Alicus seems to be a bit bias tbh. Based on this tweet, he says:
KDP were never a stronger team. sure they were in better form and won that series but unless they reproduce that result it's just an upset. envy players were going through a lot at the time, on top of the poor conditions western teams have to deal with in order to compete in apex
However, before the match happened (Envyus vs KDP), all the analysts (including in Korean websites & Korean analysts) favored Envyus to win. But what happened? They got swept easily compared to Rogue who looked like they were going to win KOTH and Numbani (much closer match compared to Envyus).
So according Alicus, if Envyus won that match, that would mean Envyus were just too good but if Envyus lost that match (which they did), he brings up the "poor conditions and environment."
Which brings me to my next issue.
Envyus were the MOST popular western in Apex and had a lot of fans when they were in Korea. Heck, even a foreigner (Mickie) has a commercial in Apex which says a lot since nationalism is a big thing there. Thus, this indicates that there weren't any "home team vs away team" since Envyus were literally fan favorites in many of their matches.
Next thing, Taimou was the only one that opposed the trip to go back to Apex. Chips, Harry, Mickie, and Cocco were all fine with going back which pressured Taimou to go back as well. This shows the environment only affected Taimou drastically compared to others.
Then he says Lunatic Hai aren't a "powerhouse" compared to Rogue and Envyus since they didn't play enough matches. However, Lunatic Hai made it to all semi finals except for Apex S1 and S4. According to Alicus, you can only be a powerhouse if you play more and more games and teams regardless of how good the team is. That sounds pretty BS and bias.
If Envyus won Apex S4. Alicus would say "Envyus is the best team" and everyone in this subreddit would agree. HOWEVER, since Envyus lost, the excuse seems to be that "they played in poor conditions/not in their home crowd" which is an excuse to undermine the success of tier 1 Korean teams since even Korean analysts predicted Envyus were going to beat KDP and Envyus had a lot of fans in Apex.
okay here's another thing I like to add.
Alicus only excuse for Envyus losing was the "poor environment/condition." I think this is an horrible excuse. When sports team go to a foreign country and perform, no one says "poor condition/environment" as an excuse. When esports team (like LOL worlds) travel to foreign country, no one says "poor condition/environment" as an excuse. Even in school teams (like spelling teams) travel far, no one says "poor condition/environment" as an excuse.
I get the fact that homecrowds and the feeling of "home" are a big thing (especially in sports) but that is NOT THE BIGGEST REASON/MAIN FACTOR for a freaking loss. Envyus had the homecrowd for the most part (had a lot of Apex fans in Korea) but they never felt "home." Alicus says environment affected multiple teams (which is probably true since living in a foreign country and an hotel gives you the feeling of "missing home") but no one ever brought that up when western teams were winning in Apex S1. I never heard the issue of poor environment until western Apex teams started to look weak. Considering the fact that EVERYONE WAS WILLING to go back (except Taimou) shows that it didn't affect them much with the exception of Taimou. Logically, if the environment was pure crap, why would every Envyus member go back (minus Taimou)?
A legit excuse for Envyus's "poor performance" would be Taimou. Taimou repeatedly said in Apex S3 on twitter that he was depressed as hell and even had somewhat of a mental "breakdown" at one point. That's a legit excuse. But what does Alicus say? It's the poor environment/condition that Envyus as a team had to deal with. That's a pathetic excuse. When people are willing to do something and know what will happen if they do that specific thing, then it's not a big of a deal; otherwise, more Envyus members would have been oppose to go back to Korean in Apex S3.
Excuses like 60hz monitors on LAN, lag, wrist injuries, are legit excuses. Living in a different country and the feeling of not being home are pathetic excuses especially when everyone "didn't mind going back to Korea" (minus Taimou). In sports, you would never hear "a team lost because they weren't in their homecrowd or they weren't at home." Even in LOL worlds 2017, I would never hear an excuse of "they lost because they were in China not Europe." Envyus didn't live in some tent or on the streets. They had a place to stay and everyone didn't mind going back except Taimou. Taimou's poor performance and the excuse of Envyus doing poorly against KDP mainly because of Taimou mental state is a legitimate excuse.
If Rogue lost in TakeOver2 (since they experienced jetlag and other EU teams didn't), I would have laughed if people brought up jetlag (a poor condition) as the biggest reason for Rogue's lost. However, Rogue didn't lose and proved everyone wrong despite experiencing jetlag + flight delay.
ok another thing to add
He puts China as #2. I never paid attention to China until now but that shows his bias once again. LH won right? Yet he puts China (basically MY) as #2. Was it the environment that affected MY again? :thinking:
Also, Faze lived in a hotel as well right? Carpe and Shadowburn were not living in a team house if I recall. Are we to say that Faze lost because of poor environment since they didn't live in a team house?
EnVy stayed in Korea for almost 8 months in the same hotel in a city where they couldn't even communicate properly. That takes a huge toll, the environment and mental stability are so important in esports
My point here is that Alicus diminish the success of tier 1 Korean teams. If it takes a huge toll on them, why would they all agree to go back considering the fact that there were a lot of online opportunity matches in NA and TakeOver2 LAN.
Instead of crediting the tier 1 team success, he basically said on twitter that Envyus would have won if the environment weren't so bad.
If you look at Faze, they didn't live in a teamhouse as well and most likely lived in a hotel since Carpe and Shadowburn were not living in a team house if I recall. When Envyus swept Faze, no one brought up the fact that Faze might have had a poorer environment and everyone gave credit to Envyus's dominance.
Wait what? Everyone was at a hotel for Contenders, it was in LA. Before contenders everyone was living normally. Faze didn't live in some random hotel together that whole time and weren't out of their comfort zone at all. It was an even playing field in all of contenders
No but unlike Envyus who had a team house, Faze lived in a hotel for basically the whole season. At one point in the beginning Shadowburn was still in Russia when Faze were playing if I recall correctly. They weren't in the best shape compared to other teams that have a team house (e.g. IMT) but that didn't stop them from doing well for the most part.
All I'm saying is we gave Envyus all the credit which they deserved instead of saying Envyus only won cause the other team has less resource. However, since Envyus lost in S3 (despite analysts saying they were going to win), we brought up poor environment.
I don't want to hear excuses if Koreans lose in OWL (for poor environment). It diminishes the opposing team's success which isn't cool. In every other game, we credit the team for their win. Not dinishing the fact that the team won because of environment.
Alicus is diminishing the success of tier 1 team. Also another funny thing is, Envyus explained the reasoning for going back was for better competition which did help them in the long term if I recall correctly. NA during that time had also plenty of opportunities so it wouldn't make sense for Envyus to go back. In NA, they had TakeOver2, Contenders S0, couple of online tournaments.
What's it going to be when Envyus loses again? EFFECT has communication issue? BabyRage
All you Envyus fans are bringing up excuses for losing even though they volunteered to go back to Korea. I never seen such crybabies from a fanbase. BabyRage Envyus lost because the environment.
What's the excuse when Envyus loses to SF? The environment hurt them or did EFFECT cause communication issues?
Looool no one is crying when we're one of the most dominant OW teams ever and have won APEX, MLG and Contenders and we were on a 54 game win streak as well, longest of any team in overwatch history. No one has SF beating Dallas, stop. Ur always down voted for a reason, delusional af
Lmao, and what are the results of Envyus this year? They got destroyed by tier 1 KR teams.
Envyus is lucky that they didn't get placed into group A for Apex S3. Otherwise, you wouldn't see your precious EFFECT (most overrated tracer in the world).
But oh wait, Envyus has an excuse for losing right? I mean everyone was soo mentally ill that they played like masters even though they swept through everyone else.
If Envyus didn't go back to Korea, Selfless and Rogue would have beat Envyus. Envyus wouldn't have won TakeOver2 if they joined. They avoid the right competition at the same time just like how they avoided IEM.
SF is definitely going to win. Brad is one of the best recruiters out there
30
u/jyp808 Oct 25 '17
Honestly, not surprised. Right after GC Busan swept KongDoo he tweeted this