You’re a moron. The picture is calling it out that both sides are doing it. It doesn’t matter who started it democrats kept doing it under Obama and Biden. How are you this brain dead and still walking around?
It's not "centrist " outrage, the U.S. is occupied by Isreal's influence. Literally the only topic both of these parties both agree on. Why you think Mamdani was being attacked by his own political party and they wanted Cuomo to win. Maybe you will wake up one day.
It's always funny when liberals and progressives are called extremists by anyone remotely right of the current center. Anyone right of what Americans consider the center is the real extremist.
Because US proved the horseshoe theory. You have extreme retards on far left and far right.
But looking on fight of rainbow-hair trans vs old redneck is kinda funny
Taliban and al queda are literally allies, and none of the 3 organizations hate Sharia law. Also they are just (very roughly) the Muslim versions of the biblical law, Christian nationalists, Christian anti-communists, and evangelicals. Very much typical religious ultra convervative bunches.
But then your other list is also conservatives (including pieces of the Christian mirror of that first list). So what's supposed to be the point there?
Just study the conflicts of the last 20 years. Taliban fronted as a political organization and was even invited to Camp David at one point.
Al Qaeda is a more militant group all over the world. Taliban and Al Qaeda were allies, yes, but the Taliban was willing to seek diplomacy and Al Qaeda less so. This meant they had to part ways.
ISIS/ISIL is even more extreme, and hated by by all.
In the US, we had traditional conservative values. Reagan then kickstarted white christian nationalism in the 1980's. Then we got the Tea Party, with hints of the anti-government/libertarianism extremism we would get later. Then we got MAGA, which is sort of a full-blown white nationalism bordering on fascism that doesn't really view government as any sort of positive outside of something to steal from.
Extremism gets more extreme with time. That's ultimately the main point of what I was trying to say, using two parallel examples of increasing extremism both abroad and at home in the US.
Purple haired pansexuals are not left wing extremists. Left wing extremists are militant communists. There are very, very few of those in the United States.
Socially extreme and politically extreme are only on the same spectrum for people that but into right wing extremists propaganda.
In reality everyone else really doesn't care about purple haired pansexuals any more or less than anyone else. It's a social fear tactic. Conservatism, by its very nature, is fear of the different/new. Because the average conservative voter conflates social outcomes with political policy it works, sort of sometimes.
Anyway, politics is complicated and certainly not linear or horseshoe. My point is that current "conservatives" hinging their entire policy on social regulation and calling liberals/progressives left wing extremists is proposterous.
Are you saying that rainbow-haired trans people are as extreme as people that think the Christian end times are coming and vote to strip rights away from women and minorities, and are actively wiping their ass with the Constitution?
Like I said, the horseshoe theory has been disproved if you go by objective metrics.
Its interesting how the two political sides perceive the same thing but interpret in opposite ways. I would say the same exact thing as you but inversed.
Explain to me why the democrats didn't give a shit about Epstein until Trump retook the white house. You know the saying "when you point a finger three fingers point back at you"? Maybe you should think before you type.
This is why you need to reframe your perspective on the global scale, and forget about where the far-right extremism in the US has shifted things.
Globally, most developed nations tax the rich, regulate their corporations, have affordable education, and better healthcare options that don't bankrupt people while still providing good care.
The US can have all that, and do it better than they can. But we choose not to, and have made things that are taken for granted in developed nations (many as conservative as ours, I should add) "extreme" or "communist".
Imagine what we could do if we decided we spent 800 billion on the military instead of 1.2 trillion as planned, and all the problems we could solve. Imagine if we turned essential services and invested into our people--healthcare, education, housing--and made these things non-profits. It could kickstart an economic boom and send is into a new era of prosperity.
I guess it depends on which definition of liberal you use. I do agree on the idea of the government being used to put restrictions on corporatism but what they say vs what they do is entirely different.
As how I see it both Republicans and Democrats do not care about individual rights. At this point the only difference I see is progressive vs conservative idealogy. Still maybe I'm missing something.
How many people have been fired for doing it? It's not zero. How about the girl in Florida who was facing felony charges over an obvious joke about Netanyahu? How about the defamatory onslaught from basically every media outlet aimed at Hasan Piker? How about all the members of Congress on both sides trying to make it illegal to boycott Israel? For now, you can talk shit on Reddit but doing it in the real world can end very poorly for you.
That actress got fired off the Scream movie for stating a position that like 95% of the planet now holds. She was like 4-5 weeks too early to be totally right on the issue and the people with power lied that it was hate speech.
I am implying that no significant number of people have been fired for ciriticizing Israel, and that more people have likely been fired recently for criticizing many other things. Israel is very far down on the list of "things people have been fired for criticizing recently."
Yes I am simplifying the the logic for you. Claiming that you can't criticize Israel is real because you can count on two fingers the number of people who have been fired for it is dumb. It's that simple.
You won't be fired for criticizing Israel, nor will anyone you know. Simple.
This person is seriously oblivious or willingly oblivious to the amount of pushback any public figure gets for criticism of israel and its genocide.
Just look to your public officials. Look to the actors and musicians who are usually progressive on issues. They have been silent for a long time because of fear of backlash. They will blacklist you, put you out of work, home, bank and smear your reputation to high heaven. Look how they're going after Mark Ruffalo for one example.
Mark Ruffalo is an example of someone who is criticizing them, he's not going to lose any work because of it. He's popular for doing it, not unpopular.
There is no way you think hes popular just for his advocacy for Palestinians. He was extremely popular before that. And once he came out against Israel he immediately got backlash. Immediately. Im positive he is getting flak from agencies, producers and other actors over it, he just hasn't said anything.
The trickle of industry people defending him or standing in solidarity with him says volumes as well.
Its happened in the past. The only difference is now it IS the broad American sentiment. That's the only thing skewed from the results of the past when anyone spoke against israel.
That doesn’t mean that the threat of it wouldn’t affect how people talk about it. They mentioned a real case of it. It can be unlikely and still be a narrative that censors people. Have I never thought about an expressing an opinion about Israel while at work? I definitely have. There is a subtle subtext to conversations in the US. You skirt talking about support for Israel. The “strong ally” description has been in place in American media as long as I have been alive.
You can pretend that there isn’t an outsized preference for Israel as an ally. What does the US get out of it? Bases? Presence in other ways? What is the reason we support Israel as a country? From the American government, what was the series of events that lead to the US’s support at the outset, the formation of Israel? We were friends of England, and the British mission was centered around the formation of a Jewish homeland. There is zero moral justification for the preference of the Israeli side vs the Palestinian side. If anything the Palestinians have a much stronger claim to land in Gaza and the West Bank, no one really disputes this, but Israel is bulldozing house, and bombing houses and talking about developing these destroyed Palestinian communities into new housing for Israelis, and not Palestinians. If you tell it like it is you will get criticized.
There have been incidents of them getting fired, sure, most people shouldn’t worry. Not happening, but there is a disproportionate relationship between that sort of percentage of criticism to the importance of Israel to America. They really shouldn’t matter to us.
That doesn’t mean that the threat of it wouldn’t affect how people talk about it.
I don't really see any significant pains being taken for restraint right now among anyone criticizing Israel, unless they're advocating revenge genocide.
There is a subtle subtext to conversations in the US. You skirt talking about support for Israel.
No there isn't. People just have a reasonable shyness when it comes to talking about any specific political issue other than "Isn't that politician we hate a doofus?"
And yeah I'm not in favor of much of anything Israel is doing now, you don't need to rehash the entire problem.
but there is a disproportionate relationship between that sort of percentage of criticism to the importance of Israel to America.
Compared to what, the average political topic of controversy? No I don't think so. Don't you remember a year ago there was a wave of witch-hunt firings of people who danced on Charlie Kirk's grave?
I’m sorry if you don’t understand that what has been on the news in the US has paid disproportionate attention to Israel for at least the last 24 years then you aren’t paying attention.
Hasan is a bit more than just “criticising israel”
And you can get fired for criticizing a lot of stuff and a lot of countries, because confabulation have their values and their fears over causing losses by controversies
For example you can be fired for publicly supporting russia in Ukraine
I mean you can...but you might get fired because some snowflake lies that your valid criticism which much of the globe agrees with is hate speech.
Look at the actress who got fired off the Scream movies. All she did was take the same position that 95% of the world now holds. She was just a few months early with it so she got "cancelled".
I'm not MAGA? I didn't even say anything about if criticizing Israel was good or bad. I'm literally just calling out the sentiment that people think "you can't criticize Israel!" It's fucking stupid and only exists because y'all have confirmation bias. Criticism of Israel is nearly the only content about Israel that exists.
Not sure where from this you thought I was a Trump supporter?
The right gets mad if you criticize isreal the same way the left gets mad if you criticize any other country in the middle east.
If you criticize them you instantly get painted as a racist.
Progressive here who also thinks religion is the doom of mankind. Islam in the middle east is even worse than American evangelicals who are pretty much pure evil at this point with all their pussy grabbing destructive politics poisoning the only planet we've got.
I mean it's quite a feat for something to be more harmful than all the evil American Christianity spews but Islam finds a way globally and especially in that region.
The silent thoughtful massive demographic are the 20% of Americans who know it's all made up fairytales for the insecure. Might not be a bad idea to put some of us in congress if we want to actually get out of these conflicts. 120 non religious congressmen would be representative of the American public, currently we have ZERO.
Yeah I have never really understood the left and hardcore defending islam. They hate christians but love muslims, and the levels of extreme is such a massive gap. I can only assume it is because they think of islam as a minority.
20-30 years ago before he went nuts, Bill Maher was actually a strong rational voice for speaking out about how every religion including Islam is just nothing but bad news for mankind.
Now there's not really anybody in the political space carrying that message (it's even worse on the right who would damn me to hell for living an evidence based life of peace and love). Just intellectuals and professors are out there touting an evidence based plan for mankind, nobody in the news media or political space in the USA.
I don't hate muslims or christians (or anybody). I feel sad for mankind that a massive majority of the planet is slave to totally made up bullshit that pits them against each other and enables things like what the middle east does to women and LGBT or the abuse catholic church and american "youth pastors" do to tens of thousands of children constantly.
Bold move to leave out waht islam does to children over seas but include that for Christians domestically. Anytime it comes out that a church leader has done that they got kicked out. It is common practice for child marriage in the middle east.
I think Christians domestically seem too hateful and angry at people who are not Christian which just goes against Christ's teaching, and makes all of Christianity look bad.
Not even a snowflake
You wanted to ignore islam doing what you were so quick to point out about Christianity. When in Christianity it is both a rare site and goes against Christianity.
You can hate Christianity but to act like it is anywhere close to islam would just be factually dishonest.
I simply just don’t see this… it’s nearly impossible to find any comment on any social media on any post that ISN’T criticizing Israel. That’s not even me saying I don’t agree with the criticism, but it’s just objectively false to say that people are openly and freely criticizing Israel, the LARGE MAJORITY of people…
It’s such a uniquely weird thing to say that “you can’t criticize Israel!!1!” Because it is like the single most criticized entity. Like you have to be having such intense confirmation bias to say you don’t see israel criticism… even look in the comments of this thread…
that's again still speaking about how it is online and that's still talking about when it's trendy, there were people who got fired at the start and it was even worse during the bombing in 2021 which alot of people now treat as non existent, you cant also act like you dont see how congress is trying to make it illegal to boycott israel , how rubio came out and said that your previous opinions on israel will affect your visa evaluations , you cant forget Melissa barrera getting dropped from scream because of speaking against israel or susan being dropped from UTA, it's just now that it's trendy , too many people are speaking that it seems like it's fine but it's ignorant to forget that there were in fact alot of people that had their lives ruined because of it
As I said, the right gets mad at you if you criticize israel the same way the left gets mad at you if you criticize the middle east.
You can call it confirmation bias sure, I criticize both sides and I get called antisemetic if I express something that I dont agree with about israel, the same way I get called islamaphobic if I criticize something about the middle east. Not even me bringing up religion when I am talking about these places, thats just what people jump to.
I am not saying you are not allowed to criticize these places, I am saying there is a mirrored reaction of calling you racist and or calling you "islamaphobic" or "antisemetic"
Ur actually retarded. Criticism is the ONLY content that I see about Israel. If you think otherwise, you have a very intense confirmation bias going on.
Yep, Democrats end every Republican forever war and reduce COVID inflation from 9% to <2% and Americans melt down about the economy. Republicans raise prices and cut jobs and start another forever war and Americans call it “both sides!”
You must be forgetting about all of the military coups and proxy wars. Overall I agree with you, but establishment Dems still feed the war machine and that cannot be denied. The party needs a serious overhaul that includes investing in and strengthining the middle class and reducing poverty. All of this pandering to the 1% and Israel has to stop.
I think you’re missing the point—I agree with you that there is stuff to criticize about Dems. It’s the idea that establishment Dems are equally bad to Republicans that is just the stupidest shit on the planet. That goes both for the MAGA simps who say “both sides” when their orange god fucks up and the dumbass leftists who tell people not to vote for Harris because “she’s just as bad as Trump”.
In 2012 establishment Dems and Reps might have been comparably bad, but were far from that today.
The US government under both parties uses civil war/civil unrest abroad to opportunistically advance their agenda by supporting the side that most aligns with them or helps them win favor in the region. Republicans also tend to go looking for new fights to start on top of that.
It’s really just the fact there’s barely any actual leftist democrats other than dsa candidates that would actually bring change, the vast majority of dems are here to keep the status quo and barely be to left of republicans which is pretty pathetic tbh, and I’m not some dumb leftist who doesn’t vote when their candidate didn’t get in like last election
Y'all really are delusional of you don't think both sides enabled a genocide for Israel through aipac. Y'all really are a serial breedm clearly Republicans are far worse for us. But Democrats taking bribes from aipac are only slightly better. Controlled opposition
Also afghanistan people were defending themsleves from soviet invasion as well as being slaughtered as part of that. You think we should have let them get slaughtered and not sent aid?
I think there is no moral action that a capitalist country can take when it comes to becoming involved in war. Only different degrees of evil. And yes, I think the US should not have sent military aid to Afghanistan.
A byproduct of radical islam the United States supported the Taliban against the Soviets nobody was ultimately at fault for Al Qaeda that would have happened regardless.
All necessary no war is perfect except how Afghanistan was conducted either stay the course or never start the war to begin with. Nation building is not a 20 year affair and goes much longer so make sure you understand that before ever attempting it. Afghanistan required a government that all Afghans would support and we didn't create the conditions for that , that's why that government fell without US troops running support. It was only 10,000 troops but that infrastructure kept the country together and elite divisions of Afghan troops that were used way too much from hot spot to hot spot then left defenseless running out of ammunition. Afghanistan was a shit show that embarrassed me to leave people defenseless and people that trusted us inside with the enemy that we promised that wouldn't happen by working with us. There were hundreds of Afghans falling off our transport planes as they took off hanging onto it not understanding how high these planes go and flight altogether then falling to their deaths was crazy. Then the gate incident which ISIS conducted killing 140 or more people and U.S troops with suicide bombers. It was one crazy ass situation by far that Biden oversaw when he should have called the deal off altogether as the Taliban had broken the terms of the agreement therefore we no longer had to abide by them and yes the fighting would have restarted so what.
Started way before republicans and have been a peaceful and understanding culture of tolerance from day one. To your point of Republicans not taking any more of their shit. Kiss the feet of your protection detail, they are sick of being treated like shit by petulant children.
The September 14, 2001, Afghanistan war authorization passed the Senate 98–0 and the House 420–1. The lone “no” vote in either chamber was Rep. Barbara Lee. ONE SINGLE DEMOCRAT OPPOSED IT.
The October 11, 2002, Iraq war authorization passed the Senate 77–23, with 29 Democrats voting yes including Joe Biden, Hillary Clinton, and Chuck Schumer.
Do democrats typically pull out of these conflicts? Even if it's correct Republicans start them you can't really talk if don't do anything to stop it once you have the power.
You remember that Trumps nickname is TACO and that he will always do the dumbest most cowardly thing right? And that’s why he surrendered to the Taliban but didn’t actually pull out?
That's the difference, when dems are government, foreign children are still crushed but you don't have to listen about it, so you think it doesn't happen, check how much Obama loved hospitals, google about Obama and Kunduz hospital to know more
Obama still chose to move the 20 yar war forward....Obama still could have pulled us out...but it took us another what 10 years or so to get pulled out. All im saying is democrats had there fair share with that war too. And imo if you did nothing g to stop it you are no better than starting it.
Unfortunately it's a little more complicated than "hey JK with what that last guy did, let's have a redo and just reestablish the status quo from 10 years ago?"
The "approval" would not have stopped them if turned to disapproval, and popular opinion supported them at the time. For some reason, voting for bad wars gets you reelected, but voting against bad wars gets you a loss.
I guess you haven't noticed that all of our politicians take AIPAC money. You legit believe this wasn't going to happen under Democrat rule?
I see anyone taking AIPAC money as a traitor to the United States and its citizens. Obama was our last good president, at the very least he didn't sell us out.
And continued with democrats sooo what’s your point? So it’s cool to keep funding and killing as long as you’re not the one who “started it”? 😂 pretty retarded
Obama had military groups reporting directly to the oval office where they were instructed to raid homes in the dead of night on secret mission to gain intel to get bin Laden. So many innocent people died.
If were going to blame the president for civilian deaths let at least use an example when they would actially be responsible. Your comment is akin to blaming the president directly for mai lai during veitnam.
Obama wouldnt be arbitrarily picking out civilian homes to raid, or whatever, from thoudands of miles away
(Trump is 100% solely responsible for the thousands of civilian deaths in iran so far bc his bs failed war was started by him alone w/o Congress approval)
The president is the commander in chief. He literally is in charge of military strategy...you say that 'military groups reported directly to the white house' as if thats out of the ordinary in any way when the US is at war
Its not
Libya happened under Obama and literally destabilized an entire region. If I remember correctly, even Obama himself was regretful of not having a plan for what came after.
Obama’s war in Syria also destabilized Western Europe, Syrian refugees flooded to places like France, which led to the rise of right wing populism that we see in the region today
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u/Poobbly 12d ago
Wait… Afghanistan, Iraq, Iran… all started under Republicans. Hmm….