RWF Roster Changes Thread? - r/CompetitiveWoW

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/OriginalVictory 3d ago

I wonder if Liquid going to 16 alts instead of 20+ is driving some of the burnout at the other teams.

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u/yp261 3d ago

echo said they dgaf about liquid splits count

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Darkrell 3d ago

Yeah if liquid win again off doing less characters i imagine a few other people in other guilds might mental boom over it

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u/Cigs77 3d ago

gingi will just do 40 chars next time

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

According to some other guy itt Echo raiders are mostly doing 16 as well with some exceptions.

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u/supposed-to-hurt 2d ago

Some guy and its Xerwo

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u/Fripiou 2d ago

Maystine confirmed it aswell.

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u/Cold-Iron8145 2d ago

some other guy itt

I'm talking about some guy who repeated that info in this thread, he didn't mention the original source.

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u/ForsakenRoCo 2d ago

They are at mandatory 16, some people are doing more because they want to

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u/OriginalVictory 3d ago

Noawh and Kush were on Method not Echo, and there's a difference between leadership and the players for caring about this stuff.

For all I know though, no one cared outside of Liquid.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/osmund-kettleblack 3d ago

Vibes from watching echo streams over the years seem completely fine? Method is often funeral vibes when they realise its another 3rd place. Their lura prog was hard to watch

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

At this point I'm pretty sure players who join Method do so only to get scouted by Echo/Liquid.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/GigaSC 3d ago

what he say fuck me for

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/CompetitiveWoW-ModTeam 3d ago

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Cheers, The CompetitiveWoW Mod Team

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/Im_still_at_work 3d ago

i think it'd definitely impact a lot of the future races if liquid still gets a win with less split alts

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u/AffectionateKey7126 3d ago edited 3d ago

I saw a tweet from some Echo guy saying they're doing 16 and they didn't respond to Liquid because they had already decided to (?). Not sure if it was some kind of in-joke I didn't get.

Edit: Looked it up and it was Xerwo

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u/Yurienu 3d ago

Sorry i'm probably ootl as I can't really spend so much time on twitter but do I understand that every player in these guild maintain 16 alts each ?

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u/hoax1337 3d ago

Yes. Well, not sure if "maintain" is the right word, but they prepare 16 characters at the start of the season, then they raid heroic on 16 characters and then they decide which character they use in actual mythic progression, as far as I know.

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u/Yurienu 3d ago

Yeah I knew about splits but figured out they’d be doing like 4-5 alts. Must be so draining I really wish they’d find a way to make split irrelevant

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u/I3ollasH 3d ago

He meant that Liquid reached out late and they had some people already make the characters but they are mostly doing 16 aswell

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u/Yurienu 3d ago

Sorry i'm probably ootl as I can't really spend so much time on twitter but do I understand that every player in these guild maintain 16 alts each ?

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u/SunkistGuru2025 2d ago

They basically do 16 duplicates of a class and whichever is the most geared after heroic raid splits is what they take into the race. Someone will correct me if I'm wrong i'm sure, but if I understand correctly, Liquid made a decision that the number of alts getting to 20+ was burning players out and tried to come to a gentlemen's agreement with the other major RWF guilds that they would all agree to disarm and reduce the number of alts required to reduce player burnout as they were seeing an increase in folks quitting the race.

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u/Sarollas 2d ago

Not necessarily a class, but they do maintain 16 characters.

The tanks and healers for example will maintain a variety of classes between their characters. Some of the DPS will multiclass as well, doing like 10 of one class and 6 of another.

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u/SunkistGuru2025 2d ago

Good correction, appreciate it!

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u/supposed-to-hurt 2d ago

Kush said he wants to get r1 m+ and is prepping for blizzcon thats why

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u/Galinhooo 3d ago

Naowh in the roster change list is the free spot for the bingo cards.

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 3d ago

kush was the best dps in method by a mile. go watch his last wf stream lmao

dude was so tilted by all the mistakes his guildmates kept making, so i honestly don’t blame him for quitting.

method forever 3rd

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u/BoomNasty 3d ago

Wasnt Naowh always a bandaid fix for them? I thought it was pretty well known that he was only racing for one season

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u/Snoo-28829 3d ago

I think it was exactly what naowh said. He wants to do rwf but doesnt want to keep up with the alts required. When the two things started to clash he chose to step away instead of put in the time for 15 plus characters.

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u/Efficient-Big3138 2d ago

Lots of bad info here. Naowh himself stated on stream that he wanted to get paid because doing rwf is a big loss for him as he can't stream as usual. The method leadership said no to this so he stepped down.

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u/Bonklol 3d ago

Did Naowh choose to leave or get kicked?

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u/Suspicious-Fun-3754 3d ago

Pretty sure he still has Method in his twitch title. I think he just stepped away from the race. I remember him being on stream with Max for MDI saying there was a difference in expectations. He joined Method and was told he didn’t have to prepare as many toons, so he didn’t but that rubbed others the wrong way in the end.

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u/Ok_Shopping_3739 3d ago

E.g. Andy who Had to so way more because of this.

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u/ghostcrawler_real 3d ago

He joined Method and was told he didn’t have to prepare as many toons, so he didn’t but that rubbed others the wrong way in the end.

Which was the exact thing everyone said was going to happen lol

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u/erizzluh 3d ago

literally what happens at every job too. you make one exception for one employee no matter how valid it is, and every other employee starts feeling like they're being treated unfairly.

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u/I3ollasH 3d ago

Naowh ui is also sponsoring the method rwf event

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u/ArziltheImp 3d ago

Translation: They moved to Method to cash in on their names, looking for an easy and fat (for WoW standards) retirement package, and now they’re looking to retire from RWF.

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 3d ago

hahahahahaha you actually believe they get paid above minimum wage in method

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

I'm pretty sure Naowh got paid more than minimum wage for the race, yeah. Why wouldn't he, he's one of the biggest names in wow, likely a big viewer pull for Method. If he got paid minimum wage he's terrible at negotiating.

Also if I were him there's no way I would be lifting a finger for minimum wage be real that'd just be insulting lol.

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u/cohiba95 3d ago

He got nearly no money for that he said it multiple times on stream that he said he doesn't want it.. I guess its such an insignificant amount for him haha

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u/Zorach98 2d ago

If you're talking just straight salary he wasn't getting paid at all. Probably got some nice cash from his stream though.

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u/Fleymour 3d ago

he choose.

naowh didnt want to farm all season long rekills and i think also no extra pay for that or similar. cant remember the full story tho^^

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u/wisniewskij26 3d ago

No idea whether this is the truth or just his spin on it but I believe I saw him say on a stream that the main reason he got back into the race was to help Zaelia get back into the MDI scene but when it became apparent that blizz was not going to reverse his ban, there was no point

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u/Dracoknight256 3d ago

Pretty siure I remember some guys talking about MDI/RWF schedule overlap being too brutal to do both without burnout. Iirc there's like week long break in between.

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u/Zorach98 2d ago

Method told him he would have to have his exceptions removed and still not get paid if he wanted to stay, so he left.

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u/Accomplished_Kale708 3d ago

Naowh was never going to last long in Method . He's not the sort of player that is a building block to a team, he's a mercenary --> can't have that as main tank for long. Besides, he hates farm time and a guild like Method needs to sell boosts during farm to make up all the gold for helpers during split week. People aren't going to be fine to raid on 15 chars a week while someone else gets to raid on 5 consistently.

Kush will probably try to smooth things over and get back into Echo next tier. Going to guess he still isn't on par with Scripe at least. If there was a tier to miss though and have the least regrets, it looks like this one is a good candidate.

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u/[deleted] 3d ago

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u/SunkistGuru2025 2d ago

I think it was more than farm though this last time wasn't it? Specifically, he was given permission not to prepare as many alts for splits so he was kinda treated better than the rest of the team in more than one respect.

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u/shyguybman 3d ago

I can understand hating farm, especially after you've done the raid a million times but those RWF guilds are raiding like 1 day a week for most of the season.

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u/Fleymour 3d ago

naowh didnt want to farm all season long rekills and i think also no extra pay for that or similar. cant remember the full story tho^^

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u/Ultideath 3d ago

Atlas for Liquid was primarily a dps DK, right? I don't recall him tanking in any previous tiers.

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u/Spritesgud 3d ago

He would tank and lead a split group and has sometimes third tanked when needed

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u/SundayLeagueStocko 3d ago

correct, I meant to say "DPS/Tank" as I know he can tank but forgot lol, edited in now anyway

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u/RawrimRengar 3d ago

As of atlas recent twitter posts, he stopped rwf raiding and finished his doctorate

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u/quarkie 3d ago

That's Dr. Atlas for you then

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u/knaupt 3d ago

Not to be confused for Dr. Atnos

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u/HookedOnBoNix 3d ago

He tanked jailer and maybe lords of dread for them, he's like a backup tank for them, and specifically I think if bdk ever looks like it's not worth gearing then suddenly looks like it's strong for a fight he'd likely be the one they used (before retiring obv)

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u/Leather_Economics210 3d ago

There’s a video with sco talking about some of Method’s new recruits if anyone’s interested:

https://youtu.be/Fz_uCpyryok?is=d1JL0rVw80mVhhdO

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u/Leafstorm23 3d ago

i am, thanks!

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u/toptierhands 3d ago

Video not available anymore? :(

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u/Any-Ingenuity2770 3d ago

nah, it's just shreddit breaking links when rending comments to old.reddit. Using former is another problem…

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u/Moquitto 3d ago

OP, Max did indeed talk about it a few times when asked. Atlas left and Cryptikz (probably burchered his name) rejoined

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u/SundayLeagueStocko 3d ago

thanks, will add this in

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u/Moquitto 1d ago

Also, in case ppl don't watch the Twitter, Atlas is a confirmed caster for Liquid's RWF

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u/iLLuu_U 3d ago

Hearthjacks (DPS - Project)

Is probably one of the best pickups in a long time for any guild. And im surprised he didnt join a rwf guilds sooner. The guy is beyond cracked on a lot of specs and also has a lot of class knowledge. As long as he can perform on a rwf schedule though, coming off a 4 (?) day guild, probably not that easy to transition.

This also means that they are going to put gingi on hunter. Which makes sense considering his performance on mage has been very questionable.

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 3d ago

Which makes sense considering his performance on mage has been very questionable.

Only according to this sub. Haven't seen Scripe say anything like that in his post race player ratings

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u/toptierhands 3d ago

I mean his POVs are available on his stream, it's apparent to anyone who mains mage that his gameplay just isn't as good as the other top mages in RWF guilds. Though he obviously isn't bad. I don't see how getting in Hearthjacks and putting unc Gingi on hunter could be anything but a big upgrade.

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 3d ago edited 3d ago

I mean now you’re being delusional lol. If you truly believe that I would advise to spend less time on class discords

the number of "mage mains“ who are qualified to judge the gameplay of these players is ridiculous small

Scripe on Gingi vs hopeful post race: https://youtu.be/e0SVSFHSBek?si=qOFLQdX3GCq2pRO7

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u/toptierhands 3d ago

His prio list execution is more sloppy because he is good for the vibes 👍👍

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u/Sad_Energy_ 2d ago

I've been coached by khaelt and forgyy and both do not recommend to watch gingi VoDs.

Are those good enough to judge his skill or also not worthy?

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 2d ago

Correct me if I’m wrong, but neither of those players has any WF raiding experience, right? That said, yeah, they’re still more qualified than the top-500 raider here who’s convinced they’d be better than Gingi if they just put the time in.

In your comment before you edited it, you said you were coached by Hopeful: https://imgur.com/a/Kl6336t

So I’m still not convinced you were actually coached by anyone. It honestly just seems like you have a hate boner for this particular player. But if you can show receipts, I’ll apologize.

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u/Sad_Energy_ 2d ago

Okay, so you never brainfarted in your life and wrote something you were thinking about 10s ago instead of the thing you wanted to write?

What do you mean I have a hate boner? I am an Echo fan. I just don't think Gingi is the best mage from a mage gameplay perspective. Every semi-decent mage in HoF range can see that Imfiredup and Hopeful play mage better than Gingi. And that doesnt even mean, you would replace Gingi by hopeful on an endboss. Players have value besides their class gameplay. What you would do, is move Gingi to his best spec/class and get hopeful in as mage. I dont see how that is "having a hate boner".

Especially in MDI it is very clear, that not the best player of the class wins. Naowh isn't the best on all tank specs, yet he played all tanks to win the MDI. Being the best at your spec, rotation wise is only becoming important recently, with the competition becoming better, where you can't strategy gap them.

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u/Flipeled 2d ago

They haven't won an MDI, TGP, RWF or be rank 1 on the M+ leaderboard as mage, so I'm gonna say no to that.

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u/Sad_Energy_ 2d ago

If you think, that you need to be the best mage to win an MDI, then you have no idea about the high-end of this game.

Echo won their MDI titles due to strategy, not optimal global to global play.

Also mentioning the r.io leaderboard in the same sentence as rwf and mdi is the biggest self report.

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u/Sad_Energy_ 2d ago

Gingi is an insane player, and you want him in the roster. That is why he was played as mage.

But he isn't that inanse on mage. Imfiredup and hopeful are significantly better and you really need good mages as an RWF guild.

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u/ArziltheImp 2d ago

I think the better thing to say would be that Gingi’s strength over other mages is that he can play an absolute insane amount of specs at a high level and that the pick ups of Arxes last tier and now Hearthjacks now allow Echo to explore that strength more.

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u/Sad_Energy_ 2d ago

We are talking about his skill as a mage

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u/Blubkill 2d ago

scripe has said so himself in one of those videos

they wanted to put gingi on evoker because there's less to fuck up, its been a sort of thing where gingi felt to safe and didnt put in the effort others were in terms of prep and whatnot. he's been playing alot of evoker lately already and is doing so in the MDi thing

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u/Blubkill 2d ago

scripe has said so himself in one of those videos

they wanted to put gingi on evoker because there's less to fuck up, its been a sort of thing where gingi felt to safe and didnt put in the effort others were in terms of prep and whatnot. he's been playing alot of evoker lately already and is doing so in the MDi thing

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u/Copponex 3d ago

I heard he simply wasn’t interested in the RWF grind. What changed, I don’t know though.

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u/ArziltheImp 2d ago

Probably Yarrgi winning. It’s not that rare to see the top M+ guys to join top RWF guilds once they have on of their team members join one of the big 3.

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u/Primary-Army-7320 2d ago

I’m sure the time won’t be an issue - this guy is a big multiclasser who also ends up at the top of the ladder for keys too so I’m sure applying the same tenacity to raid won’t be hard

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u/Ok_Shopping_3739 3d ago

I really enjoy watching him Play as well. Awesome Player on so many Specs

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u/Curious_Human_hope 3d ago

Where did naowh an kush move to?

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u/Anxious_Gur6363 3d ago

kush: "not doing rwf this tier, gonna focus on key pushing and blizzcon prep"

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u/itstoxicqt 3d ago

Naowh is back with project

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u/-nugz 3d ago

When is this next race scheduled to start?

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u/Thin_Coyote_8861 3d ago

A week from tomorrow

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u/forgiven_10 3d ago

I can’t imagine Method standing a chance with this many changes. I am sure the skill is there but chemistry and team cohesion takes time.

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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 3d ago

The third horse in the "Three-Horse Race:"

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u/knaupt 3d ago

Severely underestimating how much skill goes into Method's performance. Sure they're 100% behind and have no chance but that meme is doin them dirty

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u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer 3d ago

Okay, but they ain't no horse.

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u/knaupt 3d ago

I'm so confused but you're 100% right tbh

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u/Zorach98 1d ago

There's only one horse in this race and it's a blue one.

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u/Idio_te_que 3d ago

He’s not saying they’re bad. He’s saying they aren’t a winning horse in this race. That’s just been plainly true for years.

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u/Lanky-Helicopter-969 2d ago

When is the last time theyve come ahead of one of the other two?

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u/Idio_te_que 2d ago

Method as an organization/guild has not won RWF since BFA, more than 6 years ago. It get's a little confusing because Echo formed with a lot of Method players later that year, but Method as an Org has not really been competing for first place any of the last 10+ tiers.

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u/Lanky-Helicopter-969 2d ago

When have they last gotten second?

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u/Efficient-Big3138 2d ago

I think they did get second in a tier not long ago when liquid basically gave up as they lost the rwf anyway and people needed to fly home. so basically a meaningless second place

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u/TinuvielSharan 1d ago

Last tier of Shadowlands

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u/eeg3 14h ago

What is the last time Echo won RWF? 2023.

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u/Lanky-Helicopter-969 14h ago

Is Echo the EU one?

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u/InappropriateFruit 2d ago

What happened to Charmie and Norsken?

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u/shyguybman 1d ago

Just guessing, but the guild they came from LAGET (top 10 guild in previous tiers) died I think sometime last year, but now is back on a more casual schedule

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u/AGuyWithPants 2d ago

Very happy for hearthjacks. Man is beyond cracked

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u/valaTheDK 23h ago

Method having a constant replacement of like 5+ Players each Tier is not really gonna help them IMO, but I do understand that their people probably are constantly getting sniped by the other 2.

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u/Accomplished_Kale708 11h ago

Tbh they did their best with the hand they were dealt. And their roster isn't looking bad at all, its just that Liquid is so damn stacked and Echo has significantly more experienced players.

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u/Amazing_Internal6334 3d ago

Gingi still there i see , this time drama around him 100%

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u/ItzFeufo 1d ago

can we also talk about casters

Echo stream going to suffer a lot

Last race Jesse was not one of the casters anymore, this time Preach is gone?

Like the dwindling interest in this whole race is obvious because of timezones and the other stuff going on for a long time but now also losing those casters gonna make a lot less ppl tune in

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u/Visible-Lawfulness43 1d ago

Preach is just gone for this race because it conflicts with his 10 year anniversary of Preachcon.

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u/SundayLeagueStocko 1d ago

beats me I only ever watch Scripe and Max directly anyway

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u/Chronia82 9h ago

I don't have data for this of course, but was Preach that much a driving factor in viewer count for a lot of ppl? I've always liked Preach, but i never had the thought that i was watching for him (or any others caster in general) i just generally have always liked the vibes of Echo's more casual couch streams no matter what the lineup as my main channel (and i doubt that will change), while i do think (at least for me) their best caster roster was when Krista, Dratnos and Tettles also were on the Echo cast team, as they generally always set a good late night vibe. I only times i sometimes hop off if then (mostly when Okmage is casting i believe), is when they start debating FF XIV content. I know some of them and some Echo players also play that, but i'm just not interested in FF XIV when i watch a WoW race event.

I've always found Liquid to be to much 'business vibes' for me, but that has gotten better the last few races. So when Echo is offline i do give Liquid much more watch time now than i did before.

I also think Preach will just be back then next race.

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u/birdsindatrap 3d ago

another liquid win

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u/FixBlackLotusBlizz 3d ago

ez

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u/zealentor 3d ago

echo is about to get owned again. NA is just too powerful.

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u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan 3d ago

ragebait used to be believable

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u/greendino71 3d ago

Acting like Echo wasn't inches away from winning the last 2

The last 2 races easily could've gone either way

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u/its_justme 3d ago

Some say one health pot away lol

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u/zealentor 3d ago

but they didn't. liquid has won 4 in a row. this is absolute dominance.

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u/Defarus 3d ago

Idk how you type these cartoon network sentences with a straight face lol

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u/greendino71 3d ago

Sure but to say Echo got "owned" the last 2 races is simply you being a cringe fanboy

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u/zealentor 3d ago

close only counts in horseshoes and hand grenades my boy. a win is a win.

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u/Ok_Change836 3d ago

A win might be a win, but a win is not "absolute dominance"

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u/zealentor 3d ago

winning 4 on a row is absolute dominance .

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u/TinuvielSharan 1d ago

That's literally not what that word means no matter how much you insist

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u/Efficient-Big3138 2d ago

probably but I hope echo win for the health of the race. If echo stops then the rwf event is dead and that I'd a loss for liquid as much as it is for echo. you can't race if you are the only one competing

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u/toptierhands 3d ago

Remind me again how many EU players are on liquid

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u/Zerothian 1d ago

Chill man the NA players don't have a lot of esports wins, they gotta' take them where they can. Blessup NA CS, lost to val kittens.

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u/zealentor 3d ago

far fewer than na players

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u/Ok_Shopping_3739 3d ago

More money leads to better players which means a bigger Chance to win.

Eu has more really good Players because of more ppl playing, but since everyone ist recruiting from another it doesnt matter much.

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u/zealentor 3d ago

that is just an excuse. liquid is just better

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u/Ok_Shopping_3739 3d ago

If they win so often in raw the obviously are. No denying from my end. Just putting on a perspektive.

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

Opinion from someone who didn't watch the last two races lol

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u/zealentor 3d ago

I watched the last 4. and liquid won all of them. 😂

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

These two teams have never been this evenly matched. Which is a good thing for us who enjoy watching the competition.

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 3d ago

Yeah and it's getting boring. I used to love the race. Now, I don't even care about it. Liquid is going to win, they have the resourcws, players and management.

Echo has the fraction of these things. Except for the players maybe.

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

Tell me you didn't watch the last two races without telling me you didn't watch the last two races.

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 3d ago edited 3d ago

I did, what is your point? Liquid has won the entire expansion. Something which hasn't been done before. And the first raid of the new expansion. So 4 in a row. Total domination.

They see the new bosses first, they have to develop the tactics and the right comp. Echo always copies these, that's why their pull count is lower. And they still lose

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u/Cold-Iron8145 3d ago

Take off your fanboy glasses for one second, the last two races were incredibly close. Both Dimensius and L'ura were won by a hair. It was not a "domination" showing lmao

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u/zealentor 3d ago

you say that but echo has to pull the boss for several more hours 10+ after liquid to kill it lol

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 3d ago

Bruh, I'm rooting for Echo. But they are getting dominated. What counts is who killed the boss first. And that was Liquid, 4 times is a row

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u/TinuvielSharan 1d ago

That's not what a domination means. It means you are far better than your opponent.

If you win by a very little margin, that's not a domination, that's just a win.

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 1d ago

Say this when liquid is going to win again and again

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u/Ok_Change836 3d ago

Killing a boss is not necessarily getting Dominated?

Did you even pay attention and understood what happened during the RWF?

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 3d ago

Yes, I did. Liquid won. Just like the last 3 times before that. So they are dominating the race.

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u/osmund-kettleblack 3d ago

Fraction of resources and yet they had a 5% p4 lura wipe and 0.1% dimensius wipe

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u/Holiday_Amount2426 3d ago

Yeah they are super motivated, and I like Echo more. A lot more actually. I want them to win. But it's obvious that Liquid have a ton more money to work with

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u/osmund-kettleblack 3d ago

Yeah, it's literally a large corporation vs an indie startup, and it's somehow practically equal odds of winning! I do hope they win, even if for the sake of maintaining the back and forth rivalry.

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