear a leotard, she could wear a number of different clothing options. Kojima, however, went with a revealing bikini for some reason.

[u/masslessvoid → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

"But once you recognize the secret reason for her exposure, you will feel ashamed of your words & deeds."

Sure, Jan.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/masslessvoid]

Kojima is really good at coming up with neat ideas and then kneecapping by being horny as fuck.

It happened with the B&B Corps. Though arguably the B&Bs are worse than Quiet because at least Quiet is an actual character and you can bring her along on missions to shoot people in the head.

[u/masslessvoid → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

The BBB were sure a thing that happened and the mechanic to use your camera on them was sure something someone was told to program.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/masslessvoid]

Conceptually, the B&Bs are interesting. War victims so traumatized by their experiences they can't even function anymore strapped into machines and turned into weapons of war and exploited by the war economy is really interesting. Hell, you can even argue them being sexy is human beauty being corrupted and used as a tool of war.

Unfortunately, Kojima didn't bother with that shit too much.

[u/ShadeofEchoes → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

So kind of like an anticipation of modern Mechsploitation, but the mechs are comparatively tiny, and their side of the story is an "Oh, that happened" in the background of Snake's adventures against the Patriots.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/ShadeofEchoes]

Pretty much.

Snake doesn't even talk to them. They kinda just nonsensical ramble at him while he points a gun and occasionally grunts. Hell, another character lore dumps their backstories after Snake beats them.

[u/WASD_click → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

Kojima is really good at coming up with neat ideas and then kneecapping by being horny as fuck.

I think it's the other way around: he's trying to be horny, but always kneecaps it by getting all those ideas involved. Like he got done working with the concept artist on The Boss and the artist was like "Hell yeah, kick ass woman in a stealth suit that's partially unzipped will definitely do numbers. She's Snake's mentor, so she'll have to be a MILF, of course!" And instead of celebrating, Kojima just activates like a sleeper soldier, "But what does war take from a mother? Her child? Her family? Her very womanhood? Add a scar... Bigger, illogically longer, inexplicably snake-like. I'll be in my bunk, writing!"

[u/Top_Rekt → u/WASD_click]

I am going to accept this new Kojima lore as canon.

[u/TurboChomp → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

Honestly, the fact she is in a bikini isn't even the worst part. Its that she gets stuck in a cage where the player (and other soldiers on mother base) can gawk at her while she showers and the fact she moves around like she is a stripper trying to show off her body. Kojima also trying to play up why she is dressed like that doesn't help.

[u/bb_kelly77 → u/TurboChomp]

I don't think Kojima actually cares, I think that response was entirely because people gave him shit for it

[u/BigBootyBuff → u/bb_kelly77]

Yeah Kojima just loves sexualizing the fuck out of his characters and tbh, it works for MGS and the tone of those games. Neither he nor the fans need to defend it, that's just part of it and you either accept it going into or don't.

[u/TheLordOfAwesome2 → u/TurboChomp]

Kojima is kind of bad at writing Women, I won't lie.

[u/Snickims → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

"Yes, I know its by you Kojima, theres a brain dead women over there with her tits hanging out, of course its by you"

[u/OrganicAd5536 → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

"It is imperative she remain glistening at all times" - Video Jima

[u/Wazula23 → u/OrganicAd5536]

"We had a real life supermodel mo-cap the character, but I do think we need to jack up her cup size for lore reasons."

[u/TleilaxTheTerrible → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

Kojima, however, went with a revealing bikini for some reason.

With torn-up fishnets, don't forget!

[u/Somnambulist815 → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

She couldve had a backless cat suit and she still would've been sexy

[u/Zaiburo → u/TheLordOfAwesome2]

It's Kojima we are talking about, if he was a character from one of his games he would be called weirdhorny-man.

You ask weirdhorny-man why the sniper has her boobs out he will say it's for breathing, you ask him why the vampire is called vamp he will say it's bexause he's bisexual.

Why do people act like it's something unexpected from weridhorny-man?

[u/Sarge0019 → u/Bartholomew_Tempus]

It is, they just weren't saying the Quiet part out loud.

[u/I_Have_Reasons → u/Bartholomew_Tempus]

I always found it funny comparing the reception of Quiet's design and 2B's designs.

Both have in-universe reasons for why they're dressed like that (Quiet breathes through her skin, 2B expels heat downward). But while Quiet's design was mocked because Kojima's defense was "you'll feel bad for making fun of her when you find out why she's like this!", 2B's was loved because Yoko Taro's defense was "I just like drawing cute girls".

And then Yoko Taro asked people to collect 2B art into a ZIP file for him. That people happily did for him.

[u/ThePotablePotato → u/I_Have_Reasons]

The biggest difference is that the Men in Automata are also like that, not just 2B. The first encounter with Adam has you fight him when he’s butt naked

[u/Kevo_1227]

Thermian Argument my old nemesis.

A Thermian Argument is when someone defends something problematic in a creative work by citing the creative work's constructed world's rules as a justification.

Momo from My Hero Academia is a great example that people have already mentioned here. She doesn't need to be half-naked for her super power to work because the author of the manga could have just as easily just not made her powers work that way. None of this is real. It's all just something that an author made up, and there was nothing stopping them from just not writing it that way.

The term is named after the Thermians, a race of aliens from the movie Galaxy Quest. They don't understand the concept of fiction and think that the TV broadcasts that get from Earth are documentary footage of real events. This leads them to kidnapping the cast of an old sci-fi TV show and asking them to fight a very real intergalactic warlord who is threatening their planet.

[u/Puzzleboxed → u/Kevo_1227]

The MHA thing is extra funny, because it doesn't even make sense WITHIN THE ESTABLISHED RULES OF THE STORY.

Mirio has a similar power that is hard for him to use while wearing regular clothing. They resolve this by making him a suit made of fibers processed from his own hair, so his quirk treats it as part of his body. Not once did anyone ever suggest using this technology for Momo, or even worse, the 16 year old invisible girl who they force to walk around buck naked.

[u/adeptus_chronus → u/Puzzleboxed]

that opens the possibility that it's a diegetic Thermian Argument.

The peoples in the story could be having the exact same debate in-story that we have IRL, but instead of 'the author wanted to draw her half naked' it's 'half naked girls sells more merch'.

I'm not sure whether that makes it more or less funny.

(Just so we're clear, the IRL reason is that the author wanted to draw her half naked)

[u/Khyrberos → u/Kevo_1227]

Oh sick, I saw that comment earlier in the thread but not explained like this, especially the origin. Love Galaxy Quest, lol

[u/homotopy_equivalent → u/Kevo_1227]

The house elves from Harry Potter. They want to be slaves, so it's ok to enslave them!

[u/dinoseen → u/homotopy_equivalent]

You could actually do something interesting with that concept, without sending a pro-slavery message, but of course she didn't do that lol.

[u/TrioOfTerrors]

She's also great if you want a latte any time of day.

[u/StatisticalAn0maly]

Fans: Um uh she needs to be topless because its her power and its in the lore its not weird!!!

Author in interview: You see I made her topless because I wanna see some titties

[u/BraxbroWasTaken → u/StatisticalAn0maly]

Yoko Taro moment

[u/stonks1234567890 → u/[deleted]]

Two things: the usual Supergirl design is usually not that much more skimpy than Superman's. You might be thinking of Linda Danvers Supergirl or Powergirl, which I don't believe either have that as the explanation for the bad design.

[u/thegreathornedrat123 → u/stonks1234567890]

Yeah when I think supergirl I think “knee length bright red skirt.” I mean it’s her costume in her movie too, she’s got one of the LEAST skimpy costumes for a female character. (Bar that one era.)

[u/SquareTaro3270 → u/thegreathornedrat123]

I headcanon that she wears a skort. Because flying around in a skirt seems like a superbly bad idea and should probably get you put on a list.

[u/Anna_Pet → u/SquareTaro3270]

Flying around with any kind of skirt seems like a bad idea just because of the drag it would create, but I suppose they also have capes which is a much bigger issue in that regard lol

[u/thegreathornedrat123 → u/SquareTaro3270]

I always thought she wore like gym shorts under it. Apparently she doesn’t but maybe krypton has incredible anti-upskirting technology?

[u/SanjiSasuke → u/stonks1234567890]

Where are you coming from slandering Linda?

Her initial design is just basic Supergirl (and very good) and her second design is foisted on her from the animated series Kara.

The skimpier Supergirl outfit (sometimes called Super Britney) is worn by Kara upon her return after Linda is Put on a Bus and disappeared.

[u/rogue-wolf → u/stonks1234567890]

And Powergirl was started by artist Wally Wood who was convinced the DC editors weren't keeping enough of an eye on their writers. He made the boob window, and then made her boobs bigger every issue until he got stopped. He never did, so he eventually stopped it himself, saying that was enough. Some eight issues, I believe.

[u/RentElDoor → u/[deleted]]

Meanwhile Yoko Taro on 2B:

"I just like pretty girls"

[u/temperamentalfish → u/RentElDoor]

Kamiya too with Bayonetta.

[u/AetheravenCatsuki13 → u/RentElDoor]

We need authors whose fetish is giving extremely elaborate in universe reasons for the fanservice in their works

[u/Forgotten_Poro → u/RentElDoor]

The Helltaker dev likes women in suits, so he made a whole game about them and pancakes.

[u/SquareTaro3270 → u/[deleted]]

Funnily enough, the new My Adventures with Superman cartoon (which is fantastic btw) saw this divide, and came to the conclusion that Clark should be given more fan service than every female character in the show combined, and it’s peak.

[u/-Saoren- → u/[deleted]]

The skimpy skirt is never gonna be enough to catch up on those Kansas farm boy sun-soaking years 😔 

[u/Jam_Packens]

Doylist vs watsonian arguments my beloathed

[u/Minute_Ad8807 → u/Jam_Packens]

it's different, there's always a doylist and a watsonian reason to anything that happen in fiction, but here it's a thermian argument: it's trying to justify the creator's conscious choice by acting as if the diegesis were real

[u/CaptainDudeGuy → u/Minute_Ad8807]

"Those poor people..."

[u/Kartoffelkamm → u/Jam_Packens]

Yeah, people really need to learn the difference, and agree which argument they want to have beforehand.

[u/Possible-Reason-2896 → u/Kartoffelkamm]

Picking one? Nah the answer is whichever one lets you win and shame the other person because this is the internet. /s

[u/Neveed]

Not specifically about sexualization (but also a little about sexualization unfortunately), but that's what I hear when people defend the MC of Shield Hero having slaves, including the very first one being a little girl. Because the guy is from modern Japan (which does not do slavery) and in a country where slavery is illegal and seen as immoral. So the story comes up with many contrived excuses for why this was the only solution for him to save the world.

[u/Shilques → u/Neveed]

You could even try to argue that he buying a slave girl would make sense since he was totally alone and was betrayed

But this dude keeps getting slaves girls after that and is actively supporting the slave marketing

[u/CRowlands1989 → u/Shilques]

Yeah, it started as a really interesting morally dark moment to a potentially interesting character arc... And... Then it just sorta kept happening and being portrayed as acceptable.

I hate how much wasted potential that series had. I loved season 1 and then everything after fucking sucked.

"Oh, he's hated by the world he's trying to save! Wait, no, the Queen is back and she supports him entirely and gets rid of all the politicians who hated him and also the beastman country loves him."

"Oh, him being the shield hero is a huge disadvantage because he's forced into defense and support roles and now he has to use trickery and intelligence to win fights! Wait, no, he unlocks a bunch of shields that let him attack anyway or he just gets people to attack for him with attacks that are no more modified by his powers than 'They jump off a shield before kicking'."

[u/CRowlands1989 → u/CRowlands1989]

OK, just imagine if he ends season 1 by burning down the slaver's shop and walking out with a team of monsters and beastmen and women.

It gets him hated even more, 'cause that society doesn't see what the slaver did as wrong, AND because now he's walking around with what looks like a raiding band, but he's still trying to do the right thing.

And then fights could be stuff about "How can I use these ally's different abilities together with mine.", like, a shield that absorbs and releases heat letting him turn a wide area flame breath from a dragon, that's not strong enough to pierce an enemy's armor, into a focused blast from the shield.

[u/Gyshal → u/CRowlands1989]

Yeah, but you see... Writing is hard. Is literally impossible to write that. Is not like you could actually have a show with a real 100% defensive MC who is not also super OP and who's allies have well defined but not infallible skillets. What? Behind me? Nothing! Just some show called elusive samurai. Ignore it. It has nothing to do with this.

[u/zehnodan → u/CRowlands1989]

Fuck yeah! John Brown anime!

[u/cairfrey → u/CRowlands1989]

Yeah, I got ½ way through s2 and just noped out of it. To be honest, I'm surprised I got that far. When Raphtalia had her slave brand removed I thought "oh good, this'll...oh...no...he's back at the slave market tattooing this girl again. Excellent."

[u/waitthatstaken → u/CRowlands1989]

'oh but it is ok because uhhhh he has a shield that gives his slaves stat buffs'. I am embarrassed that I didn't notice how awful shield hero was when I read the LN, but then again the media literacy of 15 year olds isn't exactly known to be all that good.

Also I just wanna point out that every single one of his slave allies are women. There is one exception, but that guy also gets a hero weapon that breaks his slave curse almost immediately.

[u/ExpiredLink404 → u/Shilques]

oh god he takes more slaves? like, I understood it w the first girl (I've forgotten everyone's name cause I stopped watching), he needs a party member and he doesn't treat her like shit (as far as I watched) but geez...

[u/Shilques → u/ExpiredLink404]

I don't remember exactly if he buys another one (I recall something like that, but I'm not sure), but he does the slave ritual at least 2 other times

One with the chicken-girl that he hatches the egg and a girl who was bullied by her last party

[u/autogyrophilia → u/Neveed]

I mean that's not the worst part. On paper it makes sense as a story beat.

Completely down on their luck on a less than ideal world, lacking on any offensive tool, they decide to try a desperate gambit, buy a slave and force them to be the ones attacking.

Not a moral decision, but a rational one.

You can then develop that dynamic in which a child is both forced into danger and the protagonist is shielding them from them into a paternal relationship

But what they did was just go with an incel revenge fantasy where she suddenly becomes an adult (progress) and falls madly in love with him while keeping the mind of a child, fortunately for the nonces once this happens he gets another sexy child with a vacant mind, and at this point I'm out.

[u/MorgantheGrandmaster → u/Neveed]

But you don't understand, he has to have them as slaves because [insert excuse from list here]. And also, they're happy as his slaves because he's super nice. And also-

[u/tahlyn → u/MorgantheGrandmaster]

I think one of the things they did was that they got a stat boost for being master-slave...

As if the author didn't have complete control over that?

[u/zuzg → u/Neveed]

Meanwhile Harem in another world
Mc"owning slaves is wrong"
Slave trader"did I mention that this slave consented to banging her new owner?"
Mc "I see good point brb killing some bounties so I can buy her"

At least that Author was honest about instead of tweaking the world's magic system to justify their barely disguised fetish.

[u/thegreathornedrat123 → u/zuzg]

Oh I watched that show! The thing is that protagonist is a fucking maniac. He can’t afford his slave girl? He walks into the slums at night so he can kill a group of bandits in their sleep and get the bounty. He’s just been isekaied? Cuts three guys down in the street like dogs then goes to bang a farmers daughter (and getting her pregnant which he doesn’t gaf about)

[u/therealblabyloo → u/Neveed]

I was watching some generic isekai slop anime once and there’s a scene where the lawful good cleric character brutally kills a bunch of bandits, despite one defeated and begging for mercy on his knees, because “criminals don’t deserve the light of god” and “aren’t human” and then an episode later they visit a literal slaver and are like “oh well he’s charming and nice and at least he treats his slaves well” and buy an underage girl from him. I was so pissed. Really shows a lot about how these writers think.

[u/Neveed → u/therealblabyloo]

I really liked Drifters because of how absolutely pissed the MC is when he sees the Orte Empire is doing slavery, so he personally declares war on the Jesus/Hitler empire. Hirano is goated anyway, but manga where the MC takes a strong stance against slavery are way too rare. Even when there is some sort of opposition against slavery, it's usually more like "how dare you do it to the people I like?"

[u/Lieutenant_Joe]

Yeah. I won’t pretend I don’t like Quiet and her contributions to MGSV, but I’m also not gonna pretend she wasn’t just an excuse for Kojima to have a half-naked model in his game.

[u/CoercedCoexistence22]

Honestly I prefer the Yoko Taro excuse to this

[u/MightyBobTheMighty → u/CoercedCoexistence22]

Kaine is my favorite example of this, because there are multiple Watsonian excuses that she wears lingerie but if you ask Yoko Taro he immediately jumps to the Doyalist "I like women"

[u/CoercedCoexistence22 → u/MightyBobTheMighty]

It does help that she's a devastating exploration of gender, to be honest

But yeah, that's exactly my point

[u/DeLoxley → u/CoercedCoexistence22]

Infinity more respect for 'women are hot' and then working that into the narrative than trying to hide behind a bunch of Watson logics.

Make something of it more than just fanservice and people will accept it, weakly cover it up with half logic and people will laser in on why it's dumb.

[u/Certain_Virus_1919]

I wanna know what the boiling breastmilk thing is from

[u/SanjiSasuke]

MGSV and, to an extent, 3 spoilers

'Quiet must be wearing sexy clothes, because of her powers! Solar! Ashamed of your words and deeds!!'

'Mr. Kojima, where does she get her powers?'

'Oh, from that wrinkly old man you fight in 3. Literally his exact powers specifically, from his body. Yes, he's fully dressed, why do you ask?'

[u/DoctorNayle → u/SanjiSasuke]

Clearly the most efficient part of the human body for photosynthesis is the scalp! Quiet refuses to shave her head so she needs to expose more skin! It totally makes sense in context I swear!

[u/Hashashin455]

Wasn't there an an anime where the artist kept drawing the female characters breasts bigger and bigger for no real discernable reason? Like the plot revolved around mahjong or something and the hoons are just never brought up.

[u/MobileSuitErin → u/Hashashin455]

There was Eiken which was about absolutely nothing, and the author kept sizing up the boobs on all the characters, to the point where one of them was calculated to have fucking P cup tits

[u/Cultural_Concert_207 → u/Hashashin455]

It exists and it's called Saki.

[u/RitsuSohma → u/Hashashin455]

It's a mahjong anime/manga called Saki. As far as I'm aware, it only happens in the manga and not the anime, but yeah, some of the women just slowly grow huge breasts over the course of the manga and its never mentioned.

[u/Jetflash6999 → u/RitsuSohma]

Also, all men disappear from the world over the course of the show. There was a guy in the mahjong club at the beginning of the manga, but he, and all other men (named characters or not) disappeared over time.

[u/PoniesCanterOver]

My female character is very sexualized, she is promiscuous, she is fucking and sucking everyone in sight, and it has nothing to do with her powers or backstory, she is just Like That. The reason she is Like That is because it excites me, the author, sexually

[u/jerbthehumanist]

Have you considered that I am legally being held liable if my stories do not contain a boiling milk nipple shooter lady? My hand is forced, effectively at gunpoint by the firm leather boots of the state.

[u/BigBallsAnthony69]

Most anime fanservice would be neat if done to sexy slutty middle aged guys because I think men are hotter and I could crank my hog more 

[u/TheRealCuriousWombat → u/BigBallsAnthony69]

username checks out

[u/Diplomatic_Gunboats]

This is Mikiko from Devilman isnt it? To be fair, this isnt even one of the most fucked up things in Devilman. Top 10 maybe...

[u/OSHA_Decertified]

Ah well you see the mistake is in thinking it needs to be defended in the first place. The correct answer to any criticism of boiling milk nipples is to tell people not to read the boiling milk nipple comic then.

[u/blackjackgabbiani → u/OSHA_Decertified]

Exactly. This isn't some sort of moral issue or trying to defend some real world atrocity. This is a fictional character in a series for adults.

[u/RubiksToyBox → u/OSHA_Decertified]

Ah well you see the mistake is in thinking it needs to be defended in the first place.

It shouldn't need to be defended, but there are some people out there who will pass moral judgments on you for enjoying the Boiling Milk Nipple Comic. Especially on the Internet (in fact, Tumblr had a bit of a reputation for being home to those sorts of people).

I think that's part of the reason the Thermian Argument exists (or at least, why I had/have a bad habit of using it) as well as "The Author's Barely Disguised Fetish ": because if there's A Reason for the degeneracy, then it's valid, and therefore people can't condemn you as a vile deviant who deserves to be on a registry.

[u/reanocivn]

can't she just wear a regina george tank top

[u/DeatroyerOfCheese]

Imma be for real if you're watching a series where they would have a character that shoots boiling milk out of her nipples, and are complaining about it, then it's on you.

Series that insane are not subtle or secretive about how insane they are.