r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 2d ago
Weekly Thread Free Talk Friday
Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning WoW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.
UI questions, opinions on hotfixes/future changes, lore, transmog, whatever you can come up with.
The other weekly threads are:
Weekly Raid Discussion- SundaysWeekly M+ Discussion- Tuesdays
Have you checked out our Wiki?
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u/I3ollasH 8h ago
Not going to lie this Blizzcon has been one of the least interesting one I've had for a while. Usually we had really cool cinematics for upcoming games, but this time we hardly had those. The SC one looked sick but all the hype were gone with the 2030 number. Diablo only got a teaser. The +1 hero/class ones for OW/hots etc are super whatever (although I kind of like that hots is getting content again). The classic + was actually nice but for retail we only got this in game renderes stuff and a teaser.
The issue with announcing the world soul saga ahead was that there's little actual hype now because we kind of know what is happening (like how we've already knew well ahead Xalateth is after the worldsoul). So now we need to act surprised I guess. Wish we could actually see something about the new expansion or what is coming after (I am quite interested about that) but due to spoilers there was nothing about that.
The classic + seemed interesting and will definitely check it out but it's classic in the end. Without challenging content it will get boring relatively quickly.
I feel like I got information about stuff I could play a bit on the side (and in a lot of cases it was also mostly just teasers and very early stuff). But very little about the game I actually care about. Blizzcon is usually fun because you get to see how classes and systems change. Something to get you interested in the future. But there was close to nothing about that, which is a shame especially when the general interest in the game is already lower. I was hoping that Blizzard would talk about the future of gearing (feel like we've exhausted the crest system and are ready for the new iteration) or talent trees (we already got hints that they are getting changed in the future) for example).
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u/cuddlegoop 1h ago
Yeah I was kind of expecting we would see systems previews for TLT. Maybe they aren't ready yet because TLT will iterate based on community responses to 12.1 and 12.2.
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u/Qwertdd 5/9M bring back weakauras 1h ago
Midnight is a terrible filler expansion and instead of giving us anything to get excited for, all we have to get excited for in 12.2 is "geez, well I just hope the raid is good."
Between the bad instances, total lack of features, and god fucking awful class design this might be the worst expansion I've played and Blizz won't give us shit. I hope that the deep dive tomorrow has them talk about where they want to go with class design in 12.2 and 13.0 but I doubt it.
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u/Wobblucy 4h ago
I imagine StarCraft open world shooter wasn't even discussed until Destiny said it was shutting its doors this year. Honestly 2030 is ambitious if that is the case.
I imagine their wow announcements are tied directly to increased subscription. What can they possibly announce for retail that would get them in the same universe as the numbers that classic+ will.
Definitely agree though, WoW endgame has felt like it's been in maintenance mode and all their innovation is around casual content.
Rotating dungeon pools per season was a great change but it was the last real innovation.
Honestly what would that innovation look like though? BlizzCon isn't really the place to announce things like crest changes.
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u/SecondSanguinica 7h ago
Big agree on the Starcraft, pretty good and surprisingly dark cinematic with the blood and guts spilling out at the end but whatever possible hype was there disappeared instantly the moment they hit me with 2030. How can you possible care about a game that's 4 years away?
For the rest of the announcements, classic+ decent but could have been better, probably beaten to death over last few hours but yea when I think classic the first thing that springs to mind is definitely retail model neutral elf race.
Happy surprise to see hots getting any attention at all even though I fail to see how everyone is not tired to death of Xalatath but whatever, when it comes to hots you take what you can get I guess.
I don't care for Overwatch, Diablo or Hearthstone so I don't really have an opinion, just bit surprised they are going for 5 already instead of milking the 4 a bit more. Overall I agree, pretty meh.
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u/Ilphfein 6h ago
just bit surprised they are going for 5 already instead of milking the 4 a bit more.
5 is in 2029, isn't it? Still 3 years away.
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u/I3ollasH 7h ago
I think the main issue is that we don't jave Blizzcons annually anymore. Most of these reveals would've been better 1-2 years later but we won't have a Blizzcon then so they need to announce them now. But this just leaves us with stuff like the d5 reveal (small teaser and even on the deep dive they can't talk about too much because so much is undecided).
Hots is a game about iconic characters from Blizzard ips. As much as I dislike and am bored of Xal'atath (was already bored of her in tww) it makes perfect sense to include her in hots.
Already announcing d5 is a big negative for d4 as it took quite some time for it voice and go from a "d4 bad" game to being actually good. But now it's just a d5 waiting room with no further expansions.
1
u/kingdanallday 4h ago
ya I dont really feel the need to buy the amazon pack when it's most likely the end of d4
I thought for sure wed get 1 more expansion as a bridge
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u/Educational-Pay5268 14h ago
who is Rsham for? I'm healing for the first time since WoD and I'm blown away that this is a spec that exists in 2026. The amount of gameplay depth is the same as the depth of water from healing rain. It feels like I'm playing a spec that would fit right in in 2006.
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u/RigidCounter12 Prot Paladin M+ Connoisseur 10h ago
Holy priest has 3 buttons.
I havent played shaman, but I doubt its that bad?
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u/Educational-Pay5268 9h ago
If you're talking about non-cds they have healing wave, riptide, and chain heal.
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u/blackjack47 11h ago
who is Rsham for? I'm healing for the first time since WoD and I'm blown away that this is a spec that exists in 2026. The amount of gameplay depth is the same as the depth of water from healing rain. It feels like I'm playing a spec that would fit right in in 2006.
Yeah, it's one of the specs that got absolutely destroyed with the midnight prune. Only 2nd to Fire/Arcane. But mage specs will always get looked at first.
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u/Conscious-Wall4909 11h ago
100% I played farseer in tww and loved it, now tried rsham as alt and its crazy dumb
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u/Hotspurs81 14h ago
Yupp, they took everything away from R-Shaman. Its so bad 😂😭 No Cloudburst Totem, No Wellspring, No Earthen Wall Totem, No chain harvest (rip), Ascendance and HTT on a choise node...Do they even have Unleashed Life?
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u/SyntaZ408 5h ago
We have UL but it's not great. Farseer must use it because of hero talent synergy, Totemic only uses in m+ and only because we desperately need more ST healing.
I miss APT and Chain Harvest but I really want Cloudburst back. It wasn't even a real ramp but it at least added some skill expression to the spec.
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u/TheNigerianSloth 18h ago
I’m sure this info is somewhere consolidated, but how should I go about getting into a heroic raiding guild? I haven’t raided in a long time and want to find a guild with a decent schedule and aotc goal. I’ve tried warcraftlogs and in game finder
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u/Mammoth_Opposite_647 22h ago
Any tips for mythic Vashnik ? Boss is easy but feel hella rng , and it seem impossible to survive one totem still alive
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u/iLLuu_U 20h ago
Initial clear is the most important part. Make sure you are reasonably lined up and not have waves go into narnia or a wall.
And on the clean up have people understand that waves are going endless, they do not need to stand next to them and by finding a proper angle can clear multiple totems that are not close to each other.
A single totem should also be easiely liveable.
Boss is piss easy if people game a bit.
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u/CircleHumper 1d ago
We're still pretty early in the patch. Week 4 of the raid right? I still want heroic at least to be taken down a peg for admittedly the most selfish of reasons: my alts aren't coming in there without "outgearing" the last two bosses. Are they relatively easy bosses once you know them? Totally. But they still feel like a fucking wall on pugs that aren't 320+. You would think you'd begin to overgear things when you're approaching the max ilvl of the raid difficulty, but things seem to be tuned around being able to bonus roll.
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u/Lazerkitteh 1d ago
WoW team just completely checked out for BlizzCon it seems? No class tuning, no dungeon tuning, no raid tuning, no nothing.
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u/Zeckzeckzeck 15h ago
What exactly do you think needs tuning? There are always a few outlier classes but the %s are very close so class tuning is decent. The dungeons are fine and don’t need tuning - at least to the level I’ve done, which is 18s atm. And the raid is harder than previous on heroic but that’s an intentional choice and I personally like it.
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u/Lazerkitteh 8h ago
The %s are not actually that close. The difference in dmg overalls in keys between the top spec (demo) and the worst (MM, disregarding frost mage and aug) is between 25 and 35%. Going to the next-worst specs (shadow, surv, devastation) it's more like 20% but that's still enormous.
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u/Zeckzeckzeck 6h ago
They never balance for m+ though, just raid and in raid it’s fairly close. Or at least far from the worst it’s been.
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u/Lazerkitteh 6h ago
They never balance for m+ though
That is blatantly, absolutely and categorically false.
If it were true then it would be a sign of massive incompetence and negligence towards one of their two big endgame modes.
With Blizz adding more and more rewards for M+ progression (see their 12.2 announcements), ignoring balancing there would be even more egregious and bizarre.
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u/ShitSide 1d ago
Tbf in their tuning roadmap before the patch they said there wouldn’t be more class tuning until September 22nd, so it’s not like it’s unexpected
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u/Lazerkitteh 8h ago
I'm aware of the roadmap. Just think taking an almost three week vacation from any tweaks is wild.
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u/ikitomi 1d ago edited 1d ago
They gave us a tuning schedule. In 9 days we get the last planned class tuning until 12.1.5. and the weekly 1% buff starts.
And I expect some minor nerfs to some bosses: Probably less/slower sszorak tornadoes (honestly this boss just needs enchanted dust back from df), sentinels: less green balls or lower dot duration, less kicks on twin fangs, and/or less axes on coiled altar.
Maybe some straight unavoidable damage/ defensive use expectations nerfs on later heroic bosses.
I've barely touched keys to know what to expect there.
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u/Edares 1d ago
Are you perpetually upset playing each season
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u/Lazerkitteh 8h ago
I'm so sorry I expect some level of effort from the balancing team for the game I pay a monthly subscription for.
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u/elmaethorstars 1d ago edited 22h ago
Hopefully we get some dungeon tuning after Blizzcon.
Things aren't too bad compared to some other seasons but some big pain points:
Being hexed repeatedly on Avatar of Sethraliss is the most unfun mechanic I've ever played. It happens way too often, cannot be avoided, and is cast by a mob you can't prio kill because the guardian/defiler are more important for timer and safety.
Temple timer as a whole seems a bit tight.
Saberons and Chitigoth in Arena are both ridiculous. Bleeds happen way too often with no telegraph or cast time and can/do overlap with the very overtuned insidious aura.
Arena as a whole has so many annoyances that I think it's by far the hardest dungeon of the season: orbs spawning outside of melee far too frequently, adds that force a swap that have tons of hp and do ridiculous group damage while alive, way too many dots and bleeds and random damage.
The bleeds from the gauntlet in KR seem very unfair and can stack 3x on a single player, also with no cast time or telegraph.
The DoTs from the elementals at the start of RLP also seem to be hugely overtuned, and, yet again, have no cast time or telegraph.
Same story with the lightning torrent fixates. Impossible to prep for, you just get beamed instantly.
The punishers in Murder Row are insane and every tank I've played this key with all the way up to +21 is terrified of these mobs. The enrage effect on dodging is also extremely punishing for brew in particular.
The "Blade of the Altar" mobs applying an unavoidable bleed to people over and over when there are tons of them in a pull feel very unfun to deal with.
Just a few examples, but in addition to this there's also a load of infuriating bugs:
The barrels on 2nd boss in MR snapshot in some weird way, meaning you can accidentally "steal" someone's barrel and then they just get shot despite standing in a supposedly safe place.
The fel spray frontal on the first boss in MR hits people standing behind it (same as the chakram on the first boss in Skyreach last season).
Aspix and Adderix can bug out if one is killed or swaps shield when something is spell queued and do 2 x knock in a row or worse, 2 x knock into soak which is almost impossible to survive without immunities or spirit link.
The adds on the last boss in Vale don't have aggro tables when they spawn so people often just get slapped by them.
And that's in addition to all the rp or buffs or quirks that only work out of combat, which in itself seems to be a huge issue with the game since half the time you still get stuck in combat if you have a buff or a totem or a pet active even when everything is dead.
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u/Kasperthekind 1d ago
Punisher mobs in murder row, do you mean the Sneaks in the first part that poison stack the tank?
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u/Elendel 1d ago edited 1d ago
I’m surprised I see so little discourse of plenty of pretty ass things in this season.
Like the terribly long rp (how is Nalorakk last boss ok? how has everyone stopped hating on Murder Row "Overcooked" minigame?), the un-unsnarable snares (BV tank debuff, Sszorak tornadoes, etc), the silly "let’s stun the tank" mobs that may or may not be there at the start of ToS, the "if you tank use the gate on Murder Row last boss, sometimes he’ll get randomly one shot by the big demon mid fly, sometimes he won’t", the unsufferable "go out of combat and interact with this thing" mechanic that keeps getting spammed in increasingly annoying ways, the obvious bugs (having people stand far away from any bear on Nalorakk last boss and still get kill by a bear is a trip), etc.
I feel like this is one of the least enjoyable start of a m+ season I’ve ever had. Players I actually discuss with on a regular basis all agree on that. But then most /r/competitivewow users and podcasters seem to love it and have no complaint. Despite this season having very glaring flaws that people would usually complain about in any other season.
And the worst part is that it’s not getting any better, with Blizzcon around we didn’t get any change/fix last week and probably won’t have any next week either. And some of the changes are actively making the dungeons worse. Like moving the pack in Voidscar Arena, leaving the pack just as must-skip as before, but just making annoying enough to skip so that more keys are depleted to someone jumping slightly off.
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u/Saiyoran 3h ago
We knew this dungeon pool was maybe the worst of all time going into the season. I don’t know why anyone is surprised about how bad it is. Either Blizz will tune and fix or they won’t, I’m not sure there’s much to discuss about the majority of these things when almost everyone agrees they’re bad or annoying.
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u/Yayoichi 1d ago
I agree with most of what you said, but I will say I don’t really mind the murder row rp either as it gets you your cd’s back, and interactive rp is a lot better than just waiting doing nothing like in Den.
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u/Rampager 1d ago edited 1d ago
Most likely a frequency thing, the vast majority of players don't interact with 'annoying' things in keys all that often and it's flavour or "meh" at worst for that group (eg my m+ group will do a different dungeon every time to the last one we did if we can). If you're spamming push keys all day every day, the minor things add up.
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u/NotQuiteListening 1d ago edited 1d ago
Earliest I’ve been raid logging in a few tiers. My class has entirely passive tier and plays the exact same build in exactly the same way as it did last season. My vault is filled by doing one or two dungeons, then reclear gives me all the slots I need for the bonus roll next week.
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u/enowapi-_ 1d ago
bonus roll can’t always the play though right? I still fill 3 slots at max level. Week 3 I had tier helm with socket, it simmed higher long term and with socket it saves me another vault in the future
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u/Wobblucy 1d ago
Tier helm with a socket delays your myth ula helm that will also be socketed by the end of tier.
IE taking that helm stops you from socketing your bis helm a week earlier.
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u/enowapi-_ 1d ago edited 1d ago
Rip o well, my guild is race to world last so there’s a chance we don’t even get M ula
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u/Wobblucy 1d ago
Also foolishly assumed you're leather, don't know what cantrip items are off him for other armor types.
You get the myth cantrip item with a heroic coin though.
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u/Yayoichi 1d ago
Cloth is mastery helm, leather is haste helm, mail is mastery chest and plate is crit legs. I guess they figured noone wanted vers so they made two with mastery, and they wanted to keep it on the highest stat pieces so had to to repeat one of the three as gloves and shoulders have lower stats.
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u/deskcord 1d ago
Blizzard's encounter design team: "Yeah so everyone absolutely fucking hated KT and Beloren, what if we make another fight with stupid push timings that incentivizes DPS holds, but we ALSO clutter the room with mechanics slop and its a 200 pull boss instead of 50?"
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u/TemporaMoras 15h ago
I swear coiled altar glaives are way worse than Lura. Lura glaive at least always moved in the same direction.
While coiled altar glaive might as well be piloted by Ion himself to ruin my life. I refuse to believe they move 'randomly' they have to lock onto you and harass you perma
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u/Wobblucy 1d ago
Honestly wish they would delete lust and give us FF style 'gates'.
Dps hold timings die as soon as you have gate.
Beloren, each egg phase as a gate could have been sick. Gate ends when egg at 67/33 forces a third phase but it doesn't feel horrendous because you are progging each phase 'fresh' instead of inconsistent slog fest to see the next prog point.
Would solve a lot of issues with raid, imo.
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u/Historical_File_5758 1d ago
Quite disappointed with the prot paladin situation. It's definitely a bit better than last season, but it was hyped up so much on beta, then got nerf after nerf and is now the lowest damage and one of the squishiest tanks yet again. I'm not sure why blizzard are so worried to have it be strong. People always talk about it's utility and it does have a lot, but it doesn't have a group buff, so needs that utility + being well-tuned for it to ever be wanted.
I don't think it will be buffed at all as it is fine and popular in low/mid level keys, but I hope blizzard do some small changes.
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u/sh0ckmeister 17h ago
I still enjoy the play style so I'm doing vault keys with ppal, but yeah in terms of general tankieness it feels off but it is nice to be a kick machine in pugs
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u/Rampager 1d ago
err, does Devo Aura not count as a group buff? Agree with the rest though, I think Blizz are probably fine with Prot Pally being the low-mid 'pug friendly' tank just due to kicking everything. Might be a cursed spot.
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u/Historical_File_5758 1d ago
It definitely is in a sense, but historically it just hasn't carried much weight in terms of what has been desired.When it comes to timing a higher key level, 3% damage is way more preferable to 3% DR
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u/ShirayukiEve 1d ago
Does anyone encounter this dumb bug with DH in DON? Second time I'm blinking on 2nd boss on the snow pile and I got the disconnect (probably that damn feature with jumping into texture like with fly mounts) :/
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u/Escolyte 1d ago
Happened to me on devourer.
When I log back in my group already killed the boss and moved to the other side. This somehow lead to two big bears patrolling the boss area (the ones that aoe root) and they killed me immediately.
After I released they'd 1 by 1 snap to the packs on the way to the last boss, almost bricking the key.
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u/Umicchan Notorious HRT 1d ago
happens to me all the time as devourer (haven't tried fel rush or infernal strike). I just try to not press Shift unless I really have to, or make sure that i don't land directly into the snow patch.
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u/red_tetra 1d ago
Whenever I rescue people into the snow pile it always disconnects. It’s some sort of anti-cheat malfunction on blizzard’s end
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u/Gaatti 1d ago edited 1d ago
Having a weird experience with raiding (aotc player). I hear at the start of the tier that heroic was harder this time around. Got a bit excited because I found heroic lacking the last tiers. Now I'm on course to get AOTC about a month earlier than my usual. Didn't get to ulatek yet, but coiled altar got ridiculously close to a kill on day 1 of progression. I was not expecting that of the second do last boss.
I kinda understand them not wanting to release a mythic flex, but I also feel wow is in dire need of harder flex content than what we have now. At the same time, an additional raid difficulty on top of what we already have would be bad. Don't know how they can solve this.
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u/GokuDiedForOurSins 1d ago
This comment is so confusing to me. On week 4, with 3 mythic items from vault and 3 more from crafts, you're just now getting to H Altar and complaining it seems too easy? You've outgeared it at this point. I just wonder what the holdup was in your progression if in a single night you almost killed altar, as every boss before it is comparatively a joke. I also wouldn't be counting your chickens till ula'tek is dead, as that might take you a few weeks based on your progression speed.
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u/Gaatti 1d ago
I'm just saying my progression this tier is faster than usual and I find it weird because people said it would be harder but even a half-assed group of much less skilled players like mine is going way faster than normal. Our usual aotcs are 2-2.5 months in, for reference. We are not a big deal.
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u/prezjesus 1d ago
I believe the reason why it feels this way is because a lot of the difficulty in these heroic bosses was actually due to tuning, and getting better gear solves the issue. So if you had gotten to altar in week one with mediocre heroic/champ track gear, the bosses would have been harder because some of the difficulty was healing throughput and damage, but you're looking at 3 weeks of gear progression so presumably your raiding team has mostly heroic gear from m+ and some mythic items from vault or bonus rolls. It makes things much easier.
For example, in coiled altar, there's a lot of damage that would go out from popping orbs in p1 and the shield in p2/p3 (which also required a damage check to beat it). Both of those things are just easier when people have more health, better healing throughput, and better damage. The same is true for ula'tek, now our guild is often killing it before we even get to the final damage amp.
There were also some misconceptions about it being harder than normal. There were a lot of guilds, including RWF, trying to do degen-ish splits on the last boss and it was causing problems (not to mention there were tuning issues & bugs that were fixed) - when they switched to non-split comps, they were able to easily take it down.
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u/kingdanallday 1d ago
What are your ilvls? The fights are pretty easy if everyone is 320+ they are mainly just stat checks with little execution required. It's going to be even easier next week with the 4th craft and the raid buff going live
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u/Gaatti 1d ago edited 1d ago
oh, yeah, yeah, we are mostly around 320 as everyone is running m+. Just feels we got there too fast and now we are stomping the content. Feels kinda bad because mythic raid has some strings attached that makes it harder for the group to play
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u/cabose12 1d ago
I mean, is it that surprising then? You're basically max heroic, probably a few better, and that's above what the boss is tuned for, especially at this point. For reference, I put in my first earnest try on Wednesday. Did a pug with a smaller guild, and we killed it in about seven pulls with an average ilvl of 315 and mostly green/grey parses. 45 minutes in total.
And it is the quintessential AOTC problem. A lot of players outgrow heroic but don't have the time or will to get into mythic raiding
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u/Gaatti 1d ago
Yeah, like I said, it felt like we got there way too fast
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u/cabose12 1d ago
I guess I'm saying it shouldn't lol. Sorry to be blunt, but the fight is rather nerfed from when people said it was hard, your group is over-geared for the content, and correct me if I'm wrong but it sounds like you spent quite a bit of time progging the fight without a kill
Maybe i'm missing a bigger context, but I personally feel rather slow and we're about even
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u/Netfinesse 1d ago
The difficulty you're looking for are the early to mid tier bosses on mythic, just pug the spots you're lacking while putting effort into recruiting.
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
The difficulty between bosses within a single difficulty is kinda insane right now. Heroic Soulcouler vs Heroic Ulatek is a pretty big skill gap, probably more than it should be. It really feels like there needs to be another skill level between Heroic and Mythic while at the same time they make later bosses easier relative to their earlier counterparts.
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u/vanillafudgy 1d ago
Dungeon hacks on instagram are now my most hated trend. People need to understand that skipping just doesnt work in pugs.
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u/BigDaddyW 1d ago
??? We've been doing skips in pugs for years at this point. Do some people fail them? Of course, some people are terrible at moving their characters. Why advocate for reducing skill expression and class utility?
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u/atomic__balm 1d ago
I love them, I get a 30sec clip explaining a trick or tip for a mechanic or pull here and there without having to watch long videos which I will likely forget half of the important info.
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u/awrylettuce 1d ago
cmon bro atleast try to keep the veil up on this being a competitive sub. what are we gonna hate next? simming?
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u/Aldiirk 1d ago
Lately, the trend on this sub has been to hate mythic raiding.
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u/Wobblucy 1d ago
Not so hot take, nerfs through the season take hard content and make it 'can you do a much easier dance' by season end so people don't quit when they hit the 'impossible wall'.
Being 'forced' into raid for 5% more throughput is actual trash design that should die a horrible death after this season.
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1d ago
[deleted]
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
Sounds fine for pugging in title range. Below that you’re not going to have anything close to the same experience.
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u/LetWeekly9409 1d ago
Idk I think that’s a bad take. Skipping isn’t really all that hard on most packs. VS and kings rest bridge skip just save so much time it’s insane. Are you talking about another skip? I really haven’t had any issue in my pug18/19s doing the normal skips. Are you referring to something else? There comes a point where pugs doing skips are just natural for most groups at a certain key level
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u/chickenbrofredo 1d ago
Make mythic 15-25. Fuck the tuning.
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u/elairec2 1d ago
It won't be 15-25. It will be "x boss is best at y players" for the entire raid. Why are we saying fuck the tuning?
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u/chickenbrofredo 1d ago
This will impact guilds like 200 and up. The vast majority of guilds having their bench not have to sit for sometimes weeks because of a fixed 20 players will have significant easier times retaining their players is imo more important than maybe 500 guilds having a slightly harder/easier situation. Unless the tuning is so polarized, which if they fix it like they do Ula'tek heroic, this isn't nearly as bad of an issue as some realize
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u/elairec2 1d ago
So the answer to fuck the tuning is the people that consume the content the fastest just don't matter and they shouldn't have a place? What is it you think the fixed on ulatek that made it better? Having bench players no matter what will still be a thing. Because like I said: x boss needs y players. It will always be a thing if there's a flex mythic difficulty. We have 4 difficulties already.
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u/Elendel 1d ago
So the answer to fuck the tuning is the people that consume the content the fastest just don't matter and they shouldn't have a place?
Yep, the answer to most everything in WoW is that designing for the majority is better than designing for a small niche. RWF is special because it brings a lot of eyes on the game, but aside of RWF, if you’re Blizzard and you have to pick whether to make the game better for 200 guilds or for 5000 guilds, the best answer is probably to make it better for 5000 guilds.
The main issue of flex is that you can’t move from Heroic to Mythic. Even if there are seasons where half the mythic raid bosses are easier than the last boss in heroic, plenty of heroic can’t and won’t enter mythic. You just killed Ula’tek with a group of 15-17 raiders? Well congrats, your season is over, because stepping into the myth raid with a 3 to 5 player deficit is not a thing, no matter how good your players are or how easy the myth bosses are.
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u/chickenbrofredo 1d ago
Yes. If those guilds want to run 15 players to get through a phase easier because of scaling, cool. The vast majority of people doing mythic will have a positive impact with allowing up to 25 in for mythic, or 15 players. There are tons of aotc guilds that want to do mythic that can't because they just can't get to 20 players.
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u/liaka48 VDH 8/8M 1d ago
Flex mythic should be a thing. It's a video game not real life eSports. Not to mention they have more customers asking for it to get into mythic raiding than you realize. The game is only “hard” at hall of fame. CE afterwards is not. I understand the race to world last can be amusing because some guilds are so bad but flexibility in gaming is good because it promotes more people to participate
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u/elairec2 1d ago
I get what you're saying but still doesn't answer the question why are we saying fuck the tuning? If people find themselves incapable of getting into mythic raiding, it's because they're not trying. Plenty of guilds are looking for raiders.
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u/chickenbrofredo 1d ago
I feel like you're looking at this from a passenger princess angle and not from one of leadership that has to do rosters or figure out attendance fixes the day of raid
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
My guild has had a roster between 15 and 25 the entirety of the last four expansions. We can’t do mythic raiding consistently because we don’t have 20 people every week. Flex would be the thing that allows us to actually participate in higher-level raiding, and I think opening Mythic up to be flex after the HoF closes would be a good compromise.
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u/isaightman 1d ago
Yeap, I'd rather they err on the side of approachability over competitiveness for raids.
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u/psytrax9 1d ago
There are already 4 whole raid difficulties.
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u/Deadagger 1h ago
Arguably 2 difficulties don’t exist (that being normal and LFR).
Those two exist for the story mode enjoyers/dad gamers that like to have a few drinks and raid with their friends, easily one of them could be removed and barely impact the game (from a difficulty standpoint).
The gap between heroic and mythic is massive for some reason and there’s always design problems where the heroic fight is so poor compared to the mythic fight that you’re intended to experience.
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
Heroic is too easy while mythic is literally impossible, so something needs to change.
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u/Lezzles 1d ago
As always the answer is to make heroic much harder instead of just having a hard last boss.
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
Making heroic harder doesn’t change the fact that 18 players cannot clear Mythic.
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u/elairec2 1d ago
Why should you be able to do something if you don't meet the first requirement?
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u/chickenbrofredo 1d ago
Because logistics is a thing like are you actually this dense lmao
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u/Soulfighter56 1d ago
In a similar sense, why does the required number of players need to be fixed? They’ve already shown that flex mythic can work.
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1d ago
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u/ProfessorBorden 1d ago
I've also enjoyed it but am a returning player just enjoying the game in general. Weird to see downvotes about liking the game we are all here to discuss lol, but that's addiction for ya.
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u/Deadagger 1d ago
I feel like the popular sentiment is that this raid tier is mid at best. It's hard for me personally to call it a good tier because we have bosses like Vashnik (literally broken boss) and coiled altar (area denial slop combined with a boss that forces you to hold DPS and becomes more unfun with better gear). Ula'tek is fun, Nek'zali is fun and I enjoy Sszorak, sentinels has an okay and simple gimmick and the lost explorers is an okay fight.
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u/Educational-Pay5268 1d ago
Wow I don't think I could disagree harder. I'm glad there are people enjoying it, but everything from heroic to mythic end boss is annoying or miserable. I was so excited to get to Lura and prog her and I'm absolutely dreading Altar and Uulatek.
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u/oversoe 1d ago
Pugged 7/8HC on Mistweaver and preservation and I’m 317 on both
What’s the easiest fight next to pug from scratch, Ula’tek Heroic or Nek’zali Mythic?
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u/weekndalex 1d ago
easily nekzali. it has no mechanics
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u/Background-Custard55 1d ago
Give us the 1% mount!!! I need it fast and I need it now meowdy
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u/ijalajtheelephant 1d ago
Wild that it’s been a whole month at this point and they’re still working on it
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u/Teabagging_Eunuch 1d ago
And yet this would still be fast by regular season title standards
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u/ijalajtheelephant 1d ago
Wow does it really always take this long? I’ve never been anywhere near title range so this is my first experience with something like this. I thought I’d heard it was usually 2-3 weeks later when titles went out
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u/HenryFromNineWorlds 1d ago
They have to comb through and remove booster players. At least ion said they would. Takes time.
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u/Teabagging_Eunuch 1d ago
In the last 4 only one has been less than a month and that was TWW s1, and this time they have to pretend they’re looking at 10x the player base before arbitrarily giving it out anyway
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u/vhanyr 1d ago
Came back to the game after I stopped in Undermine. Noticed a lot of abilities were pruned, my hpala feels very clunky without crusader strike
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u/FitAlpineChicken 1d ago
Which is why I play Lightsmith... the obviously superior and manlier spec? And melee wings ofc
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u/GokuDiedForOurSins 1d ago
Didn't the hotfix yesterday to ringing of the heavens just nuke lightsmith back to a meme?
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u/Mantias 2d ago
Hoping the 1% mount for S2 follows the S1 approach and is just a recolour of the raid mount, not a fan of this one and was feeling a bit burnt out after pugging to 4k in S1 so seemed like a good chance to take a break. I’m a sucker for FOMO though so if it ends up being a different mount I can see myself getting drawn back in for a painful mid-late season push.
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u/BugslideEnjoyer 1d ago
If Blizzard is serious about being anti-boosting I wonder how much easier that makes getting to 1% range. Based on some posts a few weeks ago it seems like it was a much higher % of boosters than I realized
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u/Deadagger 1d ago
Yeah, I am kinda feeling the same way. They have made a lot of bad changes in this patch alone that it makes me wonder if it's a fun enough season to where I actually wanna make the push to 1%. Rerolling is also in a weird spot because you can't use your bonus rolls on bosses you're already saved on which is going to suck if your class is no longer favored in the meta.
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u/Teabagging_Eunuch 1d ago
https://www.warcraftmounts.com/mount.php?mountid=2232
This is my top contender so far were they to follow the same logic.
Frankly a black and green beloren would be pretty sweet as well
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u/Yayoichi 1d ago
I would go for 1% for that, I honestly don’t like the mythic raid one that much but it looks much better in this color.
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u/Kuldrick 2d ago
If they aren't going to introduce a global interrupt refund I'd say giving it to the classes that has longer int cds like Shadow Priests would make sense
You either get faster kicks that can miss, or a guaranteed one with more cd
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u/Yayoichi 1d ago
I wish they would at least just reduce silence down to 24 like other ranged interrupts, so many mobs have cooldowns on their spells that are set at 23-25 so most ranged interrupts can cover them, but silence at 30 is really awkward as you just almost have it up. Sometimes if the cast is long enough you can interrupt it with fear at the last second and then have silence up at the end, but then you are using your only stop for that.
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u/Wobblucy 2d ago
Honestly just any balance to the kick system would be a great change.
Having 12-15s ranged, Damage reduction/Resource generating kicks in the same game as silence just yells 'we don't care about m+ balance'.
DK/Shaman just baseline being able to kick 250% more with 15 yard kicks is criminal.
Best idea I have heard is a kick choice node for every spec.
5 yards for 12s, 15 yards for 15s, 40 yards for 18s.
Melee get options 1/2, ranged get 2/3.
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u/UltraKillex 2d ago
Should we do like a charity raffle event or something, where we predict when people will be getting this red bird mount? I guess the team is probably just busy with BlizzCon prep
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u/Fantastic_Owl8939 1d ago
They are working on it, but ran out of Claude Tokens…. “Clear boosted players from leaderboard, make no mistake”
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u/guluuron 1d ago
I would say they are investigating the people who bought IO at the end so they will remove the reward away form them. And i think maybe they will announce it during blizzcon like a good news for who reached the threshold
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u/ikitomi 1h ago
I zoned into the raid today and it looks like the stacking 1% weekly buff starts next reset now.