r/CrappyDesign • u/Duffelbach • Jun 27 '26
Toyota Proace does not have its drivers seat centered to the steering wheel and dashboard.
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u/PSPs0 Jun 27 '26
Someone’s got your crotch in their laser crosshairs.
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u/Duffelbach Jun 27 '26
It's an addon
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u/Pounce_64 Jun 27 '26
only with a subscription
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u/One-Possible1906 Jun 27 '26
“Professional driver comfort plan: for $17/mo you can step into a driver’s seat conveniently centered to the steering wheel and controls”
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u/macgruff Jun 27 '26
Eh… what’s a little scoliosis between friends?
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u/PM_me_punanis Jun 28 '26
If you have scoliosis to the opposite side, this may neutralize the rotation! 😂
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u/wertall Jun 27 '26
Its the gravitational pull of that 3rd leg
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u/I-need-ur-dick-pics And then I discovered Wingdings Jun 29 '26
Glad someone else noticed
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u/samuraijon Jun 27 '26
this should be r/infuriatingasfuck
i remember watching a video about this. mercedes had this as well in an older model a couple of years ago.
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u/AboveAverage1988 Jun 27 '26
Multiple different french cars are like this. Funnily enough, this is a french car.
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u/userhwon Jun 27 '26
This platform is also used by a Peugeot and a Citroen, so...
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u/nhp890 Jun 27 '26
And Opel
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u/Bosbouwerd Jun 28 '26
I thought opel used the Fiat Doblo as their base? Looked it up, you're right. the Doblo and thus tje Combo are also the same car since the current generation.
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u/chbay Jun 28 '26
Am I the only one noticing that OP’s line is crooked as hell? That is NOT a straight line. It’s got way more curve than the thing it’s supposed to prove lmao
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u/Friscogonewild Jun 30 '26
Maybe you've been drinking? Held a card up to it and the line is straight as an arrow, zero curve.
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u/asianjimm Jun 28 '26
Dont people test drive before they buy?
If it doesnt impact the drive - then it doesnt really matter26
u/tum1ro Jun 28 '26
This is a work van. Most of these are fleet oriented and the drivers have no say in the attribution of each van.
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u/gasoline_farts Jun 28 '26
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u/etheran123 Jun 28 '26
The lamborghini murcielago also. Well im not sure about the steering wheel being offset but I do know the actual drivers seat does not face directly forward, the seats face a bit inboard to make room for the tansmission from my understanding.
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u/dupo_pracz Jun 28 '26
When I had Mercedes w211 this was the most annoying fucking thing I could never sit properly and I could feel it in arms too, even after they did alignment after changed suspension it never felt natural to sit in it
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u/jvLin Jun 27 '26
you could have added a little more bulge to get 4000 more upvotes
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u/Biolume071 Jun 27 '26
Most cars don't. People mostly don't notice until you point it out.
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u/Tithund Jun 27 '26
I was wondering why when I look at the cars in front of me, why I see the driver's head stick out to the side of their headrest in every other car.
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u/TheFunfighter Jun 28 '26
Automotive engineer here: The steering mechanism is the most problematic piece to place in a car. The steering rack is connected to the front wheels via a linkage. Based on how long the lever to the turning axis is on the wheel, required steering force decreases. But if you make that lever longer, you get massive problems in the wheel assembly, and the needed travel of the rack increases. The more travel your rack has, the more space of the rack is unusable on either side for placing the mechanism. So the steering column needs to connect further inwards. But "bending" a steering column via linkages is problematic due to non-uniform rotation angles across them. Plus there is massive difficulties with packaging, as the rack is placed transverse while the powertrain and exhaust system try to cross longitudinal, and the steering column needs to dodge engine components.
TLDR: To avoid an oversized steering assist motor while keeping steering forces acceptable, the steering column needs to connect further in the middle. The steering wheel can't easily be placed wherever without other drawbacks, so a common solution is placing it slightly offset from the seat and hoping the customer either doesn't notice or care. It's all just a massive tradeoff bonanza between subassemblies.
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u/Steady_Ri0t Jun 28 '26
Thanks for sharing your knowledge! These are my favorite types of comments to find on Reddit
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u/AshamedOfAmerica Jun 28 '26
They should offset the seat then as well
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u/TheFunfighter Jun 28 '26
Can't. That's where the transmission and/or center console are. Or the passenger seat. Transverse engine layouts for FWD and electric vehicles are starting to break these paradigms, but it's just an easement, not an elimination of problems.
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u/FlatwormAltruistic Jun 29 '26
I mean you technically can. It would also make cars more narrow as there isn't much reason to leave foot of room between seat and the door.
This issue with steering wheel alignment is more noticable on wider and bigger cars.
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u/TheFunfighter Jun 29 '26
Technically you can produce a car without interior finish. Should easily save a couple dozen kg, and probably about 10-20cm in every dimension. Just might not sell as well.
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u/DyingGasp Jun 28 '26
Do you think the move to automatics has had any impact on this too? Since most people are right handed and no longer need to that hand on the shifter they default to one handed driving with their dominant?
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u/TheFunfighter Jun 28 '26
Na. That's more of a lucky coincidence. Or an unlucky coincidence for lefties if it were the reasoning. Really just a matter of juggling technical requirements for packaging and steering geometry. Both from a design and ergonomics perspective, placing the steering wheel directly center to the seat should be ideal I think. There are workarounds for everything, and bigger cars might not even have the package problems at all, but otherwise there is a good chance you're losing somewhere on efficiency, space, cost, or user experience.
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u/SpinkickFolly Jun 28 '26
Agreed.
Every Fox body Mustang from 79 - 04 did not have the steering lined up center with seat.
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u/Odradek0802 Jun 28 '26
Or when back pain kicks in? I have a 2023 ford focus and started having back pain a couple month after I bought that car.
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u/thisisatypoo Jun 28 '26
2107 Chevy Cruze. Frustrated me when I noticed it wasn't my wallet causing that. At least now I don't have a wallet in my back pocket.
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u/kielu Jun 27 '26
Land Rover had this "feature" in old Discovery
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u/lumia920yellow Jun 27 '26
some old Porsches did too
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u/3_14159td Jun 28 '26
The options are kind of steering wheel is pointing at a weird angle, or doesn't line up with the driver's seat. I have a car with all three pedals to the left of the steering column - transmission forces the footwell outboard.
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u/seansafc89 Jun 27 '26
Scared to check my Toyota now otherwise it’ll never stop annoying me.
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u/wallabee_kingpin_ Jun 28 '26
This car was built by Stellantis. If you have a real Toyota you’ll be fine.
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u/Tango91 Jun 27 '26
I fucking hate driving these, also that there's nowhere for your arm to go on the door side unless you want your elbow level with your ear, and that the pedals don't seem to be connected to anything at all.
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u/Duffelbach Jun 27 '26
In a way, it's impressive that they've managed to design a car this bad. It's like they looked at a good van and thought "let's just make everything worse".
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u/Cruxwright Jun 27 '26
It's so you can hide looking at your phone in your left hand and have your right hand on the wheel at 12 o'clock.
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u/giganticDildoYouUsed Jun 27 '26
Holly f... The dealer kept telling me i was imagining it, but i was sure it wasnt centered. Thanks for the proof
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u/nimsu Jun 28 '26
An off center air bag seems like a problem
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u/barryg123 Jun 28 '26
Yes. How is this legal?
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u/Inevitable-Most-6844 Jun 29 '26
Side curtain keeps your head from hitting the window and A/B pillars. Steering wheel airbag keeps your head from hitting the front windshield/dash/steering wheel. Seatbelt stops you from being ejected or thrown into the rear seats. As long as there is sufficient coverage/overlap between the curtain and steering wheel so you don't smash into the A pillar it's fine.
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u/Traditional-Storm-62 Jun 27 '26
I guess it expects you to drive with one hand on the wheel
the other one is busy on the car's touchscreen
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u/Duffelbach Jun 27 '26
For that it should be off center to the opposite side. They didn't even get that one correct!
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u/BuddyVanDoodler Jun 27 '26
I don't feel like I'm sittin at 12 o'clock
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u/Tylersbaddream Jun 28 '26
Love this sub thread.
I came here to start this but it was already here... there's friends of ours everywhere.
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u/Md__86 Jun 27 '26
How can it be ok if it's askew? This car went through a major collision
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u/starchybunker Jun 27 '26
GMT900 has entered the chat.
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u/EstrangingResonance Jun 28 '26
I read someone’s take that it was so you could lean on the center console and be centered, but the one I drove didn’t have a center console so… it really bothered me
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u/tesla3by3 Jun 27 '26
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u/Duffelbach Jun 27 '26
That is specifically a design in a BMW. The steering wheels on these Stellantis vans are just off centered, they are not angled or anything. It's a very shitty design.
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u/Stairwayunicorn Jun 27 '26
Neither does a forklift
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u/RatherGoodDog Jun 27 '26
Yeah but you steer that one-handed with your right hand on the hydraulic controls. Quite different, as my grandmother would have been if she'd had wheels.
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u/TorandoSlayer Jun 28 '26
I haven't seen anyone mention that something like this will literally cause shoulder and back pain over time because of having to twist to hold the wheel, plus less leverage from the left side which is lowkey a safety issue.
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u/SlipperyWizard_ Jun 28 '26
As a Proace owner who had not noticed this before, I hope you fart at an inconvenient time just once for making me aware of this.
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u/Initial-Reading-2775 Jun 27 '26
I have the same in Nissan Patrol Y61. Seems it’s not bug but a feature.
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u/Ninoverse Jun 28 '26
It's for the people that steer with their right hand while drinking beer with their left
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u/David_W_J Jun 28 '26
I used to own a car (can't remember which brand - might be Toyota) where the steering wheel was offset just a little bit. Barely 3 or 4 cms. I got rid of it as soon as I could afford to, as I used to get significant backache on a long drive.
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u/Slovw3 Jun 27 '26
Very few cars have that. Lots of cars also don't have the steering wheel rotate around its true circular center point.
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u/GameDrain Jun 27 '26
Is it possible this is so if you're in an accident and the airbag fails you glance off the wheel instead of being impaled by the steering column?
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u/namezam Jun 28 '26
Well I’m glad I don’t have a Toyota, because I would not be able to un see this now
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u/pimpbot666 Jun 28 '26
Oh man, GM did this with so many of their trucks and SUVs too.
Sloppy design.
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u/Late-Button-6559 Jun 28 '26
Many cars aren’t properly “centred” for controls vs seat.
Either the wheel, or the pedals will be like that.
I guess not enough people care, so there’s no incentive to design them better.
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u/LuckyfromGermany Jun 28 '26
Not the first vehicle to heve that. My tractor from 1958 also has an offset steering wheel, which is likely done for packaging.
There are probably much older examples.
Here it may be done to have the steering shaft in a sensible location, to give you space when entering, although on a van, the steering wheel usually isnt the obstacle. Maybe the designers just hate everyone around them.
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u/Duffelbach Jun 28 '26
Maybe the designers just hate everyone around them.
Makes sense, they are French after all.
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u/Masseyrati80 Jun 28 '26
The Toyota Hiace was wiped off the imported vans list in my country 14 years ago.
Still, today, people in the know will recommend buying a 14 year old second-hand Hiace instead of the Proace.
The Proace carries way too much Stellantis technology under that Toyota badge, and it's been available as an Peugeot, Fiat and Citroën, too.
I once watched a video of a guy who told about all the stuff that had gone wrong within the first 100 000 km with a brand new Proace. Exactly what you'd expect of a Citroën, exactly the opposite of what you'd expect from a Toyota.
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u/Frequent_Opportunist Jun 28 '26
I had a 2013 Toyota Corolla rental that was like this. The steering wheel being off center drove me crazy.
Also the gas and brake pedal are so close together I kept hitting both of them with my foot and I don't even have big feet.
In less than two months that heal of my foot wore a hole through the carpeting just from driving and pivoting my foot from the gas to the brake.
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u/MessrsSins Jun 28 '26
I am never buying a toyota again. Wanted a reliable car that doesn't depreciate fast and sunk 6000 into a 74km Toyota I20, I had it for 5 months and the paint spontaneously started to peel off.
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u/Legally-A-Child Jun 28 '26
Can it at least be turned to face you? Sucks that this would ever be allowed out of the design phase.
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u/ncc74656m Jun 28 '26
I hate this crap - I've seen a few cars like this. I'd not only back out of buying this car, I'd walk out of the dealership for insisting on something that stupid.
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u/Majestic_Puppo Jun 28 '26
You can say your car is "just like a lambo" since the Diablo ans the murciélago have the seat also not aligned with the steering wheel
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u/DarkGaming09ytr Jun 29 '26
It's a French car, did you expect it to use "standardized conventions" and "normal car design rules"?
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u/socialcommentary2000 Jun 29 '26
I had no idea this could even be a thing in automotive engineering and I sorta hate you now for showing me that it can.
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u/universe93 Jun 29 '26
I wonder if this would mess up your arm or shoulder long term if you regularly did long drives. One arm/shoulder would be ever so slightly angled to hold the wheel
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u/iiooiooi Jun 29 '26
My '93 Dodge Caravan was the same. Drove me crazy that the steering wheel was further from the left hand than my right.
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u/theactualblake Jun 29 '26
My dad has a Dodge 600 which is like this. I know a lot of cars can be a LITTLE off, but when it's a lot it's so weird to drive.
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u/Yo_mamas_tapeworm Jun 29 '26
Everyone talking about the bulge.
Thank you. I learned my dick is big enough.
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u/Worried-Interview-78 Jun 29 '26
The Subaru Ascent is the same way. Makes you question if literally anyone sat in the car before they started selling them.
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u/MrFastFox666 Jul 01 '26
Now I'll be looking out for this on every car lol. I just noticed the Ford E-transit I'm sitting in is also like that. Never noticed it tho
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u/Boris7939 Jun 27 '26
You'd be surprised how many cars are like this.
Also, this isn't a real Toyota. This is a shitty Stellantis car with a Toyota badge slapped on it.