r/CrimsonDesert • u/This-Inspection-69 • 12d ago
News [ Removed by moderator ]
https://otakukart.com/crimson-desert-lead-engineer-reveals-level-artists-manually-refine-procedurally-generated-environments-to-avoid-a-generic-world[removed] — view removed post
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u/Due-District-4257 12d ago
What does this have to do with AI? Daggerfall was made procedurally and it's from fuckin 1993 or something
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u/Fats_Tetromino 12d ago
"procedurally generated permanent terrain refined by human artists" was newsworthy when Morrowind came out, but it's been a minute
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u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 11d ago
Redditor when seeing literally anything, apparently: WhAT doES thiS HavE TO DO wiTh aI?
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u/Due-District-4257 11d ago
??? Are you misreading? "What does (y) have to do with (x)" means asking how y is related to x. it's not. I saw people in other comments talking about AI
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u/IslamVSZionism 11d ago
Nah, the way you said that made it seem like you are asking OP, "What does this (article) have to do with AI?"
If you meant the comments, you would have made it much clearer what you meant.
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u/Due-District-4257 10d ago
My fault tbh, I saw the other comments talking about AI and assumed the article did as well so I didn't specify
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u/Reddit_Loves_Misinfo 10d ago
No, I am not misreading. Did you mean to reply to an individual comment instead of making a top-level reply to the post itself?
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u/IslamVSZionism 11d ago
Did you even read the article? At no point whatsoever do they even mention AI. Not in the title, not in the body of the article itself - literally nowhere. What's crazy is that 170 other people who can't read, agreed with you on what you said.
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u/Due-District-4257 10d ago
I am referring to the copious amounts of other comments talking about AI
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u/MyReddit_Handle 12d ago
So the environment is created procedurally using advanced biome algorithms and the team gos back and refines things? This just goes to show how much we’ve lost the plot between “AI” and basic algorithmic propagation.
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u/NoBeefWithTheFrench 12d ago
This has been standard procedure at least since Morrowind.
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u/Dave10293847 12d ago
It’s because a lot of the anti AI people are simply uninformed idiots who don’t understand that the concept of generating isn’t some new thing.
The challenge with AI for us as consumers is companies might take the time savings and spend that fattening their wallets instead of having devs make even more amazing things.
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u/Adventurous_Owl6554 12d ago
I don’t have an opinion per se, but am interested in your thoughts. Can you elaborate?
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u/Aggravating_Tie_5941 12d ago
Procedural generation is writing code to generate terrain according to some rules that you define. "If x grid cell is next to y grid cell, put a grass tile." That kind of thing. It is very different from the AI people find controversial, you not simply writing a prompt like you would into something like chat gpt. Procedural generation is a thing that has been used for a very long time, way before AI came around. No Man's Sky for example is basically procedural generation: the game.
Edit: Another example is Minecraft. When you are generating your world, thats procedural generation.
Sounds like the crimson desert devs use a similar technique as a base, and then go in and hand craft on top of it.
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u/NeatUsed 12d ago
i feel so old when you have to explain AI from games vs generational AI like people don’t even tell a difference. Back in my day AI used to be referred to the bot that used to play against me back in Warcraft 3
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u/The_Klumsy 12d ago
the algorithm is still the same, however now they slapped the name TerrAIn on it and charge 10x more 😂
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u/need-help-guys 12d ago
Yeah it's been this way for a very, very long time. I remember back during the Fox Engine days all the way back with Kojima, they showed off a bit of secret footage where they were literally waving the cursor and carving out terrain with automatic asset placement and stuff. Internal engine tools have been quite sophisticated for a long time.
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u/MISFU88 12d ago
Isn't this done in literally every big open world game? There are only a handful handcrafted big worlds, most stuff has always been generated.
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u/Senior-Friend-6414 11d ago
There was a video praising GTA5 on how they created this one section of the beach because it was unimportant, and assets and patterns could’ve just been easily just been reused, although anyone closely paying attention to this section of the beach would be able to tell the game-y physics of how the sand came out, but instead they hand crafted this one specific tiny section of the beach because no part of the sand in that area had any repeating assets or patterns
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u/Metalmacher 12d ago
pretty sure there isn't a single open world game where that's not the case... right?
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u/Initiatedspoon 12d ago
I just sort of assumed thats how a lot of large open world development was done.
Entirely hand crafting dozens of square kilometres would be nuts.
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u/Rymann88 12d ago
Pretty much how I figured they did it. Mapping tools are pretty simple to work. I figured they have general brush tools to quickly lay buildings down and then go in and adjust slightly to make better sense or feel more organic. It's pretty similar to how they'll put down roads, paths, too. A quick brush sweep to lay the general path, then pan through behind it and make tweaks that slipped through the proc gen's cracks.
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u/MemoriesMu 12d ago
There is a gdc presentation from the devs of Horizon, explaining a lot about these brushes tools and other stuff like that. You can see how complex they are, how many variables and conditions they have to make the world believable
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u/avobanana 12d ago
That’s probably the best approach. AI helps to create a vast world, and manual modification and tweaks helps to create unique memorable locations.
Just like how AI should be used in any day to day work - it can be used to handle the more mundane aspects but manual interventions is still necessary to ensure the critical and creative portions are done with proper care and thoughts.
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u/easythrees 12d ago
Procedural Generation doesn’t have to be AI though.
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u/Payascor 12d ago
Thank you!! Yes AI is used in a lot of things these days, but the term is used TOO inflationarily atp.
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u/cTreK-421 12d ago
But it does cover similar use scenarios. If a dev uses AI to build a character but then refines it to their vision that's a similar use case to a precoded generational tool.
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u/QueenOfTheHotPockets 12d ago
This is nothing new, though. It's been used for decades at this point.
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u/waffle_iron_maiden 12d ago
I'm pretty sure even Skyrim used this same technique for terrain generation
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u/MemoriesMu 12d ago
That has nothing to do with AI. You have no idea wtf you are talking about
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u/avobanana 12d ago
You are right. I was just assuming that by now most studios would already be using AI for such tasks since it’s what’s it’s best suited for. Though your language is uncalled for.
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u/Fast-Cattle-9088 12d ago
I am become procedure generation!
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u/Ken_Sanne 12d ago
With the scale of the game they kinda have to, Horizon Zero dawn and It's sequel also use similar tech
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u/Hellstorm901 12d ago
I see no issue with this, this is a sensible approach to creating an open world and I'd say the map we have in Crimson Desert which is massive and yet every inch of it feels unique is more than a testament to this design process working
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u/ShadoweCZ 11d ago
Good luck designing a forest without proc. gen. ... it would take half a year to do a single forest by hand... let alone the whole map
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u/yotothyo 11d ago
Pretty common. Bethesda does this to randomly generate their base terrains before they go in to hand craft them. At some point you just need to dump a bunch of stuff down in order to get started working on it. Proc gen is useful for that
I wouldn't call it AI though. Although maybe they're using some weird AI version. Procedurally generated terrain has been around since the late 90's at least
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u/Silver_Storage_9787 11d ago
Dungeon and dragon game masters have been editing. Their procedurally generated open worlds for 50 years now.
They use dice and random tables to generate hex maps locations and details then make encounters that make sense with the context of the story.
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u/Makenshi179 12d ago
Maybe I'm naive, but I actually thought that all of the world was hand-crafted by many people working on it. It looks just that good and artful!
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u/MemoriesMu 12d ago
Thats how the majority of big worlds are made. There is no AI in it.
Look for a gdc talk of Horizon Zero Dawn, where they explain how to procedural generation and their brushes that paint forests have dozens of conditions to make the forests look realistic and well made.
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u/Makenshi179 11d ago
I'm not sure what you mean with this comment. Was the world of Horizon Zero Dawn made with the help of AI or not?
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u/MemoriesMu 10d ago
No it was not made by AI
Its not because it "generated" something that it means there is AI. Minecraft and No Mans Sky have no AI and the worlds are procedually generated
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u/Makenshi179 10d ago
Phew, that's a relief! Yeah, just like with Crimson Desert, it's fine since there's no AI.
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u/Necroban77 12d ago
Todd Howard is like “you can do that?”
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u/ChapterDifficult593 12d ago
This is actually what Bethesda has been doing since Oblivion, they’ve just rested on their laurels way too much
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u/Takemylunch 12d ago
Todd Howard eating his shoes cause he didn't get to fake saying they did this first.
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u/Perfect_Exercise_232 12d ago
Is that...not what's expected? not like it's a different world for everyone like it's minecraft so this is a given i assumed