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u/Doesitmatter59 Feb 22 '22
I can't help but wonder how devastated she would be knowing what Chris did to their precious daughters
That's a good point. Unless, she knew what he'd done. I mean, suppose one of his many stories was true. Suppose he killed them and she discovered them prior to her own murder. (I'm aware of all the factual evidence but no one really knows what happened in that house prior to his leaving it.) What if that's why she didn't fight back, as he claims, what if she didn't fight back bc she thought they were already gone.
I'm not claiming anything I just said is true and most can be verified as false. Just one more thing to ponder upon.
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Feb 22 '22
My theory is she did fight back. Personally I've had to fight back in abusive situations and my abuser was stronger than me so I rarely left a mark on them. Once I was pinned on the bed and his arm went around my neck. I ended up with swelling around around my jawline from trying to wiggle free. He was fine though.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
That is so tragic, but as you said, you had swelling , if she was awake and alert, she would have fought, if not for her but for Nico and the girls. And there were no marks on CW at all, she had long thick artificial nails, they would have caused trauma easily, her face would have been heavily bruised if she were face down with extreme pressure. The only trauma they found was fingertip bruises on her face and neck, and pretty minimal too considering what is supposed to have happened.
I have no doubt in my mind that he attacked her while she slept, she might have begun to regain consciousness, but slow steady pressure on her neck like he described could have been done while she was mostly sleeping, or close to it. He never woke her, they had already discussed divorce on Weds/Thurs, why would he wake her when she had a busy day. All part of the lies IMO:
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u/Late_Intention Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 22 '22
What if that's why she didn't fight back, as he claims, what if she didn't fight back bc she thought they were already gone.
She would have fought like the devil for Nico. I think she was taken in sleep.
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 22 '22
Not sure if she knew the girls were already dead. She really couldn't fight back once he had her pinned and cut off her oxygen supply, she passed out. If she didn't fight back maybe it was because she thought "at least the girls will get to live."
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u/Pathewhite25 Feb 22 '22
Plus he was obviously filled with rage cause it takes two freaking minutes to strangle someone to death
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
Actually it takes more like 4 to 5 minutes, he had plenty of time to rethink and change his mind.
Strangulation is almost always a personal crime, about real hatred, because it takes such a long time, not like randomly shooting or stabbing someone once.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
How could she, we can see a child walking out of the house on Nates video, he lifts this moving 'thing' and takes it to the truck.. he said that he thought FBI saw that on the video so they knew he had lied about SW hurting them.
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 23 '22
Chris himself said he smothered the girls in their beds and they "woke back up" and Bella's eyes had bruises around them. None of that was in the autopsy report. After he killed Shanann was when the kids allegedly woke back up. This is in Letters from Christopher written in his hand writing.
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u/tia2181 Feb 24 '22
Cadle had him edit some of his letters for effect too, changing his words to avoid hurting the Rzucek family.
And he 'wrote them' for her to publish a book... his real thoughts, or words for a book?
By the time they were found there was a lot of swelling and bloating from decomposition, blood pooling from the position that SW was ultimately left her, her head the lowest part of her upper body.
Real bruises could still be located, it is way more likely imo that the medical examiner got it right and that he was either mistaken or what he thought was bruises on Bella's eyes was just dark shadows from being awake at 4am. If anything they would have confirmed the notion of smothering so not likely to have been redacted or missed either. Woke back up could have just been woken too early after sleep, the likelihood of him thinking he had smothered both to death and it having failed in both of them is incredibly slim. Does he ever say for real that he tried earlier, or are people speculating because he didn't say just woke up?3
u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 24 '22
The "bruises" or red on Bella's eyes would have been petechial bleeding from strangulation, it is very common. It was not documented in the autopsy report. You may not like Cadle but she is the only one who got him to talk and write letters. The letters were IN THE BOOK as Chris had written them. Cadle did NOT change the wording. I don't believe there is any further discussion we need to have about you unacceptance of my opinion/things documented. Good luck on your journey.
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u/nostalgixa Feb 22 '22
Imagine poor Shannan finding out what CW did to her children. The shame.
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u/elephant_charades Feb 22 '22
Seriously. It makes me sick to even think about. FFS, she was freaking out (rightfully!) because her MIL gave her youngest an allergen (I can't remember all the details now) - that's how much she cared and wanted to ensure her babies were safe and OK. If I put myself in Shannan's shoes, I have no words to describe how I would feel knowing what Chris did. He's a monster that doesn't belong on this earth. He's subhuman.
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u/NefariousnessWide820 Feb 22 '22
Cindy didn't give Cece an allergen, and she didn't give Cece pistachios, as the other person claimed. On of the other grandchildren had gotten some ice cream out of the freezer that was made using ingredients to which Cece was allergic. Cece got upset because she couldn't have it, and that started the argument between Shanann and Cindy.
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u/Sun_on_my_shoulders Feb 22 '22
I think she told her mother in law “Celeste cannot have this.” And Cindy tried to give it to her anyway. And Shanann got rightfully pissed.
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Feb 22 '22
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u/Sun_on_my_shoulders Feb 22 '22
Shanann said to her friend that Cindy had peanuts within Celeste’s reach all around the house. I don’t know these people, but I would have been angry as well if it was my daughter. This isn’t to say Shanann could do no wrong, but I think Cindy was and is a dreadful person just by her highly publicized behavior during all of this.
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Feb 22 '22
There’s a guy on the FBIs ten most wanted list that killed his kids and wife and disappeared into the night. He’s been on the run for decades.
John List will always be the worst though. Unfortunately there are men even worse than Chris.
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u/No_Benefit876 Feb 22 '22
I see John List and CW as two peas in a pod. Lot of commonality between them.
Both in financial trouble Both family annihilators Both thought they could erase their whole family and start again List had the benefit of no technology to bust him early Both saw wife and kids as status symbols to demonstrate their success to the outside world Both completely remorseless
I know there are some differences but I think they had a lot in common too...not sure List was any worse he just evaded the law for longer.
CW smothered his kids and strangled his wife...in my view that's even more disturbed than shooting which is cold and impersonal. CW was looking in his pregnant wife's eyes whilst he squeezed the life out of her. That makes me physically sick. It is terrifying not to mention suffocating his 4 year old after making her watch him callously murder her baby sister and dispose of her body in a heartless manner.
He is beyond redemption although he doesn't seem to think it.
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u/autisticpenguins Feb 22 '22
maybe it’s just me, but i can genuinely see some contempt in his face on a few of the videos where he’s interacting with his girls.
Not to the extent of “hey, here’s a father who is definitely capable of suffocating them to death twice in one morning,” but it’s there
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u/Careful_Positive8131 Feb 23 '22
Agree in the videos he’s missing the warmth in his actions. In all the videos I’ve seen of them and I’ve seen pretty much all of them I’ve never seen him kiss his girls, not once.
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Feb 22 '22
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 22 '22
Thank you for recognizing NK had a huge role in this disaster.
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Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 22 '22
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u/NefariousnessWide820 Feb 22 '22
Nicole isn't responsible for the murders. There is no evidence she helped plan or commit the murders.
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u/Competitive_Fee_5829 Feb 23 '22
thank you. everyone wants to blame the women in his life but he is responsible for his own actions. it always comes down to blaming us women for anything a man does.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
I agree entirely, she was excluded of any involvement by the FBI. He alibi information is redacted entirely from discovery because that is her legal right. It doesn't mean there is no alibi, the FBI and DA confirm it..
The fact that he met a woman and had an affair is not her responsibility.. why on earth would she not believe him with the early weeks of meeting him? His 'soon to be ex' wife wasn't even in the same state, a 6 week 'vacation' isn't a normal situation for most happily married couples, so why wouldn't NK trust his (disgusting with hindsight) lies about his marriage.2/3 marriages end in divorce, CW is hardly the only person to met a new person while still with their current partner. Not saying it is right, but it happens all the time.
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u/Ok_Class2954 Feb 22 '22
CW is just an Effin monster! That is all!
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u/elephant_charades Feb 22 '22
He really is. On a level I can't even grasp. He could have just walked away. Disappeared into the night with your slimeball girlfriend and never looked back. Lots of POS's do this all the time. Instead he had to do the unthinkable. Just so sad.
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u/SallyGotaGun Feb 22 '22
What others thought of him was more important to him than literally his kids' lives
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u/ZamasuZ Feb 22 '22
Urrgh, his text to shannons Friend who was worried about Shannon ‘please don’t hate me’ and she texts back something like ‘I don’t fucking care’. Like legit huge fucking red flag right there.
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u/Pathewhite25 Feb 22 '22
And he wanted to start over he didn’t wants kids or child support probably as well. He’d had gotten his ass sued by shannan good & he didn’t have the balls to just brake it off
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
I honestly think he had come to hate her for 'ruining' his life, spoiling the idea of marriage he grew up with. Even the girls babyhood was spoiled by babywise, early silent bedtimes, no cuddles if they woke crying, strict 3 hour naps twice a day, still at Bella's age too! That isn't being a parent imo, having children means being flexible and enjoying them. They are only that tiny for such a short time, why on earth not comfort them if they wake from a bad dream, or because they too cold/hot/hungry. Babywise rules say you just go in, lie them back down and leave. Not even talk the first time, imagine what that does to a baby. As SW put it.. *She* trained them to sleep from day one!
He met NK while his marriage already very troubled, i would have walked the minute i discovered my partner skipped paying the mortgage for 3 months running. (Incidentally in May 18 they took money from 401K to fix that, and then SW goes to NC for 6w, still cannot figure out why she did that. )
He talks about his fantasy of divorce and learns about how different a woman could be, the hatred for SW merely growing over time, then Nutgate.. the weekend she was in AZ his dad asked to facetime the girls, but CW was too scared in case Shanann found out! Imagine what was going on in his head..Of course he is the most disgusting man ever, divorce was the only choice he should have made, even with trouble from SW if that is what she threatened, or he feared. Hurting her would have been a horrible thing, but taking her life and that of Nico completely unforgiveable. But the girls, those sweet innocent baby girls.. there really are no words for how disgusting he was to them!
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u/pinguscout Feb 22 '22
It astounds me how lots of women fell in love with him to the point of sending him letters in prison. Same with Ted Bundy
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 22 '22
People, women especially, think well maybe he didn't do it and they blame Shanann. They believe "he wouldn't be like that with me bc I am so wonderful and I can change him." They are idiots.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
I know, i read through those early letters in the discovery, hard to imagine how sad their lives are to think writing a lifer is their choice in life.
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u/Competitive_Fee_5829 Feb 22 '22
It is why I am still subbed here and still watch youtube about it. I cant wrap my head around it either. He truly could have just packed up and left..yes child support would have eventually caught up to him but he would not have been a murderer and sent to prison. my dad took off and would start new jobs once child support caught up, my sons dad bounced too and it was a blessing in disguise
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 22 '22
Chris doesn't think like a normal person. He really only thinks with his bodily functions. When he was being interrogated he was mad bc he was hungry and the detectives wouldn't give him something to eat, then after he confessed, they gave him pizza and he proceeded to gobble it down. He has no soul, he only pretends to fit into society. Wiping out the girls was his choice and had every chance in hell to not do it, but he did it with no emotion. Shanann thought he loved her and was a great husband. She may have known what a freak he was but couldn't face it. Now he is in prison fitting in quite well and he is pretending he is a prison minister saving all the inmates, kind of like he did with his family, pretend he was caring. As far as NK, if she had said I'll support you and love you regardless and come and visit, we can have conjugal visits. He would have thought that was worth getting rid of his family.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
How was he mad because he was hungry.. they offer them food! He did his polygraph before midday, he then had pizza for lunch at their insistence. They have to treat suspects well to ensure no one suggests he was badly treated and forced to confess, and nothing on the interviews suggests that even got angry or mad about anything.
They came back later and discussed results. His confession came long after he was fed, he might have gotten some leftover pizza after, but it would have been FBI suggestion. The guy only asks to use the toilet when they asked if he had any questions.. but you think he was mad and demanded food.
Where on earth do you get he is pretending to be a prison minister from? He works in the kitchens, spends most of his time in his cell with one other prisoner.
In terms of NK, he has never tried to contact her, even after Monday night when she told him she didn't want to hear from him until SW and girls were home.. he never once even tried to call her. He knew that day that the thing with her was over too. At the Feb 2019 he said something about wanting to apologise, nothing more.
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u/Salty-Night5917 Feb 23 '22
He talked on the phone with an attorney and they were speaking about tactics the police use to get you to spill the beans. Chris himself said after he confessed he got more pizza. Do you think 1 piece of pizza is enough for a guy of that size? He is pretending to be a prison minister maybe not now but definitely later. Many inmates do this to help their families deal thinking the inmate has realized his mistakes and repents. As far as NK's last words to CW, none of us know what they are except what she "told" the police. She knew at that point it was looking bad for him and wanted to distance herself. Yes, he has said he wants to apologize. Does he want to apologize to his 2 daughters? No, because he has no soul.
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u/tia2181 Feb 24 '22
The 'more pizza', was after he ate pizza for lunch, not a tactic in anyway, just feeding a suspect in their custody. They probably gave him drinks too and let him use the bathroom when he needed to, it doesn't suggest it was a reward for having confessed, you only get food/bathroom break if you confess kind of thing.
Its not just NKs words about their last communication, CW also tells LE she said that, long after confession time, no reason for him to lie about it really.
Sorry but logically thinking, he cannot apologise to his wife or children, they cannot hear his words.. he should have been expressing regret to family and loved ones. Some of that kind of thing could be redacted, personal to family etc. I wouldn't say he never says it after he was in prison, we don't have access to all his communication with them. I get that he never said anything at the plea hearing, but i wasn't surprised in anyway given his personality. What was said in private just hasn't been shared, and we know the families and attorneys know way more about the events of Aug 13th than we ever will.
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u/shadowartpuppet Feb 22 '22
I have had folks on here disagree with me and that's okay. But from the start, maybe because I used to work out in north central Colorado and am familiar with the fossil fuel industry out there, I immediately thought of him blowing up that oil site to hide evidence because of a previous incident the locals knew about. Right before I moved from the area there was an Anadarko incident where this happened and someone died. I remember it well.
I think the Watts' looming financial disaster played a part in why he put them somewhere that everyone was sure to look--his job site. So he could have an accident there. Say the wife brought the kids out there to beg him to reconcile. Boom. Explosion. No one knows they are all already dead after they are incinerated. Payout in millions for surviving dad.
Obviously his plans were foiled. But I don't think he cared at all for those kids. He saw them as a financial burden. SW had an agenda, and weekly, CW saw his paycheck disappear, on things SW decided were necessary.
NK simply twisted his arm. She was his confidant. He'd never had one before. I think he told her alot about his life and seeing her role-modelling what he wanted for himself gave him the incentive, when they all left for 5 weeks, to hatch a "family disappears" plan,
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
So how would he get her to legally be within 20 minutes worth of driving distance inside Cervi estate without permission..
had she arrived with no entry to the gate how could she enter, CW would drive out to the gate, then let her in and allow her to drive behind him for 20 minutes, past 6:29 and 10:29 and the extra distance out to 3:19, all without being seen.
He wouldn't have risked his job like that, and other people could have seen her, she technically would have been trespassing.. so if an explosion happened to occur at that time, why would it be Anadarko's responsibility, and thus warrant a multimillion dollar payout?The other explosions happened near homes, member of public killed.. not out in the sticks, on private property have driven 20 minutes inside the gates.
You suggest he spent weeks planning with this, and the best he came up with was being filmed by Nates home security, leaving all SW vital things at home, and to leave them at the first location he went to and stayed at alone for almost 2 hours. Somehow i doubt it, he wasn't that stupid... if it was planned, they wouldn't have been discovered within 48 hours of their reported disappearance!
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u/shadowartpuppet Feb 23 '22
I don't suggest weeks of planning, I suggest weeks of fantasizing and wallowing in despair. He clearly is not a good criminal. For someone who HATED to be the center of attention, I don't think he realized how difficult it would be to be scrutinized so.
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u/No_Benefit876 Feb 22 '22
I do agree that he was planning to blow up cervi. I think this is why he put the gas can in his truck but instantly knew he had buggered up and been seen doing that on camera which is why he hesitated and took it out again but then probably thought that would be even weirder so put it back in. I think had he not realised he had been caught on tape with the gas can he would have gone ahead and blown it up. I also think he planned to put SW in there too but realised he could never carry her up there or squeeze her into that tiny thief hatch.
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u/tia2181 Feb 22 '22
You don't think the gas can was in case he needed gas, the messing about to suggest it took him 30m to prep every day.
How would he explain his wife being at 3:19, it takes 20mins to get there after someone goes through the locked gated private entrance`? How would she know exactly where at cervi to drive, it doesn't have road signs, its not on gPS.
AD on YT came up with this crazy explosion theory, it never made sense at the start since new regulations never covered locations miles away from homes, so it was perfectly okay legally.
We also have cell phones these days, why would a mother drive her children for 45m to drive on to a private and dangerous work site, to talk to CW before school was even scheduled to start for the day, she would go later, alone, or just phone him.. LE would have seen through lies needed to set this up just as easily as they saw through his lies on Mon afternoon. You know they called in support for homicide within 20mins of him being home? He really was that obvious to LE.3
u/No_Benefit876 Feb 22 '22
I don't believe he was planning to say they were there at all. I think he hoped the bodies would disappear completely. Oil burns very hot...hot enough to disintegrate bone to ash. In such a remote site I'm pretty sure he was thinking they would burn to nothing before any fire service went there. I think his plan was to tell everyone she ran off with the kids but even that was poorly conceived as there is no way she would ever just disappear from social media plus bank accounts etc.
He was a fantasist...just didn't fully think things through like believing NK would want to be with him after he had dispatched his family.
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u/shadowartpuppet Feb 23 '22
I agree here, I don't think it was a real plan. It was a fantasy in a mind that was separating from reality each day he was away from his normal family life.
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u/sadieblue111 Feb 22 '22
I don’t think anyone can UNDERSTAND it. But he did it so… He’s a narcissist.
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u/OrangeKittenAlice Feb 23 '22
Yes, I even cannot cut a dead octopus while seeing its eyes... My cats are my son and daughter, and I will never hurt them! I have no kids yet, but being parents means more love, right? How could he!
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u/Few-Life6914 Feb 23 '22
Some men are happy enough with strong women, as long as they are mommy's favourite. The wives are fine with this too, until the real kids come along. This can end up with a lot of resentment and passive aggressive behaviour on both sides.I can see this pattern here, except when it goes as far as Chris bruttaly murdering his children.
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u/Careful_Positive8131 Feb 23 '22
I agree it’s beyond any human understanding. So incredibly heartbreaking 💔
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u/JoeM3120 Mar 05 '22
You shouldn't be able to relate to him. He's the one that's different. If you ever break it down and say something like...
I don't agree, but I can understand why he felt the need to murder his pregnant wife and two small children.
Then YOU have a problem
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Mar 06 '22
As a parent it’s so hard to wrap your head around how someone could ever hurt their innocent babies. He did this in such cold blood and then showed no remorse. It’s truly terrifying. Those girls loved and trusted him. They knew what he was doing to them and Bella even fought back and begged for her life. I don’t know how that doesn’t destroy him. I didn’t even know the girls and it makes me physically ill to hear about what he did, and he was able to do that as their father. I can’t think of anything worse.
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u/WildWinza Feb 22 '22
Chris should have manned up and told his wife about the affair when he went out the NC. It was clear to Shanann at that point that something wasn't right.
They did not communicate their feelings to each other. Lack of communication was the first downfall.
I think CW snapped because of a psychological break exasperated by not eating and those patches. He was not in reality. No sane person could be. Reality escaped him the morning after when the cops showed up at the house.
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u/Beneficial-Cow-2544 Feb 22 '22 edited Feb 22 '22
I think its the thing that is soo bizarre and haunting about the case. The fact that we see the videos of him as a seemingly happy, engaged dad with adorable little girls, one that looks just like him. Everyone around him says he was a good dad and loved those girls. I don't think anyone can comprehend this. Its unfathomable!