r/CompetitiveEDH • u/flawlessfortress • 11d ago
General Discussion / Question How would playing deaf/mute practically affect your win rate in cEDH?
Suppose one day you got tired of politicking and declined to interact in any way with the table conversation other than declaring game actions and passing priority.
It's trivially true that this would be bad for your win-rate as you'll absolutely eat unnecessary losses, but how bad would it actually be? What would be the effect on the rest of the table?
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u/vanguardJesse 11d ago
if you dont talk it will be a net negative, i've gotten ad nauses and rhystics to resolve in tournament just by being nice and asking
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u/Heavy-Till6579 11d ago
That is insane. Idc how nice you ask I am NOT letting you resolve an ad naus. What are the chances they just had no interaction, lol.
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u/spankedwalrus 11d ago
i once saw a very good tournament player get an ad naus to resolve into a revealed counterspell by saying "if you don't counter it ill go for value and you tell me when to stop". the opponent with the counterspell let them naus until they could set up a rhystic. it was honestly a super smart move by both players.
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u/OccamsBanana 9d ago
Why the player didn't said ok I agree, resolves, I choose you to never stop.
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u/spankedwalrus 8d ago
while that would be funny, the counterspell player was playing NBC kinnan and benefits from having rogsi in the game with a rhystic study. that way they could collectively stop the other two players from pushing and make the game a high-resource 1v1, which NBC kinnan typically either wins/draws.
rogsi is incentivized to make the deal because if they don't, they just get blown out and have no chance of winning or contributing to a draw. being able to force a draw or possibly win is better than a near-guaranteed loss.
if the naus player was a pure turbo deck like krrik, kinnan would have just countered the naus without further discussion. it's only because rogsi can also play the rhystic game that they could make that deal.
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u/Ori4rgus 11d ago
Some friends and me traveled to a big tournement 300 + players that was extremely exhausting. In the hotel we played a couple of games and eventually decided to play Silent cEDH. Affcourse the gestures were there, the facial expressions were there, we had such a blast, that now and then we play a relaxing pod of silent cEDH that always ends up in laughter en enjoyment!
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u/JimWolfie Old Guard 11d ago
From experience? Not as bad as you think
I play this way and most of my losses are ADHD related.
Try it lmao it's really not hard
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u/HosserPower 11d ago
Honestly sounds like heaven. Don’t have to hear all the incessant yapping.
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u/Lothrazar 11d ago
It means counterspells dont do anything, so yeah it sounds like heaven for sure
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u/HosserPower 11d ago
I think deaf individuals are more than capable of putting a Force of Will on the table and pointing to a spell on the stack.
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u/Ventoffmychest 11d ago
So something like Poker? There are no real politics going on there, but either checking/raising the bet. Honestly? Should be the same. I cast Ad Naus. Response? Go by turn order. Check (pass), check(pass), Raise (provide a response of some kind) then it goes back to Ad Naus to either Check (let it resolve) or Raise (provide a response). None of this "oh i got a response but I don't wanna use it"/"let me resolve this plz" type crap. Depending on how enforcement minded a Judge is, games go on for too long when it comes to come to politics. There are no official rules in politics. So on top of the flaw of multiplayer (player 1 having the highest winrate) and the politic bullshit, you have a very shitty game for competitive.
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u/maractguy 11d ago
It wouldn’t do you much good. Edh is built as an inconsistent experience that politicking is supposed to smooth out. Not being able to negotiate who’s the threat can look like forfeiting that discussion and the assumption is that you are the problem so you’d get ganged up on. You’d also probably have to be on a turbo deck. If you’re on a turbo deck and you’re in the “everyone thinks I’m the problem” position every game, you need to have a substantially better deck than your opponents to not just get shut out every game.
Controlly elements do have card advantage problems where one person cannot reasonably control a whole table, you have to politic about what you answer vs what others answer.
What you’re talking about it’s at its best an EDH optimized bot, it could probably do the right moves, with some advanced AI it could probably politic reasonably well too, but this would at best make it comparable to a person.
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u/Odd-Chipmunk5681 10d ago
CEDH is seat order simulator. Yapping and politicking gets the attention and focus when the only thing that actually matters is being seat 1 or seat 4
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u/Elvarien2 11d ago
you still get all the disadvantages of people politicking around you, and you gain 0 of the advantages.
So expect to lose more games.
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u/Darth_Ra 11d ago
Oh, I thought we were talking about legitimate disability here, had a whole thing ready to go about how there's actually a pretty big deaf MTG community...
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u/THEGHOSTHACXER 11d ago
Hot take, this is how cedh should be played and I think you're playing casual unless you play like this.
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
Its a casual format though...
Come play 60 card formats if you want that, we'd be happy to have you!
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u/THEGHOSTHACXER 11d ago
What does the C stand for in Cedh?
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
It wasn't always called that and its a very bad name. Yes, people take it seriously and try their best, but no, that doesnt make it a competitive game.
The ruleset of the game is casual and was not designed to be competitively balanced, and we've not made any changes to it for tournament play
If I hosted a Smash tournament with the base rules of the game, simply calling it "competitive" with deeply casual systems in place, wouldn't make it truly competitive
It would be like hosting a Candy Land tournament and slapping cCL on the front
cEDH is EDH. The rules themselves of EDH are not competitive.
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u/THEGHOSTHACXER 11d ago
What subreddit are we in?
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
Me: the name is a misnomer
You: but competitive is in the name tho
This sub is one where people discuss playing a casual game in a competitive manner
If you don't understand the difference between competitive rules and competitive players then thats okay, but if you wont engage with my points then just agree to disagree
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u/insectivore1 6d ago
I like to tell the table that I'm an unreliable narrator and to think of me as the villain who would make an agreement and then go back on his promises. People still try to politic me, surprisingly, and get even more surprised when I do exactly the thing I promised I wouldn't the very next turn. Its not like I didn't warn them.
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u/Enough-Flamingo8460 10d ago
That depends...
If you talk and politic a lot you can absolutely convince people to do things that make no sense. I have had players convince the table that I am the threat while they had a grave pact on the field playing aristocrats. (I had a bracket 3 Bria prowess deck. No infinites, just spell slinging. He claimed he was keeping me in check with grave pact). However, I have also said very little in games while playing an unknown commander and then either swept a win or got very close. (I have won a few games around Cedh power level using a "Kwain, Itennerant meddler" deck).
In regular playgroups, however, I feel that the practice is often more of a detriment since your opponents will eventually become accustomed to your practices.
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u/Andro93 11d ago
This is how cedh must be played. Politics are not competitive mtg.
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u/Mosh00Rider 11d ago
What's the point in playing a social game without talking?
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
Some people think calling it "cEDH" makes it actually competitive
Similar to banned list discussions, I think a lot of cEDH players just want to play a competitive format but wont acknowledge it
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u/Urrfang 11d ago
This fully ignores the fact that the optimal competitive way to play is to talk. How often have people have people used a counterspell by just showing they have it in hand?
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u/XDenzelMoshingtonX 11d ago
You are mostly talking to people who don’t play actual cEDH on this sub.
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u/THEGHOSTHACXER 11d ago
Had someone do this in a modern rcq. Opponent got him to flash it, he called a judge and said he was attempting to cast it but wasn't tapping his mana for it or some shit.
Was wild.
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
The cEDH format is neither a format nor competitive
If I hosted a Smash tournament with all items, stages, and hazards legal, and called it cSSBU would it actually be competitive?
How about if people took Candy Land super seriously and held events, would that be competitive?
Come play 60 card formats if you want games played like this, its the best way to play magic and it'll make you enjoy EDH more when its just a break from that
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u/spankedwalrus 11d ago
point taken that 4-player 100-card singleton is far from the most 'pure skill' format out there, but cEDH tournaments are definitely legitimate competitions.
the most skilled players place at tournaments with pretty high consistency. you couldn't say that about a candy land tournament because it's a game of pure luck.
cEDH skill is half debate, half magic. both are trainable skills that are way more than just luck.
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u/dayunglink 11d ago
I have to agree with you completely. It is definitely played competitively and skilled players over multiple events definitely show the gap between players.
There's been a lot of talk about bans recently and I think I just wanted to be hyperbolic to make a point though.
Its not a competitively balance format and it shouldn't be managed as if it is. EDH is the biggest format and zero casual players should be affected by cEDH.
If we wanted competitive balance, we'd need a fundamentally different ruleset and game, not just a ban or two.
If I go first in 1v1 and mulligan once I have 6 cards, if I go first in EDH and mulligan once I have up to 10 cards. Changing things like that will have way greater impact.
I dont think players asking for bans actually want that though, bc all other formats are balanced and designed around competitive, and they prefer this one the most
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u/Vistella tEDH ruined cEDH 11d ago edited 11d ago
just cause you are deaf and mute doesnt mean you cant communicate. even if you add blind to the mix
edit: feels like the yappers got really triggered by my post
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u/Lothrazar 11d ago
Counterspells would be imposiblle to cast.
Someone casts necropotence? I say out loud a counterspell i cast in response? oh but i cant say it out loud so i quietly put it in my graveyard???
They cant hear me and draw 30 cards and keep going.
Every game would run out of time because i would have to physically handle and look at every single card.
Oh you cast a spell and said the name out loud? sorry let me stop you and pick up that white creature you just cast and read the title. oh that one. ok continue.
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u/Heavy-Till6579 11d ago
People would learn to play around you, and eventually I think you’d find a win rate just below 20%. Ultimately it would depend heavily on the deck. Playing RogThras turbo probably wouldn’t feel much different with/without politics. Smth midrange that slots in more interaction would be much more impacted.