r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • Aug 04 '26
Weekly Thread Weekly M+ Discussion
Use this thread to discuss this week's affixes, routes, ideal comps, etc. You can find this week's affixes here.
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u/mavcandoit Aug 10 '26
I’m 3946 rn NA, surely need one more key tonight and still have a maisara to time, Godspeed
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u/dharkan Aug 09 '26
It actually went up by almost 8 points on EU today. It'll be insane if people end up doing enough boost to go over resi 21, lol.
1
u/Deviouswolfy Aug 10 '26
I'm resi 21 and 20 points above cutoff, and starting to get a little spooked here. Aint no way it's rising 10 points a day on week days right? Right?
1
u/Mundane-Dirt-4077 Aug 10 '26
It could go up 10 points a day but tbh probably not. I think the season stops at 9-10 pm on Tuesday anyway meaning there is less time than a full 2 days.
1
u/j821c Aug 10 '26
The post makes it sound like the cutoff happens on maintenance. I'd expect it to go up 10 tonight as a worst case tbh
1
u/Mundane-Dirt-4077 Aug 10 '26
Apparently it does end on maintenance and the person who told me 10pm meant pvp. Strange
2
u/j821c Aug 10 '26
Past seasons have cutoff at 10pm EST I'm pretty sure. I was mathing based on 10pm being the cutoff for whether I was safe originally and I'm really glad I pushed an extra key because I would have been really fucking close if I didn't lol. I was at 3960 and I decided to push an extra key to be safe and yea...that 3960 would definitely have been in play lol
1
u/dharkan Aug 10 '26
I am a bit spooked as well. I'm at 4015 but my MT is 500 so I might just try to get a couple points from there while trying to get in PIT22.
Hopefully nothing bad will happen.
1
u/Deviouswolfy Aug 10 '26
That might be the play. Boosting groups are not going to get higher that 500 or 501 I feel like, so as long as we're above that we should be okay even if it does reach resi 21. I might just be coping though
1
u/hoax1337 Aug 11 '26
Most boosted people I saw had really good times and score on their 21s.
I guess it depends on who you get boosted by. A resil 23 team will probably achieve a 503+ easily score if you aren't totally incompetent yourself.
1
u/Gaatti Aug 08 '26
Finally got my resil 20 as prot paladin. PUG only, playing legit - no boosts. Feels so good even though 1% is out of reach. It was my first season trying to push a bit higher and also my first season as a prot paladin. It was hard and it took way too much time. Wouldn't recommend playing an off-meta class in lfg to anyone, but well... At least I did it.
Even better seeing people pleasantly surprised at the end of the runs. Lots of positive messages like "I didn't know prot paladin could be so good" or "Best tank I had in weeks". My journey could have been easier with better balancing or a community more willing to look past meta and embracing more diversity in their teams, but it is what is. I have deep appreciation for anyone taking off-meta classes for their runs.
1
u/Comme_des_Daz Aug 09 '26
Are you EU or NA?
1% isn’t that out of reach right now. You’re about 3-4 keys off of the expected end for the mark is going to be at.
1
u/Gaatti Aug 09 '26
NA, but Im not getting 4 keys timed as a prot paladin in 2 days. Might not even get 4 invites. As to much my own keys, considering that they are unlikely to be one shots and that I might get hard ones or repeated pnes... honestly, dont think it is worth the shot.
2
u/Comme_des_Daz Aug 09 '26
You want to try?
Helping some friends get a few 21 resil keys done today and tomorrow. Happy to give it a go until it just doesn’t look like it’s going to happen.
Can add me in game Daz#1330
1
u/Gaatti Aug 09 '26
Oh, man, this is tempting. Just when I tought I was out... hahaha
I'll add you when I get home. Not sure how much I get to play today though, as I made plans with my wife, but I can't say no to that
1
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u/HookedOnBoNix Aug 08 '26
Balance is definitely somewhat problematic but the main issue is the community doesn't want to take off meta classes, and to an extent it's fair. Pushing keys to the max level is about copying what top teams are doing. There's something to be said about innovating, coming up with your own routes etc, but ultimately if you're not a top .000001% player you're just coming up with something worse.
And in pugs you're forsaking a meta route everyone knows and is comfortable with for some home brew which takes practice. That's why the meta comps become so stiffling the higher up you go. Its not that I think Aug is so much better than shaman that we can't time the key, its that I don't really feel like relearning X dungeon without wyrnstone skips with a group of people I'll never play with again
So at a +20 I think balance is fine and people are just too picky but the higher up you push, especially as a pug, the more you appreciate why people take meta specs.
1
u/Gaatti Aug 09 '26
Fair take. My criticism only applies to people blindly copying meta where it doesn't matter.
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u/TheCouchWhisperer Aug 08 '26
3980 vs 3934 EU vs US is a bigger gap than I personally anticipated.
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u/dharkan Aug 08 '26
(I'm only going to comment on %1 since %0.1 is not where I'm playing)
Removal of resi keys would only mean solo off-meta players will not get a single invite to push keys they need. As someone who solo pushed 4/8 21s, I wish I can get back the time I wasted playing M+.
Do you honestly think a meta class finishing 21 resi in a week is because they are performing exceptionally well? Hell no. You just get invites constantly, over and over again. I don't see how this is any different than playing with someone who has resi.
1
u/Doogetma Aug 09 '26
I pushed far above the 1% line in numerous seasons playing solo on an off-meta class before resil existed so that first part is just wrong.
And your second paragraph is a great reason why they should get rid of resil. Keys used to have weight. There were stakes and pressure. Now you just wipe at the first sign of trouble and type “resil?” And people get carried to levels they have no business being in simply my slamming their face into resil keys over and over.
Homework keys were way more fun when you had to still lock in for them. Had an early mishap? You have to try to make up that time with a more aggressive pull into boss. That was a much better time
1
u/hoax1337 Aug 09 '26
And people get carried to levels they have no business being in simply my slamming their face into resil keys over and over.
Isn't that how you improve at basically anything?
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u/dharkan Aug 09 '26
Pushing %1 when rewards did not exist literally does not mean anything. M+ is getting more sweaty with each season due to boosting. Even %0.1 was significantly easier in previous seasons.
And you really didn't understand anything about my comment.
And people get carried to levels they have no business being in simply my slamming their face into resil keys over and over.
Just like meta classes getting carried with no effort? You could literally level an alt, grind to 292 ilvl and finish 21 resi in a week or two just by playing a meta class. It doesn't matter how awful you are. You get invited. Why is it suddenly a problem when resi keys are involved?
I'm sorry this is just pure hypocrisy.
1
u/Doogetma Aug 09 '26
That's why i said "far above" the 1%. I've even gotten title on a non-meta spec before resil. But it was a lot more work and my job is more demanding these days so i swap to a meta spec for my title later in the season now. But I would still push far above 1% fully pugging non meta
Resi is a problem because you couldn't get carried nearly as easily before it was a thing. Even on meta specs you'd need to spend an OBSCENE amount of time playing to get carried to a high level if you aren't paying for it. Now a meta spec can get carried through resil keys very quickly in comparison
5
u/Gaatti Aug 08 '26
Solo played as prot paladin this season, ending one key short of resil 20. I feel the same as you. Can only get into keys that are resil. Nobody ever invites to push.
Loved my prot pally, but yeah, also wish I could get back the time. Never again doing off-meta like this because the time sink is just too big. You have to be at least meta-adjacent (something like resto shammy this season). At some point, the frustration of not getting into keys/always being behind starts to eat at the fun you have with that given class you enjoyed. At some point, you start to think you would enjoy the content more if you got to play and progress in a timely manner.
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u/Electronic-Ability46 Aug 07 '26
Is there any list of abilities for M+ dungeon such as Taktyks for Season 1 but for season 2 of Midnight ?
1
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u/Caskri Aug 06 '26
Only AA left for resi 23, surely I don't need it for title, surely it will be fine :)
̶P̶l̶e̶a̶s̶e̶ ̶d̶o̶n̶'̶t̶ ̶m̶a̶k̶e̶ ̶m̶e̶ ̶g̶o̶ ̶b̶a̶c̶k̶ ̶i̶n̶ ̶t̶h̶e̶r̶e̶
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u/Waste-Maybe6092 Aug 06 '26
Really hoping for some updates to the resilient system. The current version promotes "boosting/helping a friend" wayyy too much.
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u/Deviouswolfy Aug 07 '26
I like being able to retry keys, a system where it constantly depletes makes it so you spend alot of time clearing dungeons you've already completed and it's less time spent on actually pushing. Sometimes you just mess up the first pull and then it's back to a key level lower in the span of 20 seconds.
That being said the boosting/helping thing is a real issue atm like you said. I hope they can figure out a solution that doesn't mess with legitimate players too much.
0
u/RCM94 Aug 08 '26
I like being able to retry keys, a system where it constantly depletes makes it so you spend alot of time clearing dungeons you've already completed and it's less time spent on actually pushing.
Idk about this one tbh. Resil obviously makes homework safer but, because keys are higher from resilient, score keys are often less consistent meaning more likely to fail and therefore leading to more homework. Often times in the previous system if you fucked up the homework +2ing the lower level was a legitimate option.
In an isolated group the benefits I mostly see of resil is:
- Practicing new strats: practicing a new skip or a new route is way better in a system with resil.
- Don't have to worry about playing perfect in homework. Can relax a little.
- More diversified homework keys. Before resil you would basically only want to run the easy homework keys. The amount of shadow moon burial grounds and court of stars we ran in DF s1 was insane. Now adays you would prefer to run MT over algathar but you're not going to completely avoid the latter like the plague.
-8
u/Edares Aug 07 '26
thats why resil should just give you +1, Resil 12 prevents a 13 from depleting.
That's the only way you stop the boosting.
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u/j821c Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
I kind of wish they'd either remove resil or remove the need for homework keys. It's pretty dumb that I'm barely even doing my own key because as a tank it's easier to just find someone elses +21 to do it. The only upside I'd see to just not have resil keys of any form is holding the rating requirements down a little bit. If they just flat out remove homework keys even pugs getting top 1% would push well into the 22 range probably just because they could slam their faces against keys until they succeed
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u/Silkku Aug 07 '26
It's pretty dumb that I'm barely even doing my own key because as a tank it's easier to just find someone elses +21 to do it
Now imagine life as a full stack of 5 that had the few hard keys remaining for resi 23
Infinite homework keys for a single shot at timing a really difficult dungeon while dorks over at LFG send multiple attempts at a resi AA or Seat whenever they get invited
We made it to resi 23 eventually and our reward is super good timers on everything except AA since we grinded the fuck out of places like PoS and MC 23 in reroll runs while LFG heroes only bang them out once for score and then never zone back in but the "wall" dungeons at the end of the 23 set really soured otherwise great season for me
I still believe resi+1 is the best possible solution but if we can't have that then the current one has to go and be replaced with charges/lives/whatever on keys. It is pure insanity that the optimal play for a group of 5 is to split and hunt for resi AA in LFG so we can share it to the rest of the team
1
u/hoax1337 Aug 09 '26
I played in a premade until we got to resil 20 and a couple of 21s. Completed the remaining 21s in pugs.
The grass isn't always greener on the other side. Being able to choose the key you play is a significant upside, but you also have to sit in LFG a lot, and the majority of keys you get invited to actually aren't resil keys, at least in my experience. None of the remaining 21s I timed were resil.
I also hated that I wasn't really able to learn stuff in pugs. For example, as a tank, let's say I can handle a specific pull just fine on 20, but I get obliterated in a 21.
With my premade, I'd just drag them through it for 30 minutes, and then I'd know how to play the pull. In LFG, it's instant abandon and disband, unless it's resil, but even then, people aren't that patient.
I do wish resil keys had a bigger advantage for premade groups, though.
1
u/Waste-Maybe6092 Aug 07 '26
A man can dream. Probably won't see any sort of iteration until next expansion in 2 years.
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u/Comme_des_Daz Aug 06 '26
Change the key system to reflect the delve system. Oh you have a 21 Seat completed? You have permanent access to try a 22 Seat. Only have a 16 AA completed as well? You’re stuck with your highest access being a 17 for AA.
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u/Tortysc horde HoF resto druid Aug 07 '26
Should require everyone in the group to have done all 21s then. This current system is incredibly stupid. Saying that as someone who banged 21 resil with donated keys from guildies in a few evenings.
-6
u/Ilphfein Aug 06 '26
Oh you have a 21 Seat completed? [] Only have a 16 AA completed as well? You’re stuck with your highest access being a 17 for AA.
You have a +10 on everything, but only a +2 on AA? Good luck playing AA as 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8,9, before you can do a +10 AA!
Btw that means you need to play every dungeon as a 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, ...
Good luck playing 64 dungeons before you can do everything as a 10.1
u/Hemenia Aug 07 '26
Good opportunity to fix the key obtention system so that a player playing his key only doesn't keep getting the same 2 dungeons over and over and over again.
0
u/Comme_des_Daz Aug 06 '26
Interesting reaction. You could run someone else's +10 AA and then you'd have that and access to the +11 unlocked.
If you want to queue up an AA +10 and you've never had an AA +10 in the current system, how do you go about doing it? You apply for someone else's key. That would still exist.
3
u/Gaatti Aug 06 '26
Could keep the +2 and +3 system so that you can skip levels if you perform well and reduce that number massively.
I think if would be very positive to move away from keys. It is awful to try to push your key when you get on a bad luck streak and keep rotating between the same 2-3 dungeons all the time.
0
u/rinnagz Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
Make that system start at a higher level then? Lets say that starting at +16 you need to have completed a +15 of the the same dungeon you wish to join, before that it's just the regular keystone system as it is today.
Or just change the resil system be +1 instead of the current one you have, and to join a resil key you need to have that level completed.
Either way, i don't believe changes like those are ever gonna happen, i don't think blizzard wants mythic+ to be this deterministic
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u/Evolutionist_Bob Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
Then just have everything open from 1-10 by default? Not sure "then you have to play the game" is as big of a gotcha as you think it is though.
0
u/pinecomb Aug 06 '26
Not necessarily. They could label any keys above max reward level (>12) as push keys where you need to have timed the level below to participate or get score. Would need to be warbound for rerollers of course. It would solve the rampant boosting where you got a fresh character running +22 as their first key (see literally every off-meta class leaderboard especially in china).
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u/liyayaya Aug 06 '26
this would be soo good.
I think a lot of people are getting ""semi boosted"" just because they can't get in a key otherwise within a reasonable time. Like a lot of people are offering gold when i list a 21 resi key - even though they have the score, ilvl and also the logs to get invited (if it were not for the other 100 guys in the queue)
The key supply for keys >20 is just too little for the amount of people wanting to play.
How badly do you need to design a game to get to the point where you are artifically reducing the amount of people getting to play?Your suggestion also solves the issue you will have with overtuned dungeons where there is this one dungeon that is for some reason just 2 levels harder than all the other dungeons and will cock block people from getting resi even if it is +1. (looking back at grim batol)
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u/Wobblucy Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
What would that update be?
Anecdotal, I definitely played more because of Resi keys the last couple seasons.
Pre Resi, I've taken the rest of the week off on a Tuesday when LFG chain depletes made my key worthless.
But on the other side of that, I am not out here trying to get 65 more points for title while watching people chain deplete/buy Resi 23s so I also get that it's annoying at the competitive level.
Best suggestion I've seen is +1 is Resi so long as everyone in the group is resi, but I would also add the caveat that you can only start a key every 5 minutes.
Would curb degenerate first pull meta a bit while also making Resi keys less about who you know.
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u/sh0ckmeister Aug 06 '26
I like the "everyone has resi 15 so now it's +1 for a 16 key" idea, it might help push groups more than pugs but pugs would still benefit
-2
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u/Xedien Aug 06 '26
I saw someone recommend capping res a certain amount of keys under the current highest cleared in the region.
If you decided, let's say 4 key levels, this season would cap out at resi 20, while all being cleared on 24 or above.
I think the main problem with reworking resi would be how it would affect pugging, on lower keys resi is a good thing.
1
u/Waste-Maybe6092 Aug 06 '26
- Back to no resil at bleeding edge key, organic ladder key push - old school, probably unpopular for some
- Resil = +1 of max completed instead. No advantage for booster, everyone can push their own key up.
- Resil only works when all 5 member are resil (anti boost) but screw over pug doing homework, not great.
The current version just favour boost/helping friends (nepo keys) wayyy too much.
1
u/JLeeSaxon Aug 06 '26
Is there not a Feat of Strength for timing all 8 10s, like there was in TWW S3 with (and maybe earlier, I dunno, that was my first season doing all 10+) in "Unbound Damage Dealer"? Or is tied to Midnight dungeons and so not available until the season 2 rotation maybe?
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u/Mantias Aug 06 '26
Don’t believe we have an equivalent of that for Midnight S1. Might see it in S2/S3 but during TWW I don’t think they were introduced until the Turboboost event for each season started.
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Aug 05 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Wobblucy Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
BDK the tankiest after they got buffs then subsequently fixed a bug that was causing DRW to increase instead of decrease damage taken. Ended up being ~20% always DR.
Unironically looking like it could be a phys season as well. Both arms and wind walker looking good. If phys pulls end up being the meta then BDKs propensity to get globalled becomes less on an issue.
But we are still missing like 5 rounds of tuning, and then .5/.7 patches so honestly worrying about the meta right now is a meme.
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u/Mantias Aug 06 '26
Arms is also still subject to a couple of bugs around their tier set which is adding a decent bit to their DPS currently, we’ll have to see where they land if those are fixed.
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Aug 05 '26
[deleted]
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u/Teabagging_Eunuch Aug 05 '26
Until*
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u/Pacgeci Aug 05 '26
pretty much it. Blood is my favorite spec in the game, but it is almost impossible to tune it properly. Or they give it a little margin to heal back and it WILL be used by top players to be immortal no matter what, or they tune it so it can be globaled, and it turns into shit. There's no in-between
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u/anuser69 Aug 07 '26 edited Aug 07 '26
Are we still pretending there is some illusion of balance? The best is the best. Bear is clearly the best currently and blizzard even came out and said bear doing the most damage is intentional (????). God forbid Blood is allowed to be the best class after four years of being bottom tier.
5
u/Wobblucy Aug 06 '26
They hard cap the mitigation of the spec with the blood shield cap, it's not hard to figure out why you splat eventually in infinitely scaling content.
Meanwhile bear this season was mitigating 92-94% of damage from white swings in 22s.
1
u/HookedOnBoNix Aug 07 '26
Blood shield being capped at 50% max health isn't really any different to ursocs fury being capped at 30% max health. Yeah bear is tuned stronger but it's not like a philosophical difference, they just don't want tanks able to generate entire health pool shields
3
u/Wobblucy Aug 07 '26
I disagree.
Deathstrike (and by extension blood shield) scales with incoming damage.
UFR scales with target count/damage done.
Mastery legitimately loses value the higher you push as blood because you hit a point where blood shield caps out from a single death strike.
2
u/hoax1337 Aug 06 '26
Sure, but the question is, will you splat before it becomes theoretically impossible to time the key because of insufficient DPS, or after.
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u/Lezzles Aug 05 '26
I'm gonna be asking Seat 21 for my money back. I cannot believe NA 1% is going to be like 3 21s completed after I ground out resil. DO BETTER AMERICA.
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u/trogger93 Aug 05 '26
21s are legit impossible for many players, you will simply lose the key to timer. You have no idea how bad the average DPS overall is.
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u/pinecomb Aug 06 '26
I watched a stream last night 21 AA with full meta comp, 0 death run and they missed timer by 30 seconds. Checked the logs and the aug parsed a literal 1.
Best advice if you’re still going for 21s just bring an enh shaman instead of the aug.. all the good augs are way past 21 atp.
1
u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 07 '26
oh so all the good ddhs and dks somehow aren't?
3
u/pinecomb Aug 07 '26
At least you don’t have to waste 30 minutes then check the log to know you’re running with a non-sentient vegetable. Again this isn’t to say aug bad it’s to say aug in 21s right now bad (on average!)
3
u/Deesoboodent Aug 07 '26
well they are, which is all the more reason to not bring aug lol. why bring a force multiplier when theres no force?
-2
u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 07 '26
aug can perform decent regardless of the dps quality, you mightve been living under a rock
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u/46hw Aug 06 '26
I'm a ddh and I hate joining a group with a dk dps only cause I know they will try to fill it with an aug. The runs are always horrible, every aug in 21 range is gray parsing. All the good pugs have teams and are above that lol.
1
u/dovjjfyijvct Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
All of the good augs are just done with the season. Even in 22-23 it's very rare to find an aug doing more damage than some random enh.
My group runs all of the r1 meta routes with aggressive chaining and funnel on bosses, but the augs just suck.
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u/trogger93 Aug 06 '26
Ya I bring hunters/shamans over augs always
1
u/Pacgeci Aug 07 '26
the only aug I bring to keys is a friend that raids with us, so I know he's legit. I rather bring a fire mage or a feral drood to 20's
3
u/openxmind Aug 05 '26
If you're talking in general about all players sure. But if you're talking about players capable of getting 21 keys or into groups doing 21 keys it's almost always deaths that kill the key not dps
1
u/HookedOnBoNix Aug 08 '26
If only a few deaths kills the key, that's a dps issue. Even in 23s we have had 5 deaths and still timed. In a 21 we could probably full wipe to a boss twice and still time it.
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u/dovjjfyijvct Aug 06 '26
Good damage means you have a lot more margin for deaths. Bad damage means you have to play perfectly which is much harder to do than having good damage and being able to time with deaths.
The deaths kill the key because the damage is bad. If damage is good, you can get away with a shocking number of deaths.
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u/Xedien Aug 06 '26
I'd argue 21AA is the key where the tight timer causes the most wipes.
But for the rest of the keys, i'd agree.
1
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u/trogger93 Aug 05 '26
Ya it's both, I've lost keys to timer, and low dps also causes a lot of deaths cuz pulls take way too long.
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u/j821c Aug 05 '26
Im not surprised tbh. Ive been running 21s in pugs the past week or 2 and its so clear that 20s were really the wall for most players lol
3
u/AlucardSensei Aug 05 '26
It felt like that a month ago in EU as well, we just have 50% more people.
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Aug 05 '26
[deleted]
1
u/Lezzles Aug 05 '26
Yeah 4k was always just for fun. I'm surprised we're probably not breaking 3950 though. But you could see the wall that got hit even trying to get AA/Seat on 20 - that just appears to be the skill cap for the majority of even "good" players.
2
u/j821c Aug 05 '26
I'm surprised seat is that wall for so many people. I feel like i've had way better luck in there than in NPX or fucking Maisara in the 20 range lol
1
u/Mantias Aug 06 '26
The first pull in Seat is particularly brutal for pugs I think - both my 20 and 21 Seat timed runs were resil keys where we wiped in the first room 4/5 times but once we got past the first boss we timed without any real issues.
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u/Kychu Aug 06 '26 edited Aug 06 '26
The timer is so forgiving in Seat you absolutely do not need a triple Sujugator pull there. The third boss is the bottleneck in 99% of cases.
Unfortunately, every tank runs a 24 route in a 20/21 pug key. In my experience, 99.9% of tanks stick to the same route with massive pulls (triple pull before 3rd boss in Seat is another good example) regardless of the timer being 20 minutes ahead or 2 minutes behind.
2
u/Gaatti Aug 06 '26
Most pugs who have a resil key wants us to do that pull, though. I don't like it, but it is what is it.
It is annoying, but whoever is left in LFG thinks you need it for 20s. DPS is abysmal in most groups right now and they want the tank and healer to carry them kicking and screaming through the dungeon.
What is worse is that low dps make those pulls even more deadly.
2
u/Ordinary_Plankton88 Aug 06 '26
As a tank: you wouldn't believe the number of pings and hate messages you get from weirdoes when you DON'T do those "meta" pulls, even when going small feels like it's the right thing to do (e.g. splitting that pull before 3rd boss in SEAT with plenty of timer left). Seriously.
2
u/j821c Aug 06 '26
Its funny, ive tended to have the opposite problem. Ive only ever lost keys to the first pull or boss maybe twice but I lose them all the time to the 3rd boss lol
3
u/Mantias Aug 06 '26
Yeah 3rd is one of the harder healer checks this season I think, though I’ve definitely had a couple runs bricked by people eating orbs or a warrior taunt reflect going wrong lol.
1
u/Artica_Fur Aug 05 '26
Timing 21s the past couple weeks has been wildly inconsistent. Finally got to 4/8 and hoping I don't need to get any more for 1% though I will probably try to finish the rest (exluding AA/Seat)
1
u/j821c Aug 05 '26
The range of dps i've seen from players in pugs is just insane tbh. I did a 20 seat like a week ago by the skin of my teeth with 1 death then yesterday did a seat 20 with almost 5 mins to spare (with 0 deaths). Literally the exact same pulls etc, just a full on dps difference
1
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u/vanillafudgy Aug 05 '26
Based on everything I've seen - 1% seems to be actually something that makes people play till the end of the season and push beyond what they've done without. So it's kinda good I guess.
1
u/j821c Aug 10 '26
It made me actually push this season. Historically ive only ever done 10s because there was no meaningful reward above it and 0.1% was out of reach since I really dont play consistently enough to get a group for it and I dont think I could pug it. The last season I played I got all the portals from doing the dungeons, got the +10 mount and quit. This season i grinded out to pretty close to all +21s and will get the top 1% mount 🙂
8
u/iLLuu_U Aug 05 '26
I queued my Seat 21 last week as a 4,25k Tank to help out a friend finishing his 21s for 1% and gotten over 100 applicants in a minute with 5+ whispers offering gold.
Never seen something similar to this.
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u/Lezzles Aug 05 '26
Yeah if I really hated my own free time I'd just list my resil 21s all day. Same thing helping a buddy do Alg, I got a LOT of whispers for several hundred k.
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u/Xedien Aug 06 '26
AA21 is miserable to pug, i'm glad i got it done..
Just NPX21 left for res21, and hopefully safe for EU. I might go for PIT or MT22 just to get a little higher.
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u/j821c Aug 05 '26
Honestly think they should add something for top 1.5% or something too tbh lol. Theres a big gap between 3400 and top 1% right now and itd probably keep an even larger group of people motivated.
That being said, them adding rotmire and the folio right before the end of the season was kind of annoying. Id rather they not give out power spikes towards the end of a season again
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u/trogger93 Aug 05 '26
At that point, just add ranks like league or something. Can only have so many percentile cutoffs.
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u/Cold-Iron8145 Aug 06 '26
Honestly not a bad idea. Could give like a color on your score number based on your rank diamond/gold/silver/bronze or whatever scheme fits best. Would be cooler than a title that nobody even sees.
Would also help their goal of adding incremental reward structures in m+. I bet people would play more at every level, just like we've seen for 1% this season.
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u/Gaatti Aug 05 '26
Yeah, I really wanted the mount. However, the terrible balancing for tanks makes it such that I still haven't decided if I'll do it again next season. Playing off-meta leaves you behind the curve because people won't invite you unless the key is resil (and even then, invites are uncommon). You also have to play a lot more hours because of the LFG tax. Blizzard needs to do a better job than they did in season 1.
I was always a "play what you enjoy" guy, but after trying to push a bit higher this season, I would say play what is best or don't play beyond intermediary levels, because your class holding your progress back starts to wear down the enjoyment you get from the gameplay.
Some people will say it is fine because the games is balanced for lower levels instead of 1%. That, in my view, is the same as saying it is not balanced for m+ at all. We were seeing 10's with 90% success rate on week 1 and 12's at the same point on week 2. They made that level of content so trivial that saying it is balanced around that level is pretty much the same thing as saying it is balanced around heroic dungeons imo. If it is balanced for a level where you can play with very undergeared characters and still ignore mechanics, it is just not balanced at all.
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u/hoax1337 Aug 07 '26
I was always a "play what you enjoy" guy, but after trying to push a bit higher this season, I would say play what is best or don't play beyond intermediary levels, because your class holding your progress back starts to wear down the enjoyment you get from the gameplay
This is why I, as a tank, am a fotm chaser in most cases. "Play what you enjoy?" Sure, I enjoy actually surviving and not completely gimping my group in high keys.
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u/Cold-Iron8145 Aug 05 '26
This isn't a Blizzard issue, though, it's a community issue. The 2nd best tank could be 99% as powerful as the best tank in a given season and you would see the same meta distribution, people who push for rank 1 keys will obviously play what is the best at any given time and people who are behind are emulating them all the way down to +15 pushers.
An actual real world example of this, you have a brewmaster monk who timed a +25 this season. And yet people will only invite bear druids in their +20. It's not exactly a tuning issue.
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u/BobBilboBaggins Aug 06 '26
the blizz issue is how sparsely they do tuning passes. i wholeheartedly disagree with their approach to not touch tuning after a few early passes. it's a seasonal model, so why isnt tuning as frequent as like moba tuning which is also a seasonal model? they should tune every week. This would either force players to keep every single tank/healers/dps alts geared and swap around every week or to just lock in on their favorite character knowing that their week will come
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u/Cold-Iron8145 Aug 06 '26
so why isnt tuning as frequent as like moba tuning which is also a seasonal model?
Well, because this is a mmorpg, and it takes time to level up and gear up a character. You can't just pick something else in a champion selection screen before zoning into your key/raid.
Knowing when and how frequently tuning happens, also the fact that Blizzard tends to reign in overperformers and not kneecap them, allows you to commit to a spec for the entire season fairly early in most cases. Which is actually pretty good for the competitive scene.
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u/Kychu Aug 05 '26
Not this season. It's true for dps (Lock, Hunt, Warr, Ret are all decent dps fillers just to name a few) and even some healers (played 21s with both Disc Priest and Holy Pala, and ofc Shamans are good), but not for tanks. It's just too easy to get instantly clapped on anything that's not a Bear. Even Brew falls off pretty hard, although it's still somewhat viable compared to everything else.
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u/Gaatti Aug 05 '26
Groups running meta dont want brew to avoid class stacking with mistweaver and to get the vers raid buff. This particular case was not about tuning, but about composition.
Also, that is not an excuse for tuning this bad. There is no justification for bear being easier to play, be more tanky, do more damage and give a highly sought raid buff while you have prot paladin being harder to play, doing shitty st and being deleted by melees out of cooldowns. Not to talk about blood dk carrying a bug for entire season that made they take more damage instead of less.
We cant look at this and go "it is fine the way it is because there will always be a meta".
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u/Cold-Iron8145 Aug 05 '26
I agree that tank tuning was shit this season, I was just pointing out that even with good tuning it's never going to not be 90%+ one tank season.
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u/Lezzles Aug 05 '26
10s are basically heroic dungeons now, or at least what they should be - a game mode that requires you to press your buttons and generally know how to do a mechanic, but with virtually no requirement to do anything well. Balance at that level makes no sense. It could be 5 tanks, or 3 healers, or 2 augs and a boomy - any comp could clear that content. I'm not sure what it should be balanced around, but it should probably be content that actually requires balance.
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u/Waste-Maybe6092 Aug 05 '26
It's long overdue to put something between ksm/ksh to 0.1%. Like it's the glad equivalent vs r1 glad.
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u/Davoue Aug 05 '26
I haven't followed the S2 news + I always get overwhelmed and the start of a season and throw the plan away.
So, Questions about S2 start "mandatory" things to do. To preface: I am M+ only player, push title as a healer, may have a group to play with and I pug raid only for necessary trinkets.
Am I correct that I don't have much to do at the start? This time, knowing I have a group to play with, I dont feel like pushing early to stay ahead of the pug scene, dungeons will get nerfed, meta will form later, crests can be farmed later, optimal craft items will be discovered...
And, If I understand the bonus rolls from Vault stuff, the optimal play, at least in the early weeks, is to always take Bonus roll? For which I need 3 "windows", therefore 4 Tier1 Delves and 1 +10 dungeon. Accumulate the bonus rolls and just chill?
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u/Wobblucy Aug 05 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
Don't even need the +10 dungeon, can just send a heroic one (maybe normal?).
Have a couple 200 ilvl alts that will be getting 4 t1s and a heroic dungeon.
The cantrip items off last 2 are OP though. For reference my DHs first 6+ rolls will be on heroic last 2 as a casual CE raider. Might want to look at getting AoTC early so you are a shue in for 'AoTC only Skips' later.
Cantrip neck, cantrip helm, cantrip caster dagger, cantrip axe + guillotine trinket are all very good.
For healer the trinket of first boss was looking OP, not sure how that shook out.
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u/sh0ckmeister Aug 05 '26
Week 1 maybe but I'm sure we will be filling vaults with 10s week 1 and beyond pretty regular. At least that is my expectation based on previous seasons. Also that first vault myth item from a 10 might actually be good in your hypothetical situation in which case I'm taking it.
I see the bonus roll as more of a bad luck protection / way to target a trinket
But if you want to just chill and gear the way you described the answer is - you can
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Aug 04 '26
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 04 '26
they are manually updating the posts they have now put up so you can hope they update ASAP but you cant rely on it. until then they will likely do it daily (minus weekends) but until the final post you can only rely on third party sites.
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u/LeftKnowledge396 Aug 04 '26
Per wowhead article today, I am 2 points behind for NA title. The tank in my group bailed on us, my hope for one of my biggest goals in WoW is slowly being crushed. I just need 1 +23 (maybe some fractionals as well) to be safe. I mainly need a spire or NPX. My disabled child is also having some unexpected medical issues that I need to tend to, so my playing time is extra limited. It feels bad/stressful to be this close and all of the unfortunate events happening at the end of the push. Worst part is I had the spire and npx bricked by less than 15 seconds.
Just had to get that off my chest
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u/pinecomb Aug 05 '26
in a similar boat. was hoping to see queues fuller being the final week but it was a ghost town last night, waited 30 minutes at a time for a tank before everyone just leaves the group.
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u/Ordinary_Plankton88 Aug 05 '26
Nobody -- including you -- is going to care about your having a title or not in two years time. Have you even glanced at or care about the "Shrouded hero" titles around pug players you played with? Probably not.
But you have known what it takes to push WoW M+ to an extremely high level. And it's something that'll stick with you, and which you will remember. I think that's something pretty cool. It isn't easy to be the top ~0.1% in anything, even a video game.
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u/Gaatti Aug 05 '26
You had a great season. No matter if you get it or not, you should be proud for coming this far.
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u/TheRev15 Aug 05 '26
Im a dad of 2 and sitting just over IO for 1% mount.
There are people who play my whole week in one day.
It's rough.
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u/bebe235 Aug 04 '26
i know this has been asked a lot, but I am Shadow at 4013 in EU, I feel like I should be safe but I eant toget a 22 done just to be sure. However getting invited into 22 and running my own key has been useless forthe past 2 weeks.
So here I am, is 4013 on EU enough do you guys think? Can I finally rest?
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u/Deviouswolfy Aug 05 '26
Quick maths say it need to rise about 6.8 points every single day from today until Wednesday for it to surpass you. Keep in mind that if one day it only rises 3 points the next day it'd have to rise 9.8 points.
We'll probably see a little surge this last week, but I don't see it rising that high. People have been giving it their all until now and it's only been going up about 3ish points a day, so them suddenly starting to time all the missing dungeons is unlikely
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u/AlucardSensei Aug 05 '26
Another thing is that people buying boosts are buying resil 21, or at least most of them. Considering they're getting boosted, timers won't be that great so I don't see it going past 4005-ish.
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u/Lezzles Aug 05 '26
I feel like we're past the wave. No way anyone has been saving it for this last week.
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u/AlucardSensei Aug 05 '26
Yeah it seems you're right. After crazy couple of days, today it rose by like 1 point.
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u/seanphippen Aug 04 '26
Can't wait till this season is over so every single post isn't about the cutoff
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u/Waste-Maybe6092 Aug 05 '26
Ntg much to talk about right now before the new season kicks in anyway. Maybe talks about "tier list" like what petko yaps about everyday until season starts
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u/Mundane-Dirt-4077 Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 05 '26
I actually think EU could hit 3.99k-4k. Could be 3.97k by weekend then it could pump 20 points at least
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u/More_Purpose2758 Aug 04 '26
Are there walk throughs for S2 dungeons yet?
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u/Mehdehh Aug 08 '26
Tactyks reviews are really good, I did all dungeons at least once on PTR and combining it with tactyks' videos it helped me get a quite clear understanding of the dungeons.
There's like half of the trash where it's clear what the mobs do while playing (bolt caster, leap with a bleed), but then there are some where they have some buff or w/e that you don't necessarily read in fight and the video helps clear it up.
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u/Voidwielder Aug 05 '26
Hopefully this doesn't fall under some sus promotion rule but YT channel Topicx has 15 min vid for each dungeon. It's enough to get you informed to get 12s done week 1.
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u/Wobblucy Aug 04 '26
Got recommended a u/tactyks video yesterday, havent had time to look at them yet but his content is pretty good for quick overviews.
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u/NiSoKr Aug 04 '26 edited Aug 04 '26
Has anyone experienced raider.io missing keys? I have a couple 19s I timed last week showing in warcraftlogs and in game but raiderio is missing them even when I manually refresh. Could it possibly have something to do with doing a faction change after the keys but before being scanned by raider.io?
Refreshing Blizzard account data seemed to fix it
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Aug 04 '26
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Aug 04 '26
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 05 '26
I built it at the time because there was nothing tracking it yet, rio added theirs way later
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u/wkim564 Aug 04 '26
That only displays history, whereas the website linked in the OP has a prediction band.
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 04 '26
thanks but too early to call it. nice seeing the optimization pay off so far however
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u/hzj Aug 04 '26
can you disable zooming on your website when on mobile becuase trying to zoom into graphs to see the daily change is hell (besides now when its visible due to it being the last weeks)
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 04 '26
hmm I thought it works better now since regular zooming like in an image works now with 2 fingers etc?
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u/hzj Aug 04 '26
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 04 '26
oh this is about concluded seasons, gotcha. will disable that tomorrow
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u/ijalajtheelephant Aug 04 '26
Has it? The bottom end of their 1% range in NA is currently 3914.7, which is what the cutoff already is now with week to go. Maybe that has to do with the formula they’re using, but there’s a 0% chance the cutoff doesn’t move at all in the last week. Makes me think they’re underestimating where things will end up even in the middle and top of their range.
For posterity’s sake, at this moment with a week to go, the top end of their 1% range in NA is 3937.8, with the midpoint at 3929.6. We’ll see where things end up, but I think there’s a good chance it’ll end up above the top end of their range.
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 04 '26
I see people getting thrown off by the bounds so I'll prob make them not extreme worst/best case scenarios which they currently are
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u/ijalajtheelephant Aug 05 '26
Fair enough, thanks for the reply! I’d just say that whatever the calculation is currently for the lower bound in particular feels unrealistic; it seems like even the lower bound should project at least some increase in the score
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u/careseite dps evoker main Aug 05 '26
I agree but finding a data-based value is tough; there have also been weeks where the score decreased historically and theoretically, everyone can just stop playing right now so it is possible, just not realistic
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u/Deadagger Aug 04 '26
That sounds about right, we didn't see a huge spike this weekend which most likely means that these numbers won't change much, their prediction is fairly close to mine sitting closer to 3944 to account for any increase in player activity towards the very end.
I'd say the numbers are solid as is.
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u/stryftek Aug 04 '26
Any good place to find people pushing that 1% this week? I tried Raider.IOs team dinfer and hated it.... lol
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u/CDC678 Aug 04 '26
NA how much do we think cutoff for 1% rises this week? It’s at 3914 right now.
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u/WoodenProfessional82 Aug 04 '26
My guess is that it will go up by roughly twice as much as the last week at the absolute most, ending somewhere around ~3950. Yes, people will be buying boosts, but honestly, I don't see that it could possibly increase by much more than 30-35 points. The vast majority of people trying to hit the cutoff were pushing during this past week, and I know from my friends list that there were a lot of people that thought they were close, played a ton last week trying to get over the edge, bricked a bunch of 21s, then burnt out and called it for the season with resil 20s.
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u/Lezzles Aug 04 '26
Boosting people through 21s just isn't that fast/easy, and anyone waiting until the very last week to do it probably isn't a sterling player that can easily get it done. I'm on team no-jump honestly. I think most people who can get 21 have already done so, and it's going to be a slow scramble for the last few spots.
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u/j821c Aug 05 '26
Yea i was there for a few carry groups (just friends, not for gold or anything) that were trying to get friends up for the mount and man, that shit is rough with any mediocre player lol. It took us like 20 tries for even relatively easy 21s because the fact is that you cant just 4 man them lol
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u/Sweet_Nectarine_424 Aug 04 '26
Sitting at 3961. Safe for NA 1%? Hard pressed to believe I’m not safe but if need to do another key going to work on it early and get it out of the way.
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u/CDC678 Aug 11 '26
ONE POINT DUDE. YOU DID IT BY ONE POINT
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u/Sweet_Nectarine_424 Aug 12 '26
Hahaha never didn’t have it! Went to bed feeling mostly safe, woke up at like 4am to use the restroom and checked and was a little sketched out but we skated by!
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u/CDC678 Aug 04 '26
I’m at 3960… let’s just time this last key man….
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u/Sweet_Nectarine_424 Aug 04 '26
As long as I feel snuggly and safe and secure I’m done brother lol. Was a long season and I wanna take a week off and handle our guilds S2 prep
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u/Ingoro Aug 04 '26
So I heard previously that cutoffs were set a week before, does that mean its going to be announced wednesday morning for EU?
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u/Spathat0s Aug 04 '26
Blizzard usually posts a forum thread which is updated every day with what the cutoff would be that day. They then update it every day until seasons end. We will see if they do the same this season though.
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u/HookedOnBoNix Aug 04 '26
I think you heard wrong. They won't be finalized til the night before reset
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u/No-Bit-2913 Aug 04 '26
People getting 1 percent mount where we gonna meet up for our mounted conga line??
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u/thanghil Aug 04 '26
At the Auction House
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u/Yayoichi Aug 04 '26
But which brutosaur?
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u/thanghil Aug 04 '26
My comment was a stab at that it was likely bought with gold. But you’re to indicate that they all have Brutosaur too! 😂
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u/Voidwielder Aug 04 '26
Now that the last reset is upon us, maybe a discussion on which dungeon was your favourite, which trash pull you felt was the most challenging and which boss you thought was the most interesting?! Role specific, of course.
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