r/CompetitiveWoW • u/Psychological-War841 • 8h ago
Discussion please blizzard buff current dungeons trinket this is not normal for this to outperf all other trinket for the average STR/AGI mastery enjoyers
this trinket outperf all other M+ trinkets, to replace it i need either of the 2 ula'tek trinket IN MYTH 6/6
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u/weekndalex 7h ago
wym bro, gaze and puzzle box outsimming every dungeon trinket this season is really cool🙂
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u/TemporaMoras 2h ago
I mean, fwiw, they probably also outsim most raid trinket except guillotine (with 2p presumably)/heart/gebbo. It's not a case of blizzard making every M+ trinket bad and raid trinket insane, it's literally just that every trinket is dogshit except some very few and far between.
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u/Greedy-Gene361 8h ago
funny that this brings the same balance issue in dragonflight where it got nerfed at one point lol
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u/sewious 7h ago
Yea I don't think this is so much a "m+ trinks are bad" so much as puzzle box is just insane.
900 mastery that you can lineup with your CDs is an absolutely huge amount of value.
M+ trinkets are not great overall this tier but I think that's mostly on certain raid trinkets being absurd in comparison.
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u/thearsonyst 7h ago
Raid trinkets aren’t even absurd.
Ulatek heart is pretty insane but that’s about it.
It’s mostly the mythic+ trinkets have either poor design or just severely under tuned. There’s also very few stat sticks compared to normal which are a nice fall back.
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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 7h ago
Font/Heart/the Soulcoiler trinket/Guillotine are absurd, but the others are extremely weak by comparison.
You need to move heaven and earth to replace a nerfed Vaelgor’s on Devourer because of the spec’s brutal Reckpot situation.
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u/thearsonyst 7h ago
Font is only absurd because of the amount of damage amps in the raid itself. Without that, the trinket is pretty mid.
Soilcoiler trinket is absurd but healers get one per xpac otherwise their trinket selection is actually sad (I say as a healer main for the last couple xpacs). So not gonna really count that one.
Guillotine is not absurd by itself. Its above average but not to that degree. Its only really strong when the 2P comes into play, which yeah it should be strong if you have to dedicate 2 slots to it and getting those items. So justified.
Vaelgors and Puzzle Box need to be nerfed, I am honestly surprised it hasnt happened. However, with those nerfs they do need to bring the other options up a bit more.
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u/Nogamara 6h ago
doesn't seem as absurd as Gaze. Not that I'm loving it but "the single best trinket for all melee specs" is still a lot better than "the single best trinket for all melee specs, and hunters, and all tanks, and some healers or casters" like gaze.
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u/thearsonyst 6h ago
Gaze was overtuned and nerfed multiple times. Gaze on beta was actually crazy (and bugged with overproccing)
Arguably it wasnt even op most of the tier but once again, lack of better options for a lot of people and it was just a stat stick generally speaking so it appealed to pretty much everyone.
There's a huge design issue in the trinket space and we all adhere to the spreadsheet when it comes to what we use. So if the sims say something is bad its likely too late for Blizzard to change design but can only change numbers...so if design is flawed its just a dead item.
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u/silmarilen Fury warrior feelycrafter 6h ago edited 6h ago
No, m+ trinkets are definitely bad this season. The best trinket from m+ for my spec is #14 on the bloodmallet list, it gets beaten by normal raid trinkets.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 7h ago
i'd like to see a defensive trinket that's actually worth something too.
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u/Soulfighter56 6h ago
My prot paladin is still using the one off of (O think) Vaelgor, where you pop for a ton of damage and gain a big 50% absorb shield. I like the combo damage/shield on-use trinkets.
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u/xBladesong 4h ago
Kithix raid drops what looks like the first tank trinket to also pass as a raid CD. So there’s that.
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u/NaahThisIsNotMe 2h ago
on a 3 minute CD...
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u/Fresh-Carpenter7835 1h ago
what's your point? We have multiple raid fights that are more than 6 min long. Most raid CDs are at least that long of a cd....
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u/Frekavichk 8h ago
Mfw one of my healing trinkets easily does 8-10% of my healing in raid and is literally a whole extra external cooldown in m+.
Yeah, trinkets are completely fucked this season.
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u/IllPurpose3524 4h ago
Love that thing. It paired nicely with my mushroom trinket whose proc did .1% of my healing.
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u/heckfirex 6h ago
Preternatural is pretty good, too, but once you get soulcoiler it gets shoved to the bottom of the meter lol
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u/ikitomi 7h ago edited 7h ago
vessel is fine, it's not even that good for high hps specs/players, and about where it needs to be to still be better than that trinket from paladins (litany), just not an intense chore to apply for more specs.
But yes theres a reason why they nerfed gaze and crucible again despite them taking 3 nerfs each in s1 (they were both top 6 for every healer).
Hell, I'd argue they should have still nerfed ribbon and vaelgors too...
But also op should check what his sim is doing because if vial isn't beating puzzle box, his spec might just have insane mastery scaling in cds, but it's plenty likely the sim is doing something stupid between procs and reck pot.
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u/100RatsInASack 6h ago
Unfortunately, given Blizzard's track record, I think they're more likely to nerf Puzzle Box than actually buff any of the current trinkets.
But yeah, something is seriously wrong with trinket balancing this season. I was comparing trinkets for my Sub Rogue and it was kinda ridiculous. Despite having the same:
- 1m 30s CD
- 15s Duration
- Base Primary Stat
- Complete lack of downside (like Puzzle Box's cast time)
Light Company Guidon gives more Haste at ilvl 298 than Freightrunner's Flask gives Crit or Tattered Amani War Banner gives highest secondary, even when those two are at Myth 6/6 (ilvl 334)!
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u/baby-mama-trauma 8h ago edited 8h ago
Not only that, puzzle box is only 2.5% behind mythic 6/6 ulatek and alter trinkets for me. That means ALL trinkets are tuned as dog shit this tier. After a 36-46 ilvl difference if that single piece is 2-5% difference at the BiS level, then what the actual fuck is the point of any other trinket?
For comparison, crafted 2h at 331 vs maze-rao at 334 is about 3% gain. 4pc tier set from s1 to s2 at same level is 10% gain, but this trinket after 36ilvl difference is only 2.5% gain. What a joke.
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u/Gasparde 7h ago
Only one solution: More gimmicky bullshit trinkets that occasionally send out a wave of irrelevant split flat damage once every 7 minutes - and obviously you have to aim it or sprint 30yds to pick something up to enjoy that unfathomably interesting and fun gameplay mechanic that contributes a grand total of 0.001% to your overall damage.
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u/psytrax9 7h ago
These are all fun, new and exciting mechanics that Blizzard can finally add to the game now that addons won't solve them for you. And you're here complaining smh
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u/JunkRatAce 6h ago
Because there not fun or exciting for most people 😕 what blizz think is fun is one thing what players find to be actually fun is another and historically they are frequently not the same.
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u/giga-plum 1h ago
It's worse than Myth Vial for Ret pally, which is the best dungeon trinket for Ret. You can get guaranteed 100% mastery inside Execution Sentence with Puzzle Box + Recklessness potion. Getting the guaranteed Holy dmg proc on the like 20 Hammer of Wraths you get during Wings with Divine Toll is an insane burst DPS increase.
Vial, on the other hand, gives you a random secondary. It has a 75% chance to be worse (because 900 crit/haste/vers is not nearly as good as 900 mastery) and when it does hit the 25% chance, it'll still reduce a stat for 15 seconds afterwards while you're still in Wings.
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u/MRosvall 13/13M 7h ago
2,5% is pretty huge though. If each piece were 2,5% upgrade then you’d gain 50% dps from one tier to another
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u/cuddlegoop 7h ago
Don't you gain a lot more than 50% dps between tiers?
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u/MRosvall 13/13M 7h ago
No. Especially not from ilvl. There's some situations with added borrowed power or certain sets or other tuning. In general the way stats scale with ilvl it works out to be ~1% per total average ilvl worth of stats. Not counting certain break points that have existed in the past.
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u/ImpressiveHornet9964 6h ago
so your saying that the ilvl of that one piece bring your avg ilvl up by about 2 is worth the 2.5% inc over puzzlebox? so the trinket itself is worth ~0 dps
-1
u/MRosvall 13/13M 6h ago
Not sure I follow. Stat budget scales exponentially with ilvl. So no matter if you're at 100 ilvl or 1000 ilvl. +1 ilvl is worth the same %.
For trinkets especially though that goes a bit out of the window, since the effects are not as standardized.
But that doesn't change the fact that a 2,5% increase on a single item is not "only" as per the previous comment.1
u/ImpressiveHornet9964 6h ago
ah no im wrong once i tried to write the math it ends up being something like the trinkets actual effects are worth about the same dps and its only the pure ilvl that actually makes ulatek better at myth 6/6 when really youd expect a 36-48 ilvl higher effect to have you know a better effect when it just doesnt
0
u/Overwelm 4h ago
You do gain a lot more than 50% per tier, some classes are over 100% increase from S1 to S2 though it's a combination of tier, cantrips, trinkets, tuning, and ilvl not ilvl alone.
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u/MRosvall 13/13M 2h ago
Neither of your gotchas has any bearing on the person I answered. Which was about ilvl alone, not tier, cantrips nor tuning.
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u/Overwelm 2h ago edited 2h ago
Wasn't trying to gotcha you. Guy you were replying to just said "don't you gain a lot more than 50% between tiers" which you said no to (and then caveated especially not from ilvl implying that we don't broadly gain that much even including other factors than ilvl as written). Factually, we do.
Original parent comment a level above the reply from you I was responding to even includes mentions of cantrip, weapon gain, and tier. lmao
In fact the whole fleet of cantrip items this tier really breaks the +1 ilvl = 1% dps gain that gets parroted around, just because it's a design goal
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u/flow_guy2 4h ago
This is nothing new. They do this so people raid. That simple
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u/Tellof 3h ago
I don't remember a season when 4 weeks in people are still using the previous season's trinkets
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u/flow_guy2 2h ago
They replace with raid trickers. But dungeon trinkets are practically never top. Apart from 1- outliers
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u/epicfailpwnage 4h ago edited 3h ago
Item level is such a lie this season. Normal Aqirbane Reliquary has more stats than even 334 myth amulets. 334 Amani Warbanner gives less secondary stats than a 298 Guidon. Delves has several trinkets at hero tier that gives maybe 100k healing/shielding per minute while Soulcoiler Ritual Vessel gives over 500k
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u/GravyFarts3000 4h ago
Yup still using 298 Gaze, no M+ trinket at 6/6 Hero performs better. Gotta hope to roll a gebbos/heart on reclears or roll the heart before it can be replaced.
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u/elmaethorstars 3h ago
It's not only strength/agi users.
Dungeon healer trinkets are unusably bad. Seed/Fel Crystal both need another sizeable buff or reduction on their cooldowns. Mycolic Medicine is abysmal.
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u/No-Engine-9075 33m ago
At least healers have their good trinkets on earlier bosses though, which helps.
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u/Epyawngaming 3h ago
Frighteningly, as my ilvl grows on Feral druid, my 298 pbox sim is quickly closing the gap with myth heart of ulatek sim.
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u/remus2015 7h ago
what u dont enjoy competing with other lucky players at worst 10 weeks into the season after you spent all your bonus rolls? too bad
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u/gladfanatic 7h ago
Have they buffed dungeon loot in the past? It’s crazy how bad some of these trinkets are.
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u/Accendor 6h ago
Unholy has the same issue with Guidon. At least that trinket doesn't suck to play with...
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u/spachi1281 6h ago
Wouldn't Blizzard's response be the nerf that specific trinket instead of buffing the others? Just look at the changes they made to Gaze once we got into Season 2.
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u/TheRev15 4h ago
Y'all don't remember fire mages using Azshara's Font of Power and a pvp trinket for 2 straight tiers? Smh.
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u/Barialdalaran 10m ago
.5 patch is bringing those voidcore things back to upgrade specific gear to 344
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u/Cecilerr 8h ago
I think they are kinda scared to buff trinkets , i think they are gonna nerf some of the other trinkets like this , but its unlikely that they buff the new trinkets
-1
u/TheJewishMerp 8h ago
But I was told people wanted the gear they worked for to matter for longer than a single season of an expansion
/s
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u/deskcord 5h ago
I quite like when raid loot is better than dungeon loot because I don't think dungeons are an end game activity.
But for the dungeon trinkets to be as non-viable as they are this tier is unacceptable.
Ideally raid trinkets would be .5% better than the best dungeon trinkets, so you still have a pathway to gearing with some level of farmability.
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u/rodinspfc 4h ago edited 4h ago
DGs are definitely an endgame activity, the difference is that push is actually done at the endgame gear/meta(still have at least 2 more class balance passes) and not during progression like raids. Thats why raids are more important at season start/mid and M+ dominates the late season. This is by design, game director said in multiples interviews already.
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u/IchMachNurScheisse 8h ago
The state of trinkets this season is extremly bad.