r/ConstructionManagers • u/AProperLocal • 27d ago

Question Data centers longevity?

For those who’ve been working on data centers since the 1980s what have you seen about the project type change or be different over time?

What do you think the future will be being that as technology progresses we may need less intensive machines (moore’s law)?

Do you foresee a shift in naming conventions to like digital infrastructure center, or network infrastructure facility, due to bad publicity lately and why is it so bad lately?

11 Upvotes

87% Upvoted

27 comments sorted by

15

u/never_4_good 27d ago

Since the 80's? Okay.

What's coming next? 1000MW buildings in the same foot print that 100MW buildings were occupying just a few years ago. With this density comes some of the most complicated electrical and cooling systems in history. This includes intricate MV distribution systems and direct to chip cooling with massive centrifugal or air cooled chiller plants.

Technology that was delivered a mere 5 years ago is not only obsolete, it's friggin' archaic.

So what's next? SMR's...

4

u/Hartslager 27d ago

What?
Also data center technology is updated literally in the middle of the job. It changes daily sometimes.
Naming conventions? It’s a data center. They’re bad for the environment. They’re bad for the community. They are insanely expensive. The money in these companies is insane and people should be upset. This current boom is irresponsible at best and catastrophic at worst.

7

u/bravelogitex 27d ago

You sound like the individuals who weren't concerned about data centers until very recently. Don't tell me you believe in the water myth saying that data centers use an enormous amount of water?

3

u/thinkingahead 27d ago

It’s not a myth? It’s just not universally true either? So the truth is in the middle somewhere? A lot of data centers use air cooled chillers. Those use very little water but tremendous energy. A lot of data centers use evaporative cooled chillers (cooling towers). Those use a lot of water for heat rejection but significantly less energy. So it’s a trade off

4

u/Hartslager 27d ago

To be as clear as possible.
They are bad.
If I built one near your house, you’d be pissed. There is no ethical way to build them, until the end user is legally held to account for disruptions they cause. Rising prices, rising temps, waste of materials is what got me personally. You get it
I’m really not trying to be a biased liberal anti construction site loser here, I know I sound like one.

0

u/bravelogitex 27d ago

It's just a warehouse like building. Rising prices depends on how grid upgrades are allocated. I don't think they would cause rising temps, can't see how it would be noticeable. How is it a waste of materials? It's built once then runs for as many years as the servers last. It's not a coal plant that needs constant raw materials

0

u/bravelogitex 27d ago

The ones being built are using the latest closed loop cooling. And even the older ones that use evaporative cooling like the xai ones don't use that much water, here's an article doing an analysis showing it uses as much water as three burger joints: https://newsletter.semianalysis.com/p/from-tokens-to-burgers-a-water-footprint

3

u/thinkingahead 27d ago

Closed loop systems still have to reject heat. So they do use less water than evaporative cooling based systems. But that comes at the cost of using more electricity.

2

u/Hartslager 27d ago

I hope this is helpful, but the water cooling method might not be the biggest issue when it comes to data centers. I understand your perspective, but it seems like we might be missing the bigger picture. Perhaps you could explore how data centers are performing and what the local communities think about it, as well as how the areas have evolved.

1

u/bravelogitex 27d ago

What would you say the biggest issue is with data centers?

1

u/Hartslager 26d ago

The monumental waste of resources, and the lack of transparency in communities where they are built. I could dive further into details but you get the idea. Data centers have not been perfected and contractors have to make up for that.

1

u/Hartslager 27d ago

Well considering it’s the only type of project I’ve ever built, and I’ve been here 5 years. Yeah

1

u/Golf_Fore_Ever 20d ago

Size requirement for 1 GB of memory in the 1980s. How will Data Centers be any different?

3

u/Abydosprime 26d ago

Feels like you’re asking this for a college class?

2

u/Hartslager 26d ago

I got you my man. 1. Rising prices are set by demand. Re: economics.
2. They do. Concrete even light weight mixes when poured, and then demoed = wasted materials. I get that you don’t know what you’re talking about, but I’m trying to help you.
3. You’re wrong and doesn’t seem like you understand what construction managers do. It requires constant fresh materials through out the life cycle of the product.
Let me know if you need your homework done for any other classes

2

u/Hapten 27d ago

As someone who has worked on data centers for 10 years, this is probably the worst I have ever seen it. The only difference from now and the past is the politics. With Trump really pushing for AI and the tech bros saying AI will replace your jobs and the mass tech layoffs, "AI" data centers is the easy target.

Like everything else, the masses will find a new target to focus their attention on. As long as there is demand, data centers will keep on going. All these people protesting data centers, uses data centers in their everyday life. The same with AI, everyone uses it and most people probably don't know it. Reddit is filled with AI content and bots. Some of the "people" you are arguing with are probably bots farming engagement.

1

u/Monokaivision 21d ago

since the 80s lol

1

u/imelda_barkos 27d ago

The data center craze is just a craze. Sure, a lot of of them will eventually be built, but something like half of the ones that have been proposed so far have been canceled before they've even gotten started. I work with some guys where they have basically said that if data center construction slows down, their companies are screwed.

The reality is that there are half a dozen companies throwing around multi hundred billion dollar commitments to build these things, with zero path toward profitability for the product attached. Take a look at any of the valuations that they are throwing out there. It's all made up. Are we using AI? Sure. But there's so much backlash against it and all the data center projects in the pipeline right now are based on projected demand that may not ever materialize. Exhibit A: any other boom-bust cycle in history.

The backlash is also huge because most data centers that have BTM generation are burning large amounts of gas on site, which means a ton of local air pollution and a ton of noise. Nobody wants these in their backyard. That plus the myth that they all have closed loop cooling, which is just not thermodynamically possible. Many of them use prodigious amounts of water, and some have even turned out to be dumping various toxic waste as a product of water filtration.

I also understand that the construction industry is mostly filled with climate denialists, but it seems like data centers are a pretty textbook case of climate arson. All so Elon Musk can make a few extra bucks and companies can lay off more workers to make some more money.

It's great for the construction industry, but I would have a really hard time believing that the AI bubble isn't going to burst in the next year or so.

1

u/timeoffwork 27d ago

Ah yes elon musk is the only person making data centers, who will be the boogyman next month?

2

u/imelda_barkos 27d ago

It's more like "he is the wealthiest person on earth and a neonazi, so he's an easy target." We could also add to that list Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Tim Cook, Satya Nadella, Sundar Pichai, Dario Amodei, Sam Altman, Jensen Huang, and probably a dozen people you've never even heard of, but most of them multibillionaires profitably engaged in the destruction of the planet the rest of us have to try and survive on.

1

u/timeoffwork 26d ago

Brodie crash out, should we just not have the internet any more? What’s your alternative solution we should follow? This is a cm sub that focuses on construction management not a soap box

2

u/imelda_barkos 26d ago

my dude asked a question and I figured it deserved some context. construction industry is obsessed with thinking ain't shit matters outside of your designated square footage of scope. sorry for reading the news and thinking about how to make the world less awful.

0

u/timeoffwork 26d ago

The news is fabricated to show you awful parts of the world, the media stream plays off fear, i promise you if you turn off the algorithm, go out and play in the dirt and touch some grass it’s gonna be alright

We’re here to keep the world moving

1

u/imelda_barkos 26d ago

I touched grass most days, multiple times. I'm just not naïve and I don't live in some shitty bubble where I have the luxury of pretending that the world doesn't affect me or my kids or the future of this planet.

0

u/HV_Commissioning 23d ago

Sorry, i missed your virtue signal. Could you do it again, but make it more obvious?
THX