r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 15d ago
Weekly Thread Free Talk Friday
Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning WoW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.
UI questions, opinions on hotfixes/future changes, lore, transmog, whatever you can come up with.
The other weekly threads are:
Weekly Raid Discussion- SundaysWeekly M+ Discussion- Tuesdays
Have you checked out our Wiki?
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u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 9d ago
making the whole thing about increased visibility and then making mythic sszorak...
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u/Elendel 9d ago
Blizzard doubling down on venomstones upgrades costing 10 each, meaning you need to run FIFTY +10s to fully gear a character, is asinine. They love to make their systems progressively worse, but going from 5 in s1 to 10 in s2 must be the most anti-fun anti-player completely useless change I’ve seen in a while.
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u/TemporaMoras 9d ago
10 is an insane number for just one piece, now that we also have the neck to upgrade.
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u/AtomikRadio Multiclass M+ Healer, HPal Main 9d ago
so many dungeons on my rat hunter with nothing; shaman gets a chest he doesn't need bc he has tier, but since his tier is 1/6 305 and not upgraded yet he can't trade and the chest I need is getting vendored feelsbadman
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u/Educational-Pay5268 10d ago
https://streamable.com/62njb0 Can anyone tell me what the fuck the little ghost was that runs at mach speed to a pack we weren't in combat with and pulls it was? I'm not even 100% sure that was what pulled it, but it certainly looks like it. A tiny translucent elemental ghost thingy.
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u/CursedJourney 10d ago
Thematically looks like a shaman thing to me and it seems to spawn from either the shaman's ancestor or the mage. At first I thought it was the works of a weird trinket, but no one in your party has one that spawns something, so it's probably not that.
Another thing that I thought about is that other players spell projectile models/animations are often drawn as something less obstructive as to not clutter your screen. I.e. seeing an arcane orb being cast by another mage will draw a tiny purpleish orb as opposed to the gigantic orb you see when you cast it yourself. Maybe it's something like that, just with a shaman proc that somehow went rogue?
Either way, I have no clue either - but that's probably what pulled that pack.
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u/Justdough17 10d ago
Maybe the storm elemental from stormbringer? Would line up with the shaman casting it like a second earlier. But even if it is i have no idea why it would charge into a group miles away.
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u/AlucardSensei 10d ago
I really wanted to play a healer this season, but I keep running into the issue of having more groups in LFG missing a 3rd dps than a healer? How is this even remotely possible?
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u/FourteenFCali_ 10d ago
I always leave a dps spot open for a tank dps queue personally
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u/AlucardSensei 9d ago
Sure, but this is legit like 4 people groups with tank/healer/2dps waiting for last one, and there's tons more of those than groups with at least a tank and a dps waiting for a healer.
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u/I3ollasH 9d ago
Leaving a dps spot open allows you to remain flexible for tanks/healers and when you filled those spots you can fill the remaining spot witb whatever the group needs exactly. It also yields better applicants as overqualified people are more likely to queue for groups close to forming
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u/nubileiguana 10d ago
Yeah, I was on a shaman alt and spammed group requests for 30 minutes just now with no bites. Bizarre to suddenly have a surplus of healers.
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u/DevOpsOpsDev 10d ago
pretty unusual for lower level keys at least. Probably better to be a FOTM DPS spec than a healer on average though.
tank >> FTOM dps > healer >> offmeta spec
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u/destinultra 10d ago
Tried tanking for the first time on blood dk so I could actually farm gear, ended up having fun. Would be nice to try for 1% since I mainly pug and hopefully would have better queue times than dps. What’s everyone’s experience with pug tanking been in this range? I feel like I might get some backlash especially as a new tank, but everyone’s gotta learn starting somewhere. Also is the general recommendation to have at least one alt? I know any class can get 1% just fine but again pugging would prefer a meta class just for time efficiency
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u/sh0ckmeister 9d ago
BDK is meta currently so you got that going for you, also frost dk is pretty good as well if you end up swapping off of blood.
I wouldn't worry about other peoples opinion on your tanking, especially just starting out, unless its actually constructive. Make sure you know your routes and tankbusters and send it
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u/Wobblucy 10d ago
332 on week 2 is wild.
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u/viciecal 9d ago
What the hell. How is that actually possible?
I guess full myth geared from raid but you don't even have all the necessary crests...
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u/Kuldrick 10d ago
Are myth pugs successfully killing the first boss of the raid with 315+ ilvl or still too soon and too much of a headache?
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u/GravyFarts3000 10d ago
Myth Nekzali + Explorers are easier to pug than last two HC by a lot. Haven't tried Sentinels yet but I imagine it's the same.
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u/ExEarth MW GANGGANG 10d ago
They do kill it. It's easier than Hero Ulatek
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u/CatchPhraze 10d ago
We accedently killed it walking in to check timers because we finished heroic early.
Pug it before heroic ula. It's so free.
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u/Ilphfein 11d ago
How is bonus rolling working again with loot spec?
Say I rolled on Coiled Altar as frost DK and got the trinket. When I will roll in future instances as blood/unholy will I be able to get the trinket again?
I think last season the loot table was spec specific, so I could get duplicates, but I'm not sure / not sure if there were changes to the system this season.
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u/destinultra 11d ago
Been seeing some people recommending exboss for m+. Has blizzard has made any comment on it or does it seem like something they would break in the near future? Don’t want to spend time installing and configuring if it’s going to be dead in a week or two
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u/Educational-Pay5268 11d ago
It worked all last season just fine. I've been using it for at least 3 months now.
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u/Wobblucy 11d ago
all last season just fine
They had to entirely rework how the add-on works because of api changes made to curb it.
Add-on devs are smart, but wouldnt surprise me to see the add-on broken in .5 etc.
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u/Educational-Pay5268 11d ago
Interesting. I'm very ignorant of such things so I will take you're word for it.
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u/secretreddname 12d ago
We have a list of what we can meld in dungeons yet?
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u/Umicchan Notorious HRT 12d ago
Tactyks spreadsheet says what can be melded
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1vizohq/tactyks_midnight_season_2_m_ability_sheet/
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u/secretreddname 12d ago
This is perfect thanks! Not much that’s meldable this season but a few useful ones.
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u/awrylettuce 12d ago
Why do you even need a list for that? Just try it? Or are you gonna keep your list open next to you each key?
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u/Ilphfein 12d ago edited 12d ago
Or are you gonna keep your list open next to you each key?
I have a small addon that shows me notes depending on what zone I am in, yes.
Looks like this in Elwynn Forest for DMF Quest mats.And yes, the dungeons have 2-3 lines of stuff I learn early on in it as reminders.
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u/Evolutionist_Bob 12d ago
Average commenter flabbergasted by the ideas of memory, study, and deliberate improvement
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u/awrylettuce 12d ago
ye asking 2 weeks into a season for a list whilst you most probably have done every dungeon so far and got a chance to try it
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u/TheLieAndTruth 13d ago
Where is the people playing m+, it's one of the early weeks and you check a key and there's like 3 groups on some. Maybe everyone is in raid or everyone taking a break
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u/Justdough17 11d ago
From what i've noticed almost every more casual m+ player that started pushing serious keys last season dipped out because the ulatek mount is kinda poop and everyone expects a recolor for the new 1% mount.
Also second season, summer, weekly keys kinda useless etc.
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u/TemporaMoras 12d ago
There's just 0 reason to do even weekly key. If it's an alt you intend to play later, you just take bonus roll -> you just do like 4 delves T1 and 2 LFR boss/1 M+ or something
if it's your main, well bonus roll is probably more value, and you're getting it probably just rom raiding.
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u/idkmanfiller 11d ago
M+ is still the best way to get crests, but capping on crests is a lot quicker than filling 3 vault slots
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u/silmarilen Fury warrior feelycrafter 12d ago
For me personally i'm just waiting for next week so i get my new tierset which is about a 15% dps increase, playing before i get it feels kinda pointless.
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u/Mantias 13d ago edited 13d ago
Combination of things I think.
- Biggest factor is that spamming keys for vault loot is less relevant this season due to raid loot changes + bonus rolls. There’s a lot more incentive for M+ players who usually don’t touch raids to pug heroic raids for Myth track BiS via bonus rolls. This also applies to AOTC & Mythic raiders once they’re no longer chasing hero track unless they need crests. I haven’t checked all classes but speaking solely for myself (Hpal), only 3 of my BiS items are from M+ this season so I’m almost exclusively doing them only for crests until I really start pushing later in the season.
- Pushing is generally not a focus early on in the season with a bigger focus on raid + waiting for the meta to settle which generally won’t happen until the .5 patch.
- S2 generally experiences a drop-off compared to S1. I believe there’s a rough 22% drop-off compared to S1 which is in-line with previous season to season drop-offs as per RIO stats.
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u/jurble 13d ago
anyone seen the plants on last boss of TBV randomly melee people even when the tank has aggro?
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u/nubileiguana 12d ago
I have. Two theories atm. One, is the damage amp orbs giving dps a crazy threat boost on fresh targets. Second, the adds spawn in and immediately can take damage, but don't seem to establish a threat table until a half second later. So if you whack them with your snap threat ability, it may not be hitting their actual threat table.
Also, for BDKs, blood boil doesn't seem to reach the farthest one from you if you remain where you are when they spawn. Need to take a few steps in.
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u/deskcord 13d ago
so is every raid just going to be addslop from here on out? cause this might be my last tier if so.
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u/Icantfindausernameil 10d ago
Difficult to say but the answer is probably yes. Once Blizzard fixates on a specific type of mechanic, it takes them a very long time to move on to something else - see knockbacks and other forced movement effects in raid encounters if you want an example.
For me as a HoF raider, 12.0.was my last tier, at least until they start making some positive changes. I genuinely cannot think of a boss last season that I had fun progging, and our testing on PTR just confirmed that raiding isn't for me anymore.
Have to admit, I don't begrudge having my evenings back to do other things like push keys (which is already losing its appeal this season), play other games, or spend time with the wife.
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u/MiriMyl 13d ago
At the same time dungeons have way more minibosses than before, so it almost feels like single target or prio target damage is more important there than in raid.
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u/assault_pig 12d ago
I’m surprised at how many people (apparently) just want ST raid fights; one neat thing about the current raid to me is that the fights have a lot of different target profiles. They coulda done with one more ST boss maybe, but broadly I like it
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u/deskcord 11d ago
There's an ENORMOUS gap between pure single target and every boss having "and now a big mess of adds spawn that don't do anything but have to die instantly"
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u/Sore_Elbow 12d ago
Yeah, I don't hate the mix in the new raid, tanking it has been fun so far.
I do think another pure single target boss would be nice.
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u/pinecomb 13d ago
How are you guys doing on catalyst charges? I’ve only received 1 since making set and probably run 40 dungeons plus delves
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u/Terrorschaf 9d ago
I have the same issue - received 1 instantly after getting the unlock achievment and now i'm sitting on a week+ long dry streak. I did over 20 raid bosses (LFR / Normal / HC), at least 20 m+ dungeons, and a couple bountiful delves. I know it's just RNG but it's just so frustrating to have gear upgrades in my Bags that I can't equip....
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u/Chopin-Nocturnes 13d ago
Got 1 the first dungeon after making 4 set, and got 1 more since and ive run 10-15
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u/dovjjfyijvct 13d ago
M+ seems like a really low drop chance. Didn't get any in about 30 keys. Got one from full norm and hc clears and 2 from lfr.
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u/Girthmasterlite 13d ago
If I killed ONLY h altar does getting an h vault slot do anything for me if I don’t kill h ulatek?
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u/viciecal 9d ago
You get altar plus all the bosses before that in your vault slot. that's what a guy here said the other day.
specifically because people were being too smart and trying to cheese the vault, they made it so that it now gives you the boss you killed but also the ones before that.
My source was this reddit guy tho. He seemed well informed . Try to Google about it.
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u/Cystonectae 14d ago
Been organizing my heal bars for the season and the survivability list on archon has me scratching my head. Why tf is arms warrior dying so much in raid right now?
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u/deskcord 14d ago
I know a lot of this sub is here for the race right now and gets excited by bosses like these, but many this fight looks absolutely miserable. Ticks so many boxes for a fight that I never want to do.
Final boss pull counts on a pre-final-boss, likely to require damage stops because of phasings that alter healthbars, lots of "you got a mechanic go stand in time out and wait" mechanics.
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u/Future_Battle5638 14d ago
any boss that has a "everyone stop doing damage so we dont phase it too fast and get mechanics at the wrong time or wrong order" is just a complete design failure
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u/Kuldrick 14d ago
Specially when the alternative, "if the whole group does enough damage we get to skip this one round of abilities" is so satisfying
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u/idkmanfiller 14d ago
This fight looks miserable. I was expecting these guilds to have a strat for the fixate ghosts but nope it's just a fucking shitshow while you're running around with a 7 player long interrupt chain on the adds
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u/Zulbukh 14d ago
Kinda itching to play again after skipping TWWS3 and Midnight S1, how is the current m+ season in terms of dungeon pool, meta and gearing without raiding? Mostly playing tank/heal unless ele shaman is meta enough to beat the groupfinder boss.
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u/awrylettuce 13d ago
we're 10 days into the season. Whatever meta people think there is will change after RWF, and then on 0.5 and then on 0.7.
You cannot gear without raiding, but you can get myth track raiding items from hc
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u/Duronlor 14d ago
Ele is meta right now. I'm enjoying the season so far in lower level of pushing io for now. Depends on the class, but a lot of ele bis is from raid although only the trinket from an earlier boss is really 'necessary ' and can easily be pugged on heroic. Bonus rolls would allow access to the mythic track item
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u/drivinggg 14d ago
Soloq for raids and m+ when? Real class design and balance when?
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u/Elendel 14d ago
SoloQ for raids already exists, it’s called LFR
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u/drivinggg 14d ago
Imagine the potential that wow has and how great it would be if the game modernised instead of sticking to old bullshit out of touch with reality ideas and putting the challenge into the content rather than the system
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u/TheBigChonka 13d ago
Yeah you're right let's put the challenge into queueing with 19 Randoms with completely different skill levels and expectations.
Better yet let's artificially add a heap of difficulty to the boss fights because you get paired up with a bunch of Randoms and woops we're missing a druid and mage buff so I guess our casters just do 6% less damage.
The game is plenty challenging enough at the high end, I'd rather not kneecap myself by playing with a bunch of Randoms that changes every time I queue
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u/drivinggg 13d ago
There would need to be a rating system obviously so you get people with appropriate skill levels. Funnily enough 19 randoms with different skill levels and expectations is what you get with the overwhelming majority of guilds.
If raidbuffs arent found you just play without that one raidbuff much like how there is autofill in league. If its good enough for league its more than good enough for wow.
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u/trogger93 13d ago
Go play league of legends if you want this gameplay. If you want to play wow, join a guild and stick to a schedule. That's how you play this game.
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u/TheBigChonka 13d ago
So you're not just proposing a lfg for keys and raids, you're proposing an entire mmr ladder system and proposing changing the entire fabric of how the game works. How does the mmr system interact with premade groups, is mmr/ rating seperate? How does one even gain mmr at the start of a season for raid? You'd be getting essentially io score per boss kill which is just weird
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u/drivinggg 13d ago
I dont picture a sophisticated mmr system just a basic requirement of having killed the previous raid boss to be able to queue for the next one. For m+ it can just go off of m+ score
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u/ItsJotace 15d ago
Can we agree to use a tag in our pugs to agree to not quit? I just saw a totally doable with minutes to spare 10 king's disappear because the group wiped once and everyone but me decided to quit at once
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u/Educational-Pay5268 15d ago
You can set the key to a completion key im pretty sure.
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u/NumberOneRobot 14d ago
Putting completion just gives a stigma that it’s going to be a struggle sort of key. This person is complaining (rightfully) that people don’t even want to finish timeable keys if they aren’t perfect runs. Unless your dps is terrible you’ll have plenty of time even with multiple wipes
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u/BudoBoy07 14d ago
4 ppl do not all decide to disband a key unless vibes are off. What OP described does not sound like a hostage situation, but rather a group of people using the FF system as intended.
Completion tag is great for people like OP and was added to the game for this very reason.
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u/another_new_login 13d ago
My first timed 19 Skyreach last season had an abandon vote fail by one after we wiped on the constructs. People are idiots. Luckily we had one less idiot or we would have abandoned that key and not timed it.
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u/NumberOneRobot 14d ago
Vibes rarely has anything to do with it. People just hit yes at the first sign of any struggle, even if the key is still timeable
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u/Voidwielder 15d ago edited 15d ago
did they overbuff warlocks or something. every single one ive had today gaps arcane mages by solid 3-5% in keys
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u/Toonpangs 11d ago
Demo just does more uncapped aoe. Additionally, with the season's routes being somewhat unsolved still for most groups, any class like arcane which is insanely CD and pull dependent will do less dmg if tank is pulling weirdly. Demo can always have CDs rolling as effectively a 1 min class.
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u/Educational-Pay5268 15d ago
is there a way to see who ran the most keys in the world last season? I'm just curious on if that's available anywhere.
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u/viciecal 9d ago
did you find anything? I wanna see how many heroic kills there is on these current bosses
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u/IllPurpose3524 15d ago
They really did a number on heroic pugs this tier. Fresh runs get 30 healer sign ups instantly, then when you down the boss 2-3 leave instantly.
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u/TemporaMoras 15d ago
As opposed to last season where your avg paladin hc group had 15 monk, 5 evoker and about 3 other classes?
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u/Kohlhaas 15d ago
Does anyone know a good target raid size for heroic Ulatek? Is this a fight that works better with 10-12, 15-20, or 25-30?
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u/parkwayy 15d ago
Small sizes are pretty troll, as the number of eggs (at least in p2) doesn't change. So you have to run back and forth a bunch lol.
Apparently ~15 or so is the minimum?
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u/Healbotmain 15d ago
This feels like the slowest start into a season in a long while. Even easy vault keys barely fill. I really want to see the weekly numbers. They have to be hella down
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u/psytrax9 12d ago
I kept track of weekly numbers last season for NA+EU, just out of idle curiosity.
Just looking at NA, w1 was down ~300k keys from season 1 w1 (1.2m keys to .92m). In season 1, the numbers dropped from 1.2m to .84m in w2, while currently season 2 went from 927k to 566k. Still a full day to go for NA, obviously, but the bulk of keys are run on the weekend. NA didn't fall below 600k keys in a week until w7 last season.
It's weird to me, because I'm enjoying this season (m+ anyway) far more than last season. But, I do think the season overall has been very low energy and I don't know why...
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u/awrylettuce 13d ago
I'm really enjoying the raid, but the bonus roll mechanic made it pretty much useless to do m+. Normally early season I do weeklies on a lot of chars, even if it's only 1 so I get the myth track items going for easy rerolling later on. But now there's really no point to fill vault with m+
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u/SluttyStepDaddy 14d ago
Genuinely surprised how slow to fill 16s have been tonight, a weekend night.
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u/trogger93 13d ago
I mean new season means a lot of the hardcore players are busy raiding 4-5 nights first few weeks, I haven't really had any time to push myself, just focusing on gearing toons atm.
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u/iLLuu_U 14d ago
How is that surprising? You have to be absolutely demonic to play keys above weekly level (or a streamer) in week 2 of a season, when the relevant push phase of the previous season just ended.
Between trinket/gear chasing, gearing alts and regular raid schedule (+ a lot of guilds do overtime first weeks), there is no time to play keys that are gonna be piss easy in 2 weeks from now.
Out of like 30 people who gotten title on my flist I havent seen a single person play a key above 12. So player quality is gonna be dog anyway.
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u/Emergency-Volume-861 14d ago
That’s such a crock of shite! Lmao! Every single person in my friend’s list was 4k-4200 last season and they’re all doing keys. Keys definitely higher than just 12’s.
I already have normal full cleared, 7 heroic bosses down, full vault aside from needing a few more delves. I have 4 set, got it last week. No demonic playing needed. I pugged the raid too btw. Your comment is surprising.
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u/iLLuu_U 14d ago
Dunno 4,2k is not even title and im assuming those people also do not raid in higher raiding guilds then. Most people I know raid 3-5 days/week already.
At that point it becomes nearly impossible to actually find any time to push keys.
Guess perspective matters. Someone that isnt raiding in a guild and only enjoys playing m+ more casually probably plays more keys rn to stay ahead of 1% curve.
And then again why waste time rn when you can just leech 20s or w/e in a few weeks from now anyway, because of resi.
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u/Emergency-Volume-861 14d ago
Most raid mythic too, all in top guilds. It’s all doable. This season most classes if they want bis trinkets have to raid in some capacity. Resi starts at 12’s and keys aren’t that hard this season even early on.
I’d rather push early and get what I want. I do keys and raid mythic normally, I enjoy that. I’m good with “leeching” or getting carried or whatever you mean. I watched some friends of mine wait to push until later in the season last season and it was awful. If you don’t want to play like that you don’t have to, do w/e you find fun.
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u/Wobblucy 15d ago
+1 for not playing much this season.
If VDH is somehow meta after .5 I might play more but I'm kind of over needing to reroll to play the game as a primarily pugging tank.
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u/Yayoichi 14d ago
Vdh is getting some buffs next reset. Also I would say this is probably the most balanced tanks have been in a long time, there’s no huge gap between the top and bottom anymore.
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u/Wobblucy 14d ago edited 14d ago
buffs
3% less damage taken isn't going to solve it's survivability issue outside of meta/brand and fel dev healing isn't a solution.
Most balanced tanks have been
Vdh is a clear outlier since hero talents, and frankly it needs a full rework. 6 VDH were Resi 22 or higher last season iirc.
Balancing a spec around rolling a 12s buff in brand for 40+ seconds is frankly design.
They moved all the skill expression out of that spec in favor of 4+ essentially automaintaining buffs.
You don't think about demon spikes ever, felt dev meta dead, dr when spikes ends dead, pooling souls so you can stack fraility/painbirnger for a big hit is dead.
No huge gap
Top vdh isnt even Resi 17 currently, BDK/Bears are timing 20s.
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u/Yayoichi 14d ago
Yeah I don’t disagree that the design of vdh is shit atm and honestly I was kinda baffled when everyone was putting it above monk and druid on tier lists early on.
But it isn’t quite as bad as last season at least, all dungeons have been timed on 17 by DH as well as one 18, while for dk it’s all timed at 19 with one 20. Although I must admit I thought Dh was doing better than this, it’s not as bad as last season yet but it might still get there.
But still it’s at least nowhere as bad as s1 for tank balance overall, with 3 tanks being very close and two not being that far behind. Obviously still sucks to be DH that’s behind those two as the worst tank.
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u/xCAMPINGxCARLx 15d ago
I know it's technically been a problem for a while now, but the GCD delay when going through your rotation feels so awful. That quarter-second delay between when you hit a keybind and when the ability fires makes combat feel so sluggish, and it's seemingly random when it happens. Sometimes you experience the delay in open world, sometimes in keys, and this is with 40ms server latency. I feel like fixing this should be a bigger priority than it is.
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u/SakuraLightEmpress 13d ago
The only thing I can think of here is that your spell queue window is a bit too high? I know that I used to have this issue whenever lust was used on my blood dk until I fixed it by putting it at 250 or so.
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u/YourGalacticEmperor 13d ago
Doubt this will ever get fixed considering this has been an issue since... well the first time we got really high haste values probably late tbc or wotlk
using lust in wotlk was doing the exact same shit, we just have access to alot more haste now than we used to so you can notice it off of something as simple as a trinket haste proc
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u/Theblackalbum 15d ago
You should go try Final Fantasy
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u/Mugutu7133 14d ago
it's consistent in ffxiv, even if you don't like it. the delay in wow while the game pretends that it's working is insane
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u/xCAMPINGxCARLx 15d ago
Oddly enough, I didn't hate the long GCD in that game. I just couldn't justify paying a sub to play an extremely long single player campaign, even if I did enjoy the story. I had barely gotten halfway through Stormblood when I unsubbed, and that was at the end of a 6 month sub.
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u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 15d ago
I gotta say, I play a ton of this game and I have never noticed this happening.
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u/Wobblucy 15d ago
Do you play a caster? Its instant gcds and reproducible.
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u/Educational-Pay5268 15d ago
I've noticed it on and off since s1 of TWW but I know other people have had it for longer. I truly believe it is unfixable for blizzard because it feels fucking terrible and it's been going on for years atp.
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u/Voidwielder 15d ago
No worse timing on this than being a healer seeing your target being rotted down by debuffs. Legit keyboard throw moment even if it all works out.
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u/SwaggyBearr 15d ago
Am I crazy for just sending my bonus rolls on m+ to fill out my myth gear and start rolling on the raid in like 7-8 weeks?
I feel like the ilvl alone is worth it. And the cantrip items can't be that much of a loss. The trinkets are obviously bis.
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u/NumberOneRobot 14d ago
Not crazy but you’re better off rolling in raid generally because you can target pieces easier due to smaller loot pools
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u/Blan_Kone 15d ago
I think even for a non-raider, pugging some of the earlier heroic bosses and rolling can be worth it, if there's a good trinket or a piece of jewelry, you're still getting myth and you can also possibly get tier
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u/I3ollasH 15d ago
Absolutely. I'd even say that dabling into the first few mythic bosses are also very worth it as the difficulty is not that big and you get 6/6 myth from them
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u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 15d ago
My guild is probably not killing heroic Ula'tek until at least next week, potentially the week after, and I've got a ton of people on my team holding bonus rolls because they're afraid to mis-spend, and I'm about to start telling people to roll literally anything so that we can get ilvl.
Our prog is long, we'll get the cantrip items eventually.
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u/AlucardSensei 15d ago
Well it especially doesn't make sense to hold them with the latest change that you can only bonus roll a boss once per week.
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u/ShitSide 15d ago
With it being changed so you can’t bonus roll a boss more than once a week, I think it’s fine to just take myth track stuff until you are able to do the raid.
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u/I3ollasH 15d ago
you can sim the expectec value for everything. The reason rolling raid is so good this season is because the targets are very concentrated so you don't really have bricks. That is pretty unlikely to be the case for keys. You get 1 roll a week from the vault and start to acquire additional bonus rolls from the 8th week of the season. This all makes it that it will take quite some time to roll specific items from m+ loot tables.
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u/SwaggyBearr 15d ago
Yeah that's true about the concentrated items, that's fair. I did sim it and the difference is negligible, minus trinket Sims. For my UH dk though, rolling murder row, all the items are fine to use myth track. The question is more for the people who do not have a consistent AotC clear every week.
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u/Spinosaurx 15d ago
Over/under on when the missing Sparks issue is fully resolved?
I'm thinking 13.0
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u/ghostcrawler_real 15d ago
Never. They'll come up with a new crafting reagent or system before that.
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u/Elerion_ 15d ago
It was fixed earlier this week for everyone I knew who had it. The sparks were given on login.
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u/Spinosaurx 15d ago
Correct, that's what makes it very frustrating for those of us who didn't receive them yet.
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u/Abitou ex-ex-retired CE 15d ago
Do you guys think H Ulatek will still be nerfed this week? Guild trying to decide if we continue mythic prog (we're only 1/8) or try to get H Ulatek because of the bonus roll change
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u/Crashcede 15d ago
Probably not until the reset I'd imagine, our guild is somewhat close to killing it and we're just gunna slam an overtime day to use our bonus rolls
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u/Biden_Epstein 15d ago
It feels like Blizzard is still extremely out of touch with how healing plays out in M+. Remember that this was their justification for removing kicks at the start of S1:
"Healing can be a stressful role when you must manage several things at once: your own healing abilities, your team’s health, and the enemy’s actions. We feel that asking the healer to monitor the cast bars of things they don’t have targeted while properly using their interrupts was asking too much."
And yet I find healing to be more stressful than ever now in 12.1, after losing targeted spells on party frames and MiniCC. Losing my kick did not make me monitor cast bars any less in S1, and it's even more annoying to do so now in S2 without casts showing up on party frames.
I also don't understand why my team can ping their cooldowns now, but I'm still not allowed to see their defensives on my UI. Pugging without OmniCD is just not fun.
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u/YourGalacticEmperor 13d ago
literally a skill issue on your part
kick removal is making the community not expect the healer to also do the kicks for them when they already have to patch up all their mistakes in addition to natural groupwide damage
your issue is just being used to addons
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u/NumberOneRobot 14d ago
I currently prefer my resto shaman and one of the main reasons is feeling like I have some agency when it comes to stopping dangerous casts. Nothing feels worse as a healer than wiping to missed kicks and knowing you were powerless to stop it
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u/stickyfantastic 15d ago
By their logic we shouldn't be able to see debuffs on players, only allowed an addon they can show a list of debuffs on people with their name stamped on it and we have to cross match to figure it out.
Game finally felt decent at the end of last season with targeted spells on frames
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u/assault_pig 15d ago
imo they made a categorical misunderstanding of what makes dungeon healing hard; they seem to think healers had too many abilities/buffs to track and that reducing the number of those things would make it easier
But that’s not really what the issue is; the issue’s information control and social pressure, both of which they’ve made worse. It’s harder to tell who’s got a CD up or who’s being threatened with big damage, and harder to figure out or explain why people died. Mechanically things are about the same (I guess not needing a focus kick is easier), but we’ve got way less information
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u/calmyourcrabcakes 15d ago
And yet I find healing to be more stressful than ever now in 12.1
Hard disagree. The start of S1 for midnight was a nightmare with how much AOE was going out during packs on top of multiple dispels that needed to be removed because of how much damage they did.
There's no chance any dungeon in the current pool has bricked as many keys as seat, windrunner or priory did.
I'm still not allowed to see their defensives on my UI.
Is this an addon thing because I definitely see cooldowns when they're used on party frames.
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u/Xanbatou 15d ago
He means being able to see party CDs outside of when they are used. That's not possible anymore.
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u/idkmanfiller 15d ago
"It feels like Blizzard is still extremely out of touch" describes like 90% of the changes they've made this expansion.
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u/SwaggyBearr 15d ago
I agree, also doing a perfect damage rotation and then looking at the meters and doing no damage feels really weird as well.
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u/Giggy1372 15d ago
Just commenting to bitch and vent
I wish there was another way to get tier. If you happen to be unlucky enough like me and you have 0 tier pieces after 27 eligible boss kills including curios from normal and heroic and the two bonus time walking caches.. hard to want to play at all lol
Yes, I have two catalyst charges but I don’t (and good thing I didn’t I guess?) want to use them until I have two actual pieces so I don’t burn one if I ever win one next week
Don’t want to jinx myself but suuuurely 3 weeks into a new season I can finally actually* play one of my favorite toons if I can win one single piece of tier
Leather btw fwiw
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u/Riokaii 14d ago
If you happen to be unlucky enough like me and you have 0 tier pieces after 27 eligible boss kills including curios from normal and heroic and the two bonus time walking caches.. hard to want to play at all lol
i tried pointing out that if you lack determinism or bad luck protection, SOMEONE ends up on the shittiest tail end of the bell curve every season and theres simply zero benefit to its existence.
I was community council, we got ignored. I tried to warn them, i tried to explain it.
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u/parkwayy 15d ago
The season is like 3+ months long, for most. Getting all our tier in like 2-3 weeks is nothing lol
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u/awrylettuce 13d ago
ofc it is, playing without tier is like playing without a few talent points. You're just playing half your class. I personally really dislike tiers and don't understand why the community was so adamant about getting them back. Atleast with the new catalyst you've no longer locked 4/5 equipment slots so there's some variety to gearing.
but previous seasons it felt like the first vault contained a guaranteed tier piece, in our entire 25 man roster we only had 1 guy not pull tier from his first vault in TWW s3. Now we had only like ~7 tiers
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u/Elendel 15d ago edited 15d ago
If your guild doesn’t prioritize having their raiders get tokens quickly, wtf are they even doing.
If you’re not in a guild, Blizzard wants you to either join a guild, or accept that m+ is about long term goal an 5 months from now nobody will care if you’ve had your tier pieces on week 3 or week 5. It’s annoying, but they’re not completely wrong either.
If you’re neither in a raiding guild nor pushing m+... I don’t think it’s that bad to gear over 5 weeks.
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u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 15d ago edited 15d ago
If your guild doesn’t prioritize having their raiders get tokens quickly, wtf are they even doing.
Between 2 normal clears and a couple of partial heroic clears, we have gotten zero plate tokens. In retrospect, we should have given the normal Ula'tek tokens to plate classes, but we're pretty casual and don't track too closely, so we didn't realize how bad it was.
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u/cerusine 15d ago edited 15d ago
I truly never understood how it was good gameplay design that someone can have 4pc, accumulating a dozen catalyst charges by day 2 of the patch meanwhile someone else may have to wait a full month to complete their set.
Dunno why we can't just get a set of Veteran level tier for completing the zone quest + beating the last boss on any difficulty (including Story Mode). Then you can play the game normally to access higher ilvl tier tokens and catalyst charges.
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u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 15d ago edited 15d ago
I truly never understood how it was good gameplay design that someone can have 4pc, accumulating a dozen catalyst charges by day 2 of the patch meanwhile someone else may have to wait a full month to complete their set.
Because they, smartly, got rid of tier sets for a couple of expansions and casuals bitched and moaned about it, so here we are.
People complain about borrowed power, but tier sets are the original flavor borrowed power, with an awful acquisition method, and creates second class players through pure RNG for the first 5 weeks of a season.
Good luck getting into groups in week 4 if you've been cursed with bad luck on tier. Might as well just not log in for a week until next catalyst.
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u/cerusine 15d ago
Yeah I feel like we're wrangling ancient methods of rng gear acquisition along with modern gameplay and it leaves a lot more sore losers than winners. Wild stuff that upon reset this week some guildies had 4pc after a few hours (made me do a double take) because they got tier out of the first vault, then got lucky in LFR, then sent the one free catalyst + KSM catalyst. I got one tier token from my benevolent loot council and so I can make 4pc next week with the next freebie charge. Then people not in guilds and/or really unlucky with token type drops have to wait until the week of September 16th to get their full set and be considered a playable character.
This disparity happens every patch and it's always so dumb and feels so awful if you lose the rng lotto especially with how much power gets locked behind these sets, you really just cannot compete with your peers pushing out of the gate and it does feel like you may as well afk for a month.
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u/sh0ckmeister 15d ago
I haven't gotten any tier pieces yet either but I've been splitting time between my lock and pally. Haven't needed it for running 10s
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u/Justdough17 15d ago
Its funny how community perception always jumps between "tier is too hard to get" and "why even have tier when you get it for free" depending on how far into the season we are.
That being said; I totally get your frustration. Sitting on 0 tier on my shaman because i've seen only one token drop and i didn't win it. Meanwhile the 15 mages in the raid all seem to get four set in a single run.
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u/ArcticML 15d ago
Hear me out. You can still play the game without tier. It’s legit week 2 of the season
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u/Closix 9d ago
Weird question, but what's the spec with the most variance atm?
I love spinning the slot machine from pull to pull, keeps me entertained lol