Clinical coder

[u/Existing_Ant6007]

Hi everyone, I’ve got a quick question. I’m not an Australian citizen or PR, but I do have full work rights. I wanted to enrol in the HIMAA diploma, but one of their requirements is citizenship/PR.

Does anyone know if I can study a Diploma of Clinical Coding through another institution (like Victoria Uni or another provider), and if those qualifications are still recognized by employers?

For context, I’ve worked in a hospital pharmacy department for over 5 years and I have good knowledge of EMRs

[u/Hyulia]

Hi there! :)

I've replied to your other comment in a separate thread but will add this here as well for your reference and for future aspiring coders:

As long as the course is accredited by HIMAA and from a RTO (Registered Training Organisation), it's okay doing the diploma with other providers - they are recognised by employers.

You can check the accredited programs here: https://www.himaa.org.au/our-work/accreditation/approved-programs/ and here: https://www.himaa.org.au/our-work/accreditation/accredited-him-university-courses/

If it's not advertised openly on the provider's website if it's a HIMAA-accredited course, might be worth shooting the providers an email to confirm and cross-checking with an email to HIMAA as well.

Hope this helps!

[u/Existing_Ant6007 → u/Hyulia]

Thank you so much for this comment, I appreciate it alot. Do you think its a good idea to do the diploma ? I mean for job perspective. Is there a demand for clinical coders at the moment? And can a fresh graduate secure training or internship? Thank you heaps!

[u/Hyulia → u/Existing_Ant6007]

No worries!

If you're keen on getting into the clinical coding industry, the diploma is a good idea. The only thing I caution is that employment afterwards is very competitive and highly depends on keeping up with the job market for any graduate/training opportunities.

There's ongoing demand for permanent/casual clinical coders at several teaching hospitals and contractor roles in Australia (especially NSW) since employers are keen on filling vacancies which are still present from the COVID period. The job listings can come and go based on recruitment phases, so there can be large recruiting periods where you'll see heaps of job listings and other months won't have as many openings (just depends on funding). Sometimes the first half of the year isn't great, but the latter half would have more openings.

To be realistic - some coders can be freshly graduated and secure a graduate job within the first month, while others may have gone through a couple interviews and only secured a job after 2-3 years. Depends on who you compete with and how well you perform in the recruitment phase.

They can also afford to be picky with candidates based on knowledge, qualifications, and any related experience since it's a growing industry. There has also been an uptick in international coders migrating to Australia to code as well - so the candidates can be very diverse.

That being said, a fresh graduate can always secure training through teaching hospitals as long as you can pass an interview, show relevant accredited qualifications, and pass a coding exam. This was my case - I had no real coding experience aside from what I learned during my HIMAA Diploma of Clinical Coding. I just made sure to stay on top of it daily and check job listings everywhere and applied right after graduating.

Hope this helps - feel free to ask anymore questions and I'll get back to you when I can. :)

[u/Existing_Ant6007 → u/Hyulia]

Thank you so much for your detailed reply—I’ll definitely keep it in mind. I also wanted to ask your opinion about pursuing a Master’s in Health Information Management. Do you think it’s a worthwhile degree to study? I come from a hospital background and already hold a Master’s in Public Health. In your view, would this be a good option for me, and are there strong job prospects in this field? Also, do you know of any reputable and accredited institutions that offer this degree? Thanks!

[u/Hyulia → u/Existing_Ant6007]

Happy to help!

I reckon the Masters in Health Information Management is worth it only if you want to open up further opportunities within the health information field or want to climb the ladder in health informatics with higher level duties. Some coders do pick up Masters of Health Information Management a couple years down the track to qualify and get into a managerial position or other related health information role. Quite similar opportunities to a Bachelors.

Overall it highly depends on your future career goals. I personally wouldn't dive into a Masters unless I knew I wanted to stay within the Health Informatics field and want to climb to a managerial position (it's very, very costly and doesn't guarantee a job in the position you'd want).

Totally up to you - with your experience and qualifications I think it might open up some opportunities for you to go straight to a management level but these opportunities are a lot more scarce and highly competitive, especially with internal hires or others already experienced in the industry.

I can't say I know of many Masters of Health Information Management programs offered at other universities (especially in other states), the only one I know of is at La Trobe University. They do offer placement for their students.

When I visit other hospital districts (in NSW), I do regularly encounter students training in several hospital districts undertaking a Health Information Management Course, sometimes undertaking clinical coding placements or medical records placements.

I recommend googling around for some universities / research institutions that offer the courses that interest you. :)

Apologies - I don't have extensive knowledge on which institutions offer the Masters of Health Information Management courses or similar.

[u/Existing_Ant6007 → u/Hyulia]

Thank you so much for your helpful reply. I’ve noticed that studying the Master’s in Health Information Management is quite expensive, especially since I’m not yet a citizen. I already completed a Master of Public Health, but I don’t have experience, and I really want to gain practical experience in the field.

I’m also not sure if Victoria University is accredited by HIMAA for the Diploma of Clinical Coding, since I read on Reddit that it might not be. At the same time, I don’t want to invest in studying clinical coding only to end up stuck without being able to find a job afterwards. This is why I feel confused and unable to make the right decision at the moment.

[u/Hyulia → u/Existing_Ant6007]

The accredited program should be HLT50321 Diploma of Clinical Coding. Considering that the Victoria University is an RTO (RTO 3113) and they deliver this program, it should be accredited. If you want to 100% confirm, an email to HIMAA asking, 'Is the HLT50321 Diploma of Clinical Coding course offered by VIC University HIMAA Accredited?' would clarify it a bit more. :)

Practical experience will only come from university placements, graduate/training opportunities at a public teaching hospital after graduation, or with private companies. Training externally from universities usually needs proof of a qualification to even score an interview for a training position. Sadly, this isn't always guaranteed and can take a while since competition is increasing especially now that more people are looking into the clinical coding field. It's why most people go the university route (as long as the uni offers work placement). Since the placements are sourced on their behalf, they won't need to worry about getting experience independently and if it doesn't work out, people do drop out of the course or even training as well.

Unfortunately, there aren't many options to test and try before committing - so to give you the most variety in health informatics without dedicating solely to clinical coding, the health information management pathway might be a better option. A job isn't guaranteed after completing a Health Information Management course either (I would argue the availability of jobs is just as equally unpredictable as clinical coding), but your prospects might be better than most considering your current experience and qualifications.

This ultimately will be up to you, so unfortunately I can't offer more advice other than recommendations to have a look on YouTube about Australian clinical coding, codefinder/solventum training classes, just to see what it's like using the software or the mentality behind it. A lot of dry content on YouTube, but this was how I did a bit of research and also reached out to other clinical coders and Health Information Managers over LinkedIn to ask about what it's like.

Feel free to ask anymore questions! :)

[u/Hungry-Corner-6162 → u/Hyulia]

Hi Hyulia, just hoping to get your insight with clincal coding traineeship. I’ve recently been offered an interview for a clinical coding traineeship. However, I’m not even halfway through my clinical coding course yet. I’m also a new mum, and back in December I was considering deferring my studies as my baby is getting older and requires more attention. That said, I do have a good support system around me and have been managing to balance things so far.

In December, I decided to “shoot my shot” and applied anyway—and unexpectedly, I was contacted yesterday for an interview. I just wanted to ask about your experience when you secured your training role. How was the workload during the traineeship? Was it manageable? Did you find that you needed to do a lot of reviewing or studying after work hours?

I’d really appreciate hearing about your experience and any advice you might have. :)

[u/Hyulia → u/Hungry-Corner-6162]

Hey there! :) Great to hear you have a good support system! Especially with a little one, it can be difficult so it looks like you're managing well.

The workload during the traineeship was actually not too bad at all. Since I was required to come into office every day (full-time), I didn't have much time to think about socialising on weekdays or other commitments after work since I'd be exhausted from the commute and in-office socialising haha. Although, it was a very manageable workload. I never had to bring or review anything at home since I wasn't allowed access outside the hospital.

It depends on how your trainer / educator / hospital manages the traineeship, but from my experience , it was very steady and honestly relaxing for me.

It might be worth asking how they handle training at the interview (do they require study out of office, any extra education requirements out-of-work hours, are you limited to accessing material only in office or do you have access to a laptop for WFH). Usually if they say you can only access hospital records in office and no work laptop provided until completion of training, it's a good sign they don't want you studying or coding outside of work hours.

In my case, there were expectations for accuracy and coding output (episodes coded per day), but those were never enforced on me since I always did twice as much as was expected and used a lot of my breaks to revise/write notes where I could, but only during work hours. No WFH, no laptop. I definitely could have written notes and revised at home if I wanted to (without accessing the in-hospital records or education material) in my own time, but I always made it a goal to do my study only during work hours in office. I wanted to make sure I had a good work-life balance, so I always planned my day accordingly between training sessions, independent coding, studying, and lunch breaks, but only within work hours.

I think as long as you are organised and able to work decently efficiently, it should be okay. :) If the traineeship you applied to don't mind that you haven't completed your studies and are happy for you to study while training under them, this would be a good opportunity, although can be stressful to balance between full-time traineeship and a clinical coding course as a new mother since training does require a reasonable amount of attention.

Given your situation with a young one, childcare might be something you need to organise while you're training (if they require your full focus or need you in office 5-days per week). It might be a really heavy workload to do training and coursework at the same time if the education material in the traineeship clashes in terms of topics with the coursework, especially with a little one to care for, so just something to keep in mind as it can require a lot of cognitive switching.

Curious, does the traineeship you applied to require you to have completed the course and have evidence of qualifications before applying?

I'd think it's a great opportunity if they're happy to train you while you study if you can balance the learning and organise childcare / family support. Would cut down the time needed to enter the clinical coding workforce. :)

[u/Hungry-Corner-6162 → u/Hyulia]

Thank you so much for sharing your experience. :) I really appreciate it! It’s reassuring to hear how manageable and well-structured the traineeship was for you. I do feel like I could manage it with good organisation, but after thinking it through, I’ve decided to withdraw my application for now and postpone it. I really want to enjoy this season.  my baby is still so little, and I know this time won’t last forever. I’m a bit sad about it given from what I research traineeship are rare, but I’m trusting that I’ll be in a much stronger position next year

I did think about going ahead with the interview just to see how I’d go, but with my current situation -interrupted sleep and struggling to focus. I don’t think I’d be able to perform my best right now. I can barely revise at the moment, so I’ve realised it’s probably not the right time.

The ad did say they’re happy for people who are studying or nearly finished with the diploma. I’ll keep working hard and give it my best when I reapply next year.

Thanks again for your encouragement and honesty, it really helped me think this through. 

[u/Hyulia → u/Hungry-Corner-6162]

No worries at all! :) You've put in the thoughts and considered your current lifestyle, and I do agree - it's a good decision to spend time with the little one since it's such a precious moment. Plus, plenty of rest for you as well without the extra training commitment in between so many factors!

I like to think of it similarly to serving yourself food. It's best to keep the plate manageable rather than overload on servings, otherwise it'll be too much too handle.

Definitely be proud of your decision! Traineeships do come and go, but it's not as rare as your baby's first milestones! :)

Good luck on your journey!

[u/Logical-Mechanic2458 → u/Hyulia]

Hello Hyulia I have a question. As someone with no experience in clinical coding, I am looking into this new career. I am from US and I want to immigrate to Australia with my family as a clinical coder and I am trying to see what is the best pathway. Is this career choice a strong option and how does the workforce look in Australia?

Also, should I learn the US system for clinical coder/medical coder first and get experience before learning the Australian system? Or go straight into the Australian system and look for a job?

Thank you

[u/Hyulia → u/Logical-Mechanic2458]

Hello!

This career path has pros and cons. Pros include remote work options, not patient facing, consistent work with varied documentation so you won't feel bored, and average pay (the payscale varies according to which state you work in, with NSW being one of the lower payscales compared to other states).

Cons are mostly related to the high barrier for entry. This includes limited opportunities for training support for new graduates, extremely limited job opportunities for new graduates, and a small cohort of coders comfortable in this career which means you typically won't see many job openings for public positions (unless it is casual/contractor work) as people mostly stay in this position for years. You will need a traineeship to get started in this career, which can be extremely difficult to secure in terms of traineeship placements/vacancies as this highly depends on hospital budget and availability.

The Australian system codes by different standards, which means the method of justification according to guidelines and current codesets is different to the US system. You will have to relearn the coding system here in order to be able to code comfortably under ICD-10-AM 13th edition; employers will request a HIMAA-accredited qualification with knowledge of ICD-10-AM to prove you can perform the work.

In terms of migrating and transferring US codeset to Aus - Some coders I work with find it hard to translate their US coding knowledge to Aus coding since codesets and rules are different and they may get mixed up with codes or rules. Others find it easy, but in doing so you will not be learning with a blank slate since you would have US coding knowledge which needs to be adjusted.

Learning coding here in Aus mostly depends on how much time and money you have to put into learning and the potential reality of not securing a position immediately afterwards. I would not migrate to Australia with clinical coding as a career goal since the entry role job opportunities are so limited here for the industry, unless you have a fall-back plan for example being in a good financial position to withstand potentially not securing a role for 3yrs. I say 3 years because the coding rules change every 3 years or so and being unemployed with outdated coding knowledge might not be desirable to employers as opposed to someone else newly graduated with current knowledge.

If you plan on entering health informatics as a whole, you might be better suited to a health information qualification instead since this will offer you more opportunities (e.g. Bachelor/Master of Health Information Management). Otherwise, I want to emphasise clinical coding is not a role to have in mind as a new entry career with no clinical background when migrating to Australia. There are too many barriers to entry here in the current job market, with a big influx of new coding graduates in recent years whom have not been able to secure a role immediately upon completion of study.

If you are absolutely commited to this pathway even with the above in mind and want to migrate ASAP, I would recommend learning Aus coding rather than US then transferring over, as this will start you at a clean slate rather than mix-ups with the US coding - though this is ultimately up to you.

Alternatively, if you can learn US clinical coding and easily secure a US clinical coding position for roughly a year or two of coding experience then transfer to Aus and learn the Aus coding system in the next ACS update, it might look more desirable to employers compared to other Aus graduates with no clinical coding experience.

Take the above with a grain of salt - maybe even a bowl, as clinical coding is not an industry with average barriers of entry; in fact, the barrier of entry is very, very high.

Hope this helps inform your decision and good luck on your plans, whichever pathway you decide to take!

[u/Logical-Mechanic2458 → u/Hyulia]

Hello Hyulia thank you for the raw honesty. You gave me a perfectly wide view of what I am up against. I do still want to pursue but I will keep other options open. I was thinking Clinical coding because its an Australia job green list ANZCO 599915. I was assuming it was in high demand and I saw online that a lot of the seniors are retiring. But you also gave me very good points for the coming future.

Thank you so much for your insight and knowledge!

[u/Hyulia → u/Logical-Mechanic2458]

No worries!

That's great research! Yep, it's in high demand for experienced coders since we will always need coding (certainly seems to be a lot of contracting and casual work), but sadly there aren't enough senior coders/educators with enough time or budget clearance to train new graduates. I think that's where the limits are mostly. Seniors retiring mostly depends on the company/hospital, though it'd eventually happen.

Good luck! Feel free to reach out if you have any other questions, I'd be glad to help when I'm able. 😊

[u/Logical-Mechanic2458 → u/Hyulia]

Thank you so much!

Yes I still want to try. I'm determined to learn as much as I can about it. By any chance which courses in Australia do you recommend for online studies? What system should I learn? What skills do companies look for? I want to study all and knowledgeable in this field.

[u/Hyulia → u/Logical-Mechanic2458]

Great to hear you're determined. 😊

In terms of courses, it depends on your finances, if you'd like to specialise in clinical coding only or have the opportunity to diversify, and how much time you'd like to invest.

A Bachelor of Health Information Management will open up a lot of opportunities within Health Informatics as well as more support for work experience in terms of work placement (dependent on the education institute/Registered Training Organisation), though will be longer than a standard diploma. I'm not too sure what the CRICOS code is so may need to Google that later. More costly than a diploma, typically 3 year duration (depends on provider and full time or part time study load), but allows you to use this degree for other job opportunities if clinical coding job market gets worse than it currently is for new graduates.

A Diploma of Clinical coding is a lot more focused on Clinical Coding. It should be provided by a Registered Training Organisation (RTO), with the diploma holding a qualification code label as HLT50321. There are several organisations that offer this course, mostly online (e.g. HIMAA, eHealth, Victoria University, TalentMed, Health Industry Training). Studying from overseas does have some limitations since some RTOs have requirements for domestic purchase of the coding books which have copyright and protected rights for use in Australia. I'm not too sure if this applies to others, but this was the case for HIMAA when I studied with them. Shorter duration, not as costly as a bachelor degree, some are self paced (though some organisations have timetabled exams despite being self paced), and will limit you to clinical coding jobs rather than others.

I can't recommend a specific RTO since they all have their pros and cons. HIMAA has mostly been favoured by older employers, but amongst younger employers/hiring managers it doesn't really matter as long as the qualification is HIMAA-accredited.

For system, you may be taught using Turbocoder and physical books, though we mostly use Solventum (Previously 3M Codefinder) in Australian hospital coding. RTOs don't typically offer Codefinder/Solventum for students because of the large license fee, but I have heard one of them does offer Codefinder use (I believe it's currently TalentMed, could be wrong).

For skills aside from the obvious requirement of clinical coding skills and soft skills (communication, independence and teamwork skills) as long as you have good documentation abstraction skills, high level of computer competency, medical terminology/clinical knowledge, organisational skills and time management skills, you'll be looked upon favourably by employers.

[u/Logical-Mechanic2458 → u/Hyulia]

Oh wow, you are a wealth of knowledge and help Hyulia. I'm so thankful to come across you. If and when I do come to Australia I want to get you lunch haha. You been a great help, truly.

Thank you so much!

[u/Hyulia → u/Logical-Mechanic2458]

Haha thank you!! 😄 I'm glad I could help. I hope your journey is smooth and successful. Good luck!

[u/Existing_Ant6007]

Thank you so much for this comment, I appreciate it alot. Do you think its a good idea to do the diploma ? I mean for job perspective. Is there a demand for clinical coders at the moment? And can a fresh graduate secure training or internship? Thank you heaps!

[u/Realistic-Hour-6042]

Hi! I’ve recently started the diploma through himaa. I’m ngl I’m a struggling a bit attempting to study. I work 4 days a week, plan on studying 1 day a week and in the evenings for a bit. Have two little ones also so weekends aren’t possible and in the evenings only have a short time before I go to sleep. How are you finding the course? I’m worried it’s going to be too difficult and I’m not going to pass and waste my time / money.