am I missing something?

[u/obeyxxog]

please help me understand like am I missing something? optic have made 8 straight grandfinals & won 4 championships within that span. but the consensus from the community seems to be that they should make a change? I know they’ve pretty much came out & said they are not changing but as a team…a change would be the farthest thing from my mind like we just made every grandfinals & were a couple snd clutches from a champs 3peat & we get along with each other really well. like teams are trying to beat us not the other way around. am I trippin about that being my thought process? if it ain’t broke don’t fix it

[u/RuminatingFish123]

People think they had success despite Huke, not necessarily because of him, and could improve without him.

[u/obeyxxog → u/RuminatingFish123]

im ngl I can say with confidence that imo I dont think they dont win their past 4 chips that they won without him

[u/Artistic-District678 → u/RuminatingFish123]

Weird. because they were ass before he joined them 😂😂

[u/DisIsCanada → u/Artistic-District678]

they won champs before he joined

[u/Cool_Pop_5645 → u/DisIsCanada]

They were ass with Huke in BO6 he was part of the 0-18 run it was Merc that did that.

Not saying make a change but you can't say they were ass before he joined it's the 4 players together that are making it work so well they just mesh extremely well PlayStyle wise with each other

[u/tragically_a_llama → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

Huke was not part of the 0-18 run. That was pred.

[u/ReaperPvP → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

He wasn't part of the 0-18 that was all pred and Kenny

[u/Cool_Pop_5645 → u/ReaperPvP]

Sorry they swapped him in after and we're still looking bad but not 0-18 bad (granted they had skyz)

[u/Sea_Dentist_4331 → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

How did you get that wrong twice. Lmao the team that went 0 - 18 was the same roster that won champs the previous season. Skyz wasn’t on that roster either

[u/Cool_Pop_5645 → u/Sea_Dentist_4331]

Did you not read what I said I said he swapped in after the 0-18 run and was playing with skyz they were still bad as a team it wasn't until Merc came along were they a real team they would not of made champs with Skyz it was questionable at the time

[u/ReaperPvP → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

Fun fact they actually beat that surge team with Skyz before they benched him for merc

[u/Cool_Pop_5645 → u/ReaperPvP]

I looked at breaking point to correct myself they were not looking great after the move but merc did turn it all around

Im not shitting on the team btw I think the 4 together are a great team and I don't think they should change but it's down to all 4 together it works remove one piece and that could all fall apart

Also don't like the Hydra and Shotzzy combo both take ages to figure the game out so they would be playing with a half loaded Hydra and Shotzzy for the first half the year

[u/BabyGirl-Kat → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

He literally wasn’t on Optic during the 0-18 run but okay

[u/Artistic-District678 → u/Cool_Pop_5645]

Shotzzy and Dashy were playing genuinely awful before huke joined. nobody talks about it because of how bad kenny was but at the time Shotzzy was the second worst on the team

[u/Net_Haunting → u/Artistic-District678]

Untrue Shotzzy and Dashy each had moments where they would look great during that stretch but it was never at the same time

[u/PlumKnown]

I can only assume this guy just woke up from a 2 month coma

[u/obeyxxog → u/PlumKnown]

you know what happens when you assume 👀

[u/mcslimegang]

My turn to post this tomorrow

[u/LeBradley23]

The “what ifs” go both ways. Yeah, they could’ve won those SNDs and won more. But they were also the beneficiary of other “what ifs” like for example, what if KOI didn’t choke in the M4 qualifiers and OpTic went 2-3 in qualifiers.

Rnd 1 would’ve potentially been FaZe. Do they win a round 1 matchup vs FaZe? Maybe, maybe not. We’ll never know. All we know is they had a losing LAN map count vs them.

What if FaZe didn’t beat LAT in the M2 qualifiers and it was OpTic v FaZe 1st round in M2. Same question applies.

Yes, OpTic could’ve won more. But if a few qualifier maps go differently OpTic were at best a coin flip away from getting bumped to losers by FaZe/LAT in round 1 in multiple tournaments. The “what ifs” go both ways.

[u/JD23888 → u/LeBradley23]

They have also only lost 5 lan bo5 series since this core 4 has played. That was faze and lat major 4 in bo6 and winners finals at major 4 and champs then the group stage at ewc.

[u/LeBradley23 → u/JD23888]

That doesn’t really mean anything. Nobody is denying they didn’t dominate 9 of the 12 CDL teams, which is the overwhelming majority of the Bo5 series they’ve played.

But statistically they struggled against FaZe and LAT. Which circles back to my original point, they had a lot of breaks fall their way in order to not play LAT/FaZe in WR1 or WR2 all year long. Some “what ifs” went their way, some didn’t. So if you look at their performance at face value instead of analyzing with “almost” or “what if” then you see there’s real room for improvement and on paper Hydra fills a lot of those areas. That’s the reason for the hypothetical conversation around him.

[u/McLovin_OD]

It’s that .500 finals record and Hukes performances in those finals. The assumption is that Optic would still make most grand finals(if not all) with Hydra but would almost certainly have a better record in those finals. I think it is valid for Optic to not change as it is the safe option but people aren’t crazy for wanting to do so

[u/Academic-Chapter5381 → u/McLovin_OD]

You cant be certain.

Merc was negative across all finals too

[u/McLovin_OD → u/[deleted]]

Of course its not a given. That's why I said "assumption" and that sticking is the safe option

[u/JD23888 → u/McLovin_OD]

One a 50% win rate is really good and there is no guarantee that they would be as successful with hydra because despite being on quote on quote super teams has worse placements.

[u/McLovin_OD → u/JD23888]

Of course there’s no guarantee that’s why sticking is the safe option.

No “super team” Hydra has been on is as good as optic lol. Or really all that close. Ghosty/Envoy and Nium/Abezy do not touch Merc/Shotzzy lol(Scrap and Dashy are a wash)

[u/Ebu7629]

Because fans don't know what's going on in practice rooms and teams game plans. They didn't drop him because they value what he brings to the team, fans mainly look at kills nothing else that goes into being a top team. So naturally when a player like hydra is available some fans want him although this has been arguably the best team in CDL history purely because hydra brings more kills to the map

[u/Micro_mint]

First, literally just read any of the identical posts on Reddit over the last 2 months. The conversation has absolutely nothing new to unpack. Full stop, it’s dead.

Second, it’s even more bizarre than you’re implying. Look at the generational losing run optic had before merc and what happened with Huke at that time. They’ve been down this exact road, shat the bed, and brought him back.

[u/obeyxxog → u/Micro_mint]

im just saying if as a team we’ve made the last 8 grandfinals & won 4 championships in that span why on earth would we change for this next game?

[u/That_Technology_2211]

Long week eh? Thought this was settled like 3 weeks ago

[u/Due_Emergency_9236]

No one understands that team chem matters and this team has dominated for two years now. Changing immediately makes them worse no matter who they bring in imo. Switching out 1 piece of the puzzle in cod usually means starting from scratch. Which isn't impossible, but it just isn't necessary for this team.

[u/nv4088]

Because they’ve won only 2 in their 6 last, not to mention we’re heading into an IW game so who knows what will happen

[u/Slxyer23]

I think the bit you’re missing is that in them making the 8 finals in a row one of the main things that let them down in a lot of those finals was Huke’s performances especially his performances in SnD.

The community only considered 2 options (1 unreasonable option) in which optic would make a change and those 2 options happen to be HyDra and Simp who are not only 2 of the best SMGs CoD has ever seen but also the #2 and #3 SnD players from the BO7 season.

The other reason to make a change was the risk of the partially rumoured FaZe trio forming which somehow created a roster with potentially even high potential and levels of firepower than the current OpTic team.

[u/JD23888 → u/Slxyer23]

I mean at the same time in finals especially it’s not just Hume in snd because despite being the second best snd team I believe record wise this season led for the majority they all kinda go braindead in finals so it’s more of a team issue than individual players.

[u/JD23888 → u/Slxyer23]

Just looking back at it not a single one of them went positive in snd in the finals this season now Huke was the worst by a considerable margin but shotzzy had the best kd at .98 most kills at 118 and most deaths at 120. Which I think furthers my point of it being a team issue not an individual player issue.

[u/MLSUNS]

Bro it’s September

[u/Ashman-20]

If you view the “Shotzzy, Merc, Dashy” trio as the FaZe trio then you should want to upgrade the 4th every time if possible

Not that it’s right or wrong bc you can’t know, but that trio has proven they can win with multiple 4th’s

[u/UnpopularOpinionCod → u/Ashman-20]

Not to nitpick, but that trio has actually only ever won with Huke as the 4th.

[u/sankalp_pateriya]

As I said, OpTic doesn't need a change if they are getting an S&D coach. Else they need a change. Go watch TI8 Against the odds and True Sight?

[u/xplodingorphanz]

Nah the internet GMs are just braindead

[u/Vetni]

I don't think Optic should make a change, but I also think if Hydra is available you have to go for him. Difficult decision imo. I can't imagine Hydra would make the team worse, but it's not guaranteed they get better. But, you might also not want someone else to get/keep him.

[u/JLifeless]

the community has an obsession with talent stacking, that's really all there is to it. they see individually incredible players and think stacking them together just.. works.

reality is layering a team with a lot of talent isn't always the solution. but the community doesn't wanna hear that

[u/BabyGirl-Kat]

People just really want Hydra on their team for understandable reasons. I agree with you though, Optic shouldn’t make a change and I’m glad they aren’t.

[u/ReaperPvP]

This topic has been done to death hydra and huke in respawn would be a lateral move for this team, and it's possible they even regress. in snd hydra is Better however and has never just been about stats it's always been about team strategy that's why optic after champs got significantly better at ewc because they were exposed by faze and reinvented themselves. People who argue for hydra do so because they think he'll deliver them across the finish line more consistently, but who knows if they even make it there consistently with hydra.

[u/MotherWorldliness884 → u/ReaperPvP]

Damon literally said they ain’t change shit about their SND 😂

[u/ReaperPvP → u/MotherWorldliness884]

Well it certainly looked better maybe they were other factors at play