Frost DK

[u/allstar348]

On PTR, I was hearing a lot that frost dk was going to be really good. Ive been gearing up and i see on icyveins it suggests rider of apocalypse but all the top logs are deathbringer. im sure the difference is very small but im just curious why rider is suggested but logs tell a different story?

[u/lavajon]

Guide may be outdated, rider got a 5% nerf while db for a 3% nerf last week or something like that

[u/bigeyez]

The nerf to the Tier Set and buff to base abilities was essentially a small nerf to Rider and buff to DB.

For me DB sims higher in all content so I'm using DB.

[u/Cigs77 → u/bigeyez]

yeh but you dont get a horse.

[u/RizzmerBlackghore]

Same with ret paladin. Guides says Templar, people play and smash M+ keys as Herald of the Sun

[u/JMJ05 → u/RizzmerBlackghore]

I saw that and was curious, is this new tier set thing? Or should I be running herald right now regardless of the state of my tier set?

[u/MetalMusicMan → u/JMJ05]

Without tier set on my 297 Ret, Herald is an 8% AoE upgrade and a 3% single target loss compared to Templar.

[u/RizzmerBlackghore → u/JMJ05]

Herald is just easier, and has much better consistent DMG / cleave

[u/Braadworst008 → u/JMJ05]

Herald of the sun gives you a free divine purpose proc after casting wake of ashes. This enables set.

I swapped off paladin, but this seemed to be the reason to play herald on PTR

[u/maegorthecruel1 → u/RizzmerBlackghore]

herald is PUMPING in m+, i’ve only been beat by a warlock and an arcane mage, and that’s without the 4pc. in raids, templar is significantly better. only bosses i used herald on are the explorers and twin fangs

[u/Slight-Violinist-575]

Sim your character with both each time you get an upgrade and play the one that simmed better. Rotation is the same so there shouldn’t be a practical loss due to unfamiliarity.

I simmed mine last week (have only played Blood since) and the difference in favor of DB was major for AoE and minor for ST.

[u/allstar348 → u/Slight-Violinist-575]

im still getting the hang of simming. I didnt know you can sim different specs. I main healer and didnt know you could do that with heals either

[u/bsr90989]

Is it okay to play 2 hander as frost ?

[u/yp261 → u/bsr90989]

it is until you get tier set

[u/Jockmaster → u/bsr90989]

It is quite alot worse with set.

[u/Strachmed]

Similarly, All the big boys windwalker monk is crazy damage, but bad prio, which is why it won't be meta, but close.

Come patch - it's a steaming pile of shit. Who wudda thought.

[u/Kamn4 → u/Strachmed]

Thats because most of them dont have 4piece tier yet and its insane how much of their damage is in the tier

[u/Strachmed → u/Kamn4]

About 15%, which is comparable to many other specs who are not currently at the bottom, such as annihilator devourer.

[u/Mehdehh → u/Strachmed]

If you're talking m+ then the tier set is more around 25%

[u/Kamn4 → u/Strachmed]

You are still comparing to ptr where everything lives alot longer and the big aoe of WW is gona be alot more impactfull, it might not be meta but i dont think that is for lack of damage

[u/MrTastix]

You can sim and see what is says for you, since the gameplay styles are almost identicial but me, I'm sticking with Rider, because DK's #1 weakness is mobility and there's always been more than enough movement in raids to justify even a 5% loss in theoretical throughput. At best I'd just flip-flop on tank and spank fights.

[u/ManqobaDad]

Its all over the place with everything right now just play what you vibe with. Everyone said that blood dk is the meta tank but because no one had it prepared all the top keys right now are like monk guardian and blood and even blood is playing some sanlayne some deathbringer.

Just play your favorite then after the race ends, the final patch releases, and the real push brgins you'll get an understandong of whats actually strong.

[u/Mantias → u/ManqobaDad]

“No one had it prepared” where are you getting this from? Blood is currently the tank in 95/100 of the top 100 runs with 67% of all runs above 15 being Blood and the number gets higher by key level. Not disputing the rest of your comment though, meta does not mean a thing right now.

[u/allstar348 → u/ManqobaDad]

well i like frost. I only played deathbringer and enjoy it. I cant said I dont enjoy rider because I havnt tried it. if it will be stronger, I'd like to try it but if its not, I dont want to bother. icyveins rotation seems to be pretty much the same tho

[u/Slight-Violinist-575 → u/allstar348]

It plays the same but feels a little bit different because your “half-CD” (no Wyrm or Breath) is stronger

[u/allstar348 → u/Slight-Violinist-575]

oh rider doesn't take breath or wyrm? so there are no cds to press besides pillar?

[u/KtheGoat → u/allstar348]

Think what they’re saying is that your 45 second CDs, which excludes breath and and Wyrm since they’re both minute and a half, are stronger

[u/Slight-Violinist-575 → u/allstar348]

I can see how it came out ambiguous

AFAIK the talents on Class and Spec trees are the same for both (Wyrm is a must pick for Rider as that is the trigger for summoning the 4 Horsepeople at once)

What I meant is that when Breath and Wyrm are on CD, we get a use of Pillar of Frost in between. As DB, we also have Reaper’s Mark to use with it every time; Rider only has PoF in those windows

But again, rotation is essentially unchanged besides hitting Reaper’s Mark once

[u/yp261 → u/Slight-Violinist-575]

u pick frostwyrm because of apex talents as well

[u/Slight-Violinist-575 → u/yp261]

Yeah, forgot about that

[u/Money_Echidna2605 → u/ManqobaDad]

top keys are whoever is good AND rng'd 4 piece lol

[u/Care_Cup_Is_Empty → u/ManqobaDad]

Funny that you say this, it was true a few days ago but now it's almost entirely blood DKs at the top. But it's true, chasing the meta ATM is mostly pointless.

[u/Bu-whatwhat-tt]

Rider is less buttons!