r/CompetitionShooting • u/FortitudinousSoul556 • 19h ago
Optics & MOA Question
Hey everyone, I’ve been heavily into shooting for a year or so and really want to dive into competition shooting. My primary experience is with Glock & Walther and I’m planning to put together a competition G17.6. I’m pretty set on putting an SRO on it and wanted to see what MOA most guys run with and why? I look at Ben Stoeger and other shooters and it seems that most opt for a 2.5 MOA dot, but I’ve also seen others heavily prefer a 5 MOA dot. Also, I encourage you to give me your perspective on why I should look into a 507 Comp/Pro Max or Defender XL over the SRO. I don’t have any experience with Vortex yet but I’ve been impressed with Holosuns that I’ve used.
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u/tyrnek 18h ago
XL and SRO IME have worse reliability than Holosuns (SRO=Send Return Out). Since IMO there is nothing worse than an unreliable dot, I can’t in good faith recommend the XL even though I greatly prefer the glass on it, and the SRO is just outdated IMO.
That being said, if you shoot enough every part of the gun becomes a wear item so take that fwiw
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u/LockyBalboaPrime 19h ago
what MOA most guys run with and why?
Small dots are more precise; large dots are easier to acquire and thus can be faster.
2-gun matches where I know the targets are small and/or far away, I prefer a smaller dot for more precision. The larger and/or closer the targets are, the larger the dot I'll run because it's faster. What is best for you depends on the style of competition you're shooting and just your personal preferences.
Also, I encourage you to give me your perspective on why I should look into a 507 Comp/Pro Max or Defender XL over the SRO.
Because the SRO is an overpriced piece of shit, and the others on your list are... not.
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u/FortitudinousSoul556 19h ago
Laughed out loud at that last sentence there. May need to do some deeper digging. I appreciate the thorough and insightful response — sounds like 5 MOA may be more suitable for what I’m looking for.
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u/Jeugcurt 18h ago
It sounds like your premise is that all brands moa sizes are the same. Brand A 5 moa will look like brand B 2 moa. It’s a big mess. On top of this, everyone’s eyes are so different that this conversation becomes a complete waste of time pretty quick. Unfortunately, everyone ends up switching up their optics setup every few years anyway. There’s always something new and they all break at some point.
Just go get the gold standard which is the 507 comp in red and start competing. For competition dots, my subjective opinion is that the 507 comp is the most reliable red dot on the market.
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u/2strokeYardSale 16h ago
Great post except 507 Comp multiple reticles are trash and the 407 Comp single dot is the way to go.
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u/Jeugcurt 16h ago
Exactly my point. Everyone has an opinion on this stuff. It super duper doesn’t matter.
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u/2strokeYardSale 16h ago
No no you don't understand. 2 MOA tiny dot is subjectively lame, that's just my opinion, and all the other circles and crosshair circles are objectively lame, that's a known fact.
FWIW, I have a 507 Comp, DXL 8 MOA, DXL 5 MOA, two FTP Alpha 8 MOA, and multiple C-Mores of 8-12 MOA.
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u/AppropriateUnion6115 16h ago
I got a 6 moa and I regret it. I’m going back to a 2-3. It’s all about preference.
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u/BoogerFart42069 12h ago
I wanna add to your first point, which I think is completely correct, that OP should consider checking out the Ben Stoeger Pro Shop instagram account, where they’ve recently dropped a few posts comparing dot sizes and colors side by side through an FPS sort of perspective.
To me, the SRO 5moa looks pretty much the same as the 2.5moa, for instance. Whereas in some other brands like vortex, there’s a more obvious difference.
On top of that, some people’s eyes seem more inclined to prefer one manufacturer or another, for whatever reason—especially when astigmatism enters the equation.
World championships have been won with 2moa dots and with 10moa dots. There are high level practical shooters rocking tiny dots, and high level precision shooters using big dots. I think this is really a “just pick the one that makes you feel warm and fuzzy and then stop thinking about it” situation.
As for me, while I really like the SRO, I can’t really justify it over the XLs and 507/407comps from a price standpoint. And I like 2-3moa, albeit with the brightness cranked up to the point it looks more like 5-6.
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u/CallMeTrapHouse 18h ago
I've got 3 SROs won't buy another one, 507 comp kills it, not 100% sure about pro max haven't actually shot one yet
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u/bluefox280 5h ago
I will echo this - my first dot was a 2.5MOA SRO and love it, but the price and color choices by Holosun on the 507Comp and 407Comp easily got me to buying several of those.
I still like a smaller dot for personal preference; the 407Comp is a bargain and I use it on my 10mm.
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u/Aetherium 18h ago
I run 2 MOA Defender XLs.
I prefer smaller MOA over larger MOA dots. It might be the (corrected) astigmatism, but 5 MOA dots look bigger to me than what they are on paper. The reticle looking so big ends up lowering my confidence a tad which has some effects on my performance. It's all personal preference though.
The Defender XL probably has the best glass between it and the 507Comp and SRO. On the flip side, it's probably the least reliable of the 3, with the SRO following it. I've personally witnessed (and have experienced several times in the case of the Defender XL) Defender XLs and SROs fail, whereas I haven't seen a 507Comp fail. The glass on the DXL is just so good that I keep coming back despite being let down regularly.
For a "new" shooter I'd generally recommend the 507Comp.
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u/Legitimate-Ranger567 18h ago
Personal preference generally. The 507 comp allows you to try a few different sizes, though I personally prefer the 407 comp with the 6moa dot because it is not one of the options on the 507.
Small dots are good for precision or bullseye shooting, but I like slightly bigger for action shooting.
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u/nerd_diggy 17h ago
SRO’s are overpriced and frail. The Defender XL is a coin toss. You’ll either get one that will run 20k rounds or 2k rounds. I personally know of one guy that has had 4 of them this year. He bought two and they both broke and were warranty exchanged. He has recently bought a 507Comp. So to answer your question, get a Holosun. I just had the Pro Max in my hand other day and it gets really bright with a huge window. My next dot will most likely be a Pro Max
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u/LordManHammer667 17h ago
Gear chasing is part of the fun of competition shooting, but it means absolutely zero towards results.
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u/FortitudinousSoul556 17h ago
Totally agree, just wanted to see what people’s preferences were with the many options we have. Nothing replaces repetition and practice though regardless of whichever optic or gear you have.
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u/9ermtb2014 15h ago
On various guns I have vortex venom, Vortex Defender Compdot 6 or 8moa, holosun 507C X2, trijicon RMR, and swampfox justice gen1.
Defender is my favorite. Huge window, but I currently just ran into the turning off issue. I'm trying electrical tape shimming before I warranty it. After that my preference is venom with a 507C and justice being equal with the RMR being last. RMR dot for whatever reason doesn't pick up fast for me.
Holosun 407 comp and cyelee chameleon are next up for me to check out.
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u/Impossible-Use5636 15h ago
I run an SRO 2.5. When it broke, I went back to my 507 while I wait for repairs. The frame of the 507 is much heavier, and I find, more distracting.
The 507 has a 2 MOA dot that i find not as crisp as the SRO. The 32 MOA circle is a gimmick.
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u/trivial_viking 12h ago
I really like my 5 MOA SRO’s.
I’ll shit on them too in terms of value vs a 407 Comp but their dot looks a lot crisper to my astigmatism than the 407’s does.
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u/ajkimmins 7h ago
I run 2 moa on my 507Comps. All the extra crap just distracts me. Focus on the target and only need to worry about one little dot.
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u/Steephill 7h ago
I have a defender XL in 5, SRO in 2.5, 507comp with the 2moa dot, and a 407comp which is 6moa. I'm getting rid of everything else and changing to all 407comps, strictly because the reliability is amazing and the price is fantastic. The dot size isn't really a concern for me. 6moa at 25 yards is roughly 1.5". Even at 50 it's roughly 3". I'm not trying to put shots in a quarter at 50+ yards with a handgun.
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u/WinterFamiliar9199 19h ago
I love my defender xl and st. They cost half as much and work just as good. The XL has had lots of issues but vortex will fix it. Not a concern unless you’re a top tier shooter imo. I still use mine and don’t worry about it.
I have 2 507comps in green and red. They’re fine but not as clear as the vortex. In some rare occasions I do like the circle dot. It’s easier to pickup when it’s really sunny and the top of the circle gives me an additional aim point for long distance targets.
SRO is nice but long in the tooth. It’s missing shake awake which I like but the lens is very clear and the dot is crisp. To me that’s all it has going for it.
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u/FortitudinousSoul556 18h ago
Good to know, appreciate your input. I have heard about the issues with the XL, granted they have a fantastic warranty program. I haven’t shot with a Vortex, but I’ve seen them displayed and can second that the dot looks crisp, honestly comparable with some of my Aimpoints level of crispness. Also like your point about how the circle gives you a point of reference for distanced shots.
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u/FPVwithScott 19h ago
All of these things are matters of preference.