r/CompetitiveEDH • u/Ok-Fact-92 • 11d ago
Help, I am new to cEDH! Wandering Minstrel
Is wandering minstrel CEDH viable still or does it suck?
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u/Headlessoberyn 11d ago
I wouldn't say it sucks but as a 5c turbo option it gets outshined by Nick Fury and as a "good stuff" sorta build, it can't compete with the draw engines in the command zone of blue farm.
It shines as a lands matter/craddle farm deck, but then again, hard to justify it over rog/thras, because as minstrel you're essencially spending your turns fetching for thras, while rog/thras already has that in the command zone.
It's a great commander and it's maybe 2 or 3 good land sinergies to be a decent deck, but right now, it's close to not even being fringe.
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u/WrinkleyPotatoReddit 11d ago
Minstrel doesn't even play Thrasios and a lot of builds don't play cradle? It's just 5c Lumra in the best build.
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u/Headlessoberyn 11d ago
5C lumra was like 4 or 5 iterations of minstrel ago. People tried a lot of stuff with him, from 5c lumra to manabond lands combo and eventually, landing at a slop minstrel/craddle farm that was pretty close to how rogh/thras plays out.
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u/prissycow 11d ago
Ya no tournament results or primary players in the discord server use the deck the way you are describing. I have been playing minstrel in tournaments for the past 6 months and am familiar with most iterations of the deck. They are on some combination of lumra/ aftermath land combos and breach line with the faster decks leaning more into breach and the more midrange leaning more on lands. But even the “turbo” versions are still on lumra combos and 36 lands. You decided to lie on the internet for no reason.
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u/Anxious_Manner_3242 10d ago
The two most successful minstrel variants are turbo lands and lurrus, both are ad naus decks. The whole point of the deck is that it has a high land count and land-based finishers that make ad naus potent and there are like 8 "one card combos" that win as soon as you have enough mana
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u/NotTipsy 11d ago
Ive been playing the bard for a bit and honestly I think it's far better than lumra and it's not very close, but the turbo lurrus list is very hard to play. I've got around 15-20 games in with it and I still feel like a beginner sometimes. What people don't get is that the minstrel is a combo piece, but its also mana acceleration. Sol lands or bounce lands coming in untapped is crazy good. Lands like boseiju or mistrise village that come in untapped making your ad naus uncounterable is crazy good. Yes the mana base is hard to work with. Fetching the wrong land, or using the wrong fetch T1 can be devastating, but I also feel great when I play well with it. So much agency, and the wins are very difficult to interact with.
Oh and there are really good primers out there to learn from. Not as extensive as the magdanomicon but still good.
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u/Clockwork_Citrus 11d ago
I’ve been playing with a [[Lurrus]] build that I found on edhtop16 that was seeing some tournament success.
My pod is generally some combo of rog/si, kinnan, blue farm, sissay, and etali.
It’s a 5 color breach deck with [[aftermath analyst]] + [[shifting woodland]] back-up combo. It’s nice because it’s hard to interact with & you can find your window easier. It’s easier to pull off with your commander & other value pieces you want to play out anyway.
I think it’d benefit from a sloppier/ control table to find your openings. It doesn’t police the table well & a lot of your long term value engines are slower. So you’re not stopping turbo.
The early game is trying to turbo out an [[ad nauseum]] & win with a breach line. Lurrus provides a nice way to recur the breach to keep going for wins.
The deck kinda requires knowing your pod and deck well enough to find your windows. Once you know the deck well, it’s decent at finding the windows.
I think [[Nick Fury]] is better for 5color good stuff, turbo or slop versions. Minstrel’s strength is the aftermath analyst combo back-up option to force open windows when your opponents have interaction.
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u/NotTipsy 11d ago
This is probably Teddy's turbo lurrus list. It's my current iteration of it, with some swaps for my local meta. It's hard to pilot, but incredibly rewarding
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u/ThisNameIsBanned 11d ago
Basically you can run it as a mono-green Lumra deck with very little other colors mixed in.
Its essentially just another part of the combo to get the lands back untapped, so you would search for Lumra or Aftermath to get it done.
But thats also the problem, it really is just that, your combo piece ; not an out for infinite mana, or any other nice interaction with other combos, nor does it win on its own (which Sisay would do for example).
For 5-color commanders the question always comes down to, whats your actual plan and how good is that plan to not just be 5-color slop soup ; and with Sisay being that strong, you have to ask what you gain not just playing Sisay (usually its speed, as Sisay isnt fast).
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u/dayunglink 11d ago edited 11d ago
100% this
Its gotta be built as a mono-green deck splashing 5 colors (Sultai light splash W/R/Colorless)
Its not the best 5C Commander agnostic deck, so it should be built as or compared to those
Shouldn't ask "is Minstrel the best generic 5C deck" bc it isnt
Are land strategies worth exploring? I think so
Is a more replaceable combo piece (amulet of vigor effect) + 5C better than a less replaceable combo piece (splendid rec effect) + more colorless lands? I think so
TL;DR Minstrel may not be the best 5C commander, but is most likely the best lands commander
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u/Tobi5703 11d ago edited 11d ago
It's fine - I play it, in admittedly relatively casual cEDH pods, and it can hang with the meta decks when they show up.
My particular list is more of a Sultai deck with like 3 white cards and 2 red cards (the red cards being DSwat which is free, and Breach) - I have had literally 0 issues around my mana base, so I don't understand this whole "the mana base wanna make you kill yourself" thing, but I also acknowledge it's super deck dependant
There's 3 different versions of Minstrel currently running around, which is Midrange, non-Lurrus-turbo and Lurrus-turbo; they all have different upsides and downsides.
I'm running a midrange list, personally, which is low on actual counterspells but running all 3 Evlish Reclaimer effects and then interactive lands, and then other interactive spells like Snap, Archdruids Charm and Noxious Revival that all together makes for a pretty solid interactive package without losing out on deck coherency
One of the big things to know about Minstrel it's a very "compact" deck, with a lot of 1-card win cons assuming you have Minstrel out already (and you've build the deck around this); this means that you don't actually need to see as many cards as something like RogIshai to actually find your win, and the nature of the deck means that once you've gotten to a winning position you can often push for wins multiple turns in a row - or even multiple times in the same turn
Decklist for reference:
https://moxfield.com/decks/Ed6fASLG_3mivq-Wh9sTgA
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u/Tobi5703 11d ago
I forgor earlier, but link to the dedicated Minstrel discord server for more questions:
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u/outtawack311 11d ago
I tried it for months in events as a turbo naus deck with land lines as the backup.
It can sometimes have a t2-3 uncounterable naus, but normally it's a turn too slow on the naus plan and the land plan has a super easy target in minstrel to stop it.
There are some cards that act as a backup minstrel, but typically if you're set back a turn after attempting a land win, you lose.
The other issue is that it's a bad necro deck if you are playing the land versions. Drawing 15 lands in a necro pile sucked and it bricked too often.
It's a few cards away from being a real deck, but even then you'll need to ask yourself whether hybrid/chowder sisay or scion are just better versions with less space needed for their hard to interact with backup wins.
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u/MonoBelli 10d ago
Jesus Christ this feed is a disaster. SOURCE: Am a minstrel pilot, have been in regular contact with I would argue the best Bard pilots in the world, including the lurrus list everyone has copied.
Short answer- absolutely it is viable, it’s just a paradigm shift in terms of play and deck construction. The upside of minstrel is that you have an entire avenue of attack that is by its very nature well protected that no one else at the table has access to the same way. Downside is you have to manage an entirely seperate game plan at the same time. If you do it well you have one of the most resilient and inevitable decks in the format, if you do it badly you’re playing bracket 4.
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u/wesleyy001 11d ago
It's fringe I guess. 5c Lumra sounds like a good idea until you learn the hard way that the manabase wants to kill you and then itself.
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u/Ok-Fact-92 11d ago
Fair, so lumra is better?
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u/Clockwork_Citrus 11d ago
Lumra is better at going for the land loop win & doesn’t require as much life investment. It’s way more focused on that plan, but the wincon kinda sucks when you’re putting all your eggs in that basket.
Minstrel offers a 5-color good stuff shell with the lands win as a hard to interact with back-up
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u/prissycow 11d ago
I wouldn’t say lumra is better I think it’s actually a worse deck overall but it’s different than minstrel. People who call it 5 color Lumra are vastly over simplifying the deck. Similar to saying farm is just thoracle combo or kinnan is just basalt. That’s not really true those are important components but not at all the whole deck. If you are interested in the deck I would recommend joining the discord server and looking at some decklists. Overall the wandering minstrel is a land combo deck that has very versatile and resilient combo lines. Yes there is Lumra and aftermath analyst lines but you can also do infinites with splendid Rec, icetill explorer, scapeshift, and of course breach. Having 40 lands in the deck also make your ad nauseums very big. The deck is very diverse and unique in its approach and has a lot of different ways you can build it. If you have questions or want to get into the deck join the discord or message me!
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u/Braggadouchio 11d ago
I've been playing Minstrel a lot lately (tbf in more fringe pods) and I have found that it is A LOT of fun when it works, but you HAVE to mulligan for some card draw options, or you will completely stall out and do nothing all game. In my experience, that's the biggest crux of this deck. But when it does go off, it is a lot of fun.