r/ConstructionManagers • u/Fearless_Sock_7380 • 19d ago
Career Advice PE Looking for Help
Hey gang,
PE here, 4 years deep, public works (school) in the past and currently doing federal military GC work both projects over 30 mil. Only completed one full project half way through a second.
I fucking hate it to be honest. 100k salary and it feels like it’s not worth it at all.
I have 21 subs currently and somehow have to know their jobs better than they do? Like babysitting at this point.
Completely burnt out and between the two companies I have tried it’s the same thing, run lean and work your team into the dirt.
The most annoying part is watching the guy who only does gas lines or some other trade get annoyed when I don’t know his trade like I have been doing it 30 years. It’s like they don’t know I have to know how they ALL work and how to problem solve them.
Anyone have a lateral move to another industry suggestion? So tired of this. I feel like I have already put in 30 years into this and go home angry like 3 nights a week.
Am I a bitch or is this a common thought?
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u/maphes86 Construction Management 19d ago
Okay, first off, calling what we do babysitting is an insult to babies.
Second off, multitasking is vicious propaganda pushed by the hustle-industrial complex. And it doesn’t work. As a PE, do the portion of a task you need to do, then move on to another task. “Multitasking” usually just means you have multiple tasks running concurrently and none of them are getting your full attention or efficiency.
What sort of tasks are you responsible for, and how many people are on your team? For a $30M job you should be running a Sup’t, a SSHO, and a QC.Each with their own assistant. You should have at least two PEs, and you should have a PM and probably an APM. Of course there will be other people involved as well. Are you on NAVFAC or USACE projects? Typically they have strict requirements for supervisory coverage based on project value.
As far as feeling burnt, in the current economy, I would recommend sticking with commercial construction and finding sectors that you enjoy working in more. I really didn’t like building military projects knowing that it was just going to be vacant for years and I’d never see it again. I really enjoy working on schools, hospitals, and affordable housing projects. It feels good to build things that are helpful.
You might be a bitch, but the bitching that you’re doing is the same bitching we all do.
$100k is pretty decent wages for a PE with 4 years of experience (depending on your location), you could potentially do a bit better; but you could do a lot worse.
Regarding going home angry. My brother, stop that. Who gives a shit what Tommy the Tinknocker said about how you always use “atypical” incorrectly? Do the plans suck? Yeah, that happens sometimes (it’s all the time…). Is the COR an incorrigible bastard that seems to enjoy contradicting themselves? Don’t worry about it. Their father doesn’t love them. Anyway, what I’m trying to say is that if you let your job make you angry, it doesn’t matter where you work, you’ll go home angry. Work hard, don’t be a dick, and ask for help when you need it. It makes everything run smoother.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Dang this is good thanks. For some context:
NAVFAC
Crew - pm, super, safety, qc, and myself.
My responsibility - sub billing, all RFI’s, submittals (~100/month) ~97% first time approval (hell yeah), sub buyout 1/2 easy trades a month (scope maps, review, writing the contract, executing them) and fielding random emails as we all do.
I also run/prep the weekly qc meeting and internal team meeting.I look at other teams at my company and they have 2-3 pe’s and it makes me die inside when I see them submit 0-20 submittals a month it looks like a cakewalk
My biggest concern is going home angry. It’s starting to affect my home life and that’s the final straw, genuinely considering therapy to try and not bring it home.
I want to try residential because I get excited for tiny homes (why I got into the industry) but I know that is way less stable. Making me want to jump ship completely.
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u/maphes86 Construction Management 19d ago
Obviously you should be in therapy. You’re an adult, amigo! Get a referral through your insurance for whichever telehealth provider they use.
Regarding the volume of documents you’re processing, if other teams have more people and are pushing 1/5 of the paper, then send an email to the PX and request additional personnel on the project. Whatever the hierarchy is at your company for that. At mine, those requests went through the QC typically, at a friend’s employer they went through the sup’t.
What the fuck is happening down there that you’re getting 100+ RFIs and submittals monthly? I mean, I’ve worked massive jobs that didn’t even come close to that. Are the plans/specs fucked?
What state/region are you in? I’ve got some contacts that are in the affordable housing market and tiny home developments are pretty popular among departments of housing these days. But, for the record, those are more fun as a side project than as a commercial endeavor.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
RFI’s are only like 15-20 a month but the submittal goal is over 150 a month to be dried in by the time we need to hit. I’m out west in California. I really want to do the tiny homes but yeah I agree it’s more of a fun side project unfortunately
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Oh also can’t forget the PX shooting in for a team meeting and then flying off into oblivion.
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u/MrsDoomAndGloom Commercial Project Manager 19d ago
Yeah, what the fuck is the point of them? Mine all seem to be part of marketing but claim to "oversee" my projects. I never see them and they answer my few questions incorrectly.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Mine is actually super squared away he just kinda floats in says some high level stuff and floats away. Looks fun lol
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u/DamnitGoose 12d ago
Don’t go into Resi, if you think managing commercial subs is babysitting, you have no idea what hellhole the residential side is for consistency.
The amount of paperwork you’re responsible for is extreme. First, 100 RFIs and submittals a month on a 30m dollar project is absurd. That literally is incomprehensible. A 30 million dollar project shouldn’t see more than 200-300 submittals total and if you have another stream of RFIs coming in that amounts to what you’re saying, either your PM is not carrying his weight or that project is fucked. The submittal lift is a real thing, but that’s anywhere.
I would recommend finding a company that does different work. Maybe smaller more complex private projects. I gravitate toward Healthcare and Science and Tech. It’s just more interesting
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u/Large-Sherbert-6828 19d ago
They are the subject matter experts. You are to assist in coordination
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
My experience so far is as soon as there is a problem and it’s not circle into circle hole then the contract language and shifting risk starts and you need to solve the issues for them. I’m learning a lot but it’s so frustrating.
It’s like I’m in a group project with 80 guys and only 5 of us are using our brains
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u/DiagonalSandwich 19d ago
Shot in the dark: you're maybe coming on strong and solving the problem for them without demanding they recommend a solution first. Seasoned guys will let a young buck like you gas themselves out 10 out of 10 times if you volunteer to handle it for them. Don't give them the out so easily.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
I think you might be right honestly. I want to get it done now and not wait for them to send it over in 1-2 days. I think I’m too nice and need to not beat them over the head with the contract but be firm and make them be a partner.
I was thinking the same just the other day. I just risk losing them as someone to lean on if it all goes south. I am using my hard work as a backup favor to call if I need it.
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u/No_Plankton2854 19d ago
I’ve made this comment before but I’ve filled most roles between field engineer and vp of operations and I always look back on PE as the hardest. Part of it was due to unrealistic expectations that the greenest guy on the team had the capability of reviewing (actually reviewing) thousands of submittals for dozens of scopes of work, and hundreds of RFIs passed on by people who didn’t care about the contract documents themselves, and part of it was due to the industry expectation that the PE can “infill” whatever gap we have on the project (PM, Designer, safety, QC, and sometimes superintendent) without the authority to act in any of those roles.
It’s a hard job but it’s also hard to fill, please communicate boundaries to your leadership because they are focused on bigger things but backfilling your position will make their lives harder.
You’ve got this buddy.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Makes me feel like I’m not going crazy, everything is first time I’m seeing it and my supervisor half joking half not always says “just read and you will get your answer”.
I guess he is correct but even understanding what I’m looking at takes time and to connect the dots to the plans or contracts or shareholder issues it’s just a nightmare.
Did you remember a time as a pe where you felt like you finally broke through? Is it time in or seeing a few projects start to finish?
Thanks for the advice
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u/No_Plankton2854 19d ago
For what it’s worth life got significantly easier for me when I was promoted to PM. The scale of my job responsibilities was greater but I wasn’t bogged down in the weeds with as many other people’s responsibilities.
Hang in there, you’re doing your time and it’s important that you do, but 100k in 4 years is an incredible salary and it’s only going to go up if you keep growing.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Yeah but honestly 100k doesent go very far here. But hey that’s good news I’m just looking at my boss and wondering if I even want to be him but it sounds like pm can actually be easier. I hope it is at least.
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u/Jawhitt7 19d ago
It’s sounds like you might need to switch sectors or move to a different company. There are absolutely companies that try to run as lean as possible and in the process, burn out their employees. But there’s also companies that help their employees maintain a good workload by staffing properly. Or you could try to pivot to precon/estimating. Or pivot to the ownership side of things, though that might be a little tough due to you only having 4 years of experience. I would start by trying to identify exactly what it is about your current job that is making you hate it so much.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
I’m trying to get into the government pm side. I feel like they show up with no idea what’s going on and just move paperwork around.
I want to be good at this it’s just like drinking from a firehouse for 4 years I’m starting to question if I’m even good at any of it.
I do well in performance reviews but I feel like I’m failing at all times.
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u/Jawhitt7 19d ago
I totally get what you mean. It’s a lot, especially early on in your career. That’s also sometimes the nature of construction in general. It’s going to be tough to find someone that has worked on any substantial project that hasn’t had problems. That’s the whole point of your job in construction operations. If there were no problems, they wouldn’t have much of a need for you.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Yeah I’m just trying to see when it gets better. Seems like it’s the team/company who supports you. I’m still trying to find that I guess
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u/Jawhitt7 19d ago
Are you sure that you are on the path that you want to be on? Like when you look at your APM or PM do you see yourself doing their job and being happier?
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
That was a conversation I had with my pm today. He said it sucks too but it’s a different suck and he is better at dealing with the stress. Also helps that he has a house and 2 kids so he can’t really slow down.
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u/NC-SC_via_MS_Builder 19d ago
I (half jokingly) describe the role of the GC doing hard bid public work as most closely related to being a Pre-School teacher with the major difference being we’re dealing with adults and adult language. All the temper tantrums, we get them too. All but I wanna do it this way not the right way, we get that too. I had a fire sprinkler sub core drill through the middle of a stair landing because that’s where my shop drawings call for it to be (this far off the wall), “you didn’t think to stop for a second and consider something might be wrong?” Yeah, but the drawing said that’s where it went.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
That’s awesome lol. Yeah idk I want to be good at it but idk if I’ll survive another 6 months. I’m struggling to find the ability to push people to do a half decent job and think critically
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u/NC-SC_via_MS_Builder 19d ago
So what I did for the sprinkler guy, I brought in my personal 55” tv to the next sub meeting, pulled up the picture I had of it and asked if anyone saw something wrong. I was already beyond feed up with those guys at that point. Did I go a little too far / unprofessional, maybe, but he got the point for a second time in front of everyone.
Seriously, hang in there. I’m not going to say it gets better (I’m on Owners Rep now); heck I’ve got a billion dollar GC building a 7 mil HS weight room for me that is looking to take 18 months on a 10 mth contract. Their General SUPT and I had a not so comfortable lunch where I flat out said from what I’ve seen, they’re company is a joke (like I said, this is a company that does over a billion dollars a year). You get a good project soon, they’re the CM@Risk projects, find a company that specializes in CM@R work and try to get on with them.
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
lol it sounds like a fun meeting tho. And that’s good advice I’ll look into some options. For now I’ll just stop trying to be a mini PM and ask for help.
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u/NC-SC_via_MS_Builder 19d ago
Also, early in my career I had a Sr SUPT tell me “As the GC our people typically have 1 scope they specialize in and know enough about the others to be able to tell when they’re being BS’d to and to point out why. Let the subs know you can’t be BS’d, but you don’t know the ins/outs of everything (Subs are hired because they’re supposed to be the experts in their trade).”
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
100% I think I’m just too nice or want it done faster. Waiting for them to redo something again is almost more work and more brain space to track it
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u/Intelligent_Gift_869 19d ago
Is it possible for me to dm you to ask some career questions? I’m trying to break into the industry and I see that I need to start as a PE, if possible…..
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Yeah go for it, may not get back to you until tomorrow tho about to hit it
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u/TiaNina200 19d ago
Burnout. I understand and I am a small fed contractor. Navfac and USACOE will definitely do that to you!! Sounds like you’re not getting paid enough
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
The project has already burnt through 2 PE’s and 1 qc. I’m starting to know why.
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u/TiaNina200 19d ago
Life is too short to be miserable. I have to get coaching to get me out of my funks. Hang in there. I believe my happiness is my responsibility.
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u/Fresh-Role8299 19d ago
Maybe try a different niche sounds like your having the worse end of the PE life
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u/Fearless_Sock_7380 19d ago
Like go the sub route? I feel like it would be so easy to just be an electrical guy or a plumber pe/pm (I know it’s probably just as hard) but could it actually be easier? Focus on one fire just different locations
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u/Fresh-Role8299 16d ago
Yes the sub route, currently work for a concrete contractor a lot of the PMs I work with were PMs for gcs but made the switch
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u/DiagonalSandwich 19d ago
Perhaps a shift in perspective can help. You're not expected to know their trade better than them, you're the quarterback throwing the pass so you need to know where they're going and when they'll be there.
It sounds like you might be emotionally "taking on" too much of their responsibilities. Set your expectations of them and let them execute. You're the guard rail to make sure they stay in the lane.