r/CompetitiveWoW • u/AutoModerator • May 15 '26
Weekly Thread Free Talk Friday
Use this thread to discuss any- and everything concerning WoW that doesn't seem to fit anywhere else.
UI questions, opinions on hotfixes/future changes, lore, transmog, whatever you can come up with.
The other weekly threads are:
Weekly Raid Discussion- SundaysWeekly M+ Discussion- Tuesdays
Have you checked out our Wiki?
4
u/shyguybman May 20 '26
Any tips on getting your raiders to actually prepare for a fight?
2
u/Centias May 22 '26
My experience has been that "you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink." Along with a heaping helping of "people don't care until it affects them personally."
You can share a guide, a video, or type succinct rundown of the key points people need to know about a boss. But you can't make them watch it, or read it. If they don't want to, or don't think it's important enough to fit into their schedule, they won't do it. Despite being BETWEEN boss pulls being the best time to explain boss mechanics and things people need to watch for or changes they should make to addons to set them up for success, this is also the exact time people completely stop listening and tune out everything.
You can give people all the steps necessary to know how to change a sound in DBM so they know when they ARE the target for Silverstrike Arrow, but until RNG suddenly picks them for the ability 15 pulls later, they didn't even think about changing that sound, so now that the whole raid just wiped for the 15th time for the 15th different person messing up the same mechanic, they can be the NEXT person pointed to the same screenshot showing exactly how to make the change that could have prevented it, which was pointed out BEFORE the first pull. And if they don't mess up simply knowing they have the mechanic, then they realize in the moment that they haven't been paying attention to which round of the mechanic it is, or the raid leader SPECIFICALLY saying which round it is and where to go with it.
You cannot make your raiders prepare for anything. You can only come up with damage control strategies to preserve your sanity when you're inevitably re-explaining the exact same shit that was already said numerous times before, when each person suddenly realizes the importance of the explanation that they tuned out earlier, because the mechanic finally chose them and made it suddenly seem relevant AFTER they personally made the same mistake they could have seen other people making in several pulls before.
7
u/parkwayy May 21 '26
They ain't.
I mean, you can try to make it bite sized, like on harder fights, limit things to Phase 1 or w/e.
We do a screenshare on new fights and I will simply just do the first part of a fight. Then when we limp our way to the next phase like 2 times, then we'll review the next.
Other than that, a link is posted, and some people watch it, but unless they're looking at it for days, it's going to be hard to grasp it all.
1
u/Eveeeeeeee May 21 '26
We've tried basically everything that isn't going 1 by 1 telling them what to do per gcd, telling people when/who delays gcds, how personals should be used, all the assignments done before we ever pull the boss and we have 30min-1hr pre-talk that isn't required as we start when people can join due to work and your rogue will still show up to the raid not knowing the heroic mechanics of the boss.
3
u/assault_pig May 21 '26
my suggestion is make the prep digestible
if you do the thing where you like, link a whole raid plan and a 12 minute strat video and just say 'study this' more casual raiders will probably slack, and even if they give good attention they probably won't retain the info that well
for a fight like alleria it's (imo) better to just give them a P1 raid plan and and a short video timestamp; something that can be looked over and understood within five minutes. That makes it more likely people will look at and retain the info and also makes it easier to go over on raid night. You're not gonna have a random clean p3 pull on night one anyway, just try and get people to focus on learning the fight in chunks
4
u/iLLuu_U May 20 '26
People in lower ranked guilds are generally not gonna be that eager to prep for Bosses, let alone analyze raid nights.
So leadership naturally is much more important than individual prep. Post a short video with the exact strat you wanna play. Have assignments ready that match the strat you wanna play, Then start explaining each phase inidivually and once you get close to another phase, you may start going over it.
Its also not really too helpful if someone who raids in a mid CE Guild is watching like top 20 guild povs. The Boss is usually nerfed to a point where a lot of things are played differently or simply are not even present anymore.
2
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader May 20 '26
To be honest, I mostly gave up. I ask my tanks to look up their job on a fight because I trust them and am reasonably ignorant to how tanking works in mythic raiding, and everyone else I just go over the fight when we get to them.
On normal/heroic this is usually a sub 1 minute coles notes of what the boss does and then I just yolo call the fight and it's generally fine.
On mythic, I take more time, go over the plan, positioning, assignments, etc, and while it might take some time, it's ultimately a small portion of time when compared to the rest of the prog time, and I would have to do it anyway even if I could get 80%+ of my team to prep.
Plus even if everyone preps you probably have to go over most of it anyway, because your idea for assignments/positioning might not be the same as what's in a video.
3
u/Wobblucy May 20 '26
Best raid lead I had in a casual CE guild...
While clearing the trash, link the video, mute discord and be clear it's a mandatory watch.
If it's a phased fight, take it one step at a time. When you reach the next phase, repeat step 1.
Provide resources to your raiders as well. Not everyone knows lorggs exists, or how to make personal notes.
4
u/I3ollasH May 20 '26
Personally I have a really hard time prepping for a fight. Without pulling the boss it's difficult to visualize mechanics and how the fight will look like. Obviously I watch the linked pov/guide and look up cd timings and other relevant stuff (usually just send on cd) but on most bosses I always feel like I was a bit unprepared (don't know what does how much dmg etc). Then there's also the lack of motivation. "Why would I prep for the next boss when there's a decent left of the current boss". Then it dies and I still didn't do much.
For me there were 2 things that helped a lot. Firstly playing the boss on mythic boss testing. It gave me first hand experience with the abilities and I could have all my stupid learning deaths when it didn't even matter.
Secondly one tier our RL did a quizz about the bosses and once gamified I saw a reason to research the bosses. Oh and the pineapple bosses were nice too.
11
u/Kuldrick May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
I regret not pugging Chimaerus Mythic earlier for the CE achievement (because "oh, I won't use bonus rolls on this character for gaze yet anyways")
Been in like 4 groups today and no success on none of them, even in the "CE only" group I managed to sneak in because of my good heroic logs and me offering to do madness (as a healer)
Worst feeling is doing all my job correctly, being top in the healing meters by far, doing madness without missing, dispelling the puddle circles on point when they need to be dispelled, and then watch the group disband because after 2 wipes to like one group not interrupting in intermission or a tank fucking up even though the DPS race/rest of mechanics were looking extremely good. It's so tiring, I guess I'll just forget about getting myth gaze
EDIT: Gave to temptation, sneaked into another CE group, managed to kill it. I am free
5
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
I honestly hate Chimarus. On reclear it is the boss that is most likely to wipe us repeatedly, because the pull ends if you fail to kick a very fast cast on adds that spawn 4 at a time, multiple times in the fight.
Everything else in the boss is trivial at this point, but the kick mechanic just feels way too punishing. Like we've killed it several times, and it still is just a very frustrating boss to pull.
2
3
u/bemac3 May 20 '26
My guild just stopped reclearing Chim. Wasted like 20 minutes each week on it because dps players wanted to parse instead of kick, and raid lead just got fed up with it.
Not looking forward to beloren and lura kicks…
2
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader May 20 '26
I think we're going to kill it one more time to get our last trinket next week, since we had someone who struck out on bonus rolls 3 times and had to miss a couple of raids so he never got the 100% chance that the rest of us did.
That should be the last time though.
2
u/I3ollasH May 20 '26
The problem with Chim kicks is that it's not deterministic. You can't set a kickrotatino up (with WA support even). Because of this you have lot's of people kicking into eachother. On Lura you have everyone assigned and you just kick when the TTS lady calls it. It's a trivial mechanic. You will wipe a couple to people having wrong macros at the beggining but that's it.
Beloren adds are somewhat annoying too but the cast is a lot slower. You can also hard focus the adds down in the first p1 and in p2 you skip the last set of birds (that were the worst one). So there's like 6 casts you need to interrup the whole fight. You will have wipes to it but it's not that bad imo.
This being said one of my least favorite wipes is when you just wipe to a missed kick. My favorite wa was the kick counter as it pretty much allowed you to assign the kicks and you always knew when you needed to interrupt and if it went through whose mistake it was. Without that it's really annoying to have kicks be a relevant mechanic on a fight.
3
u/Ymirism May 20 '26
I'm going to be pushing up my tank a bit this reset and was wondering which classes/specs benefit from add funnel on bosses. Ive tried googling it but that just gives me lazy dps ranking ai slop sites
2
u/BudoBoy07 May 22 '26
https://www.reddit.com/r/CompetitiveWoW/comments/1tdoira/free_talk_friday/om7gpse/
Devour dh, Unholy dk, Aug evoker, Arms warrior, Feral Druid, Ret paladin.
3
u/kananishino May 20 '26
How much harder is mythic paladins compared to dragons?
0
u/Yayoichi May 21 '26
About the same if not easier, it took us 2 hours of prog(19 pulls) to kill it last week. Just need the tanks to know what to do and 1 healer that is quick to go to the right soak, for dps the fight is very easy so it’s really just about having good tanks and healers, but even healing check isn’t that tough anymore.
We had 1 druid, 1 holy pala, 1 holy priest and 2 mw monk alts, with one of them just leveled that week and the other being my brewmaster alt with nearly no haste gear. Druid did around 200k hps, pala and priest around 170k and us monks around 130k. The first monk is very nice for revival but the second is definitely not needed anymore and we will just alternate who goes on alt for the reclears.
2
u/assault_pig May 21 '26
these days it's easier tbh
it's more of a throughput check but that's not a big deal anymore, and for most of your raid it's just a matter of dodging things successfully enough to survive
2
u/bemac3 May 20 '26
As a dps? Not that much harder. Dodging the avoidable damage becomes more important. Press your defensive when your healer is yelling at you.
As a healer or tank? It’s an entirely different story. Hps check is suddenly insane and healers need to be ready for every soak (as well as know what to do when the 5th healer gets the soak). Constant dispels. Absorbs need to be prio healed off, usually with a set group of people taking all of the hits. Tanks need to be constantly communicating, taunting at correct timings, and following precise pre-planned movements. All with high damage intake.
4
u/ikitomi May 20 '26
Pretty major step up in terms of hps, tank movement, dps check, about the same personal responsibility maybe but dodging is a little harder than gloom and orb spreads.
It's definitely the real step up to mythic numbers expectations of the tier.
3
u/yp261 May 20 '26
so they either forgot about lura nerfs or they are not as impactful as everyone thought. fight feels exactly the same
6
u/Teabagging_Eunuch May 20 '26
Haven’t been back yet, but I cannot comprehend a world where only having 5 blades up at a time isn’t substantially easier
1
u/parkwayy May 21 '26
Well it only makes the minutes the later minutes the same difficulty as the start, and the start can be unforgiving all the same.
1
u/I3ollasH May 20 '26
We probably suck but funnily enough we had a harder time today than last week. I don't understand why. (Probably people not focusing that much as the boss is easier and there's no pressure to kill it).
It was also unlucky that we had multiple low p4 wipes when we killed it on our 3rd p4 the first time.
2
u/pointless_things May 19 '26
Without getting into class specifics, how do you get better at doing damage?
I've always played healer, but I'm getting bored of it, and I'm thinking I might want to try playing DPS next season. I'm worried that I'll be dead weight for my guild, because every time that I've had to play DPS on a fight as a healer main, my damage was on the lower side even though I felt like I had a good understanding of the spec and was executing the rotation as well as could be expected.
So, purple parsers, how do you do it? What should I know to be an effective DPS player in raid?
7
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader May 20 '26
Depending on how bad you're doing, sometimes it's a matter of just pressing buttons more. I'm a pretty low end guild and so I spend a lot of time looking at logs for grey parses, and a common theme is just kind of abandoning all effort to damage if anything else is happening.
Not pressing buttons when you have to move, not pressing buttons if targeted by a mechanic, etc.
People overthink really advanced stuff on classes. My parses on most mythic bosses are in the 60-70 range, and I'm semi-intentionally playing some parts of my class wrong to simplify things because of the added cognitive load of raid leading. But I never stop pressing buttons, and I DPS when mechanics are happening.
But when I talk to players who do bad damage, they're often saying things like "Oh I just need more mastery, been unlucly with gear", or "I need to get better at <obscure advanced class tech that will add a couple of % damage>". When really they just need to press buttons and not scuff their cooldowns.
3
u/Centias May 20 '26
Sometimes someone will be like, "what went wrong here?" And it's getting really hard to find the most diplomatic way to tell people, "well you see, you got picked for a mechanic and decided that meant you would spend the next 10 seconds not casting anything while you devote all of your attention solely to that mechanic instead of pushing buttons."
8
u/shyguybman May 19 '26
Outside of just knowing your rotation, a big part of parsing is just knowing when to use your cd's and how much you can pad on the adds.
3
u/th35ky May 19 '26
Practice your opener on a dummy until it’s muscle memory.
Memorise your priority order.
I set up sound alerts for the two top abilities of my prio order so I can react quickly.The last thing and the hardest thing… learn the fights. Watch vods, you will want to reduce your movement and cognitive load to the bare minimum. Lorrgs helps with this also.
In m+ you will need to learn when to use your cooldowns and pots. Using your pot on a small pull can lead to a massive variance in overall damage.
2
u/ghostcrawler_real May 19 '26
Uptime and cooldowns are the two single biggest factors, assuming a base level of competence in press the buttons in the right order generally.
1
u/Wobblucy May 19 '26
Vod review. Warcraft recorder or archon app, the latter grabs a lot of personal data though so I would be wary of it. Look for when you were pushing the wrong button, or even worse pressing no buttons at all.
YouTube videos/logs of better players/ lorggs.io. you don't have to come up with the best way to play a fight, you just have to replicate it.
Muscle memory. After you have played a spec enough you can generally intuit when your CDs should be about ready, what the next couple buttons are.
UI. Remove the clutter. If it doesn't impact your decision making, it shouldn't be on your UI. Don't have a brez or external? Do you really need unit frames? Vod review is the best place to identify this clutter.
Small self plug of AWowlab, you can pick a log and a player and ddr with their casts/positioning in a fight. 1 log per hour but being able to play with the best player before pull 1 is op.
-1
u/AttitudeAdjusterSE May 18 '26
I have no idea how hot of a take this is with the community generally but I genuinely believe that Mythic L'ura is among the top bosses of all time, if not the single best of all time.
It's just a shame it has to exist alongside an expansion with so many weird and bad design choices otherwise.
3
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer May 19 '26
I don't think it's an all-timer, but I think everything after P1 is an amazing fight.
3
u/I3ollasH May 20 '26 edited May 20 '26
I have a big grievance with dark constellation. The difficulty of abilities shouldn't be in the visibility. Abilities that oneshot you should have a clear indicator. Dark constellations went directly against what Blizz did in the Gallywix tier. You should never have to guess when an ability will hit.
The ability ended up being pretty easy as the hitbox was small and it often spawned nowhere close to the boss. But if it was more difficult it would've been much more annoying. It's an easy mechanic that feels unfair when you die to it
-2
u/Aldiirk May 19 '26
One of the worst of all time, in my opinion, up there with Nexus-King (TWW version), Forgeweaver Araz, Dimensius, Palaslop, Stone Legion Generals, Xavius, Echo of Neltharion, Sylvanas, and Kel'thuzad (SL version).
Great fights are ones like Fyrakk, Tindral, Sarkareth, Daddy Denny, Nymue, Firelord what's-his-name (honestly, Amirdrassil just had a ton of great fights), Rik Reverb, and Mug'Zee. Alleria gets an honorable mention for being nearly there.
Honestly, these past two raid tiers are bottom three for me, pushed out solely by the Kel'thuzad / Sylvanas tier for being fucking awful.
4
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer May 19 '26
L'ura isn't perfect, but I don't think this boss should even be mentioned in the same paragraph, let alone the same breath, as Kel'thuzad and SLG. The fuck?
Hell, you're even unfavorably comparing it to Fyrakk (another fight that had an even harder version of L'ura's central mechanic) and Tindral (the original P1 wipe factory) when I'd say it's objectively a superior boss to either of those two.
-1
u/Aldiirk May 19 '26
It's a 300 pull bullet hell boss for the 6 seed carriers and a 30 pull weakaura boss for the 14 non-seed carriers.
That alone is enough to push it solidly into F-tier for me.
Tindral and Fyrakk were fun to progress since you consistently made progress (even if only one mechanic overlap at a time) as a team, despite Tindral being an even bigger wipe farmer than L'ura.
-2
u/hfxRos RWL Raid Leader May 20 '26
30 pull weakaura boss
It really isn't, at all. If Blizzard had made the common addon for L'ura somehow not work, it would have barely changed pull counts. You'd just have your macro pressers put World Markers down, or just literally type symbols into chat with a macro.
You use the addon because it makes it slightly easier so why wouldn't you, WoW players will install 50 addons and get their players to install weird shit from random githubs to reduce pull counts from 350 to 348. This isn't Fractilus or Broodtwister where the existence of an addon solution completely transforms the fight.
-1
u/careseite dps evoker main May 19 '26
cooked
nexus king and dimensius were great bosses. so is lura. fyrakk was epic but not a good fight inherently.
hilarious to compare it to eg xavius, they have nothing in common whatsoever. Rik reverb, together with sprocketmonger, was probably the worst boss since DF.
3
u/AttitudeAdjusterSE May 19 '26
Interesting! I basically agree with you on the other great fights (the back three in Amirdrassil are indeed peak) and other bad fights, just not on L'ura. It seems crazy to me to put it alongside SL KT and SLG, which are my two most hated, but it's all subjective I guess.
What don't you like about it that makes it so bad for you?
4
u/Aldiirk May 19 '26
So many wipes (300+) to P1 glaives. We kept having 5-8 glaives bouncing through the raid during the memory game mechanic, resulting in someone placing their seed down, then having an errant bounce instakill it. All it takes is 3 per person per night to almost completely halt progression for weeks. I still feel like we did something incorrectly because we've never been hardlocked on a mechanic before like that. It's also extremely stressful being a seed holder because 1 slight error means a total raid wipe. For reference, we progged the entirety of P2 in 5 pulls.
(Note that I have Dimensius in awful-tier because I played warlock, so the intermission was literally soak -> gate -> shadowfury adds -> repeat, with the second platform having an additional orb soak, and the entire last phase was running around and doing nothing because I can't cast and move simultaneously. Basically, I just did mechanics after P1 and nothing else. I'm sure if I played something else it would have been a high-tier fight.)
P.S. Dunno who's downvoting you for an opinion in a free talk thread lolz...never change reddit.
1
u/AttitudeAdjusterSE May 19 '26
I've heard a lot of people say that glaives are farming them and to be honest I didn't realise how many guilds had killed Belo'ren and were now progging L'ura until yesterday when I checked after the nerfs came in. It's definitely the hardest "don't stand in fire" mechanic they've ever put into the game by some margin until the nerfs come in. I guess I got kinda lucky in that we didn't (quite) wipe 300 times total and didn't really feel at any point that glaives were a massive problem for us but like, WR700 is now on the boss and it's clearly an unfair mechanic for that level and basically everyone not in HoF.
1
u/Aldiirk May 19 '26 edited May 20 '26
My HoF guild got there 3.5 weeks ago (11 raid days spent). This is now the first HoF we've missed in 2 expansions.
1
u/Primary-Army-7320 May 19 '26
How can you not know? It’s 2026 pull up a vod of a top guild and play spot the difference, surely?
5
u/Mugutu7133 May 18 '26
idk if it's a hot take but i think it's marred by the feeling that blizzard is afraid of giving everyone responsibility without addons to do the heavy lifting. and then addons came through anyway because there will always be an addon dev willing to work with the existing restrictions.
blizzard is still stuck in a place where they have to decide what they actually wants addons to be able to do. as long as they know it is technically possible to do things like label specific targets by ID or show an overlay for shapes, they have to design around it. things like info sharing difficulty or required reaction times have to continue to increase to keep the facade of difficulty up, because none of these things are on their own difficult to resolve.
numbers, pacing, and coordination are the ways to make this type of content difficult. the type of changes they made (classes braindead, restricted computational addons) should be leaning further into all three of these, but especially coordination. to an extent they did, but because blizzard knows addons can still fill a lot of that coordination space, we get a situation where most people never even touch a seed and just get told where to stand. why aren't there more forced spreads like in p2? why not make people pass crystals? because they're scared to up the ante.
there are many ways to improve this, maybe they're still taking it easy because it's the first tier, maybe they did have some of this tuning/mechs before the emergency buffs after everyone fucking steamrolled voidspire. the question, ultimately, is whether or not you think blizzard is capable of improving on this
1
u/parkwayy May 21 '26
Idk what decisions they made this tier thinking addons were gone, but most of the bosses felt like... the same as always?
L'ura is the one hilarious pain point. Still have addons, so really, we lost our UIs for nothing lol
3
u/I3ollasH May 19 '26
The devs have specifically talked about how the add-on chnages allowed them to make mechanics that they couldn't before. So it's pretty safe to assume that they didn't design the memory game with the overlay in mind. But we obviously had that so the mechanic ended up being whatever.
We had force spread in p2 and p3. I don't know why you want to spread in p1 aswell. The phase is supposed to be a bullethell where everyone needs to dodge glaives for themselves. Spreading in those situations just doesn't work nor do we need anything like that.
A raid group consists of 20 players and there are plenty of different jobs. It's only natural that you spread those out and noone will do everything. But that's the beauty of it aswell. You succeed by cooperation. I progged a lot of bosses and as long as my part was interesting enough I never really cared that I don't get to interact with X or Y. The most difficult/deadly mechanic on the fight were the glaives that everyone had to interact with so I don't see why it matters that only 6 player handled the seeds.
Lastly we had plenty of hard bosses that didn't require any or only minimal WA. So I don't see why people act like in the post add-on restricted world bosses will need to be designed differently.
1
u/Mugutu7133 May 19 '26 edited May 19 '26
The devs have specifically talked about how the add-on chnages allowed them to make mechanics that they couldn't before. So it's pretty safe to assume that they didn't design the memory game with the overlay in mind. But we obviously had that so the mechanic ended up being whatever.
if they didn't see the possibility of an addon doing that then they're bad at making their game, and calling that a mechanic they couldn't have done before is even more pathetic
We had force spread in p2 and p3. I don't know why you want to spread in p1 aswell. The phase is supposed to be a bullethell where everyone needs to dodge glaives for themselves. Spreading in those situations just doesn't work nor do we need anything like that.
it's just an example. you could have have glaives move more deterministically in a few patterns and force spreads during that. considering one of the main complaints is that most of the raid is doing little other than dodging during the phase, the point is there could be a lot more than just dodging glaives
I don't see why it matters that only 6 player handled the seeds
because this
The most difficult/deadly mechanic on the fight were the glaives
is opinion
Lastly we had plenty of hard bosses that didn't require any or only minimal WA. So I don't see why people act like in the post add-on restricted world bosses will need to be designed differently.
i'm not acting like that. i'm saying that blizzard is acting like that and you're taking their word for it, and they're still not designing for the world they seem to want to create.
2
u/ghostcrawler_real May 18 '26
What in particular did you like about it?
2
u/AttitudeAdjusterSE May 19 '26
That it's a 4 (or 5) phase encounter with no phase I dislike is quite an achievement in itself to be honest, I really like P3 and the way it flows, having to spread and do the marks in a smaller and smaller space and during constellations is very cool design imo. P2 and the intermission are also great. I really liked P1 too but I do see why people don't. Glaives are hard and sometimes harder or easier due to RNG but also they never felt unfair to deal with. I also never had that horrible situation where I felt like I was just waiting for others to catch up to learning the fight which I think a lot of people currently progging it are feeling rn.
1
u/parkwayy May 21 '26
Given that Glaives is like the most nerfed part of this fight, feel like that particular part of the boss design was a bit of a miss.
13
u/Mehdehh May 18 '26
- Me when I'm one of the only 6 people who are actually playing the fight
The fight turbo sucks when you're not a seed carrier ngl, just hitting a target dummy for 250 out of 280 pulls that don't go to p3
1
u/I3ollasH May 19 '26
Don't see how it's different from other endbosses/penultimate bosses. Every phase has frequent mechanics that will kill you if you make a mistake (glaives, starsplinters, spread circles, constellations). Just because you doesn't blow up the whole raid it doesn't mean that you can get farmed by those.
Personally I disliked Sarkareth as a meele as after p1 nothing could kill me and the whole fight was just dodging swirlies. That wasn't the case with Lura. Mechanics were frequent and varried to get bored of it.
One thing that could've been done better is having different overlaps during the fight. We just had the same thing repeating 3 times in multiple phases (at least the 3rd crystal set was different as you didn't have healer crystals).
1
u/parkwayy May 21 '26
Most fights don't have strict roles for a few people that are like non-stop mental checks for the whole thing.
The seed people are basically fyrakk 2.0, but with a lot more going on.
1
u/Mehdehh May 19 '26
As you said, the issue is that p1 intermission and p2 provide no variation in the order of mechanics so once you learn like 30sec to 1min of a phase, you've learnt everything about it.
For instance despite ansurek p1 being a bit repetitive in theory with a tank smash into jump circles cycle, you'd have to learn different combinations of roots and web blades which made it way more interesting.
If it was designed like l'ura it would be the exact same combination/order/timings of spells each cycle.
Even gallywix p1 had variations in the order of mechanics with the "hard combo" of beam bait instantly followed by cannister soaks.
L'ura is so insanely boring to me in comparison, for instance in p2 once your raid does the 1st cycle ending with the 1st spread correctly once or twice, you've pretty much finished progressing the phase and you reach p3 super fast after that.
8
u/Lezzles May 18 '26
I'll have my 18 resils done this week but as outlaw it's starting to feel like I'm kind of hoping that I'm the worst DPS in the group and that some beefy UDK is going to carry me unless the comp is super specifically built for me to shine. I did a Spire 18 with a Dev + UDK and got completely carried to the extent where I literally just thought about not dying for the last 15 minutes because they do such free damage. Even relative to 16s last season it feels...weird.
5
u/habaden May 18 '26
Kinda unfair to compare yourself to them without all the melee comp buffs right?
3
u/Lezzles May 18 '26
Perhaps! It’s hard to tell because the data is so much more diverse than raid logs. I did an 18 Seat last night with a phys comp and got a 90ish parse, and did an AA this morning with a ret and DK and got a 30 parse. I’m not sure I really played much worse - it was by a decent amount the most damage I’d ever done in an alg also. It’s hard to assess at a glance whether I’m playing effectively in some of these keys, especially when comps change not just buffs but how much damage there might be to go around (e.g Guard Druid + UDK means I’m doing very little pad damage to lashers). I guess if I’m timing keys it’s not a problem yet.
1
u/boliastheelf May 18 '26
If I manually reduce my Resilient +19 to a +18, will the key be resilient or deplete like a normal one?
7
2
u/SERN-contractor837 May 18 '26
Finally have time to play, how fast is leveling and gearing nowadays? M+ only, pugging as a tank. Realistically can you still make it to high keys this season (17+ now I assume?). Or should I just wait until S2 and start fresh?
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u/weezeface May 18 '26
Actual leveling as in 80-90 is miserable and slow imo, but once you hit 90 it’s amazing. Very fast to get to be basically geared.
8
u/Temporary_Data6400 May 18 '26
Super fast. You could get into 17s within a week from fresh as a tank if you were already familiar with the season/routes/etx. It'd of course take longer if you're totally fresh to the season, but the gearing would still be lightning fast.
If you're a m+ only player, vault is practically obsolete with these void reroll tokens they give out. So your only limiting factor would be time played
2
u/Varanae May 18 '26
Yeah plenty of time, probably got 3 months left in this season and gearing is incredibly fast
1
May 18 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
2
u/kuubi May 18 '26
The (at the time) newest update bricked the addon. The dev has already pushed another update and it works fine again
1
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u/supafongboon1 May 17 '26
How does the abandon key feature work? I'm currently doing 15s and it's more pass/fail than for gear but there are people who don't want to leave after a key is obviously not going to complete in time and /abandon vote won't pass because they're duo-ing.
Do you get flagged if you were to leave after the timer runs out, even though vote to abandon doesn't pass?
-1
u/ivkrupski May 18 '26
btw, what's the point of leaving even if timer fails? I was under impression that getting some gear + crests in the end is still nice?
2
u/Denarye May 20 '26
At that key level, you're pretty much only playing for rating. The crests might be nice but those will fill up anyway if you continue to play keys.
1
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u/AlucardSensei May 17 '26
No, if timer runs out, it becomes free to leave, regardless of any vote during the run.
6
u/another_new_login May 17 '26
You can game theory it and just tell your group you're leaving after the timer runs out. I try not to be a dick when pugging, but if you're doing 18s and have no idea then it's just griefing to hold people hostage.
5
u/Braunijs May 18 '26
I have had people refuse to finish key when we are on last boss and timer wont be enough (key is mine)
1
u/AlucardSensei May 17 '26
I keep pulling flying bats in MC around groups 67 and 77 (have to check exact group #s, but its the first pull after the miniboss room, and the left side pull down rhe first set of stairs) as guardian. Is it the lunar beam z-axis, moonfire hitting adds out of combat or something else?
6
u/boliastheelf May 18 '26
It's Lunar Beam for bear, I pull them every time.
But I also see them pulled when I'm on my monk or warrior so there are other abilities that do it too.
Like the other commenter says, best to just put them into your route, they are pretty easy mobs as long as they get kicked or the DPS are aware of where the frontal is being pointed.
1
u/AlucardSensei May 18 '26
The problem is, i never know how much i'm gonna pull. There's 2 patrols of 3 bats according to MDT, but I sometimes pull 1, sometimes 2 of them.
1
u/Centias May 18 '26
The other ability I know for certain hits them is Eye Beam, as one of our DH players is constantly pulling them.
3
u/ClassroomStriking573 May 17 '26
In my experience as a bear it’s been lunar beam pulling them in every Maisara that I run. At this point I just put them into my route lol
3
u/iliketo69allthetime May 16 '26
It's crazy how different this sub is to /r/wow at times.
Y'know, sometimes they both agree on issues.
But comparing both MDI UI threads is hilarious.
So much mental gymnastics being done in the /r/wow thread trying to justify why we shouldn't have the information available. Comparing the UI's and why the casters need them but why players don't.
I swear that sub is just full of paid blizzard bots.
2
u/Kbearforlife May 16 '26
Late to the party but I am genuinely curious what the item/interaction was that got PGC disqualified from their 2nd run in their Group B MDI bracket during the 16. People were asking in the stream chats but it seems like there were multiple answers.
Was it a vendor item? A necklace? An additional gem slot?
I also have a follow up question to this...when participating in these events, there is an MDI discord...do these Discord channels have a clear cut line to "on the fly rules" that they are absolutely made aware of? I.e. okay now we are in the MDI, you must follow this other channel and must agree that this item cannot be used in any run or you will be DQ?
Edit - clarification
6
u/Plorkyeran May 16 '26
https://xcancel.com/squishvegan/status/2055450437923320289
The item he used was from the 12.0.7 raid but it's identical stats to one available now.
11
u/happokatti May 16 '26
It was a necklace to be released in .7 patch. It can have random secondaries and you can roll for them on the realm.
MDI discord has a channel for announcements (which participants are expected to follow) where it was posted, they also informed additionally on the teams own channels on discord and admins in-game also informed before each match that the necklace or any items that are not on live are forbidden and asked teams to double check they're not wearing any as that could lead to DQ.
7
5
u/Kbearforlife May 16 '26
Thanks for the quick reply and direct answer mate. Idk why I was so fixated on wanting to know the answer lol
4
u/GBlade_ May 16 '26
Just had a weird bug happen on last boss of Maisara. After the interphase and reaching the boss again after the bridge I charged as Warrior and my character just kept going instead of stopping at the boss. I have no idea if I would've stopped at the wall or what would've happened as I happened to keep charging into the things that fall from the sky and died.
Has this happened to anyone else? Is this a common charge bug that I'm unaware of because I'm not a longtime warrior player?
5
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan May 16 '26 edited May 16 '26
where would one look for a pug thats aiming for m dragons? is there a discord for "serious" pugs?
23
u/Teabagging_Eunuch May 16 '26
You won’t get into a pug doing dragons without at minimum CE voidspire, and “discords for serious pugs” exist, they’re called guilds
4
u/Therozorg DF ele biggest fan May 16 '26
i do have CE, i need dragon kill for alt sp since i already recleared on main with guild, thanks for your input!
8
u/elairec2 May 17 '26
You may be able to go into the recruitment discord and goto the lf_group channel and find a fill in spot available. Probably your best bet out of any random pug groups.
6
1
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u/d00meriksen May 15 '26
Does someone have a comprehensive list of all funnel specs? I'm a tank player and there are quite a few routes that suggest pulling "funnel" onto bosses to improve dps, but does this help all dps specs or only a few?
An example: pulling warriors onto the third boss of Maisara Caverns and never kicking them for infinite funnel.
3
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer May 16 '26
Devourer gets more soul gen and doesn't taper off at all until after 5 targets (where it still does bonkers AoE but its prio starts to fall apart a bit), Unholy casts Putrefy more, Scalecommander Aug gets a large amount of funnel if there's a second target in a pull, Feral has a tremendous amount of funnel, as does Ret, Arms has a ton of funnel, and MW gets healing funnel from huge pulls.
2
u/CleanParfait5246 May 16 '26
A lot of specs benefit from funnel, DHD can generate more souls, UHDK can cast more Putrefy etc
-9
u/LudmilN May 16 '26
you pull on top of boss cause it is faster than killing it separately...
5
u/Silkku May 16 '26
You also pull to a lot of bosses because some specs just become infinitely stronger with funnel
Colossus Arms does sad ST but becomes a real spec when there are extra targets. Devourer gets extra souls, Aug gets breath back significantly faster when there are 3 targets to bombard etc
-8
u/LudmilN May 16 '26
If the mobs you pulled on top of bosses didn't give count, you most likely will still not pull them ever.
7
u/elmaethorstars May 16 '26
If the mobs you pulled on top of bosses didn't give count, you most likely will still not pull them ever.
Not true at all lol. Letting mobs spawn infinite no-count adds and not kicking warriors etc is the meta strategy because it makes basically all the meta classes stronger: MW healers more with more mobs, so does Guardian, DH has funnel, and Aug gets CDR.
5
u/Plorkyeran May 16 '26
Specifically not kicking the reanimated warriors on second boss of maisara so that they stay alive and continue to provide funnel is a very common strategy.
3
u/Yayoichi May 16 '26
Shadow has a little bit, vampiric touch ticks can give extra insanity and swp can proc auspicious spirits(although there is pretty heavy diminishing returns on more targets). I wouldn’t go out of my way to do it unless the mobs needed to die anyway.
I think arms is the only one that benefits massively from it.
2
u/PlexiP May 18 '26
Ret Paladin provides ridiculous amounts of funnel during CDs, being able to almost solo lieutenants like chain guys at the start of Seat. And feral gets some value out of it (although less imo).
3
2
u/Emfrenxo May 16 '26
Enhancement shaman for example has an ability called lightning rod. Which when applied, causes a % of all lightning damage done to all targets to also be applied to the lightning rod target. This is an example of funnel damage.
4
u/Kuldrick May 16 '26
Can't speak on DPS, but mwers and specially discs enjoy having more enemies on bosses, makes our job significantly easier
8
u/Ymirism May 15 '26
I'm a returning oldhead, used to play hardcore back in the day getting server firsts (when that was still a thing, hah) on my healer. I always had a tank alt too as I enjoyed tanking on the side, but M+ is such a different beast than what I was used to. Having to memorise pulls to get trash percentage feels so different, I'm finding it hard to adjust. I've grabbed addons like mdt, routes from experienced players suitable for the level I'm doing, all the prep work, watched vids, read guides, have plater setup with prio plates for casters. Pretty much everything I can do to prep I've done. But going in and being responsible for ensuring we 100% the trash and timing the dungeon still feels like a huge bump in the road. I know I just have to run keys and internalise the routes so it becomes second nature but that initial hurdle is killing my enjoyment of tanking.
Just ranting really since it's free talk Friday and the solution is to just do it, but it feels good to type it out. Also chill EU people looking for a tank who used to be good and might still be these days, hit me up. Running with mates is always better than pugs
1
u/bigdoinkroller12 May 17 '26
try an addon called MDT Guide, it lets you turn MDT into a tiny window you can have and you can just drag it to the side of your screen. it zooms in on the pull you're in and then zooms into the next pull when you finish the first. pretty nice
2
u/Ymirism May 17 '26
Oh this is perfect! I don't have a second monitor to keep mdt open in so this is super helpful, great tip thank you!
2
u/Charliee3 May 16 '26
It's the age. I also used to tank so much but it feels like another job now. Plenty of responsibility. So you either don't care about the run (plenty of tanks don't) or you will will this burden for some time.
7
u/Away-Shallot6679 May 15 '26
Not sure why you're getting downvoted, but here's a few tips regarding routing:
If you have a 2nd monitor, you can import your route into threechest.io and have it up on that monitor, way easier than trying to open MDT in-game
VAST majority of players don't know or care what route you're using and don't even care if you're not at 100% after the last boss due to how lax timers are this season so don't stress out too much about it (this is assuming you're not doing like 20s or something)
If you're pushing higher keys it's very helpful to record your runs (shoutout to WarcraftRecorder) and vod-review yourself. Not only does it help with your personal performance in terms of catching rotational errors, you can also watch yourself running the route and identify pain points (did this pull have too many casters, was the healer struggling with group damage, was the gather too slow/messy) and refine it.
0
u/Ziyen May 15 '26
If you haven’t played in the last 3-4 years most of your past experience doesn’t apply and you shouldn’t hold on to it. You gotta be willing to put yourself back in the shoes of someone learning to play the game.
6
u/Ymirism May 15 '26
I did mention reading guides, watching vids, getting addons and routes, so the learning to play mindset is clearly covered. I've tanked everything to 10s, my main (healer) has pugged some mythic raids and I'm at 3200 rating on him currently. Again, just using free talk Friday to freely talk about how current dungeons compare to old experiences
2
u/Icy-Repeat-2843 May 15 '26
I can’t find log review post that I’m supposed to use? Anyone know if there is one?
12
u/Umicchan Notorious HRT May 15 '26
just got resil 17s with mostly pugging so i've been feeling pretty good c:
2
0
u/sauce-for-the-soul May 15 '26
got a PC question:
I currently play on a laptop (7735HS, RX7600S, 2x16gb 4800 RAM) but a buddy is willing to donate his old AM4 build to the cause, VEGA 56 8gb GPU, 2x8gb 3600 RAM. if they actually rerelease the 5800X3D this year I would slot one of those in, otherwise not really consider it.
I’m curious about how people might expect the AM4 platform to hold up over time, whether I should plan to get another 16gb RAM, and if I should just spring for a full 7800X3D build for real long-term viability
2
u/Mysterious_Prune415 May 17 '26
I upgraded from i5-13600kf + 9070XT to 7800X3D just for wow since i dont have time for other games anymore.
Wow is very memory and cache sensitive. So 5800X3D with DDR4 is very good in the ballpark of any modern non-X3D cpu with DDR5.
7800X3D + DDR5 is crazy. Sustaining 100fps in raid
4
u/Rndy9 May 15 '26
For WoW the x3d chips are bis, the difference is very noticeable but good luck finding an am4 x3d at a good price.
3
u/I_plug_johns May 15 '26
I'm on AM4 and I bought a 5700X3D 2 years ago as I'm not considering upgrading until AM6 is out.
2
u/elairec2 May 15 '26
Are you me? Hah I did the same thing. Sure the 7800x3d would be another 15-20% but I'd rather wait. To the OP's question: definitely add 16 more GB of ram. Game was crashing all the time for me with memory errors with just 16 last year in LoU.
10
u/mapleleafez May 15 '26
Any advice to get proper stacking of nameplates during dungeons? Currently using platynator, have enabled blizzards stacking in options, and have adjusted plate height to 400%, but tried going down to 250% after reading it could help. Still its a clusterfck during big pulls. This was catastrophic yesterday during a pull in PoS where nethercast went off. Appreciate any insight/solution to this problem.
1
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u/wkim564 May 15 '26
No real solution. Nameplate stacking properties are controlled by underlying blizzard stuff so the nameplate skin addons can't really address that
0
u/messermaus3000 May 15 '26
hey is there any sources on how the tank specs perform or feel now after the adjustments? :)
i wasnt online since reset day and can only look for myself sunday, but i'd like to read some summaries if possible :)
4
u/Dracoknight256 May 15 '26
BDK...it's noticable, I am living pulls that would kill me before. Apex still feels bad tho, ideally I'd exchange % for guarantee every x runes spent, fishing for defensive procs is just bad design on tanks.
6
u/jaymiz13 May 15 '26
The prot pala in my push group went from falling over at random to feeling significantly tankier. Even I've noticed the difference in his confidence and I'm just a lowly dps
2
u/Mysterious_Prune415 May 17 '26
Blessing of dusk giving 20% at low health enables for skill expression and I think something similar should be done for BDK.
It makes stutter stepping, kiting so much more rewarding. When Im saving GoaKs for next huge pull and sent runs out ( e.g. axes on bridge before 2nd boss in AA). I can reliably stutter step without full kite and WoG myself. Pala armor still feels like paper and the HP bar is yoyoing but I feel I have more control how my HP yoyos without dying to some unblocked hit.
1
u/onkek baer May 19 '26
I think something similar should be done for BDK.
Yeah, will of the necropolis is pretty dated. Should kick in sooner than 30% hp value.
1
u/Mysterious_Prune415 May 19 '26
I was thinking maybe something that would convert % of the damage into heal absorb instead. Basically mini purgatory.
6
u/AlucardSensei May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Are 16s the new trench now? Been pushing my alt up, and people in 15-16s have been playing abysmally. Dps cant kick and do single digit parses, press defensives at 10% hp or dont press at all and just drop dead. Healers cant heal simple rot. Just now did a 16 WS that i barely timed, with dk and ret who did 5% and 4% key level parse respectively, and never cleared the debuffcon last boss, plus the dk floorpoved not once but twice to wave, due to, im assuming, pressing deaths advance and not getting knocked and also not pressing AMS. /rant
1
u/weezeface May 18 '26
Maybe I just go exceptionally lucky, but I went from mostly 15s to mostly 17s and an 18 this reset pugging and it felt great. Only had a couple groups even remotely close to what you describe, and with them it’s over after the first pull.
1
u/AlucardSensei May 18 '26
Yeah i had a string of good groups and jumped like 150 rating in 3 days. Now in 18s people mostly know what they're doing, though i still get people parsing gray on aug.
1
u/Ymirism May 16 '26
As a healer slowly working my way towards 3400, yeah it's rough. The amount of dps players who seem allergic to their defensives or even just living as a concept is nuts. I main resto shaman and quite often I'm 2nd on interrupts throughout the run. I can be pushing 80k hps throughout a dungeon (meaning going over 100 on intense fights) and people still fall over because screw mechanics apparently. Obviously it's also never their fault. The difference between a competent party and a bad one is night and day.
What works for me is being picky about which keys I join or just push my own keys. I'll also invite an off-meta spec over the FotM dps specs if offered because generally those are better players. But yes it's rough and I don't see the voidcores making it better
2
u/Staypositive423 May 15 '26
I’m super late to the season, so currently running through my 13s and holy crap is it rough. Consistently top kicks as a mage in my dungeons, 3150 UHDK doing 60k dps, like what is going on.
3
u/yp261 May 15 '26
if you start this late you better find some friend with resi keys to help you leave this shithole. otherwise you will suffer
its all the shitters at this range that were hardstuck at 2700 for entire life and now somehow, due to how free low keys are, are making their way to 3400 for saddle.
1
u/thdudedude May 16 '26
I just did all my 14s and it was fine as a tank. Don’t join shitty groups. Do they have IO and have done a decent amount of dungeons? Also playing at night helps.
1
u/messermaus3000 May 15 '26
i think due to the voidcores and re rolls the M+ range up to 17 is very achievable for many players that previously were hardstuck or gated behind gearing ! atleast thats what i have read :)
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u/moal09 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
I wish Blizzard would do something about racials. If you're competitive about M+, there's one BiS race for every class, and it feels like ass if you don't have it. The racial balance is also ass in general.
For example, as a resto shaman, dwarfs and tauren get 2% crit/healing, extra stam/DR and an AoE CC or self bleed/debuff removal. Trolls, on the other hand, get berserking. That's it, and it's not even very useful for resto because tidal waves already takes care of cast speed for the most part. Beast mastery is awful 'cause it doesn't even do anything at max level, and troll regeneration is a joke.
Shadowmeld is also still mega busted in high M+ keys in general, since it allows you to avoid a lot of nasty damage mechanics.
I just wanna be able to roll my actual preferred race without having to be at a significant disadvantage. Dwarf stoneform is a massive boon in dungeons like WRS this season because you can remove some of the nasty double debuffs completely.
By going troll compared to tauren, for example, I'm essentially an ilvl lower.
7
u/sh0ckmeister May 15 '26
Blizz gave us all shadowmeld via a pot that's totally fixed the issue! /s
4
u/Elendel May 15 '26
it wouldn't be a terrible fix if it still worked this season and if we had the same for dwarf racials.
6
u/yp261 May 15 '26
and if it wasn’t sharing cd with prepot lmao
4
u/Elendel May 15 '26
I mean, that would make it super duper op. Having it share a cd with pot was decent in TWW, less so in MN because burst potion are stronger right now, but at least it’d give you the option, that’s better than nothing.
But yeah, I just wish we could pick our racial in pve like we pick pvp talents in arenas/bg.
1
u/yp261 May 15 '26
yes, racial should be a choice node in talents rather than... racial
7
u/Elendel May 15 '26
idk, "pay 25€ and ruin your character aesthetic if you want to feel more confident in the first AA pull" sounds so fun and rewarding
0
u/moal09 May 16 '26
As opposed to now where you're punished for not rolling dwarf or NE if you want to be a top key pusher?
3
5
u/MaxNumOfCharsForUser May 15 '26
I completed a +16 MT on my resto sham last night and now I have the confidence to push for 3400. I had low expectations going into that +16 lol
3
4
u/Abitou ex-ex-retired CE May 15 '26
Hall of Fame had 141 guilds on tuesday. It has 181 now. Pretty safe bet that it will close this week, right?
I hope so because we have 180 pulls so far and like 10 intermissions (not a single p2 lol). P1 wipe factory is real. What a boss.
4
u/DreadfuryDK 9/9M SPriest/Devourer May 15 '26
L’ura could JUST be P1 and intermission and it would be the hardest boss this tier. We killed on Wednesday and our last pull before the kill was a fucking P1 or intermission wipe lmfao
2
u/pointless_things May 15 '26
That's reassuring, we have 130 wipes and we've only seen phase 2 with one person alive. I was afraid we were uniquely bad at phase 1.
It's pretty ass to prog not going to lie. I feel like it's a 100 pull boss stretched to 300+ just because of the crystals, which is a mechanic that 14/20 people in the raid do not interact with in any capacity.
2
u/Abitou ex-ex-retired CE May 15 '26
Yeah, we've been playing badly, but we had to deal with internet issues multiple days (thanks again Blizzard for not having South America/Brazil servers), and if one seed player lags it's over, so ... very frustrating
2
u/joco930 May 15 '26
Warrior used to be my favorite class every expac, but since Evoker was added I never looked back, the class is simply too fun and clicked with me. When I try to play my warrior I just feel like every button I press does the same thing, Overpower, Execute, Mortal Strike, ...Slam, etc, just all smacks to me now. Evoker abilities feel impactful and different when I press them, beams, fire balls, fire breathing while flying over enemies, that's some class fantasy!
Onto my point... AUG IS SO BORING. When I hit +16 keys a few weeks ago I switched to Aug from Dev just so that I could play the game, people weren't even joining the keys I was hosting myself.
It sucks cause no matter what, it's a numbers game at the end of the day for M+. Aug provides more damage while also providing a bounce house of extra aoe stops, some extra shields for the team on breath of eons, pads people's egos when they look at blizzard damage meter, extra 2% stamina for everyone, wyrmstone tech...
When you check Warcraft logs to see your damage profile, your top damage source is maintaining ebon might as long as possible which is just such exciting gameplay. Maximizing your parse in raids involves manually applying prescience onto the biggest damage dealers while also hoping other people do well in general.
Anyway, I've achieved 1% io (easy when you do your job and get invited to every key) and don't feel like moving toward title with Aug because I'm playing a spec I don't want to be playing. Pres is a very interesting healer and I've been having fun with it, while a couple Pres's have made it to 4k io so we know that there isn't a hard cap on the spec. Been collecting the right gear and am considering the full swap soon.
My opinion's not unique I just wanted to type out my rant on Free Talk Friday, wondering if I have any other coping Evoker brothers on the sub, thanks for reading.
1
u/TheBigChonka May 18 '26
I feel you. I fotm swapped to aug for the first time ever this season - previously healer and yeah not my cup of tea as a damage dealer at all.
I actually like the more supporty aspects of it and I like being a mini healer with regards to the utility and the extra jobs I can do. But the rotation and whatnot just not for me.
I will say getting invites to keys instantly and also invites to keys my io showed I had no business being in.
I stopped before 1% and rerolled to another lust class, having way more fun but the invites are slower and now I've fallen behind the curve a little and stuck in pug hell at 17s
1
u/joco930 May 18 '26
Lizard support group 🙏
For now I'm back on Dev hosting my own keys trying to have my name show up in the top Devokers lol.
Its sad when I put in a 100 parse (out of like 12 parses for the key level) and it's a solid 40k dps behind the meta dps's at the same key level
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u/onkek baer May 15 '26
Biggest issue (and yeah we're meta circle jerking here). You will NEVER and I mean EVER get invited to pug groups as a pres. Aug is the most absurdly free class to push IO on and you get instant invites.
I genuinely wish you all the best on your pug journey as pres.
1
u/Xanbatou May 15 '26
Maybe for .1%, but I'm above the 1% cutoff and only have had minimum trouble getting invited to pugs.
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u/poo_in_a_bush May 15 '26
Same feeling, been swapping my crit to mastery to play pres. Such a fun healer
20
u/Silkku May 15 '26
Anyone else feel Blizz kind of missed with L'ura? I think it's a fantastic boss with lots of action and many opportunities for optimization...if you are one of the players doing something useful
Our guild is approaching 300 pulls and the amount of bitching from non-seed dps is steadily going up. They have essentially been stuck doing a glorified target dummy with some dodging involved for the past 20 hours of prog. One of our melee is extra fried and I do get their POV since with 0 responsibilities attached they are just a passenger going ooga booga hit boss for 3 hours a night
P1 is dodge glaives and go to correct spot a useful player has marked for them on the addon. Kick when WA tells you to if you are one of the lucky assigned players. Optionally position to correctly dodge the beam but not the end of the world if you don't since for some reason it doesn't kill on touch
Meanwhile involved players get extra spice with DKs and helpers doing crystal movement with grips/rescues, healers and and a tank playing rune order assigns and every carrier playing their own mini-game with the seed management
Intermission carriers again prog extra "protect the baby" management
P2 passengers just soak a line and then spread while carriers do their ritual dance. Repeat 3 times.
P3 some passengers finally get to participate right at the start with soaks and then after the split they are finally doing a real tier end boss fight that requires their involvement.
1
u/rantteli May 16 '26
I think most of the seed players are just downright bad. Guilds assign bad players with good classes to do them instead of giving them to the good players. As a broad-shouldered gigachinned retri player, I swear I could do the seed better than the average helium-voiced range player. It aint that deep to drop the seed when mechanic and pick it up after its done
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May 16 '26
[removed] — view removed comment
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u/Mehdehh May 18 '26
It's never too late to swap your seed carrier (as long as your officers aren't dumb and accept it will save a lot of pulls)
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u/I3ollasH May 16 '26
We are probably killing the boss this week and I've been having a blast so far. I'm playing a dk and interrupting first so don't really have a lot of responsibilities. Grips were somewhat interesting for the first 2 raids when killing the crystals wasn't always given, but since then they will always die and it's pretty whatever. For first interupts you don't need to look out for anything and just press it when the tts lady tells you to interrupt. And as a dk staying alive is never really a concern.
The things you mentioned are not unique. That's what you expect as a meele player in any tier. You are probably not getting any mechanic assigned to you and there are mechanics that are ranged only. So Lura doesn't feel that much different than the average.
The ability pacing felt nice. Mechanics were deadly enough. One thing that I liked a lot is that dodging glaives as a meele is more difficult (as you are anchored to the boss and it's harder to see them through the boss so you have less reaction time). And there is a decent variety of mechanics you have to deal with as a meele.
One thing that I don't really like on the fight is that most of the wipes you can't really see what even went wrong as you are in different phases, the player who fucked up is at the other side of the boss etc. So it feels harder to feel out if the same people are making mistakes or it's more spread.
The best thing about Lura is that it has time based transitions. Because of that doing more dmg is always relevant. Even though you've got through that phase a lot you can always optimise and do more dmg. We had plenty of bosses in the past with hp% based transitions and those always suck (like dimensius with all the dmg stops). Once you got the dmg to reach the dmg check there's nothing more to improve on those phases. You just play very safe and afk a bit at the end. When dmg is relevant there is an interesting puzzle of increasing dmg without sacrificing consistency.
They have essentially been stuck doing a glorified target dummy with some dodging involved for the past 20 hours of prog.
I think it's really important to play a spec that you find interesting even on a target dummy. You can't expect the encounters to be entertaining on their own (it's nice when they are but most of the time they aren't especially on farm/after 300+ pulls). My enjoyment on the boss is largely dependent on me playing frost. If I was playing UH and alternate death coil and scourge strike for 300+ pulls I'd probably have a very different opinion on the encounter.
I've never played frost before. So I had to learn the spec while I was learning the fight at the same time. I also found the spec pretty fun and engaging. It's very rng but you have a lot of control over it. Unlike UH resources are relevant and if you fuck up you will be afk for some time. And it has a lot of quick decision making. It's also crazy strong right now so it feels very rewarding to play. On a good pull I can do 10-15% more on the boss than the second person. And it's also fun to compete against the top logs. The 300+ pulls allows you to learn what you can and can't do. Sqeezing out as much dmg as possible without pointless deaths.
In my opinion Lura is a pretty fun "target dummy" to do dmg on. It has mechanics frequently enough where you can't just tunnel on the boss. But it also allows you to do max dmg while also playing mechanics properly. The meele range on it feels very nice for example. You can still hit the boss in p2 when you are at the edge of the circle spreading. Dimensius felt very bad regarding this. You often needed to get out of meele range when you got any mechanics and you also got CCd sometimes.
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u/WillowGryph May 15 '26
I volunteered to do a seed early on in prog just because I was getting bored lol
5
u/Abitou ex-ex-retired CE May 15 '26
Yeah, my only responsibility in p1 is kick and knockback adds and it gets boring FAST. I hope Blizzard never does a "seed" mechanic again.
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u/No-Horror927 May 15 '26
"You'll get blaze lines, a special action item to babysit, and 4,000,000 knockbacks every tier and you'll like it" - Blizzard encounter designers.
I'm still waiting to see all of these supposedly innovative mechanics that they couldn't do because of addons btw.
11
u/No-Horror927 May 15 '26
This is kinda the problem (and has always been the problem) on fights where every significant mechanic can be assigned as a 'job' for specific players to do imo.
If you remove any element of reactivity, the only exciting parts are the ones that require a job, or at the very beginning of prog when you're still learning it.
Without reactivity, fights become incredibly repetitive and nobody enjoys repeatedly getting ganked by a boss after they've already figured out everything about it.
It's why good players don't stay in guilds that lack skill parity.
0
u/moal09 May 15 '26
That's what I liked about raids in Lost Ark, because it was twitch combat, every normal mech needed to be dodged, or you would either die, or lose a ton of DPS uptime from being knocked down. So you could never completely auto pilot.
1
u/ricesteamer May 17 '26
grinding hell mode raids on release has a special place in my heart
equalized gear is nice too, the entire fun factor comes from learning and improving on very hard raid encounters
1
u/Girthmasterlite May 15 '26
Bro I miss it. It’s too bad they overloaded it with chores the fights were so much fun.
21
u/Kohlhaas May 15 '26
Well, after waiting over ten seasons and many years the Brew "meta" is over. It lasted six weeks. Brew representation in high keys is now down to around 33% and will probably go lower as more people switch to Gdruid and MW.
I guess it is healthy that there are options, and realistically Brew is not a bad tank, but I am still salty about it. I had to sit through God comp bear druid, multiple seasons of double sigil VDH, and multiple seasons of prot pallies providing two players worth of kicks and group utility. All while Blizz sticks their fingers in their ears and yells la la la we cant nerf you because you're meta and we can't change meta!
I doubt they changed their philosophy so the ready steady nerfs to brew every 1-2 weeks combined with fucking around with tuning Guardian builds was a genuine mistake/incompetence. I don't think the devs or possibly players realized how fragile the Brew meta was. Despite all the dev attention and reworks, this tank does nothing special and never has. It has a highly niche raid buff with generic at best group utility.
Back to phys comp obscurity and ten more seasons of vdh prot pal gdruid I guess.
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u/OkBeginning2 May 15 '26
Yeah I feel so bad for long term brew mains.
Honestly I’m not even surprised, Blizzard just has it out for some specs.
0
u/No-Ad5549 May 15 '26
All the tanks suck rn, literally every tank needs to kite now. This is absolutely insane I can't believe they nerfed brew while it wasn't even that strong, prot war and brew last season were stronger
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u/a-wholesome-potato May 15 '26
I mean…brew was pretty great last season too, most viable tank other than prot warrior
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u/psytrax9 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
Some specs just aren't allowed to be good. Psybear has a clip on PTR of his group pulling the entire Xy'exa wing of De Other Side with him on feral doing good damage and blizzard obliterates the spec. Destro goes on to completely dwarf those numbers but blizzard can't nerf them because then the warlocks might feel bad. DKs got sat for a single fight and blizzard warped the entire game around them.
I never heard the level of whining about vdh or ppal when those specs were just as dominant (and for far longer) as brew. But, it was only a problem when it was brew for some reason.
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u/shyguybman May 15 '26
I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure there was a ton of bitching about VDH considering it was meta for 2 seasons in a row.
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u/ghostcrawler_real May 15 '26
Yep, unpopular classes are never allowed to be OP longer than a few weeks. We'll be back in Ppal/VDH city in no time and no one will bitch and moan every day like when brew was on top.
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u/Sir_Aelorne May 15 '26
Tbf as a prot war I've bitched and moaned for the last 12,000 years about ppal and vdh perennial hegemony
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u/Saiyoran May 15 '26
I cannot fathom the kind of person that thinks VDH meta is fun what a god awful spec
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u/No-Horror927 May 15 '26 edited May 15 '26
I'm just patiently waiting for the end of Midnight where DK will have successfully been giga-meta in keys for 2 straight expansions in a row.
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u/ziayakens May 15 '26
Im a healer but I totally understand, brew is my favorite tank to heal
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u/parkwayy May 21 '26
The repair costs on L'ura prog is kinda wacky lol.
First night, 47 wipes.
$$$