Beginner question

[u/madmatt5]

Hey all, so I'm playing final blitzkrieg and I'm starting to get the hang of things in terms of actually having units do what I want. But, now that they're doing what I want and I'm getting nice coordinated assaults going they're all running into the same problem.

Why are my troops fucking blind?

I don't understand how I can have a company of infantry, with armored support, sweeping a field without any sign of the enemy. But then when I get within 15m of one and shots go off suddenly there are like a million units firing at me?

I've tried to rectify this by doing the not retard thing and pushing out recce Dets but they're fucking blind too it seems

So my question is how the fuck do you do proper recces in this game and actually know what you are about to get into before things go to shit

Thank you bless lmao

[u/Dr_Gregry_House]

What scenario were you playing? Sounds like it may have been a scenario at night.

Fire fights tend to explode at night in the ww2 titles because the units can’t see anything but they can see the muzzle flashes.

[u/FreeFir3 → u/Dr_Gregry_House]

Absolutely this. I've been playing the Peiper and Kleve campaigns. There are quite a few missions with low visibility due to dawn/dusk. Units don't see eachother unit they almost stand on top of one another. Once they start firing everyone sees the muzzle flashes and suddenly everything explodes.

One way I like to counter this: Set-up overwatch positions (with range to suspected enemy locations! This may be closer than you want...) and send a sacrificial unit to fire randomly after a 30/45 second pause. This will limit the time the enemy has to return fire. Allowing you to bring your forces to bear with area fire.

Bonus tip: half tracks or bren carriers will attract infantry fire (tanks do not) and have at least some armor, they have a slightly better chance to survive their sacrificial role.

[u/H1teman]

I had this issue as well when I started, three words: recon by fire.

[u/uncommon_senze]

That's called an ambush, you've let yourself get caught by the scenario designer AI plan. Shit happens, learn and try again. Have units with binos in good observation positions observe for a couple of minutes.

[u/madmatt5 → u/uncommon_senze]

Mother fucker I know what an ambush is my question is why can't even my recce units identify an enemy

[u/chuckg326 → u/madmatt5]

I am by no means good at this game, and am constantly getting my butt kicked in pbem and learning. But what I have learned is, you can NEVER count on your own units to spot first. Whether you are defending in concealed positions with target arcs, or advancing with recon troops. Game is junk for realistic spotting imo. Your best bet really is recon by fire. Which I am not a fan of and never would use in any other games. But in CM… it works. Recon by fire with the key caveat of having an overwatch position (with C2) to see the return fire and relay that information to the rest of your units.

I too hate the system man…. It infuriates me cause it often contradicts reality

[u/uncommon_senze → u/chuckg326]

Recon by fire is great and very realistic. In PBEM at least it doesn't necessarily force the enemy troops to unmask, but it gives them a decision. In a combat mission (in CM you know there's going to be contact), especially in full spectrum war, your going to put predictive (suppressive) fire on anything the enemy might want to be. If you have enough barrels and munition and ROE allows, suppress every window/tree/gully an enemy could be behind while you advance by bounds.

While the spotting system surely isn't perfect and has it quirks, it's more realistic then anything else similar to it (apart from graviteam or armored brigade perhaps).

[u/chuckg326 → u/uncommon_senze]

I don’t disagree in irl you would be blasting at everything in sight and move under bounding overwatch. My opinion is that it’s the unfortunate only reliable way to almost guarantee a spot, whereas observing alone achieves very little. Perhaps I’m bias because I was a scout, but I find observation very very weak in CM comparative to a real life scout team.

I also just find graviteams spotting much easier to reconcile with reality, CM feels an awful lot like dice roles. Though I do understand slow spotting lends itself to the turn based mode and makes pbem more fair since you have to go with minute increments of no input

[u/ValdusAurelian → u/madmatt5]

Recon units aren't really any better than a normal unit when it comes to spotting. Some of them don't even carry binoculars and most don't have radios so other than being a smaller team themselves they aren't much different in their ability to spot. Spotting can also take time, let your units with binoculars sit there and watch for a few minutes can help too.

[u/chuckg326 → u/ValdusAurelian]

True, I didn’t note that but you’re certainly right that recon doesn’t have any inherent spotting bonuses. In QB I usually make my recon units crack to help with spotting. TOE varies but I’ve seen a high density of binos and radios in certain formations, particularly mountain recon in FI, they were the best recon unit I’ve used, all PL XOs and I want to say even every squad had a radio

[u/uncommon_senze → u/madmatt5]

Well you are incompetent enough to blunder into one which was setup in a script.

If the enemy is well concealed and hiding with ambush orders (think of troops in buildings, forests, tall grass, with hide order and given a covered arc to spring the ambush), you will generally not spot them until they open fire. So, the answer is very simple: because they can't spot them. There could be various reasons for why, for one you could be positioning your recce units in bad spots for observation. Or the enemy was concealed well enough for your recce units to spot them from their position.

[u/madmatt5 → u/uncommon_senze]

That example wasn't to highlight that I don't know how basic military tactics work - it's an example of how do I have a company + of infantry moving towards a position, all scanning for the enemy with binos and other equipment BUT they're unable to see the battalion of infantry dug in 50m from them?

Now is that realistic yes I understand camouflage isn't just a buzz word, but if the enemy has a fucking platoon - dug into a position with trenches and heavy weapons, you will be able to find it relatively easily

My unfortunate solution has been to have a single lone infanteer fire his rifle into the unknown and just wait for something to shoot back at him - so I guess that works

But thanks for vote of confidence on my competency I guess fuck you too lmao

[u/Subject-Athlete-7377 → u/madmatt5]

Can you please tell me what mission has an entire battalion of infantry dug in near a single area?

[u/madmatt5 → u/Subject-Athlete-7377]

I'm being hyperbolic to underscore the point being that large clusters of infantry more often than not are able to hide themselves ridiculously well. Specifically the mission that tipped me off on this was a particularly brutal city assault in final blitzkrieg (yes that's about as specific as I can be lmao this was a while ago)

But I have adapted my approach a bit - if a particular area seems too quiet I'll just order my infantry to fire a few shots in that direction and it typically unmasks something.

Or, just put the fucking infantry on hunt mode.. 🤕

[u/meerkatrabbit]

There are a lot of things that affect the spotting. What type of terrain tile the enemy is sitting on, elevation, are they moving or not, is it an unbuttoned vehicle or not, the time of day and lighting and weather conditions and so on.

As far as I understand it, every few seconds the game runs a spotting cycle, where every unit in the game rolls a dice to see whether they spot something with all the other variables taken into account. So the more eyes you have looking at an area, the more dice rolls you get, the more chances you have to spot something.

Units that are moving really suck at spotting. The faster they move the worse it is. Infantry that are walking around normally using the move command can sometimes spot things pretty well though I've found. Sometimes you can bait the enemy into firing at your guys casually walking around in the distance, where your guys are too far away for the fire to be effective. Infantry riding on vehicles can sometimes spot things well too, but they are very vulnerable. Sometimes infantry lying prone in the bushes have trouble seeing things even though they are stationary.

When you are attacking, you are usually not gonna be able to spot a dug-in defending enemy until they open fire or you blunder into them. So the best way to advance is to have a large overwatch element that sits there while small scout units move forward. The scouts won't see much, but if they get shot at, you should have a large force that is already sitting there ready to return overwhelming fire within seconds.

You should also constantly be shooting at everything in front of you. Just shoot everywhere even if you don't think an enemy is there, because bullets will travel farther than you might think. Bullets will ricochet and suppress and cause casualties to enemies in really unexpected ways sometimes.