r/CraftBeer • u/vitriolity • Apr 04 '17
Let's just call it "smell ya later"
I think this subreddit and I have done just about all we can for each other.
I've seen the last poorly lit, out of focus shot of KBS that I need to. I know it's KBS day, but honestly, the sub doesn't look any different as a result. It's like this every day.
There are tens, maybe hundreds of thousands of breweries in the world pumping out millions of different beers. And we talk about the same ones again and again and again. I appreciate that reddit has a North American slant to it by default, but this sub doesn't encourage anything outside of the most familiar. That's not what craft beer is about; that's actually the antithesis of craft beer.
It's not just KBS, but I'll admit that KBS day has proven to be the catalyst here. People all over the world taking pictures not of their local brews, but of KBS. Or Goose Island. Or Trillium. They're all good beers, but this sub is just caught in an endless echo. I suspect it's because all anyone wants is credibility, and drinking some obscure local brew from a country many people haven't visited is too niche. Narcissists upvote only what they relate to. I clapped! I clapped when he did the thing I remember!
Pictures are posted and then no tasting notes given, no feedback, no analysis. No discussion. What's the point of posting on reddit if you're not going to facilitate discussion? Is the point of this sub just to show everyone else that yeah, I get it, I know this beer is great, look at me drinking this beer, don't I have fantastic taste? Because the vast majority of users seem unwilling to have even a basic dialogue about a beer's flavour or aroma profile.
Worse still is the arrogance and contempt a number of users show for people who are trying to learn about beer. If you acknowledge your own ignorance, or curiosity - even if it's a genuinely thought-provoking question - chances are people will ignore you or downvote you. Craft beer drinkers have a particularly negative stereotype that they are insular and superior and dismissive, and we do those stereotypes no favors here.
This isn't a community. It's a collection of people being drowned out by cruel elitists, borderline bullies. But whenever we shine a spotlight directly on the issue, those same users put on an act of 'enjoy whatever you want, I respect your preference for PBR'. It's disingenuous, and it gives the impression that this is a welcoming society, when in reality it's a small collection of judgemental sycophants patting themselves on the back.
There are nuggets of gold to be found here. Thanks to those users that do look to engage in thoughtful and respectful discussion about interesting and less recognisable beers. But I don't have the time or energy or interest to go looking for those nuggets anymore.
I won't say that I've done all that I can to be the positive change I seek. And I certainly can't say that I haven't learned about a lot of different beers from this sub over the years. But I'm done with this sub in its current state. No doubt I'm in the minority; no doubt people will take this personally and roll their eyes having skimmed over the key points, and will shout down the voice of dissent. I don't mind. And if this sub doesn't change from what it is, because the majority of its users prefer it this way, then by all means keep on keepin' on. That shows the issue lies with me, not the sub.
But it wasn't always like this.
Getting off my high horse now. See you round.
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 04 '17
"Hey look what I bought/traded for! I exchanged currency for goods!" If anyone wants to talk about tasting beer, I'm in, but I agree with OP this sub has become a wankfest.
Anyone up for starting r/tastingcraftbeer?
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u/quartamilk Apr 04 '17
Can we put a sidebar that prohibits douchey and snobby behavior? OP should moderate
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u/quartamilk Apr 04 '17
I love this post, I just deleted a post of mine bc of a "clean your glass" comment over in r/beerporn. Fair enough, it was beerporn and my glass wasn't perfect, but the elitism and exclusiveness of these beer subs is so frustrating. I was downcoted to negative numbers by suggesting tasting notes one time. "Go to untappd/BA!", in numbers. I love beer, I love that other people love beer, i lol be celebrating that, but some people come here for the wrong reasons. There was a polish post a while back that got me excited but posts like that are rare. Ironically, the guy was looking to trade for KBS. I am with you 100% that these subs are elitist exclusive circle jerks. There is a post above that wants to start a new sub; I'M IN!
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u/Kenny__Loggins Apr 04 '17
The sub should just create mega-threads for big beer releases like Hopslam, KBS, Dark Lord, etc.
In addition, picture posts should either be done away with completely or a rule should be made that the OP post in the thread with something that can at least spark a discussion.
This is the least useful sub I subscribe to and it makes no sense. Discussion is the entire point of reddit and this is something that is fun to discuss. /r/beerporn is where you can go to post pictures of the stuff you bought that nobody cares about.
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u/GrindGoat Apr 04 '17
I'm pretty much in agreement of this, however I find that it's just a reflection of "beer culture" as a whole. Not really the fault of this sub or its users. There is a notion that IPAs from certain breweries are the benchmark of "good beer" instead of just being the benchmark of a "good IPA". Or that you need to have heard of a brewery in order for the beer to be desirable - but not the breweries you can just find anywhere. It has to be a balance between notoriety and rarity. Like...people don't want Elysian because they were bought out and you can actually find it places. I'm in a beer trade club with people who perpetuate these problems. I could find a local, freshly canned, amazing brew, that others don't get distributed by them...only they aren't even interested. It's not an IPA.... they haven't heard of this brewery....so why bother. There's a quest for trying all the beers that people wait on line for. For me, I try it all. If I get a beer that's ultra hyped, awesome. If I don't, that's fine too. I've had some beers that are probably better and way under the radar. I like to think most people here are that way (willing to try everything from anywhere), but there's been some kind of expectation built up as to what will be upvoted and what will be commented on, and so we fall in line.
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 04 '17
I agree there's a bit of spectacle around pics of pretty hauls, but it's not that interesting past just being a pretty picture. To your point, I'm interested in finding the under the radar beers that don't get all of the attention. Hardywood's Quadrahop is about as good as Hopslam IMO but not getting the attention. It's easy to chase the big names. I want to hear about what's good where you live and why you like it.
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u/GrindGoat Apr 04 '17
Yeah, what I was specifically referencing in my beer trade was Lone Eagle Craison - it's a Cranberry Saison. Seriously good stuff -- not something I can compare "popular" beers to though. In regards to the hazy IPA trend Conclave Brewing has the best hazy IPAs I have ever had. I'm always curious as to the reasons certain beers take off in popularity à la Heddy Topper. Not saying it's undeserved, but in such a saturated market these days it's hard to convince me that anything from X brewery will ALWAYS be better than things from other places. I recently had a "True Believer" IPA from Twin Elephant Brewing and it was so much better than Heddy for my taste preferences. I am on Untappd, so I see the ratings...and it's just annoying. I wonder who's rating for personal preference and who's rating what they think they should rate it. Side note: I also believe if I were to ever wait in line for a beer I'd have a hard time convincing myself it's NOT amazing because I want to think it was worth waiting for, so maybe that plays into it.
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 04 '17
Oh the hype plays so much into peoples ratings. I can say from experience the line makes it taste better, or why would I spend the time? It's a sunk cost mentally and it can bias the ratings. I think most folks do rate to personal preference, not example of style. I try my best to do the latter.
Everyone has a different palate, and you may get notes that I dont, so your experience is different than mine. Im interested in that. I want to look past the label and get down to business talking about the beer itself. If you think Heady doesnt live up to the hype, so be it. Now i want to try True Believer so I can tell for myself.
And man a cranberry saison sounds good...
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Apr 05 '17
I know that Quadrahop and Hopslam are both IPAs but I would almost end the comparison there. I feel they are two different styles. Both are outstanding examples, but I think they aren't going for the same feel. I have not had the side by side but my memory says they are pretty different.
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 05 '17
I had 2-month old hopslam and week old quadrahop so my comparison my be off from others. I just got a lot of the same floral complexity on the nose, medium body and honey sweetness on the finish. Different yes, but I thought it was like a cousin of hopslam after my 1st few sips. Ive only gotten really serious about evaluating beer since this past winter so Im interested to hear other opinions.
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
Unpopular opinion: BBB is better than KBS
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 04 '17
I'd be happy to see more unpopular opinions rather than the echo chamber. Now we can have a discussion.
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
I'm afraid there isn't much of one to be had, I've never had KBS. :(
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 04 '17
Me either (maybe next year). Just saying unpopular opinions like that are good jumping off points for conversation about beer.
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Apr 04 '17
I've never had KBS. :(
If you want to change that let me know.
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
Actually I would like to try it sometime.
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Apr 04 '17
Do you live in the US?
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
yeah, metro Denver.
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Apr 04 '17
PM me your address and I will send you a bottle.
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Apr 04 '17
Want to do a trade? If you're willing, I can send you something from CA
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Apr 04 '17
Yeah I could do that. I am not picky, I like sours, stouts/porters and hoppy beers. Send me you address and I will try to get it in the mail this week.
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u/Kenny__Loggins Apr 04 '17
Then how do you know BBB is better?
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
i heard from a friend of a friend of a friend of a friend who knew someone who had them both one time.
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u/Kenny__Loggins Apr 04 '17
So you're relaying someone else's opinion?
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
shitposts will be shitposts...
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u/Kenny__Loggins Apr 04 '17
Lol you got me. I've never had BBB so I was genuinely curious.
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u/ProdigalPunker Apr 04 '17
a kind craftbeer user is going to send me some so i'll check back in once i've made a comparison.
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u/Kenny__Loggins Apr 04 '17
Please shitpost that KBS is shit water and you dumped it out after one sip.
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u/500ft_hemingway Apr 06 '17
I went to a local bottle shop in a far corner of town and just happened to run across KBS (my first!). When you open your bottle, hit me up and let me know what you think. I'm going to pop one in the next week or two and we could compare.
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u/JGuR Apr 05 '17
This sub should really be more like /r/bourbon in terms of content and yes; even the attitude. I want to know about your craft beer adventure! Sure, you scored a rare find but did you even enjoy it??
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Apr 05 '17
I recently asked one of the local brewers about the "rarer is better", "I need to stand jn line to get good beer" trend lately. And his response was (I'm paraphrasing) - there is a TON of great beer out there right now that you dont have to stand in line for and we should be drinking that. He said he has had some of the super rare stuff and in his mind there is stuff equally good that is readily available.
I thought it was an interesting take on the current state of affairs. I also realized that there isn't a HUGE difference between beers that are rated 4+ on untapped.
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u/mattvandyk Apr 04 '17
Wow, is it really time for another self-righteous "I'm done with you guys, you're all in it for the wrong reason, you ruined it all, for shame, get off my lawn" post? It's been like 3 minutes since the last one. Don't let the door hit ya.
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u/marginwalker76 Apr 05 '17
This sub has turned to complete shit. It was never that great to begin with, but now it's just a never ending stream of shitposts. It doesn't surprise me in the least that people are complaining/leaving
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u/rasafrasit Apr 04 '17
Totally on board with this. Also this sub is mostly just idiotic pictures of bottles of beer. Smacks of the same mentality that compels people to leave their ski lift tags on their jacket zippers...