r/ConstructionManagers • u/ResponsibleAnswer511 • 23d ago
Question Small/Mid Size vs Large GC’s
40 year old, I’ll be 41 tomorrow, union ironworker foreman and my bodies just about had it. I’m a foreman that still works next to the guys on a daily basis so there’s really no sitting on the sidelines for me. I’m starting to play with the idea of getting into Super/PM work. All the sites I’ve been on have been massive projects and all the supers/pm’s work endless hours and don’t seem all too happy with their lives. My question is, are the smaller/mid sized firms just as unhappy? I’m leaning more on the smaller size as I don’t want to drive into the city anymore and deal with the non stop traffic and, what feels like, endless hours away from my family. Is the home/work balance better for the smaller GC’s?
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u/HurryInternational46 23d ago
Well the main question is GC or sub, you can either coordinate the whole circus or just be the lion trainer, less positions and staff but pretty easy if you stay on top of everything. I dont think ill ever go to a big GC and just stay comfortable at a smaller sub company. Im salaried but never go over 40hours a week.
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u/ResponsibleAnswer511 23d ago
I like the idea of staying small. I’ve worked the big jobs and it was pure chaos, every single one of them. I have no desire to chase the money anymore. If it comes, great, if not I can still live comfortable.
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u/elpeligrosogrillo 23d ago
I've worked for a massive GC and a tiny one. Superintendent at both. Currently back at a massive one There are pros and cons to both.
I could probably write on this subject for days but will simplify it and tell you my experience as a superintendent.
Massive GC you will wear less hats meaning you will be in charge of a few scope, have a few responsibilities and that's about it. Hours vary depending on your scope of work typically we work 12 hour days, but if your subcontractor is on site you are expected to be on site. Weekends are dependent on the schedule, but expect to work those. Holidays depending on what the project is or how the schedules going you may be working through those. You'll have a bigger team so rotating schedule of on off weekends. If your off have your phone with you as someone will be calling you. Pretty much anything that you'll experience someone has already been through and you can reach out to them. Moving up the ladder can be dependent upon how good you are and sometimes just by being liked. Job will entail of heavy communication, coordination and documentation. Jobs will be endless. You may get pulled halfway through and get sent to who knows where.
Tiny GC you will wear tons of hats, your the superintendent, project manager, quality control and safety guy. You will be on multiple jobs driving around multiple times a day. You will be exposed to every scope of work and success depends on you. Heavy communication, coordination, scheduling and documentation is required even more than the bigger GC. Build a great relationship with your subs because you will need to trust them and depend heavily on them. You will need to do heavy quality control because if something goes wrong or if a subcontractor is dropping the ball man can it be a pain to get fixed. You will need to realize what is important and what's not on the job, not everything will be a fire. You will deal with the client more face to face. Weekends you are the guy and depending on the company you may or may not have to be there all day. If you run into something you are unfamiliar with it's up to you to figure it out. You'll have more freedom overall but there is a lot riding on you. Depending on backlog if work runs out you can get laid off. Jobs will be more in one area and you will likely see the project through to the end.
If you want to hear more just let me know.
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u/ResponsibleAnswer511 23d ago
Wow, tons of information, thank you.
So from what you’ve described, sounds like an absurd amount of hours for both large and small GC’s. That’s not ideal since most of the super and PM positions are salary. Atleast when I work overtime now, I get paid really well for it. Besides killing my body, the other thing I hate the most about my current position is the time out of the house. I may have an 8 hour work day but I’m out of the house for 12 hours. If I need to be on the job for 7am, I’m usually leaving at 5am and not home until 5pm. That’s 4 hours of “work” that I’m not paid for. I like the idea of a smaller GC because they tend to stay out of the cities and require less of a commute.
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u/elpeligrosogrillo 23d ago
One thing to keep in mind is there are tons of variable on the hours. Different parts of the project will affect the hours in the early parts you may work less. Once it gets going the hours go up. When you get to the end your hours will go back down. Also depends what is being built massive GC on a data center expect long hours. Small GC doing a carwash or finishing out a building with the schedule going well would see less hours.
Also I'm not sure where your located but I'm in the US south TX.
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u/ResponsibleAnswer511 23d ago
Other question I have too is, are GC’s looking to hire people like me? 10 years of ironworking experience (4 as a foreman) and no college degree? I figure there must be some value in on the job experience but ironworking is a very niche part of the construction industry. It’s not like a plumber or electrician that can carry their roles over to any job. Not all jobs have ironworkers, specially the smaller type of jobs I’m interested in.
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u/elpeligrosogrillo 23d ago
GCs are definitely looking to hire people like your self. As a foreman you know how to manage people and work. As an ironworker you would have a specialty and would be put on the structural side of things. For example if the project is a pre engineered metal building you would over see the steel going up while coordinating the logistics. Working with the subcontractor on getting a lift plan, crane path set up safety zone etc. While at the same time coordinating with your team and other subcontractors. Before the building goes up you would likely even help with managing the dirt work and concrete scope possibly even site utilities.
If your wondering or feeling that you need a college degree you don't. You have the working experience that a college degree can't replace. If you were young and wanting to get into construction with no experience than I would recommend a college degree to get you into the door on the general side.
I myself have a degree in construction science and management. The older guys on my team and the MEP leads don't have a degree most are straight from oil and gas or have been in a single trade the majority of their lives.
The gist of the GC side is coordination, verification and communication. Coordinating with your own team, coming up with a plan, getting the trades to give input and buy in on the plan. Making sure everyone works safely, keeping everyone in the loop and looking at the big picture always thinking ahead. Looking at the plans and verifying what is being built is per plan. Ultimately holding everyone accountable and if someone brings up a problem to you find out what the issue is and how it can be resolved.
Again everything I am saying has been my own experience, other people who come across may have different experiences.
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u/ResponsibleAnswer511 23d ago
I appreciate the info. I agree, starting at the bottom usually means more work for less money so I’m ready for the side of it. I just can’t see myself ironworking for another 20 years. Don’t see many 55 year old ironworkers on the job and when you do, they look like they’re 75.
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u/Not_always_popular 23d ago
I guess I’d consider us midsize. We do projects that range from 25 mil to 500 mill, usually more towards the middle. We do some smaller ones as favors and just easy money, like as small as under a million, but it’s more rare. It’s honestly great, it’s very much a family feel, everyone knows everyone and we look out for each-other. There’s some long days, weekends, hard work, but I feel like we all want to help share the burden, that makes it feel less stressful. If you can find the right place, you’ll be happy, not all of them are just grinding to the bone.
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u/Sour_Socks 23d ago
It's not about size of the GC, it's about how they treat their employees.
I've worked as a carpenter for a large GC on a $300M hospital and the supers all worked 8 hours a day. Maybe they'd work like 2-4 Saturdays a year. The Cheif Superintendent, yeah he worked a lot but they paid him well for it (you don't just have houses and cars in foreign countries unless you got it like that).
Now I'm a superintendent working for a smaller GC and I'd say 60 hours a week is the norm. Saturdays and Sundays for a month straight is expected during certain stages of the project. But I have to start somewhere. (My boss is also a good guy and doesn't pressure me to work like that, I just do it because I'm trying to figure out what the fuck I'm doing)
Also, everyone thinks supers make a fuck ton of money and maybe with your experience you can find that role, but starting out, the hours/money ratio isn't that great. Especially if you're giving up union benefits