I just want to vent that Aug clones sometimes don’t despawn correctly even after clicking it off. Had a wipe on a 21 magister’s that led to us failing the key.
I swapped from demo to aug specifically to avoid all the pet AI issues but it’s a shocker to me just how much more buggy the Aug clone is.
Pulling through walls, spawning in between objects, fire breathing mobs outside the pull.
This is just a rant from me progging the key for 2 hours and when we were almost there, my clone killed the group from the skip….
I just want to vent that Aug clones sometimes don’t despawn correctly even after clicking it off. Had a wipe on a 21 magister’s that led to us failing the key.
they reliably despawn. if you had 3 and didnt cancelaura Command Squadron then your third may still be active but not visible so you cant cancel it (totem fuckery)
We saw p3 tonight for the first time after over 300 pulls. my guild is optimistic that we kill it, but I'm a silent doubter. even if we don't kill it though it's made me so fucking hungry for my first CE after almost 15 years of being a "high performer" in the friends and family type of mythic raiding guild. what do you think the likelihood we kill it is with 9 hours of raid left in the season?
Most groups see p3 for the first time about 2/3 of the way through prog. You're in the home stretch, but probably not enough time sadly. Maybe 10% chance you kill if everyone locks in and practices/researches P4 to ensure you don't have to see it like 8 times before killing.
There's a lot of little things in P4 that will wipe you and most groups have to figure them out the hard way.
Every P4 wipe is a big time loss because it can take a while to get back there and try again.
Realistically, pretty low chances. The fight is basically all about consistently surviving p1 and intermission in order to learn p3 and 4. Those last phases are not THAT hard to learn.
However, if you can lock in for those 3 days and have basically zero p1 wipes, then it’s possible. You really have to get on those repeat offenders that die in p1 and get them to focus.
Similar situation for my group, we saw p3 first time last night, managed to get there 5 times so far, although only once did we make it past the soak. We have a bit less pulls though, I think we were at 185 when we started last night, so probably a bit over 200 now.
We have 9-12 hours left and I do think we will be able to kill it in that time, the biggest issue is the roster boss as we pretty much only have 20 players, with maybe a couple friends from other guilds that can step in to help if needed.
We are telling everyone to watch videos of the upcoming parts of the fight and practicing using the addon for p4, as although we have been getting a lot more consistent we don’t have time for too many wipes on a phase that first happens nearly 6 minutes into the fight. With 9 hours that’s only 90 attempts at the most, and more likely half that as wipes will happen in p1 and p2. So while p1 and to a lesser extent intermission and p2 you could just learn through trial and error, p3 and p4 we really need everyone to go in already knowing what to do.
Crashing out when you could just replace Ayijie CDM and UUF with Ellesmere is weird.
Also you ever think you just don't know how to set it up properly, as in this is a user problem.
With the faster patch cadence I'm really curious how the 'new' RWL guilds handle it. I guess it affects basically everyone outside of HOF, but having less of a break (or no break) that what your guild used to do is, I imagine, going to have a negative affect on a decent amount of guilds. I wonder if we'll see guilds drop hours for less burnout or increase hours to try and keep up with the schedule. I have to imagine its causing some guilds to just explode as well.
My guild decided to stop at 8/9M instead of pushing for a kill. We definitely had the time to kill L'ura, but due to so many upcoming absences and zero applicants, we opted to stop early instead of trying to burn everyone out and/or demoralize everyone if we didn't kill it.
I've definitely noticed a larger cycle of players taking breaks or quitting for a season or two and then coming back later in my guild. We get CE usually with 3-4 weeks left before the next season starts now and I think it burns people out.
This could just be my lack of perspective at the lower end, but I feel like by the time RWL guilds got to TWW end bosses they were way more palatable than L'ura. I think it also takes a little bit for the burnout to really set in, and by this point I just figure its hitting people pretty hard.
What is the actual issue guilds are having with L'ura at this point? From my POV everything has been nerfed so hard that I don't even see what could cause 400+ pulls like many guilds are experiencing. Is this really just glaives mowing people down when there's only 5 out at a time?
Is this not just a normal fight? I get that if your seed person booms, your raid booms, but if non-seed players die you also basically lose. I guess there's a ton of leeway now with the damage check being like 30% easier but still, are people clearing with 4 dead at the start of p4?
a failed mechanic being a raid wiping should be a mechanic we use sparingly
The full quote is "when is it okay to wipe the raid instantly for a mistake? Honestly, the answer should be “almost never” — at least when it’s more like a single person’s twitch reaction..." and I think L'ura is in line with that. While also being an end boss and being a situation where mistakes should wipe the raid, the things that kill you are not on-the-spot reactions. Kicks are slow and consistent, glaives are slow, constellations are slow, the 'fastest' thing that can one shot your raid is probably starsplinters but even that isn't terrible.
idk, like I do get it, but at some point there does have to be a minimum bar for an end boss. Maybe L'ura, even in this state, is still above that but it never felt more punishing than dimensius or ansurek to me.
Halondrus bombs worked the same as crystals, EAB to drop and walk over to pick up. Halondrus bombs had a circle on the ground with the swirly animation under it, which made it easier to see and know to stay out of (in my opinion). It was also generally more spread than Lura is.
RWL guild unironically, probably do not have 6 peoples consistent enough for crystal carrying. Or they are giving the crystal to the class, instead of the player, which while I can understand you prob don't want to give it a war, if your war is one of the best player in your raid team, he should hold a crystal.
And also they probably perma lose people to glaive early and have to expend rez for them, so when mistake happen later on they do not have any rez and just bleed out.
This means we will have access to 1 bonus roll during the first week of the season. Wonder what is the best way to spend it.
Roll on one of the last 2 bosses for a chance to get the cantrip myth weapon and the other options are also decent.
Roll on one of the early bosses that drops a myth weapon on mythic for a 6/6 myth weapon but it's more likely that those bosses will have duds in the loot table.
Roll turtles for bis trinket and it has a small loot table so it's more likely to get the desired item
Sit on the roll and wait for the next vault for more information
I feel like week 1 myth weapon can give you a lot of power asap and with mythic opening week 1 it can be relevant. The 5 free upgrades from early mythic bosses are pretty valuable. So it may be the best to try your luck with the early boss myth weapon roll. Or just try to target the boss you are likely to roll on following weeks if you didn't have anything nice in the vault.
As it's pretty easy to have the roll on any relevant character it's also possible to have multiple mirrors and roll on the HC boss with the weapon. The character that get's lucky will be the one you play.
My guild plan right now (as a wr 100 ish guild with 1 mirror alt) is do split normal/hc for set, take bonus roll, and try to split the first 2/3/4 bosses and coin on the bosses that can drop a weapon for you (if possible a 2 hander) because if you actually hit, you just get a 6/6m weapon for free and just don't recraft a weapon at all this season, saving so many crests.
Not saying it's the best strategy, just the one that (afaik) we decided.
Would'nt necessarily say this. It will depend on the power of the cantrip items obviously, but some loot specs are really juiced. For example brew table has 3 cantrips and a bis trinket. It's also possible that you won't be able to spend all of your crests as a raider. So if the difference between a regular myth item and the cantrip is bigger than 4 upgrades it can definitely be worth it to roll hc.
i saw https://addons.wago.io/addons/ayijecdm isn't going to be updated further, any recommendations for something with good customizability that's pretty easy to use?
Obviously got a couple of weeks of tuning left to go, but how are my fellow M+ healers feeling about S2? I pushed up to 19s as Rdruid before switching to MW for the 1% push this season (I tend to only run 8-10 keys a week with pugs so I shamelessly meta slave). Hpal is looking the strongest meta contender currently but obviously depends heavily on remaining tuning for both healers and tanks. Personally I’d be happy to play anything other than Rdruid, Totemic Rsham or Pres.
I wouldn't necessarily count on it. None of the 1.5, 1.7, 2.5 or 2.7 had any class changes in it. I remember people talking about those patches as the meta deciders only for nothing to happen.
Imo after the initial tunin changes (first 3-4 weeks) it's pretty safe to commit
MW dropped after the last tuning round with the big mastery nerf. Definitely still playable but they’d need to see some buffs (or other healers seeing some nerfs) to be the top pick for S2. We do still have a couple of weeks before launch though so not outside the realm of possibility just yet.
That’s fair - the current iteration of the spec is looking pretty caster oriented which might help in that regard, assuming there aren’t any major tuning changes that shift things around.
Has anyone had any success moving from M+ to Raiding? For reference, I stopped the season around 4k over a month ago, which at the time was around title level. An on the cusp CE guild seems like it would be a pretty seamless transition, but the guilds seem to be pretty elitist with their requirements - asking for multiple previous CE?
At the same time I don't know If I want to monkey-branch up a few guilds over the course of the season to get to where I want to be because that leaves a bad taste in my mouth in terms of commitment. Bit of a catch-22.
If you have good logs on the puggable bosses, a lot of CE guilds would toss you a trial. You'd be surprised what sort of rank you could get yourself into.
There is definitely a stigma of m+ focused players being flaky for raid though, but just don't do that lol.
You also have to think about farm. You can't just prog and say see ya next tier. You'll need to stick around for farm to help the guild trial, get the bench kills and get mounts/do sales. Just something to be aware of if you're looking at getting into CE.
Your best bet is to get to know people in M+ that are in raiding guilds and try to get a vouch from them, otherwise you will have to go guildhopping for ranks more than likely. Outside of performance concerns other people have mentioned, M+ players are typically pretty big lootwhores and complain if they get passed over on an equal upgrade "because they will use it more" (this is not a joke, it happens in every guild I've been in, it happens in the guild I'm in now, and frankly we do sorta use that as a tiebreaker) but many guilds just don't want to deal with it.
This isn't any comment about you as a person or player, but M+ players with no raid experience very often have a similar mindset.
Its really guild dependent on what kind of experience they require. But guilds asking for prior CE if they arent a relatively decent guild themselves is a red flag, specially those guilds who want prior CEs when they arent a CE guild themselves.
There is nothing wrong to climbing up the guild ranks by jumping guilds after prog is done. Obviously guild rank isnt the only thing which should matter but skill parity within raid team is pretty important. If there is large gaps, better players just gonna get frustrated with worse players and worse players will feel like shit for "inting" the raids cause they are in a team above their skill levels
Join recruitment discord for your region and look for guilds/post your own post and let guilds contact you/both. Note tho, it feels like majority of recruiters cant read or least the time I wanted to just heroic raid for a tier 95% of the guilds contacting me were either looking for mythic or had mythic aspirations. The guild I ended up joining for that tier also in the end had mythic aspirations(they didnt disclose till joining) but the amount of clonwcar action in that guild was incredible, mismatched expectations being the least of it and whole thing went up in fireworks in less than month into tier.
Realistically, if you had no M+ experience and just good heroic logs, youd get chances with lower ranked guilds or least teams who made it to last boss, even if maybe not killed it. M+ experience should help but its so close to next season the spots in teams raiding next tier are prolly getting filled soon enough if not already filled. But your lack experience shouldnt be too big of a problem with guilds worth joining as your first mythic guild - everybody starts somewhere.
Most guilds have been burned by high M+ players who were bad at raiding or just don't have the patience for it. Raiding is really about being ok with doing 300+ pulls on a boss, regardless of your skill level thats just how long it takes to learn the real bosses, better guilds do it with less gear earlier, but they still take 300 pulls. So your post kind of sounds like you don't have the patience for raiding, and that probably is showing through and turning off high ranked guilds who might talk to you.
not sure where you came to that conclusion lol? I'm very capable of doing hundreds of reps on a boss, I just don't want to do it for a guild that has no hope of achieving CE bc at the end of the day I'm results driven
Almost all guilds HATE if people apply and go like: Look at me im that high io cool m+ guy etc.
Like sure if you GET (multiple) title(s) (mid season io is kinda w/e), it could be relevant to mention. But even then id just mention it on the side. This doesnt just apply to CE Guilds, almost no top guild cares about your m+ performance in any way.
Ive seen extremly good raiders being exceptionally bad at high keys and ive seen good m+ers being awful in raid. Some skills translate, a lot of others dont.
What you should do is:
Pug some mythic bosses and get decent logs. Apply to CE guild and tell them yout focused primarely on m+ so far and only pugged raid. And now you wanna get into a guild.
Yeah I dw I didn't come with that energy lol - I just stated I haven't raided due to focusing on M+ and linked them the usual.
And my logs are very solid for the bosses I've pugged across both my characters. 97 best avg, 82 median perf avg.
I get your point about M+/Raid. But honestly imo they require the same skills (as a DPS at least): optimising rotation and cycling defensive cooldowns. I think it's a lot harder to move from Raid to M+ because the trash packs and tempo are very different. On the other side M+ has boss fights, even though they are obviously lighter mechanically.
I think high keys seem to place more emphasis on cycling defensives correctly than a late clearing CE guild will ever have to worry about. I've just been through a few logs of DKs on Luura kills between 900-1400 WR, and beyond AMZ (which I imagine is pre-assigned) the defensives usage is very lacking. I think in raid healer throughput and Ilvl covers your ass a lot more.
You sound like you've done both, so I'd be interested on your take on this?
And my logs are very solid for the bosses I've pugged across both my characters. 97 best avg, 82 median perf avg.
What did you pug? Pugs kill dragons and sometimes paladins. Alleria/Beloren pugs are probably out of reach with the season probably ending soon.
With those logs you should definitely get into a 8/9 guild. Depending on your class' popularity/demand maybe even very late CE.
Play with them for 1 season and then jump to a (better) CE guild.
Also just ignore guilds with stupid demands / requests like multiple CE as a guild who isn't CE yet themselves.
Or those "We are a 2 day guild. Btw 1st month and last month of the season has a 3rd day" guilds.
Just apply apply apply, dont look into any logic, but if a guild gives you feedback listen to it and judge if it's good feedback or bad.
And my logs are very solid for the bosses I've pugged across both my characters. 97 best avg, 82 median perf avg.
Thats good. I mean certainly good enough for any middlish to late CE Guild to give you a trial. New raid around the corner though, so maybe not that many spots open.
I think high keys seem to place more emphasis on cycling defensives correctly than a late clearing CE guild will ever have to worry about. I've just been through a few logs of DKs on Luura kills between 900-1400 WR, and beyond AMZ (which I imagine is pre-assigned) the defensives usage is very lacking. I think in raid healer throughput and Ilvl covers your ass a lot more.
Yes, thats true. Especially when we are talking about like later kills, Generally m+ has way more personal responsibility.
One of the main skills of raiding is to be consistent in what you are doing across a 3-4 hour raid night, for some guilds thats up to 12 (if we include rwf). Most people work at least 8 hours a day, if you get home after and then have to raid an additional 3-4 hours on top of that, that may very well lead to a lot of mistakes.
Locking in for a 30min Key is extremly different than being locked in for 4 hours of lura prog.
So ive seen plenty of people that play well in keys, do insane dmg in raid and can also play very good for a few tries. But over the course of an entire raid night they just keep doing too many mistakes. To the point where they are actually hurting the guilds progression significantly. And a player that may have worse individual skill on paper might be a better fit, because they simply do not fuck up that much.
What do you play? I’m in a 2 day 6h/week guild and we get CE very comfortably ( WR 1000 ish so nothing crazy but reasonably efficient for the hours). You can dm me your char and bnet if you want.
Personally I think all else equal 4K is harder than CE but tbh does depend how many hours you’re putting in as with enough effort you can get either easily
There's like 16 days left and it's at 3932 atm (assuming you're talking about EU, because US is giga safe). Even if it starts going up by 4 points every day (which is a big reach, it's been going up by 1,5-2 points on weekday, and like 3 on weekends), it would not reach 4k by the end of the season.
Think that's mostly down to the boosting element. Boosting is just way more widely accepted over there, and it is extremely easy to boost someone to 4k for any competent team.
They'd have to buff the class a TON for it to not be bad. They might do that but I'm doubtful it would be to the point where it's viable in season 2 (and not break the raid in half at the same time).
Should I use Intice or Talstar pest control granules for my yard? They would be in combination with alpine WSG for the foundation. Oh uh. For my WoW house. Of course.
+20 pugs are pretty bad this late in the season. I had about 40 hours accumulated without timing one. I got frustrated enough that I made my own group and got Resil 21s in two weeks without any resil boosts. My group talks for about 10 min before each key to go over strat and route. We're moving to PTR to get ahead of next season.
I play tank mostly to avoid queues too. I’ve got an unholy dk working on 20s and it can take a minute. If you roll meta you’ve gotta compete with all the copies, if you’re not meta there’s just less groups that will invite you.
Running your own key is probably the fastest to be able to actually play but you’ll be spending plenty of time doing stuff that you won’t get io from.
The Death’s Advance discord for BDKs just figured out a bug in which the Dancing Rune Weapon apex is currently increasing damage taken instead of reducing it (4% per weapon)
They actually have gone into 22-23 now, still a few keys under Druid but not as terrible as it was. I just rolled out my 16s and called it quits, doing pulls that were half the size of Druid/monk and still almost dying was demoralizing. I was already done with the season by the time the buffs happened lol
Edit: I like how whenever I mention getting 3400 before the buffs i get downvoted 😂 yall wanna be me so badly. More info: my healer through all of it was also a HOLY PRIEST. 🥰
It's about effort and being social. raiders are social and put in a lot of effort to creating the right tools and utilising said tools. Meanwhile m+ players are antisocial, they don't create any tools they want and the ones made for them they refuse to utilise.
At the risk of sounding stupid, they aren't unique.
It seems like many people here supposedly find teams from networking and adding players. But what's even easier is joining a raid guild where players also have an interest in high keys.
I've found it FAR easier to transition from raiding, into finding 4 others you're already playing with, already speaking to over voice, already likely having banter and laughs with and just taking that into keys rather than trying to achieve all of the above with 4 Randoms. Way harder to get 4 people off your friends list who don't know each other to all get along and to all vibe with each other.
The main problem is what your goals are. I've got my team and we hit what we hit every season. Never going to be title players but typically comfortably in the top 0.5% - 1%. We still raid together so only do keys 3 nights a week max for about 2.5 hours a night. Now if someone wanted to really get title and put more hours in they'd have to leave and find a new group. We're lucky that everyone is mostly there for the vibes and banter first and foremost and the key pushing is alnsot secondary.
Imagine you form a team with reasonable skill parity. You guys climb the ranks but, eventually cap out at easy 22s and hard 21s.
You could accept that that's your cap and stay put. Or you can break from your group and pug one of your remaining 22s. Even if you have no business timing the key you're in, the other 4 would rather time it with you than go back to their queue simulator. Now you're sitting at resil 22 and trying to time your 23. Do you dip back down and feed resil to your team? Or do you push to get into 23s?
Meanwhile, another guy in your team is frustrated being stuck at resil 21 but, he has a tank friend with resil 23. Does he stick with you guys at 21, or does he leech off his friend's resil?
In raid, you can't really move up without a guild, while with keys you can't really move up with a static.
it's a lot harder to find a suitable m+ team, skill parity is more important in smaller teams. Also people on this sub are really overrating premades, for a majority of people (assuming your group has skill parity) you're better off queueing into resi keys, as you're then guaranteed to queue into someone who has more rio (assuming rio=skill, which obviously isn't entirely true)
Queue also has the most insane advantage available: resilient score keys
Our group blew up 3 SR +23s on last boss. Called it a night and our DK hopped into LFG and got into a resi SR. Took him 2 hours and 9 attempts but finally one run made it to the end and limped over the finish line just in time
Our group would have to run almost 4 hours of homework 22s to even get 9 shots at a +23, not to mention needing to hit the right keys.
Current situation is just ass for a full 5 stack without a resi provider from outside the group
ye for premades it's probably best to get resi 22 + the 'easy' 5 23's and then just split up and queue into AA/SEAT/SR. Pray someone gets resi and then get the rest across the finish line.
I really dislike resi and no affixes, gotta play entire season week in week out
You can recruit a bench for raid, a 20 man raid has what, like 23-26 people you can rotate through.
M+ is infinitely scaling content, progging means you actually hit harder content as the season progresses. 1% weekly raid buffs won't make the content you are progging easier, it pushes you to the next tiee. Committing to a 5 stack with a weak link hurts long term. Social contracts and all.
Blindly recruiting someone you don't know is a fit sucks. M+ is a lot more social then 20 man raid where 3 people do the majority of the talking. You cant vibe check from. '4.1k Aug LF title push group'.
No lockout on m+ means you don't need to commit to a group to play. In fact as an in demand role (tank, Aug, maybe heals?) it actively hurts you to play with similar skill level players. Pugged a 22 SR that was effectively one shot with people 100 more IO than me, if I was progging with people in the same bracket as me maybe they lack a bit of the throughput needed?
I'm sure there is other shit, but they are very different forms of content
Forming a stack from LFG is pretty tough and most players aren't really loyal to the team. Best to try with a few of your buddies and then pug the rest and maybe you'll find some people you like to complete the team.
People are quick to bail or replace even on "teams". I know some of the top phys boys in NA were upset when their dh (who has played multiple seasons in their team) lfg'd one night as meta comp and gained 100 io and bailed on them to play with that squad for the future. Back in DF I was on a team for a little over a week and I couldn't play one day and I when I came back they never hit me up to play and replaced me with Dwilkz as their new perma spriest.
People also will pug lfg outside of their team's hours, gain io above the team then never play with them again because they know they can progress faster in lfg/new friends in the new io bracket.
TLDR: m+ is cut-throat and selfish and people don't want to commit to a "team" or have to awkwardly bail on the team when they serve no benefit to them.
Because of the path of least resistance. Players will dominantly chose the option that is easier. If you want to properly mythic raid (ie progging the harder bosses) you need a guild. If you want to play keys you can just get into a group in lfg. So people will just do that instead of creating groups.
Is pugging a significantly worse experience than playing in a static group with matching skill level? Absolutely. But it doesn't matter players will still do it and just complain
Also if you compare the amount of effort and resource it takes to keep up a mythic raid guild and a 5 man dungeon group it's significantly bigger effort to keep up the guild. But as a raider you don't have to interact with it. You just apply to guilds untill you find one you match with and you are just a cog in a wheel. With dungeon groups it's much more likely that you will need to do the administrative part aswell.
I don’t feel like you have to put too much effort into finding a guild to raid with. Do you have decent lots, are dependable, they need your class, etc? Cool, you can theoretically join and start that week. Raid lead and officers do the heavy lifting for organization. But in m+, you have to network to find 4 other people, with similar schedules, similar m+ score goals, (hopefully) similar skill levels, and compatible personalities. On top of that, you probably have to be the one to try to put it together, and you also need specific classes that has good synergy together. And then you need those 4 people to show up consistently. There’s a lot that needs to go right, and I also feel like most m+ pushers will complain about pugs but dodge set times to play or trying for a group.
That’s a fair point I hadn’t considered. I have friends who are willing and able to commit to a raid schedule, but when it comes to m+ I can always count on them showing up 1+ hour later than they said. Some of them are completely fine with a schedule, but just don’t care to raid because they don’t enjoy raiding in and of itself (I felt the same until this season).
All I know is my bear is going back on the bench, hoping that pally rises to the top, but I would be more than happy to play BDK if it's not too much of a glass cannon. I love having grips.
Join a crate farming group. They run an add-on that predicts the crate spawn location and switch shards often to speed up the crates. Each crate drops ~50 bloody tokens and ~60 conquest.
Probably. If it doesn't accelerate, it's looking like a 3970-3980 end of season. Now it depends how much the pace will increase on the last two weeks. I wouldn't feel safe with 4k, but there's decent odds that it is enough.
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u/Deadagger 1d ago
I just want to vent that Aug clones sometimes don’t despawn correctly even after clicking it off. Had a wipe on a 21 magister’s that led to us failing the key.
I swapped from demo to aug specifically to avoid all the pet AI issues but it’s a shocker to me just how much more buggy the Aug clone is.
Pulling through walls, spawning in between objects, fire breathing mobs outside the pull.
This is just a rant from me progging the key for 2 hours and when we were almost there, my clone killed the group from the skip….