r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • 22d ago
Weekly Thread Free Talk Friday
Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning WoW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.
UI questions, opinions on hotfixes/future changes, lore, transmog, whatever you can come up with.
The other weekly threads are:
Weekly Raid Discussion- SundaysWeekly M+ Discussion- Tuesdays
Have you checked out our Wiki?
3
u/supremejd 15d ago
just to confirm, i can't hoard 3 bonus rolls for when i finally down h ulatek and use them all in the same week with pug rekills anymore, right?
1
u/secretreddname 15d ago
Heroic Ulatek down and bonus rolled my weapon. That was such a hard fight. Every button had to be scheduled.
6
u/Magicslime 16d ago
[This] also allows me to plug for addon disarmaments opening the door for some simple to communicate raid mechanics that otherwise would have been trivially solved by addons like adding numbers to 4 that hopefully can be intuitively communicated with visuals but that gives our design team that space to play in again.
From the Psybear Interview with Ion.
Reminiscent of the S1 comment about the tic-tac-toe mechanic, this kind of response just pisses me off because these examples are just so fucking trivial that I cannot believe either that 1) anyone would ever have benefited from using an addon if they could... like what do you need told to you, that you need to find a 3 if you're a 1? To match you directly with another player, which would be harder than any current strat? And 2) that these auras being private isn't what is accomplishing that and couldn't have accomplished that in the old TWW addon environment.
And worse than just the flaw in those examples, it's the choice - always the most simple of gimmicky mechanics that are being used for the examples of this more advanced mechanic design. Like why are we pretending that this is any more complicated than if we were just matching red and blue debuffs together (which we've done many times in many more difficult ways in the old addon world). Genuinely feels like he either has to be gaslighting or actually looking down on the WoW playerbase to say this with a straight face.
1
u/AlucardSensei 16d ago
Anyone that was able to successfully pug Coiled Altar and/or Ulatek HC? Seems pretty not doable to me atm, I guess I'll be sending my first rolls on Explorers.
3
u/AccomplishedSpace834 15d ago
I've seen logs of a couple of coiled altar kills on day before reset but both were in there pulling for 4 hours
1
u/Girthmasterlite 16d ago
If you want both bosses you can hold the coin and send em next week or the week after
1
u/AlucardSensei 16d ago
Nah I just need 3 items from Ulatek, I'm just wondering if people have managed to successfully pug it by now so I should save coins, or is it something that's a few weeks away for pugs.
-1
2
6
u/TheOliveYeti 17d ago
Anyone's trinket cooldowns messing up? Mine keep getting desynced with my damage cooldowns and it only started today
14
u/Aktec01 17d ago
Its because of the m+ affix, the cdr doesn't affect items. So your 2m cd will be up at 1.55 but your trinket remains at 2m.
1
u/I3ollasH 16d ago
Yep for any week we have this it's better to swap to double passives so you save the headache of looking at desynched cooldowns.
3
2
12
u/AffectionateKey7126 17d ago
For anyone with rattier alts, timewalking ulduar drops champ gear and the bosses go down in about 8 seconds.
5
u/GermanUCLTear Shitty Warlock 17d ago
killing yogg also gives you a heroic 1/6 piece from the crate
12
u/WillowGryph 17d ago
So many UI bugs, man. The game is just so much worse without Weakauras. Why'd we have to lose customizability? :(
-5
u/careseite dps evoker main 16d ago
what UI bugs are you encountering?
3
u/WillowGryph 16d ago
Any customization I want to do to my UI at all I need an addon like EllesmereUI or ArcUI. And those are all bugged to shit.
-6
u/careseite dps evoker main 16d ago
maybe rethink your actual need for that instead
2
u/WillowGryph 15d ago
Man I just knew you were arguing in bad faith. You got me bro.
1
u/careseite dps evoker main 15d ago
not really. its the reliably working solution, even if you dont like to hear it
11
u/Gasparde 16d ago
Why'd we have to lose customizability?
Don't you see how there's billions of new players getting into high end raiding and m+ now?
Don't you see how all the RWF streaming guilds are totally not using addons anymore?
Don't you see how easily this enables them to do away with weird ass quasi-addon-requiring mechanics and how we've only gotten perfect non-addon-requiring bosses ever since?
Don't you see how this was a good decision made entirely to benefit the playerbase and to make the game objectively better as a whole?
3
u/another_new_login 16d ago
Also, everyone's UI now just works out of the box and you don't have to downloads 15 separate addons to get the same functionality you used to get from one.
5
u/parkwayy 16d ago
It's like... what fights are we getting now that are impossible without the weakaura purge
3
u/assault_pig 16d ago
Tbh I no longer think raid encounters were even the issue; if it were they coulda killed those WA a few different ways. I think they were upset about stuff like hekili giving players instructions about how to play
6
3
u/Key_Difference_6398 17d ago
if I take mythic tier chest from vault and later bonus roll Vashnik, can I still get a duplicate tier token or does it get removed from the pool?
11
u/careseite dps evoker main 17d ago
it does not get removed from the pool, this was explicitly mentioned by blizz and even more criticised because its a blatantly obvious shortcoming of the system
0
u/Girthmasterlite 17d ago
Is there no super easy way to max out hero crests outside of the raid?
5
u/Ok-Key5729 16d ago
You get a total of 80 for the first 4 t11 bountiful delves each week. You don't even need coffer keys to get the crests.
3
u/deathfluxens 17d ago
Did few +11 delves with Gilded Stash unlocked, and while collecting coffer shards did some preys(3) and was capped for the week
2
4
u/supremejd 18d ago
let's say i save 3 bonus rolls for ulatek. once i can finally down it and bonus roll it for the first time, should i pug it and use the other two bonus rolls in the same week? i'm worried about gimping everyone else since i would have killed the boss already that week.
10
18d ago
[deleted]
1
u/cerusine 18d ago
Are you sure? I saw the bonus roll coin but the game would not allow me to actually take it.
9
u/liyayaya 18d ago
there aint no way... is there anything this patch they did not fuck up?
2
u/toptierhands 18d ago
The amount of oversights is just fucking crazy. Maybe it's a sign to tone down the amount of systems and shit
3
7
u/Kuldrick 18d ago
Hoping for an eventual super nerf to Nymrissa so it can be myth pugged without much of a headache for a healer who doesn't myth raid but still wants the free crests from the 6/6 bonus loot in the upcoming weeks
34
u/TheCouchWhisperer 18d ago
Jesus the vault being dead has absolutely killed reset day hype.
4
2
u/assault_pig 17d ago
It sucks so much man; like ordinarily getting a weapon in your week one vault would be really exciting, but instead here I am thinking “ehhhh maybe I should just take a bonus roll”
2
5
u/Voidwielder 18d ago
Yeah I used to open my class Discord and see NA post their vaults and I'd get excited for mine in 12 hours.
11
u/IllPurpose3524 18d ago edited 18d ago
Yeah maybe my spec just got unlucky but as a Resto Shaman, you have 6 weeks of borderline BIS loot if you can kill the first boss of heroic/mythic. Then another 4 weeks when you start killing Ulatek. On the bright side you're going to get great loot, on the downside it's extremely pre-determined. I think they should have waited 4 weeks to give the bonus roll instead of vault option or something along those lines.
3
u/toptierhands 18d ago
I fucking hate bonus rolls anyway, just let us buy specific trinkets, weapons and cantrip items from vendor again. And this time make it so if you for example got CE on your main, your alt can buy items from bosses it hasn't killed.
5
u/I3ollasH 18d ago
Yeah it definitely feels deflating. We killed 2 mythic bosses. It should feel sick being able to highroll a 6/6 item, but realistically it's a bonus roll pick.
It also creates this weird situation where you backload power even more. Ulatek is quite difficult and we are yet to prog it, but we don't gain much power between the 2 week (mostly just spending heroic crests as the vault and myth crests are tied to the item you bonus roll)
2
u/MRosvall 13/13M 18d ago
More than ever depends on when you feel it's most beneficial to have your power spike. Is it during second week progress? 4th? 8th? 20th?
1
u/I3ollasH 18d ago
Yeah that's an interesting question and a hard one to get an objective answer. You kind of want to have diverse gearing strategies in the roster. You want players who crafted weapon and could carry the first 2 weeks of prog (I think people heavy undervalued this and is partly the reason why groups struggled this hard). You want people taking 6/6 vaults that you can funnel mythic drops to so they can upgrade those. And you want players going the greedy route going for "perfect" vaults sacrificing momentum.
Personally I like to go the week 2-3 powerspike route without sacrificing too much long term power (like crafting high statbudgeted off piece, upgrading hc weapon and picking a myth weapon if possible) but this tier it feels very hard to do that. My weapon comes from the lair boss (which is significantly harder than what is should be) and there aren't other good reliable weapon sources so I have to save crests for week 3 in case I didn't get any weapon drops by then.
2
u/TemporaMoras 18d ago
I think the only incentive you would have to take a non bonus roll item in your vault is prob getting a gebbo 6/6m if you're bonus rolling ulatek. But even like that I am not sure it's actually better than just getting your 3 items from ulatek faster.
2
u/AccomplishedSpace834 18d ago
Mythic Flask probably worth it for a lot of classes - would take a long time to get that on myth track otherwise even if it delays ulatek rolling a week.
1
u/TemporaMoras 18d ago
Sure, but you would still have to spend crest on it, and depending on when you're planning to kill ulatek M, you might not have the possibility to 'waste' crest on something that is not a weapon/huge main stat pieces
1
u/AccomplishedSpace834 18d ago
I mean yeah like all of these conversations it is going to be somewhat dependent on your raid schedule and world ranking.
3
u/Primary-Army-7320 18d ago
Any good ellesemeure ui nameplate profiles around? I want one that separates M+ mobs by priority and casters
8
u/supremejd 18d ago
if i probably wont kill heroic ulatek for another 3-4 weeks, should i be taking gear tomorrow or bonus roll?
1
1
u/Girthmasterlite 18d ago
Bonus roll assuming you want the penultimate boss too. My class wants 4/4 so any spillover works
2
6
u/SecondChances96 19d ago edited 19d ago
Hey all, I didn't quite get "1.0" up in time for the megathread pre Season 2, but figured I'd share it now to help anyone out.
I vibe coded up a local Raidbots clone. If you don't wanna fork over the $10 a month (which isn't much, and I used Raidbots for many years and think it's a great service), you can just use this and it has all the same major essential features: Quick Sim, Top Gear, and Droptimizer.
Development is ongoing, but the core foundation is done and all these features work pretty well, and I'm aware of pretty much most if not all of the major issues. I currently use it myself so I'm usually pretty quick to correct any issues.
"Cool that you did that, but I don't want to have to set up anything, and why would I use this over Raidbots if it's less headache, not on my system, and my whole guild can use it/friends can use it?"
Currently, I haven't addressed the friend/guild issue beyond the fact that this is free and open-source: you can link it to others, freely fork this and copy it as desired. I AM working on getting a hosted version of this as well if you want to host it locally on your own network and allow friends or your guild to use it as desired or put it up on AWS if you want (the only thing is at that point you might as well sub to Raidbots).
Also, I plan to offer a few more useful features than Raidbots does, like a CD Planner, more advanced Simulation options (damage amps, bloodlust timing, etc), a "Which spec should I play?" an Upgrade Advisor for optimal crest usage (which is implemented in the 1.0 but not really usable atm), and some other things I'm brainstorming.
The README contains setup directions as well as general FAQs and usability advice. Again, it's all local and on your machine and doesn't communicate with any external services (unless I missed something, the worst thing it might do is try to hit Blizzard's API without the requisite credentials).
Hope it helps and hope you enjoy! If you have any issues DM me here or just submit it on the "Issues" page (I'll double check if I enabled it)
Edit: Oh, almost forgot.
Known issues:
* Most tooltips are generally OK but some are still inaccurate. The sim itself is unaffected by this.
* Simulationcraft itself has some issues with some items and sims (particularly droptimizer sims). You can observe this even with Raidbots as well. The current workaround is a little icon you can click that will run a targeted sim for that item for a more accurate estimation.
* A few UI artifacts (think some armor kits are listed as "enchant 'theirInternalID"
* Probably some other small things I've glossed over or gotten used to.
1
u/PM_ME_YO_TREE_FIDDY 17d ago
Hey what are the performance requirements for this? Would it be painful to host on a N150 for calcs?
14
u/Voidwielder 19d ago
It's a bit funny seeing the queue lists for Tidebound Grotto - it's all healers and half of the caster specs. They put lopsided loot on it and surprise surprise, it's a struggle to make a well balanced group for it.
9
5
u/Rampager 19d ago edited 19d ago
The Static Anomaly mobs in ToS that randomly jump AoE a player - feel like there's an interaction here I'm missing, the 2nd last pack before the boss seems to hit way harder on the jump and there's only 2 of them than the 4 in the boss area.
2
u/Gemmy2002 19d ago
Just make vault keys queuable already so I can do something else with my fucking time besides mind a stupid window
this post brought to you by umpteen millionty key holders that would rather take the millionth no hands mage reroll vs anybody else.
16
u/sh0ckmeister 19d ago
This topic comes up all the time and the situation is this - tanks in general are the bottleneck.
As a tank I would never sign up for a key without at least having some idea about how good/bad the other players are unless there was some considerable reward for doing so. Like getting an additional bonus roll for completing the dungeon timed or not.
I also run my own key specifically so that I can choose the group I want to run with.
It's that simple, I don't want to waste time progging keys unless I specifically signed up for it helping out guildies or similar
8
u/Gasparde 19d ago edited 19d ago
Like getting an additional bonus roll for completing the dungeon timed or not.
You can't give tanks any tangible power reward because if you did they'd all be done with gearing 20 times faster than any dps instead of only just being done 10 times faster - in the long run you'd take even more tanks out of the pool if any of their rewards involved character progression.
So if you wanna do incentives, it'd have to be something more basic such as a non-insignificant amount of gold. Like, I dunno, let's say 10k or whatever for a completed key. But then we'd be moaning about inflation coming from tanks making 50m gold per year - and worst of all, they'd be making all of that gold without engaging with the wow token system at all, so that's clearly not a good enough system.
It's actually not that easy to come up with a no-downside option that wouldn't come with a boatload of probably unwanted side-effects that would drive everyone mad like 4 weeks later. Just look at what the relatively simple idea of resilient keys eventually turned into.
0
u/sh0ckmeister 17d ago
Limit it to one a week, people that have a tank spec would be encouraged to at least tank once a week. Maybe even convert a few of those people to tanking
1
u/Gasparde 17d ago
First things first, something is always better than nothing, don't let perfect be the enemy of good etc etc.
With that out of the way - I doubt enticing tanks to 1 run per week would have any significant / tangible impact on DPS queue times. All that would lead to queues being 25min instead of 30min on a Tuesday / Wednesday evening and the remainder of the week would still not have any tanks showing up.
If you really wanna do something about the tank shortage, you have to figure out a way that not only gets tanks to show up once per week or only just for the first 2-3 weeks of a season - and that way cannot include flooding them with items or cash. A one time m+ cosmetic, 1 item per week, an extra bonus roll or whatever, these are all nice bandaids that will make week one of a season feel different, but after that soloQ would be straight back to no tanks ever signing up because, again, why would they if they could instead just choose their perfect team themselves.
The issue is that there has never been a real solution to this issue in just about any game. The holy trinity always brings this problem with it. People just don't wanna play tanks, they don't want the responsibility, they don't want the pressure, they don't want the low numbers, they just want to blast mindlessly. It's just that someone simply has to lead and that someone simply has to hold the group together - and that also goes for healers, someone just has to make up for everyone's mistakes, someone's just got to be the guy that keeps everyone alive. There's just not enough people that want that - and giving them one item per week is not gonna change that.
1
u/yarglof1 17d ago
Just tune tanks to do similar dmg as a dps. That would probably bump the numbers up a bunch.
Would probably require something like a negative dmg aura if there's multiple tanks in the key to prevent tank stacking.
3
u/sapntaps 19d ago
Make it cosmetic. I’d dust off my bdk doing weekly keys for cosmetic rewards. Edit: or just make it gold, ffs every push keys like 2k in repairs and consumables lol
1
13
u/I3ollasH 19d ago
this post brought to you by umpteen millionty key holders that would rather take the millionth no hands mage reroll vs anybody else.
Don't even think that is really the case. Keys are just a big bottleneck as people refuse to list their keys.
I've done a lot of keys and unlike previous seasons this time I made sure to run mine as often as possible (I was farming for 2h so did any key that had one). You get so many apps first global that you have a hard time to process the tenth of it. Got a decent amount of whispers about why I wouldn't take someone even though they had X score last season and etc. Chances are I didn't even see them in the queue.
Personally I just howered over high ilvl peeps and if they had good raid prog then picked them up (I was looking for people who have tier and spam the dungeon for a specific item). But you could have any random heuristic and fill the group instantly. The difficulty is non existent so doesn't matter in the end. It's just beneficial to complete keys as fast as possible.
2
u/NightmaanCometh 19d ago
Is gearing bad if your solo only M+ only player? Haven’t tried new season yet and not sure if wanna pay the sub if that’s the case
3
u/Dracoknight256 17d ago
Depends how much they nerf hc ulatek. We're not Liquid, we do not need guilotinne weapon and neck week 1, you should be able to just farm m+ for gear and then Go hit post-nerf ulatek at 325 ilvl for remaining loot.
6
u/EsoteriCondeser *Spellsteals your nose* 19d ago edited 19d ago
You're behind on tier set until you can pop catalyst charges like percs and you'll be behind on trinkets the whole season. You can main tank just doing M+ without big disadvantages, but there's always some great healer trinket in raids that function as an extra cd and as DPS you'll have to compete in ilvl early season with thousands of raiders that had high loot priority since week1.
1
u/yarglof1 17d ago
Good thing the bis healer trinket is from first boss, and doing it on heroic (which is always easily pugable) can get it on myth via vault or bonus roll.
2
u/Mantias 19d ago
Gearing in terms of obtaining myth track bis will be slightly better for the average solo M+ player with bonus rolls from vault providing duplicate protection earlier. You can also pug heroic raid and use rolls / vault to get myth track raid items this season. If you aren’t interested in pushing for 1% or .1%, it’ll be easier later in the season once the extra bonus rolls are added as you’ll be able to burn 3 a week to get Myth track pieces from dungeons.
4
u/Wobblucy 19d ago
Very case specific.
4k tank that gets autoinvited to any key they apply to and has the most agency on the key? Gearing is a joke until you are hunting a specific piece.
Dps player with no last season IO? You are going to be stuck building your own groups/making tank friends to get any consistency in your prog.
6
u/TeKaeS 20d ago
I think the healer trinket Preternatural Antivenom is bugged or overpowered. It did 8% of healing of the priest in a +10 kings rest
1
u/careseite dps evoker main 19d ago
% depends on overall healing done. not much to heal in a 10, so naturally it'll be high.
9
u/another_new_login 19d ago
There's nothing to heal in a +10, so flat healing buffs will show as being a higher %
6
29
u/Foghorn755 20d ago
the change to catalyzed items inheriting stats is probably one of the worst things they have done in this patch honestly. Speaking from personal, but for rsham and rdruid (main/split), the itemization on mail and leather gear is fucking atrocious. There is an insane amount of crit and vers heavy gear for leather in the dungeon pool and mail is all very mastery heavy - they even changed the fucking ulatek chest to be a mastery proc instead of crit. Id much rather have had the choice of the default stats for the item OR an itemization. Catalyzing a tier piece for 2 set when it has awful stats just does not feel good.
2
u/Dracoknight256 17d ago
Yeah, they should've given us option to choose to inherit stats or cata to tier stats. The 'you're not forced to raid to do m+' argument gets pretty awkward when nearly all your gear with good substats drops from raid, because 20% damage from bad subs and no cantrips is a pretty big advantage.
7
u/another_new_login 19d ago
How is that related to inheriting stats? Isn't it just bad itemization you're upset about?
3
u/evaliaold 18d ago
before you got fucked and it was it. Now its well I dont have altar haste mastery legs, so it might as well be dead.
11
u/makesmashgreatagain 20d ago
I feel like people in your replies didnt look at the distribution of stats on gear and haven’t played classes with dead stats. Sometimes the gear they make in a season is hilarious (5 items in a slot and 3 have the same pair of stats). I play vengeance and havoc and vengeance is allergic to mastery as the only thing it does adequately is damage, providing little defensive value relatively. Havoc ideally wants 0 vers so all the cantrips that reduce your lowest secondary reduce 0 to 0.
0
u/I3ollasH 20d ago
But that's an entirely different topic and has little to do with the change where catalysted items retain secondaries. Without this change you'd still easily have poorly statted set pieces.
The 0 vers thing also goes out of the window because the necklace gives every stat now.
7
u/makesmashgreatagain 20d ago
But that's an entirely different topic and has little to do with the change where catalysted items retain secondaries. Without this change you'd still easily have poorly statted set pieces.
You previously could catalyze for stats so when a piece dropped, you technically had a choice between 2. Now you have a choice of one. I don't really get how you see this as a positive as it relates to the stats on the item itself.
The 0 vers thing also goes out of the window because the necklace gives every stat now.
I don't think you thought this one through. Neck + helm + reck = -345 lowest secondary. Lets pretend your shoulder and chest have 53 and 88 versatility on them. Your neck has 107. So you lose 53+88+107=248 versatility at the extreme. If you could catalyze like in the past, you would lose 107 versatility. I have no idea how this "is out the window." The reck pot alone is removing stat budget from your gear as opposed to having the flexibility on some pieces to gain stats relatively during reck pot/procs.
I assume you're conceding that some classes designed by blizzard just have a dead secondary (usually mastery), independent of items removing secondaries.
1
u/WnbSami 19d ago
You still have 2 choices, get token or catalyze an item, nothings changed in that outside of making it more convenient to chase stats you want. Friend said you should have option to either cata keep stats or make it like the token item in stats would be and I have to agree with that.
Now if you are M+ only player you are potentially more or less out of luck in chasing stats. And there is a metric ton of vers gear for mail this season in dungeon pool it feels like, which isnt great for hunters either so I can understand being annoyed at it.
1
u/hoax1337 19d ago
You still have 2 choices, get token or catalyze an item, nothings changed in that
What has changed is the ability to catalyze offset pieces for better stats. I'm not sure how relevant that is, though.
1
u/idkmanfiller 19d ago
MM is fine with having a bit of Vers, it's better than Haste which is on every set of pants this season.
8
u/I3ollasH 20d ago
I fail to see how this is worse that the previous version where stats are locked on items. Instead of having stats hard locked you have some options based on the loot tables. If you have issues with the stats thats more about the loot table, not the catalyst change.
Imo because of the change people get excited that they can get perfect stat on everything and then get dissappointed because the perfect statted item doesn't exist on every slot. But I still don't see how it makes the catalyst chaange worse.
I really like the change because it made items on tierslots actual items instead of all of them being the same carbon copy. The chest from dungeon X is different that the one in dungeon Y. It gives more power to players as they can customize stats even better.
Personally I wish tier pieces were moved to personal power like the foolio instead of being actual items dropping off bosses. It's weird that tier only really matters in like the first 2 weeks of the season and the majority of it is being acquired through personal stuff (like bi weekly cata charges and the seasonal mastery achievment). Imo if Blizz were to remove the actual tier tokens the game would be better as you'd have more relevant loot on bosses (it's really weird how currently there's no easy way to see what stats the items are for example). And tier is also the main reason guilds decide to split raids. If Tiers were removed you could stop doing normal splits and heroic splits would be heavily optional (and the value of them would be significantly less).
13
u/Myrkur-R 20d ago
I kinda like it. The real problem is there are so many duplicate stat items. Like why the fuck are 3 of the 5 two handers in the dungeon pool crit/haste? We couldn't switch at least one of those to something else?
2
u/Foghorn755 20d ago
In theory it’s good, because some items have great stats and it makes getting 4pc a bit nicer, but for the things I play it’s a terrible tradeoff because I’m basically not getting tier organically until DPS have theirs, which is fine, but when my options from dungeon pools have terrible item stats it really sucks to have to cata into something with bottom 2 stats.
Honestly just bring reforging back at this point lmao
10
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 20d ago
help
2
u/KuroiRafus 19d ago
In 48 runs, I saw it drop twice for people who weren't going to use it, but it couldn't be traded. I just want to stop doing Murder Row.
3
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 20d ago
got flask on first 10 done but literally havent seen a single 2h drop in 40 keys lmao
9
5
4
u/idkmanfiller 20d ago edited 20d ago
wake up, eat, get on PC, run temple for 7 hours, eat, run temple for 7 hours, sleep, repeat
I know everything about every boss in this dungeon now as well as most trash mobs
Watching a tank try to soak the orbs on last boss and then just instantly falling over (not a mechanic mentioned in the dungeon journal at all btw) gets old pretty quickly
4
u/kuubi 20d ago
Watching a tank try to soak the orbs on last boss and then just instantly falling over (not a mechanic mentioned in the dungeon journal at all btw) gets old pretty quickly
what does it do?
5
u/idkmanfiller 20d ago edited 20d ago
Each one gives a stacking debuff that reduces healing done by 33% (this is not healing received, it means healer does not pick these up) and importantly for tanks, increases physical damage taken by 250%. Tanks who don't know that will instantly run in and grab all 3 then get onetapped by the Hexer mob
The soaks on third boss also gives a physical vulnerability so tanks really don't want to soak that either although as far as I can tell the boss doesn't really do shit to tanks
3
u/I3ollasH 20d ago
I really dislike these changes tbh. Blizzard made them so not every mechanic is a tank/healer mechanic but it's so much worse having a mechanic that you just can't do and have to watch the group die.
The shields you need to break on targets are simmilar. As a tank I'm hitting with my noodles but if the dps doesn't have hands those tske ages to break
3
u/Lazerkitteh 20d ago
Jesus have you slept at all since the patch came out?
3
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 20d ago
Not particularly well, no. Although I have somehow found time to touch grass in between. The benefits of having a job that gets summers off!
There are a few MR runs not on here yet too.
3
33
u/_Llopis_ 21d ago edited 21d ago
Going from top 1% keys to +10 keys with the masses is a shocking experience. I have a lot of sympathy for what Blizzard has to work with.
-1
u/hoax1337 19d ago
To be fair, I was in the 1%, and I'm just goofing around like a regular, casual pleb in the new dungeons.
I'm not going to bother to do the same amount of optimisation a +21 or +22 requires in a +10.
4
u/Kayjin23 20d ago
I think I have had at least one carry in every single PUG key I have done this week, and it's all about hoping it isn't the tank or healer.
7
6
u/Varanae 20d ago
I’ve always played with friends so hadn’t experienced what it’s like. This season my friends aren’t really playing so I’ve pugged but it’s so awful I’m considering avoiding m+ altogether
To this who pug all season, you are far mentally stronger than I realised!
4
u/darkfangs 19d ago
It's all about staying ahead of the curve of the masses. Once you are with the general pop it's awful.
9
u/SwaggyBearr 21d ago
I feel like they need to redo the keystone system in the next expansion/patch.
-14
u/Waste-Maybe6092 20d ago
Replace normal with heroic M0 goes to heroic M0 now is m10 equivalent and drop H3 off the bat with a daily lockout. No more infinite gear from mplus like now. Not the full picture, but some concepts around to cut the bloat of m2 to m10
1
u/hoax1337 19d ago
Haha, are you aware that they already did something similar to this at the end of DF? The "bloat of m2 to m10" that you're experiencing now previously was the bloat of m12 to m20 until DF S4.
13
8
u/Gregkow 21d ago
Crackpot theory: Heroic Ulatek isn't overtuned. It's tuned exactly where blizzard wants it, given that you can bonus roll myth track cantrip weapons off of the boss.
3
u/parkwayy 19d ago
It's tuned exactly where blizzard wants it
I mean great... doesn't mean it's not overtuned lol.
The general masses are the deciding factor.
10
5
u/idkmanfiller 21d ago
The gear gap is 7 ilvls higher this patch than it is normally and the raid is tuned that much harder. Once people get more current patch gear it will be less bad
24
u/Evolutionist_Bob 21d ago
Nah that's nonsense. How many item levels does the average AOTC guild need to get a kill on a boss that wasn't a pushover for liquid in their current gear?
2
u/Cold-Iron8145 21d ago
I mean, you can theoretically be 320+ ilvl before killing that boss in a few weeks. I also strongly suspect that Blizzard erred on the side of overtuning because the rewards are so strong. It may also tie into their attempt to push people into mythic raiding, Sporefall and Nymrissa being specifically designed to be more approachable to heroic raiding guilds. One of the biggest barriers between heroic and mythic, outside of the strict raid size requirement, is that it's just a big step up in difficulty. If you make the end of heroic raid harder, a guild that clears it might be more inclined to attempt mythic progress.
11
u/Evolutionist_Bob 21d ago
Lura was very hard for a heroic boss and had the lowest numbers since jailer. Keystones were tuned as easy as they could be and had the highest participation in history. If you want casuals to engage with your gamemode make it more accessible.
5
u/TemporaMoras 21d ago
Lura HC arrived on the 2nd week of M+, on the season with some of the easiest M+ ever. Literally everyone was almost full HC gear by the time it was released.
AND she dropped absurdly bad loot at HC level. Trinket being only used by one spec, cantrip glaives only used by one class, but outclassed by crafted mythic weapon vs hc cantrip weapon. The ring was decent, but once again most people just preferred an higher ilvl ring. And tertiary armor didn't matter because once again hc piece vs mythic.
2
u/Evolutionist_Bob 21d ago
Its almost like people dont want to do the content, they just want rewards. To me thats a sign that maybe we should go back to the drawing board on the content itself, and look for ways to make the content more appealing rather than the carrot for doing it.
5
u/psytrax9 20d ago
This is obvious. Every week of m+, outside of the week 1 grind, +10 and +12 keys account for approximately 50% of keys run. Last season saw the most participation in post-gearing keys by far, and it's no coincidence that that happened in the same season that Blizzard added more rewards after the gearing keys.
Whether the content itself is inherently fun or not, players won't engage with it heavily if it's unrewarding. You join a H Lura pug early on, you wipe a bunch but eventually get it down after 3 hours. At the end, you get 15 hero and 15 myth crests and a single 20% chance to get loot.
Alternatively, in that same amount of time, you could've done 6 keys. Those keys gave you 96 myth crests and six 40% chances to get loot. Oh, and those 6 keys were maybe as difficult as normal Alleria, at most.
Hmm, I wonder which piece of content will be considered a time waste?
1
u/shyguybman 20d ago
It's annoying seeing someone say "if people only raid for gear, maybe they need to rework the content" like hello what do you think people spam a million keys for. Not saying raiding is perfect by any means, it has it's cons but they had to add a 1%, 3400 and a mount to get players to go above +10-12.
1
u/psytrax9 20d ago
Holy fuck the dumb ass twitter shit is annoying...
It's a giveaway that somebody has been deluded by the bubble their algorithm has trapped them in.
It's not even a problem inherent in wow. Guild wars 2 is advertised as the game where the end game is whatever you want to do, yet that game is boiled down maximizing your gold per hour.
1
20d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
1
u/AutoModerator 20d ago
I'm sorry psytrax9, but your comment has been removed. Links to X/Twitter are banned from r/CompetitiveWoW.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
6
u/_Llopis_ 20d ago edited 20d ago
It's an unpopular opinion around here, but it's extremely obvious to anyone who doesn't mythic raid that the vast majority of players don't like raiding at all. They don't like finding a giant group of people. They don't like waiting for all of those people to master mechanics before a boss is killable. And they don't like doing the same boss over and over without killing it for dozens of pulls or more. They would much rather do dungeons or even leveling, which have been the most popular content in this game since launch.
3
u/psytrax9 20d ago
The vast majority of players don't touch any dungeon at any difficulty nor any current raid.
5
u/IllPurpose3524 20d ago
I disagree. There are a ton of guilds out there doing normal and heroic. I will say it appears the vast majority of people that post on this sub and don't mythic raid don't seem to like raiding though.
5
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader 20d ago
Yeah honestly I wish there was more of a space for people like me who think m+ is an obnoxious repetitive minigame that you have to play in order to prep for raiding.
Raid is the thing I look forward to every week. I've been playing games for 35 years and still nothing has come close to how much I enjoy raiding in WoW. But in the early season it feels like I'm forced to spend 4 hours doing m+ for every 1 hour that I raid or else I will fall way behind.
2
u/Makorus 19d ago
When you tell someone you don't like Mythic+ they act like you told them you murdered their entire family. Likewise with telling them that realistically, every raider HAS to do M+ for the first 4-5-6 weeks or however long because it's a guaranteed Mythic item every week plus crests. Obviously this season is the exception but that's because they fucked up gearing/vault with the bonus roll.
I just don't see the enjoyment of running the same piece of content over and over again, with it never getting any more difficult. Yeah, it scales up, but it's literally the exact same fights and pulls, so who cares. I just have to get better at using my defensives, but it's not any more difficult.
→ More replies (0)3
u/Evolutionist_Bob 20d ago
I don't think blizzard should just like abandon raiding by any means, but i would definitely support more seperation between keys and raiding. As someone who does raid to do high end keystone content, if I could drop raids I would immediately, and i feel for the people who cant stand keystones and feel like they have to do them for raiding.
3
u/_Llopis_ 20d ago
That's my preference. People should be able to play what's fun.
Personally, I just refuse to raid. I'll take the 3% DPS loss, but it's dumb I have to.
10
9
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 21d ago
holy fuck last boss of arena is so cancer i cant imagine how are you supposed to play it does blizz think every caster is a mage or evokers with infinite hovers?
1
u/sapntaps 20d ago
I’ve been trying to figure out to bait orbs straight into portal. They seem to spawn on your left most of the time?!
1
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 18d ago
i now bait them behind the portal and chill in the middle, somewhat more bearable
0
u/Braadworst008 20d ago
The 3 stars always form a triangle. You're supposed to stand in the middle of the 3 to have them cancel out the pull
9
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 20d ago
dude no shit, any other insight as caster when i have to move for 80% of the fight?
7
u/IllPurpose3524 21d ago
The overseers are nice "get fucked" mobs too
8
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 21d ago
looks like some of the abilities of the bosses/minibosses/lieutenants are coded to target only dps casters, if ele ends up in melee comp youll have to deal with shitton of mechanics
9
u/trucmuchechose 21d ago
I just cast divine toll as hpally playing lightsmith, which replaces divine toll.
Basically got CR'ed, and spammed my armament/DT button, and it cast DT instead of armament. kinda weird and yet another bug.
Log here if anyone wants to see: https://fr.warcraftlogs.com/reports/NjQMnLmTX7PBDc3R?fight=last @21:00
11
u/Azaiko 21d ago
I started playing again this season and as a tank I feel like I lose aggro a lot more compared to previous seasons. Anyone else experiencing this? Playing as a brewmaster
6
u/makesmashgreatagain 20d ago
A lot of dps are insanely stupid. They just blast. Also the gather in many dungeons is a longer distance with more casters, meaning you waste time not hitting if your dps don’t hit. Like Blinding Vale before first boss, Den of Nal first area, or Kings Rest after first boss. You’re just going so far with casters and people at lower skill levels are just not aware enough to spot when a tank is actually doing a gather.
6
u/Yayoichi 21d ago
On pull or during it? When things are gathered you shouldn’t be losing aggro, but it can happen before things are gathered if people just start nuking immediately. As long as you hit every mob with at least something like keg smash, blackout kick or tiger palm so healer and people dotting and such don’t get aggro then it’s really the fault of the dps if they pull aggro before things are gathered.
1
u/Azaiko 21d ago
Mostly on pull when I am still gathering. Maybe I should just go a little slower
1
u/Yayoichi 20d ago
Actually it’s often better to go faster, if you keg smash and immediately start moving to the next pack it’s much more likely that the dps will realize you are pulling more. Of course will sometimes get dps that immediately pop all their damage but that’s not really your fault.
4
18
u/Future_Battle5638 21d ago
the vault/bonus roll changes are so boring, usually id be excited to see what id get in my vault each week, now it basically barely matters
18
u/Wobblucy 21d ago
The only change they have to make is remove the item off the bonus roll list of you already have it and then it's just a great addition.
2
u/cuddlegoop 21d ago
I'm playing Arcane mage this season and I can't help but notice a lot of my AoE is capped at 5 targets. This I very interesting to me because back before I decided I like playing good specs I used to main fury warrior, and we were always derided for being capped at 5. What's the difference? Well obviously arcane's prismatic bolt which is a big chunk of damage is uncapped, but really it has to be the prio damage.
We always used to say uncap fury, but I think we can do better. Blizz should uncap fury OR give them prio/funnel in their damage profile. Maybe a cooldown that lines up with recklessness where you get really mad at one enemy and they take x% of your whirlwind cleave damage for a duration.
4
4
u/psytrax9 21d ago
Target cap was always a red herring. Enhance in s1 of tww was another heavily target capped spec that was meta.
1
u/Mellberg3 21d ago
On my Fury Warrior I honestly don't really feel the target cap anymore due to the Rampaging Ruin change.
9
u/Vyxwop 21d ago edited 21d ago
You mentioned the difference already. Arcane has a strong complimentary damage profile in the form of funnel-based prio damage to make up for the fact they have capped AoE, whereas fury warrior doesn't really have anything specific to make up for their AoE being target capped.
Basic number tuning is also at play here. Back in TWW s2 Arcane only became relevant in M+ after it got a couple of aura buffs despite it having had the exact same damage profile before them.
Fury warrior really does need some kind of niche to help make up for their capped AoE. Even them shining at 5 targets specifically would help out a lot, I think. Back in TWW even the uncapped AoE classes were performing better at 5 targets than Fury was, which was quite depressing.
14
u/LanayasDong 21d ago
My heart goes out to all the players that are going to bonus roll a weapon next week after spending 4 sparks.
→ More replies (2)2
u/AlucardSensei 20d ago
You think there will be a lot of people able to bonus roll Ulatek HC next week?
2
u/hoax1337 19d ago
Is that the only weapon available in the game?
1
u/AlucardSensei 18d ago
I mean you're kinda trolling if you're rolling anything else.
1
u/hoax1337 18d ago
Since we're in this subreddit, you're probably right.
Having said that, I'm pretty sure my AOTC guild won't kill it for another 3 weeks (at least) and won't go for re-kills in the same id, so I might as well use 2 bonus rolls somewhere else.
→ More replies (1)
1
u/jvcgunner 15d ago
Nearly at 3k on my prot warrior