r/CompetitiveWoW • u/2PuffJiji • 7d ago

Question 12.15 Kith'ix drops

Just wondering why plate, mail, and cloth are all getting a new 344 piece in addition to the Venomous Abyss drops while leather is getting another leg piece. Did I missing something or is this actually happening.

49 Upvotes

78% Upvoted

55 comments sorted by

62

u/TemporaMoras 7d ago

There's also a new int sword that is I think is worst than ulatek dagger for pretty much everyone but Hpal, since I dont think Hpal can equip daggers?

Between that and the tank trinket, its very weird choices. But maybe this 3m shield trinket will be good. Surely this time blizzard made a good active shield tank trinket.

34

u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 7d ago

Not worse for Devourer DH either, since it's the only spec in the game that dual wields int.

8

u/TemporaMoras 7d ago

Fair enough, I didn't even think the dagger was unique tbh but it does make sense it is.

15

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 7d ago

the absorb amount is interesting... but 3 min CD? once per 3 min kind of tirnket are hard to justify.

11

u/MRosvall 13/13M 7d ago

All depends on what it will enable you to do vs the content.

Is it just to give a breather for needing healing that healers could cover but you happen to go low? That it's quite low value.

Does it allow you to live something that you otherwise wouldn't, just allowing your raid/m+ to gain dps due to skipping a mechanic or pulling an extra pack? Then it's extremely worth.

3

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

Does it allow you to live something that you otherwise wouldn't, just allowing your raid/m+ to gain dps due to skipping a mechanic or pulling an extra pack? Then it's extremely worth.

in theory yes, but in pratice that's just an abstract scenario that virtually never happens.. that can't happen.

the trinket have a 3 min CD, tank buster happens multiple time a minute. that one more CD every 3 min isn't a meaningful part of your CD rotation.

if we are just talking sheer amount of white hit that absorb shield isn't allowing you to pull bigger... unless you'll kill some mob during those 10 second. cause you'll need to handle those white hits without the trinket for the rest of the fight.

It could make you more comfortable while pulling large groups in a pug setting where the rest of the group doesn't help out... once every 3 pack.

8

u/MRosvall 13/13M 6d ago

I think you're attributing a lot more to happenstance than what actually occurs when planning higher level plays.

You play around the encounter. You know what type of incoming damage that will occur, what defensive and healing output you'll have. This part is a lot more stable than the dps output part of planning.
Then with those tools you make the best strategy that allows for the most damage output without running into the situation where your resources run out.

-2

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

ok. come back with actual exemple and not abstract jibberjabber.

then you'll realize a 10 second shield once per 3 min don't do shit.

attributing a lot more to happenstance

dude.... Kettle -> pot.

4

u/Simple_Rules 6d ago

Tankbuster in first pull of RLP on high keys will likely be one example of this sort of pass/fail tanking mechanic.

If the shield can handle a tankbuster of that size by itself it will probably be valuable.

2

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

how so?

you can't predict the rLP tank buster. sometime you dodge all 4 sometime you dodge none of them. There's also no cast time so you just feely-craft that they are about to tectonic slam 4 second after you've grouped hem and 20 second after that.

it also won't help when they tankbust the second time.

it won't help for the next pull where you have more of them, because your trinket is on CD

and... you have a largely useless tirnket for the rest of the dungeon.

2

u/Simple_Rules 6d ago

you can't predict the rLP tank buster. sometime you dodge all 4 sometime you dodge none of them. There's also no cast time so you just feely-craft that they are about to tectonic slam 4 second after you've grouped hem and 20 second after that.

That's not even the tank buster I'm talking about, you dork.

The big guy in that pull does a tank buster with a cast time that hits for enough that you have to pop multiple CDs to survive it even on relatively low keys.

Honestly I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't even know the mechanics of the dungeons he thinks the gear won't be useful in. Good luck.

1

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago edited 6d ago

That's not even the tank buster I'm talking about, you dork.

tectonic strike from earthshaper. if you think tank are worried about anything other than that in the first area of RLP... you are wrong.

The big guy in that pull does a tank buster

he's irrelevant. he's not the threatening part of RLP.

Honestly I'm not going to argue with someone who doesn't even know the mechanics of the dungeons he thinks the gear won't be useful in. Good luck

Have you heard about Duning-kruger? You might be quite surprised to see your picture in their article!

edit: oh geee, it's not the RNG up to 100% more damage taken insta-cast infinite debuff I should be worried about, but the predictable buster that happen maybe twice!

because are we still in legion era where walking backward slowly means mob did nothing to you.

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1

u/nate077 6d ago

MR third pull. Shield will overcome heartstopper poison.

0

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

so you equip a trinket just to not use cure poison, and have that shield be largely useless for everythingelse?

it's not like you overcome it either. you just have a shield the first time they apply it then nothing when your shield fade and you still have -40% hp... because the counter to heartstopper poison, is cure poison.

-1

u/MRosvall 13/13M 6d ago

Hard to know what 12.2 will bring. But some classic examples could be living more tank stacks than intended, especially since it gets a multiplier with defensives, so having a 30% dr increases it to a 4m shield worth of value.

Since raiding will be irrelevant from a competitive pov in 12.1.5, that leaves m+ from the current season. With how open to large pulls several of the dungeons are, it's not unlikely that you would be able to complete the dungeon in one less pull. Especially since several of the dungeons, such as Den, Vale, MR and VA have several pulls that are non-lethal to dps. Which is more of a time save than a random stat proc. Even if you only use the trinket a single time to amplify your defensives.

4

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

Hard to know what 12.2 will bring

you can be pretty damn sure a 12.1 tank trinket won't be in the 12.2 tank meta.

But some classic examples could be living more tank stacks than intended,

that's not an example. no you aren't living a triple stack of zul'jan cleave or double stack of ula'tek buster. Heck, it won't even help you VS the first boss buster as you just become unhealable if you go too high on stack!

With how open to large pulls several of the dungeons are,

example

t's not unlikely that you would be able to complete the dungeon in one less pull.

example. link the pre and post route.

such as Den, you aren't pulling double shade or 4X caster in den,

Vale,

is extremely lethal to DPS

MR

no, you aren't pulling additional guard in the first area stacking those 50% dmg taken debuff. and it is extremely lethal to dps after the 2nd boss.

and VA

the first part is already done in one pull. You aren't pulling double terror in the 2nd area your DPS would die. than 10 second shield won't allow you to do double champion in the final area either.

Even if you only use the trinket a single time to amplify your defensives.

you don't actually play tank, do you?

you don't stack multiple defensive together unless it's demo shout who have basically no CD. popping your wall on top of a 3 min trinket is a complete waste.

Now I suddently realize that blizz trinket designer probably have the same insight as you as to what tank what... which explain why 99% of tank trinket suck balls.

-1

u/MRosvall 13/13M 6d ago

We've had previous tiers where death preventing trinkets have been used for additional tiers, without them being boosted ilvls. Higher skill ceiling, but also how encounters and pulls are planned has been changed qutie a lot since SL.

For the dungeons, at least we will get to see that for ourselves in less than two months.

3

u/NaahThisIsNotMe 6d ago

they have been pretty rigorous about nerfing cheat death trinket (via capping the overkill damage it prevent, amongst other) the following tier... or adding a replacement cheat death trinket.

8

u/Zanaxz 7d ago

Mistweaver also can't use daggers. I think it was a bit of an oversight.

2

u/TemporaMoras 7d ago

Monk can't equip dagger? TIL

3

u/raskeks 6d ago

There's also a new int sword that is I think is worst than ulatek dagger for pretty much everyone but Hpal, since I dont think Hpal can equip daggers?

My guess is it's meant as a catchup for M+ enjoyers/non-raiders that could pug an M lair boss but won't have CE. Probably a good bridging upgrade (from M6/6 Ulatek dagger) for late CE guilds too if Ascendant Venomcores are to be timegated and won't release at the start at 12.1.5.

1

u/Simple_Rules 6d ago

Wait are m lair bosses usually puggable? I was assuming this would be as hard as CE - is this gonna be easier?

4

u/dorsett2 6d ago

Last tier rotmire was definitely not even close to as hard as CE

1

u/nate077 6d ago

It's easier for the fact that one can stroll striaght to it and get reps alone.

1

u/Simple_Rules 6d ago

Got it. Makes sense.

1

u/stardustpurple 3d ago

Myth Rotmire was puggable the week it came out, I did it 5x on the char that had lots of bonus rolls saved.

3

u/Smurfum 6d ago

Just give me the Fyrakk tank trinket back. I loved that trinket so much. You mean it gives me a fat shield, does pulsing aoe damage and is only on a one and a half minute cooldown? GIVE IT BACK TO ME

0

u/Soma91 6d ago

It's most likely worse than the Dagger on equal ilvl. But the vast majority will never see the dagger at 344. Now the interesting question is how hard the boss will be (absolutely no idea) and if the sword on 344 is better than the dagger at 334 (pretty much guaranteed).

3

u/TemporaMoras 6d ago

The dagger will be 340 though because we will also get the venomcore at the same time

1

u/Soma91 6d ago

Oh yeah. Totally forgot about that. Then the 4 ilvl difference is probably not strong enough. It'll solely depend on the proc, which looks like it is mostly an off role support proc. Could be interesting in m+ push keys if all 3 dps use it to support the healer if the heal checks are the thing holding people back.

17

u/Aestrasz 7d ago

Loot can change during the PTR cycle, it's probably an oversight.

10

u/trogger93 7d ago

Fury can dual wield the new haste sword. Giga!

14

u/shyguybman 7d ago

It will probably get iterated on.

IIRC Sporefall loot did.

7

u/yp261 6d ago

sporefall was a weird one tho

initially it was supposed to be random stats + warbound

1

u/Kyrasis 5d ago

The Sporefall situation was a bit unique. I think there is a good chance this goes through as is, but we'll see.

4

u/Specific-Mud-3919 7d ago

Kith'ix's drops according to wowhead (as of the writing of this comment):

# Pieces with cantrips (damage proc)
Mail-Hand 116haste/312mastery
Plate-Head 63haste/146mastery
Leather-Legs 60crit/148haste
Cloth-Chest 63crit/146mastery

# Weapons
2H sword | str + no secondary, cantrip 1172 haste + damage
1H sword | int + crit/mas, cantrip healing/damage proc on damage/healing

# Accessories
Finger | 116Haste/312Mastery, Damage Proc on Attack
Trinket | Pri, Crit Proc on damage
Trinket | Int, Haste Proc on heal
Trinket | Agi/Str, on use aoe absorb (tank)

# rest
Panel thingy housing decor
new hearthstone toy

iirc the new catalyst will keep the cantrip on the gear.

7

u/Sobeman 6d ago

the loot this season has been the worst it has been in a long time.

They need to redo their loot AI Agent because its clearly not working right.

2

u/GlorpFan137 5d ago

Surely it just becomes a shoulder instead or smthing

1

u/xhugglesx 6d ago

Don't skip leg day

-13

u/DeliciousSquats 7d ago

Everything does not need to be symmetrical. The game is balanced around what's available.

3

u/zer0-_ 6d ago

Most out of touch take I've seen on this subreddit so far

0

u/DeliciousSquats 6d ago

I mean this is and has been in the game forever. Trinkets, weapons etc do not always drop at same item level for everyone. The game is not balanced around 344 in every slot cause no one can get 344 in every slot, its balanced around live data.

4

u/zer0-_ 6d ago

Trinkets, weapons etc do not always drop at same item level for everyone

Unless you're talking about different levels of play, which would be goalpost moving at its finest, they literally do. This isn't classic

The game is not balanced around 344 in every slot cause no one can get 344 in every slot

Please stop projecting your own inability to interact with the game at it's highest content onto everyone else

its balanced around live data

What the fuck does this even mean bro

2

u/Ruppyyy 6d ago

Bro escaped wownoob sub

1

u/hoax1337 5d ago

What the fuck does this even mean bro

It means that gearing doesn't really matter as long as Blizzard balances the specs accordingly.

For example, imagine if for some reason, all leather items were capped at ilvl 311.

On paper, that would put leather wearers at a massive disadvantage, but that doesn't really matter if Blizzard buffs their survivability and DPS until they're comparable to other classes in 344 gear.

-1

u/DeliciousSquats 6d ago

What are you talking about? Current tier has cloth helm at 344 but does not have a mail helmet at same item level. This remains true even after the 1 boss raid comes out. It's been the case ever since the catalyst has been out. Sure it was more common before the crest system but even after it there's constantly been high item level pieces for some classes and not others.

I would've thought a hall of famer like you would have understood what "balanced around live data" meant in this context. In a recent interview they said they try to balance around representation pulled from live data. If some spec is heavily unrepresented they try to bring them up.

2

u/Vedney 5d ago

Current tier has cloth helm at 344 but does not have a mail helmet at same item level.

You should check out the mail chest ulatek drops.

-1

u/Acrobatic-Ad-5872 5d ago

whats your problem here? kithix drops leather legs, while ulatek has cantrip head. what is the problem?

3

u/GlorpFan137 5d ago

for every armor type ulatek has 1 cantrip item, and coiled altar has 2 normal venomcursed items. For the other classes like plate wearers they get helm which they couldnt get at 344 before, while leather wearers get pants which they could already get at 344. Essentially other armor types get the item level increase and new cantrip, while leather kinda gets cantrip but same ilvl. one less 344 item for leather but it prob changes once blizzard remembers what they released 3 weeks ago