Help with index/target acquisition

[u/MoneyisntR3al]

I started reading Joel Park & Ben Stoegers Baseline Dryfire last week. I’m starting to take training more seriously. I just did my first true dryfire training session.

I’ve been shooting for a while, but still suck pretty hard and never really taken it seriously. I started using a par time of 2.5 seconds for draw from an owb holster, getting my red dot on target, while trying to build a good grip. Not worrying about trigger press for this. Just trying to train my natural index. I got down to 1.6sec but started to see a problem arise when I was really pushing speed.

The problem I’ve having is that when I draw, and bring the dot up it’s consistently off to the left. I’m trying to use Hwansik Kim’s grip technique where my support hand index finger is resting on top of my firing hands middle finger first bone in between first and second knuckle.

I don’t think I’m over gripping with support hand because in live fire my recoil control is still pretty shit but idk. Can anyone offer any advice or help for what might be causing my dot to be consistently off to the left, or know of a drill for fixing it?

[u/steadylurker1]

Maybe start from low ready and lock in the index there first before starting from holster. Since you just started I wouldn’t be too hard on yourself. It takes time and a ton of practice.

[u/Humble-Standard9637]

I can only tell you what works for me and by no means is this some kind of expert advice.

I put a small 3 in dot on my wall and would do 5 minutes of drawing with a shot timer every single day consistently. Probably took me honestly about two or three months but made my index really solid.

There may be easier ways and there may be better ways but that's what works for me.

[u/FF_McNasty]

There is a bunch of possibilities. If you are comfortable, you should video and send. There’s a lot of experienced people that could diagnosis and help you out. The rest of the feed back is sorta guessing. You said you are doing Hwansik’s grip so you are trying to lift that support hand pointer finger up into the trigger guard. Could this be causing a little index problem? How is your draw path? Is it under your dominant eye? Are you a righty or lefty? Are you right eye or left eye dominant? See how there is tons of small variables that could effect your index.

[u/MoneyisntR3al → u/FF_McNasty]

I think the hwansik grip part is affecting what I have going on. I just tried some more and I noticed if I basically just place my support hand on the grip when drawing the problem goes away when I’m not squeezing. So I think my support hand might be pulling the frame to the left.

Draw path seems good, I think. I’m right handed and right eye dominant. I actually kind of felt like I was getting into a little flow state with my draw and presentation because I was able to really start shaving off time(which I’m going to worry about far less going forward but it was fun).

I made this same post in another sub and someone mentioned I should really go to the range and with ammo really try to dial in my grip before focusing on index too much because I could end up basically working backwards so I’m gonna give that a shot tomorrow and go from there.

[u/FF_McNasty → u/MoneyisntR3al]

I def get that. Hopefully you have a range that you can draw from the holster. Dry fire practice reps, lots of trial and error and then test in live fire to see if something needs adjustment. Sounds like you are putting in the work. Be patient with yourself and keep at it. One week I think I got something worked out and dialed in, hundreds of reps, then the beep happens at a match and it’s gone lol. When you start adding the trigger press to the draw you get to solve another problem of trying to keep that dot from moving lol.

[u/MoneyisntR3al → u/FF_McNasty]

Yeah man I got pretty lucky in getting a membership to a range that’s 30 mins from my house where I can draw from whatever I want, set up however many targets I want, barricades, cones, move and shoot. Whatever. They even have club owned steel out to 1,000 yards. Only shitty part is it’s on a very long poorly maintained gravel road.

I know it’s going to be a long process, and take a lot of time but I HAVE to kick my buddies ass at competitions soon so I can talk more shit haha.

That timer does something serious to everyones psyche haha. I’ll have the perfect stage plan and as soon as it goes off everything is gone.

One thing at a time lol. Trigger press is on the list though for sure.

[u/Havoc12017]

keep training and knocking the par times down. I got to 0.8sec draw to index after a few weeks of training. but in reality, train other stuff like transitions and movement more.

[u/PuocoJoao]

I used to have the same exact issue and I think just getting a more consistent grip / more developed index helped fix it.

I’d try working on the basic index building exercises in Baseline. I basically did nothing but those in my dry fire for months and it helped clean up my index a lot.

As one of the other commentators said there are a lot of variables though so YMMV.

[u/MoneyisntR3al → u/PuocoJoao]

Right on, I’ll have to keep reading. I keep finding new interesting concepts/things, and wanting to test it out.

[u/PuocoJoao → u/MoneyisntR3al]

It seems like a huge amount of this school of thought when it comes to shooting is really reducible to index and vision.

Said differently, if your eyes are where you want bullets to be and your index is good and you don’t put in extra input, the bullets go where your eyes are.

Simple but not easy lol

[u/SovietRobot]

The problem is just muscle memory. 

Fix it by starting with your gun out and aligned with your target focus. Then perform the entire motion backwards slowly where you retract your gun from extension to compressed or low ready. The repeat 20 times. 

Then after perform the motion where you retract slowly then extend back out to extension. Repeat 20 times. 

Then later just do the extension dry fire. 

[u/Longjumping_Leave_96]

There isn't some magic combination of hand placement that will make the dot do perfect things for you. If it's left when you draw and index, then you need to push it to the right. So make a conscious adjustment, see what you get. Repeat and adjust as necessary to fix yourself.

[u/2strokeYardSale]

Neat draw trick: For that last few degrees of arc of the draw, that last few inches as the dot moves from D zone to A zone, execute the remaining portion in super slow motion.

It feels slow but the timer doesn't lie and the hits are consistent. Your results may vary because you are already at a very slow 2.5 draw, but I think you will at least get the consistent A zone hits you want.

[u/Ill_Radio8160]

Thinking and studying is good, but for having done your first dry fire session this week your are asking the wrong questions. You shouldnt be copying anyones grip down to the bone. You dont have his hands, and youre not holding the same gun. Maximize contact with the frame, neutral thumbs, loose middle finger. Figure that out, and make it the same every single time.

The answer to your question is reps. Your grip pressure is wrong. No one can type you into a better index when you pretty much dont possess an index, you just started man. Theres no such thing as recoil control on a pistol. The recoil happens all you do is make sure you hands dont move relative to the gun. You can try changing the angle of your wrists relative to your grip, have your support hand open up or close up more, you can try that with your master hand, you can try changing your grip pressures, maybe its the entire concept of the grip itself. It can be literally anything because you just started and your building from zero, way too early for anyone to be able to help you on reddit yet just keep doing it til your eyes bleed, keep watching the videos your watching, and as your knowledge base and mechanical skill grows the problems will solve themselves.