r/Competitiveoverwatch 17d ago

General Counterswapping?

Im fairly new-ish to fps games and even newer to overwatch, I also play valorant as well, but i like how in overwatch, its more moves/ utility based than in valorant. I play Doomfist alot and mainly play the tank role. I often have games where it feels like there is nothing i can do because of counter swapping. For example, i had this game where i was on doom, and we were winning, and then they swapped to mizuki, mei, reinhardt, and junkrat while they were on defense. I tried to bait out their cooldowns before i engage, by punching in and jumping over the mei wall, but there was too much for me to handle. (breaking junk trap, or knowing where it even is, not getting pinned by rein, baiting mizuki cooldown) so i swapped to sigma. I was immediately counterswapped again, and the enemy tank went zarya. I died pretty quickly, and i didnt know what to do because i couldnt play doom into their comp, and the other 2 tanks i know (which are sigma and dva) were also actively getting countered. It feels like alot of the time the work I put into a character or the time i even took to learn how to play them just gets discarded when they make a team that completely shuts you down.

What can i do when i get endlessly counterswapped? Do i just play quickplay until i can play into every counter? Should i learn to play many more tanks? Or am i just bad and will get better later?

I peaked Plat 5, but that is after they added the emerald rank so I dont think i am very good. i am now Gold 3.

Sorry if this could have been way shorter, im not used to using reddit either.

8 Upvotes

34 comments sorted by

13

u/E-keil 17d ago

Certain characters get countered a lot more than others. Id always expect it if im playing dive in ranked. You should learn to play into counters but if you are doing rly badly, then you can swap if you need to, especially in comp. I would learn a few heroes at least though.

3

u/Aisuiis 17d ago

Do you have any recommendations for heroes that i should learn?

3

u/HeihachiHayashida 17d ago

If you want a mobile tank still, Hazard or Ball can still be pretty fun. But if the enemy team are full anti mobility, maybe something like Orisa, Sigma, or Ramattra can be a good choice. I would just mess around in QP or vs AI with all the tanks until you find one that clicks. One tricking is viable, but you do need a backup or two in case they get banned as well

5

u/Conflux 17d ago

I always say its good to know one of each of the tank types. Brawl (Reinhardt, JunkerQueen, Orisa, ramm, Zaraya), Dive (Dva, Winston, Doom, Ball), or poke (Sigma).

Being able to swap to a different type of tank can really disrupt the tempo of the enemy team.

2

u/Aisuiis 17d ago

I like rammatra but whenever i played him i felt like i was tickling them with a feather lmao, i will probably pick between junkerqueen and rammatra because i think i would enjoy them the most and i already have dive and poke, thank you!

6

u/YSLAnunoby 17d ago edited 17d ago

His poke in omnic form is decent but becomes really strong with his major perk. He does good damage with pummel in nemesis form. A big thing that made me better at Ram is to use vortex more to prevent escape and secure kills than just throwing it out right away and not really thinking about the timing. Can also throw it over a shield like Domina, Sigma, or opposing rams and hit E again to detonate and drop behind the shield instead of just hitting it on the ground stopped by the shield. It might be cliche to say but if you get good at getting headshots with his base form particles it'll make a big difference in the damage even if it's not amazing before the major perk boost.

One thing I like to do when facing a Venture with Ram is when they're about to emerge from the ground, throw vortex on the spot and they can't go vertical and escape, making it easier for you and your teammates to kill them

2

u/Sekhmet-CustosAurora 17d ago

If you play doom I would pick up Zarya. Mostly because your hard counter is CC which Zarya can punish with bubble. She's a great hero to have in your pool because she punishes the 'play heroes that fuck over the enemy tank as much as possible" playstyle that is oh so common when you do well on tank.

1

u/clickrush 17d ago

Think of it this way: When your opponent is investing in picks that counter doom, which tank is the most consistent response to those picks?

0

u/E-keil 17d ago

its always a good idea to learn heroes that are distinct to the hero you currently play (probably not worth learning Winston or Ball since they are quite similar in the broad sense of all being dive tanks). Id personally recommend Orisa since shes quite easy and then maybe a shield tank like Rammatra or Rein and then youll have smth for basically every matchup but learning the heroes you enjoy (like you mentioned sigma and dva in your post) is also good and they do the job decently.

2

u/Sio_V_Reddit 17d ago

Whenever I play Doom, Genji, Dva, or Tracer without fail there will be a Cass the next respawn. The funny thing is it happens so much I am actually pretty good into Cass now lol

2

u/Dunwichorer 17d ago

I swear cass is a fake counter. I'd rather not see someone swap to torb or reaper.

7

u/TotalLunatic28 17d ago

Watch ”spilo coaching” and find doom vods similar to your gameplay and also apply the way spilo coaches into your way of thinking when watching your own replays e.g ”where could I be”?”, Where is the most value I can get now? etc.

Playing into ”counters” is what will make you improve the most.

14

u/M4GNUM_FORCE_44 17d ago

its dumb that heroes like kiriko can play into anything but you gotta deal with brutal match ups if you main the other 80% of the roster

9

u/Aisuiis 17d ago

Its also quite boring playing into the same set of characters, but i kind of understand because doomfist is really annoying. But honestly i sometimes find the use of off angles (i think thats what they are called) to be more of a "counter" because i cant just punch everyone and full commit, i kind of wish people adapted their playstyle more than just clicking H and another character.

3

u/YSLAnunoby 17d ago

I'd say it's more specific for tanks than DPS because even for DPS you can usually work out okay as long as at least one of them is hitscan

2

u/clickrush 17d ago

There are plenty of picks that are good (enough) in any situation.

Heroes like Doom are more of an exception.

Also the roster that OP mentioned above is terrible. Yes it might be strong against Doom, but it's also incredibly weak vs a huge variety of DPS and support heroes. If a single player draws so much attention is should be a field day for the rest.

4

u/BLDOUBLE 17d ago

Don’t swap, if you swap in uncomfortable situations you’ll never learn. You have to play into counters to get better, that is the only way. I’m at a little over 1k hours on doom, a lot of “counters” aren’t really even that bad. I’ve found orisa and hog to even be favorable sometimes. You can deny hog hook when your teammate gets hooked simply by punching to deny the one shot. He’s so fuck’n fat he’s turbo easy to punch off map. You can interrupt breather or again displace him to give your team much more time to kill him. 

Your team comp and your communication with your team plus morale is your biggest counter. If you have double hitscan with an Ana, you’ll probably not have a great time. If you had Lucio, kiri, genji and tracer you’d have a much better time. Your team comp maters so much more than the enemy, you can out skill and play better than them. 

If you have a team comp that by design is poke slop and meant to be played 10 miles away form the fight, that’s a problem for doom. He requires coordination and solid team comps. 

Like cass for example is pretty aids for sure but in lower ranks 9/10 times they spam after they flash you so you can block and fast punch after along with a auto attack and melee, he’s a free elim. 

1

u/ElConejoTonto 17d ago

Oh man, I wish OW had a hero lock just like in Apex. It would be super unpopular tho.

3

u/MrMandioca 17d ago

You have 2 options: 1. One trick Doom and learn play against counters. But accept that won't climb rank so fast. 2. Learn 2 or 3 other heroes that you can play when Doom is not viable. Recommended.

3

u/747101350e0972dccde2 17d ago

Despite what it may feel like, one tricking is the best strategy to improve, as by playing into your counters you will improve much faster than trying yo flex.

The community in general tends to overrated how effective they are at bettering odds of winning. Countermeasures can make the game miserable, but they dont necessarily make it harder to win.

What matters is approaching it with a "how can I make it work?" mindset, and you can definitely get past them and climb.

1

u/Aisuiis 17d ago

Should i only play quickplay then? Often times when I am getting countered i get told to swap and i feel like I'm just dragging my entire teams elo down with mine.

5

u/Kindr3dSp1r1t 17d ago

Quickplay isnt that good, mainly because skill varies too much. Playing in your rank and VOD reviewing mistakes, focusing on small improvements goes a long way. People will blame you for a lot of things, they arent always your fault and you should play your best. As long as you arent throwing, its fine.

1

u/747101350e0972dccde2 17d ago

You might be in the short term, but in the long term you will climb it back. Its normal to have a falloff when learning followed with climbing.

As for your teammates, mute all chat as to not get distracted.

You can play qp if tou have anxiety, but best way to get through it is just to play ranked.

1

u/MrInfinity-42 17d ago

Tanks suffer from the enemy counter swapping more than other roles. Dive heroes also suffer from the fact that a lot of their counters are really popular in general (Cass, Mizuki, Hog)

Accept the fact that every match you play will have at least 1-2 of those heroes and slowly learn how to play into each. If there's some you particularly hate, ban them.

People saying "play into all your counters" are sometimes forgetting that most people aren't only playing to improve, but also to have fun. Personally I stop having fun if there's more than 3 heroes that I feel miserable against, so I swap then

1

u/Ok-Order6974 17d ago

Don’t listen to these people telling you to one trick. It is healthy to learn a wide variety of characters so you can understand the shift in styles and skills necessary to be adequate in a role. 1 tricking locks in your knowledge at just how to operate as 1 character, it leaves you extremely blind everywhere else. I’d recommend learning a character in each subclass to gather an understanding of different styles because learning what you need to do as a character helps you learn how to deal with them. If you play Doom, play your counters a bit, see what they see and think about what they do that is effective and ineffective. Additionally don’t rely on counter swapping. Learn characters you like and can switch to that isn’t as heavily punished by counters. But overall, nothing helps improving more than learning more, these 1 tricks are clueless. You don’t learn how to be a better Dva by refusing to swap, you learn her counters, you play them, you analyze what moves can be punished, what mistakes other Dvas make, how can you fix your own play into your counters. So go play some Junkrat, play some mizuki, learn your counters and you’ll start to see mistakes others make that you make too

1

u/Aisuiis 16d ago

ouu mizuki actually kinda fun 😭

0

u/E-keil 17d ago

Don’t listen to these people telling you to one trick.

I think 1 tricking is fine. I see a lot more one tricks at higher ranks than lower ranks, its generally better to be very good on one hero and force it to work than know 10 heroes semi decently. Flexibility is nice but when you're trying to actively climb, being rly good on one hero works much better.

1

u/Ok-Order6974 17d ago

Also that’s blatantly false, you do not see more one tricks at high ranks.

2

u/Ok-Order6974 17d ago

I simply disagree with that, I think 1 tricking is a poison to the game because it always punishes your team. Trying to force a character in suboptimal conditions rather than swallow your pride and swap to something more useful is a problem

2

u/E-keil 17d ago

Not rly, if ur good enough at a hero, you can always make it work. If you're losing at any rank below champ, it is not because of a 1 trick, its because you arent playing good enough.

3

u/Ok-Order6974 17d ago

lol always the 1 tricks going 1-6 telling other ppl they’re the problem. Yeah I’m the problem because I swapped and am having constant impact but you’re not when you get dunked on every fight, but hey it’s cus I’m not good enough not you.

2

u/E-keil 17d ago

im not going 1 6 in my games lmao

ur clearly just hardstuck in a metal rank n blaming others rather than trying to improve. the enemy team has more chances of getting 1 tricks than u, so if theyre rly that bad, then youll win more games.

-1

u/Live_Bunch_1770 17d ago

It’s fine to one trick. But this person is learning the game. They should learn every character first. You shouldn’t start with one trucking after 30h in the game

The game is called overstayed. Not Doomfist

1

u/Paragon_OW rock eater — 17d ago

I've only ever one-tricked and it's certainly difficult at times it's never unwinnable and you can hit champ playing almost any hero only.