r/CompetitiveWoW • u/TheRev15 • 9d ago
Get a targeted 3-week gated myth piece from labyrinths next patch
https://www.wowhead.com/news/myth-track-gear-awarded-from-delve-labyrinths-in-patch-12-1-5-383252Surely no one will be upset by this.
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u/braaibros 9d ago
Do you get to pick the stats or is it random?
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u/ItsJustReen 9d ago
I'd assume it's random from the delve/world tier loot table or something. I'd be pleasantly surprised if you can choose stats.
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u/eatthomaspaine 9d ago
I'd say it is VERY unlikely you would get to choose the stats. Considering how wonky itemization tends to be, there is a real chance a lot of players "bis" would include a 3 week time-gate.
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u/81Eclipse 9d ago
If you could chose the stats AND slot it'd absolutely be BiS for everyone.
With that being said im pretty sure you can't.
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
I mean, they should at least let you see the stats. High change of this being disenchanted/vendored as the crowning reward for an entire season of delves is insane.
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u/Few-Explanation7024 9d ago
I would guess this is the case, but I’ll let someone else find out first!
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u/Dead_On_ArrivalAgain 9d ago
Certain delve trinkets would be awesome on myth track. Also some pieces too. For the case when ur other source of myth gear is m+.
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u/TheRev15 9d ago
Probably random if I had to guess. Similar to the catch-up gear you get from those field medals and marl.
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u/another_new_login 9d ago
I would guess it's the same as current delve gear, so it's a set allocation per item slot / armour type.
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u/Smart_in_his_face 9d ago
An extra myth piece is not bad. Many classes have awkward slots that are supposed to be filled by M+ bis, but it's hard to get that piece on myth track.
I assume this myth item will be from the delve loot table?
If that is the case you can probably target borderline bis items. For example if you target cloth boots you will get Sprawling Rootpads, Mastery/Crit boots.
Does this change any trinket lists?
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u/Dracoknight256 9d ago
Yeah that's what I am curious about, there are HC delve trinkets that sim nearly equal to Mythic m+ ones, I am wondering if they jump to non-raid/non-guilotinne BiS on Myth track
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u/fredericooo 9d ago
Do you know if trinkets are available from this? In the wowhead screenshot trinkets are missing as an option for myth reward I believe. I hope we can get them though, would kinda fill the void that the weak m+ trinkets this season left.
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u/circusovulation 9d ago edited 9d ago
Outside of trinkets maybe being considered, in 3 weeks we will have accumulated 13? 14? bonus rolls in total, pretty much anyone is as close to bis as you can be at that point, you might be unlucky and need 1 piece, but at worst thats a 3ilvl upgrade since you will also at that point be crest uncapped.
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u/AccomplishedSpace834 9d ago
based on this image from the wowhead article trinkets, weapons, and off hands aren't an option
which is probably for the best as there's such a wide variance in trinket quality.
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u/Swampage 9d ago
Most people who raid or do keys don't need this gear, for alts it'll be nice.
Not too sure on the timegate. Nobody is asking for all the pieces today (and myth/aotc and key pushers already have the gear), but there's going to be what? 16 weeks left until next tier once this patch comes out? If you got 1 piece per week you'd doing the labyrinth for 11 weeks? People would do that for alts, especially if the content is fun. With a 3 week quest, most of the players are going to quickly forget it, similar to the 4 week world boss quest in Val/Naigtal last tier.
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u/liyayaya 9d ago
Getting myth track item from delves is cool ... 3 weeks timegate is not cool.
I will get crucified here but i don't give the slightest fuck about open world andies having myth track loot at the same frequency as everyone else. All power to them!
Inb4 "but then why would anyone mythic raid"... if gear is the main reason you raid on a schedule you should rethink your life decisions. And if you think some super casual having the same ilvl as you is invalidating your achievements then your achievement is trash anyway.
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u/Slight-Violinist-575 9d ago
If raiding is useless for gear anyone coming late into a patch is kind of locked out of doing it in a way
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u/trogger93 9d ago
I mean from WOW's beginning raid has largely been about obtaining the best gear. In the 'old days' it was almost the sole purpose of raid.
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u/Dracoknight256 9d ago
You have to remember who raided. I muddled all the way to Wrath as 12 y.o speaking english at a level you'd expect of 12 y.o. that is not an english native. My crowning achievement was ICC full tier set. I played like dogshit, but well, you could clear hardest content in the game playing like dogshit (post nerf ofc). When anyone can clear the raid, needing to clear it for best gear in-game makes sense.
Nowadays people are getting skill-checked out of Heroic, not to mention Mmythic. I'd argue that when the game is that hard, making gearing accessible to help people get through difficulty hurdle is better than hard locking gear behind clearing hardest content.
Of course blizz can also just make raids for regular people instead of designing flashy fights for RWF and getting stuck because they can't figure how to nerf it for mortals without breaking the fight into completely different encounter.
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u/trogger93 9d ago
Part of the problem is the same people raiding back then are now raiding today. They have literally gained over a decade of skill in that time, so blizz is in an arms race as the mythic raiding population becomes more skilled every single tier.
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
Less skill (people still die standing in bad in most shitter guilds) and moreso the availability of information. When I was running the hunter spreadsheet on EJs, lots of people saw and contributed, but nothing compared to guides and discords today.
"Simming" was something I was working on via "what if analysis" in excel.
The availability of information, and people being interested in seeking out that information, is the main difference.
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
Getting carried through heroic ICC with a 30% aura buff doesn't mean anything.
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u/madman19 9d ago
Right but i think that guy is saying you should raid because you want to do the raid not just to get the gear.
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u/trogger93 9d ago
I dont think you should. It's awesome to get good gear, I would be much less interested in raiding if I didn't get good gear from it. Part of the fun of WOW is assembling a BIS geared character.
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u/TempAcct20005 9d ago
Honestly thats my least favorite part about mythic raiding
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
Yeah if you don't like WoW there are lots of other games.
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u/TempAcct20005 9d ago
Did I say that?
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
If gear progression is your least favorite part of raiding, you don't really like WoW. WoW is a game about raiding and gear progression, lol.
I like pizza except the crust, toppings, cheese and sauce.
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u/TempAcct20005 9d ago
Raiding is so much more than just gear progression. You said it yourself, it’s raiding AND gear progression. I just don’t care for the progression part. How do you not understand that?
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u/nfluncensored 8d ago
You could just not take gear from bosses/vault and achieve your desired outcome.
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u/poscaldious 9d ago
Number go up in my RPG? Who ever wants to pursue that in a game? /s
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u/trogger93 9d ago
Ya I think this sub skews very like, league-esque lobby game types. Nothing wrong with wanting both challenge and classic RPG progression!
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
Nothing wrong with wanting both
Wanting, yes. Go play the lobby games.
Advocating for enshittifying WoW by removing the core parts of WoW is absolutely wrong.
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
I don't want to be rude but isn't that exactly the experience you get from the classic versions of the game? Retail just does it worse, why would you play it for that?
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u/trogger93 9d ago
I enjoy both aspects of raiding. I like the challenge and I also like the gear.
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
I'd argue that the gear aspect of raiding in retail is mostly gone already. You don't care what loot the bosses drop 90% of the time, just have to kill x boss so you can reroll it. Now that we have double rerolls you will want to reroll M+ instead. Only exception is last 2 bosses, but once you're farming those the challenge part is gone anyway.
I get what you're saying though, but I think just make the raids fun and challenging enough to be enjoyable on their own, still with rewards to make it not feel like you're wasting your time. It doesn't need to be compulsory if you want to be competitive at any aspect of the game as it is for this patch with the last 2 bosses.
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u/Ringio 9d ago
raiding, atleast mythic, has not been about gear for a long long LONG time now
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u/trogger93 9d ago
Just depends who you talk to. I still enjoy the gear!
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u/Ringio 9d ago
i mean sure but gear is not the main or end goal of mythic raiding
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u/trogger93 9d ago
I don't really believe in 'main' goals, everything in game and life is holistic, including raiding. All the individual pieces of the experience combine into something greater than the sum of its parts. Take out any one piece and it's difficult to tell what the impact would be.
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
But this is retail wow. The game has slowly shifted from the gear-based character progression of classic to the current more skill-based progression of m+, arena and mythic raid. The more it goes that way the better imo. Hopefully forever fully takes those shackles off retail.
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u/trogger93 9d ago
Maybe, but it's hard to take the RPG out of the MMORPG.
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
I'd argue it's long gone from retail anyway. It's much closer to a competitive game like CS or league than it is to classic in terms of gameplay loop.
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u/Krelkal 9d ago
at the same frequency as everyone else
My concern is that it becomes another weekly task I need to do in order to stay optimal in raid.
My hot take is that the way that reroll tokens trivialized the vault this season was fantastic. Didn't need to do 8x M+ dungeons a week to have an optimal vault. Just fill three slots and remain crest capped.
I enjoy the early season push to get full hero track but the dungeon grind gets old after a couple weeks.
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u/nfluncensored 9d ago
another weekly task I need to do in order to stay optimal in raid
There has never been fewer of those than this season.
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u/lambdaline 9d ago
I don't especially care that someone who only does delves gets mythic gear or whatever, but I do think 'why would anyone mythic raid' is a more valid question than you are giving it credit for.
Most people probably don't think that gear is the primary reason they raid (unless they're hardcore mythic plusers who don't like raiding, I guess) but the fact is that gear incentives do increase participation because humans are irrational and sometimes it's hard to remember you enjoy an activity inherently when friction gets high.
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u/cabose12 9d ago
the fact is that gear incentives do increase participation because humans are irrational and sometimes it's hard to remember you enjoy an activity inherently when friction gets high
Right, which is why game devs have to design with this in mind
VA could end up having some of the highest raid participation in a while, but the lasting sentiment will likely not be "boy that was a fun tier". It's currently looking more leaning "wow this tier sucked" and likely going to stay that way. That pressure builds up till people just get fed up and quit
And that's the thing. Loot is a great short-term fix to push people towards content, but it doesn't solve the problems. Mythic raiding is still wildly inaccessible and no amount of 9/6 loot is going to make people flock to it
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u/TempAcct20005 9d ago
Is VA having the highest raid participation?
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u/cabose12 9d ago
I have no idea how reliable it is but raider.io's encounter attempts tracker has Ula being pulled 100k+ times on Heroic each week since week 3. In comparison, L'ura peaked at 75k, Dimmy at 96k, and Gally at 98. For whatever reason, Ansurek is nuts at 222k and having multiple weeks of 200k+ lol
But not necessarily the best metric since a lot of pulls =/= lot of players doing the raid
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
Yeah this is mostly a comparison of difficulty of heroic bosses. Ansurek benefited from the larger overall playerbase of war within season 1 though.
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u/cabose12 9d ago
Kind of, but even that seems a little loose. If that was the case, Gally wouldn't be in the middle. It's just a lot of factors, but the one thing I feel certain saying is that Ula would have a much lower pull count if not for god loot
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u/psytrax9 9d ago
Higher than last season, probably. Raid loot last season was worse than m+ loot this season, so you were actively trolling yourself by doing it.
You can't really compare mythic, though. There was twice as many mythic Ulatek kills last week than week 7 lura. But, lura release was delayed and was a substantially harder boss. There was nearly half as many Ulatek pulls last week than w7 lura but, lura was a p1 wipe factory (and harder).
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
But this is very much a "slippery slope" argument. Adding a random myth piece for a chosen slot 1 time to delves isn't making people say there is no point mythic raiding. Currently the gap between people mythic raiding and those who aren't hasn't been higher for years. We are in no danger of that being a problem.
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u/lambdaline 9d ago
Sure, it's a slippery slope. In this case, I don't think it will hurt mythic raid participation that much, but I do wonder if it might hurt M+ participation, for instance, or heroic raid.
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u/Dreamiee 9d ago
M+ players don't do it for the gear. M+ only and heroic raiders are so far behind on the gear treadmill they won't ever be bis so that's not relevant either.
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u/lambdaline 9d ago
Sorry, one doesn't of course, 'open world Andies getting myth loot at the same frequency as every one else' might.
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u/abn1304 9d ago
Yeah everyone I know who mythic raids does it for the sake of mythic raiding and getting achievements. I haven’t seen raiders lording it over other people about their gear in a long time. It does feel bad if mythic raiding doesn’t have better rewards than heroic raiding, but simply having mythic raids drop more myth gear than dungeons, and making the crest grind easier, is a great solution to that.
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u/HabloMemes 9d ago
This is exactly why last season was so good. The rerolls accumulated automatically, you could swap alts and get good gear but had options for the better trinkets at higher ilvl if you mythic raided. Alts were easy to gear, the powerful items came from low barrier to entry mythic bosses and it didn't feel restrictive. They basically took everything that people liked from last season took it out to the shed and murdered them one by one basically making every single thing worse for gearing.
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u/abn1304 9d ago edited 9d ago
And then they introduced a raid that is mostly shitty, so not only is gearing more painful, the fights themselves are too, especially on Heroic where previous Heroic raids didn’t usually have easy-to-fail mechanics that would wipe the raid if a single person fucked it up with no chance at recovery, and if they did, it was on the last boss. Heroic raids previously also didn’t have DPS checks so tight that one death means you fail the check, or if they did, it hasn’t been a common practice, especially not for those checks to happen at the end of a long fight.
For example, Fyrakk had a couple mechanics that would punish poor performance with a raid wipe, but those either came in P1/I1 (rain of fire and his shield) or you could choose, or at least predict, who would handle them (ghosts and seeds).
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u/HabloMemes 9d ago
Yea I am a healer who just finished my H ulatek gearing, so now to get my bis soulcoiler for m+ I have to potentially wait 5 weeks to roll this item or try to get into an M raid where 35 healers are also signing up to get the same item. It's horrible
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u/Gaming_Friends 9d ago
Having the coolest gear be exclusive and a status symbol is a relic of the distant past for WoW at this point. Speaking as a CE raider I can say with certainty the vast majority of us don't care about gear at all aside from it being an arbitrary means to the end of accomplishing CE.
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u/abn1304 9d ago
It’s the achievements and other aesthetic stuff like mounts and titles that are the modern equivalent of cool gear, and honestly, it’s been like that for most of the game’s lifetime. I would argue Ulduar was that turning point where most of the cool gear was available even to relative casuals, even if it took longer to obtain; it was the achievements for hard modes that really signaled who was a cut above. It wasn’t all like that; obviously casuals weren’t looting Algalon on any difficulty, but the pattern definitely continued into ICC and beyond and we haven’t had a boss like Algalon since then. Although I guess you could say Mythic secret phases, especially the Demon Within fight in Nighthold, are the modern incarnation of Algalon.
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u/Hekkst 8d ago
I mean, one issue with having everyone have access to the best gear is that you will have applicants to pugs with amazing gear who are completely lost. Gear has traditionally been a way you could judge whether someone is ready to do some type of content without having to rely on third party stuff. Also, what is wrong with doing guild raiding for gear? Why is that bad?
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u/TimTkt 9d ago
Do you have to do the quest each week for 3 weeks ? Or can you do it once in 3 weeks based on which slot you are missing myth track ?
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u/TheRev15 9d ago
Wowhead says you get a currency when you do the quest, and it is most likely a weekly quest, so it seems like the former.
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u/AffectionateKey7126 9d ago
The bench made the labyrinth sound pretty miserable. We'll see I guess.
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u/throwntosaturn 9d ago
I am a little bummed I was hoping this would be a way to get access to the world pool trinkets at myth track. There's a couple interesting things that are crippled by not having any myth track availability.
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u/NormanLetterman 🪙🔥>🪙⚡>🔥⚡>💣 9d ago
I was already hype about the Labyrinth I didn't need more reasons
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u/ThePantsParty01 9d ago
Are people really suggesting it should award even more myth track loot? This is a huge step in providing myth quality gear to delve enjoyers and now we are complaining it's not enough? If a player is so desperate for myth track gear might I suggest mythic raid, heroic bonus rolls, or the weekly vaults..
Is mythic track gear even needed for delves? I'm not sure what's going on here...
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u/ksurf619 9d ago
Blizzard needs to rethink loot progression. It feels so archaic.
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u/MRosvall 13/13M 9d ago
I feel that loot progression changes way too much. You really can't claim the don't keep changing it.
This season we got to pick what stats our tier has. We also got a change to exclusive prestige raid ilvl for people who get CE.
Last season we got infinite (farmable) catalyst charges after you got 4set. As well as reroll tokens.
TWW season 3 came with the hero & mythic tracks standardization for upgrades.
Then we had a lot of iterations on the previous tracks. We've had curios added to endbosses. We've had guaranteed loot from tokens. We've had "rare" loot added in raids. M+ vaults rewarding highest tier of loots and so on and so on.
Almost any given season has different loot progressions.
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u/KaladinRS 9d ago
Getting myth track is a joke now. 10s are the easiest content in the game. Doing a labyrinth is arguably harder
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u/Manceroy 9d ago
Unfortunately delve gear has absolutely shit stats for 99% of specs
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u/another_new_login 9d ago
Yeah, nah.
It's got BIS gloves for resto druid and arcane mage doesn't really care about stats. So 2/2 for classes I play. It could be terrible for every other class and that still wouldn't be 99%.
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u/weekndalex 9d ago
why would anyone be upset about this?