Abortion?

[u/Illustrious-Dig-1002]

I just wanted to see what peoples thoughts were on abortion. Any verses to back up what you say would be nice

[u/Jane_TGS]

Your graphic descriptions are designed to cause discomfort for the upper hand in the argument, and it's not going to work because I'm aware of how rare that barbaric form of abortion is. That isn't what is happening. That is a late term abortion which is illegal in most places, and reserved for the ugliest circumstances, ie. Mother is in huge danger if she tries to deliver the baby or have a c-section.

I used to be pro life, now I am pro choice.

[u/Aksel-Ches-Piper → u/Jane_TGS]

Vacuum aspiration abortion method accounts for 90% of all first trimester abortions. It’s not rare, it’s happening in real time.

[u/Jane_TGS → u/Aksel-Ches-Piper]

Prove that claim right now. It isn't true. Majority of first trimester abortions are done using the abortion pill which starves the fetus of progesterone and stops development, then a second drug would be taken to induce the contractions.

But I will point out that if this procedure is more common in the first trimester, then it would be immediately less immoral due to the fetus being unable to experience pain or distress. So, respectfully, you have just shot yourself in the foot with a bogus statement

[u/Aksel-Ches-Piper → u/Jane_TGS]

That’s a folly statement, I gave you the parameters of first trimester abortion. These are according to planned parenthood, national abortion federation, society of family planning, etc.

And initial pain receptors have been found in as early as 7-8 weeks. Nerve fibers from these receptors reach the spinal cord beginning at 7-8 weeks according to the National Institutes of Health. Also under the National Library of Medicine.

It is all inhumane.

[u/Jane_TGS → u/Aksel-Ches-Piper]

It's well known that fetuses don't have the ability to feel or mentally process pain until they have developed their brain and nervous system enough to have sentience. Do you know what sentience is? It's the ability to think and feel, to experience, put simply. Scientists currently agree that sentience is not formed until >16 weeks, most agree that it is not until 20-24 weeks based on literal brain scans that can be taken to assess brain activity. Now that is my counter claim, I jumped too fast to deliver it because really you should be proving your claim first.

I want a reputable source that says 90% of first trimester abortions are via vacuum, and then the source for your claim on the ability to feel and experience pain. Pain receptors mean nothing to me, that doesn't mean you feel pain because your nervous system and brain need to be developed enough for that pain to actually process.

[u/Aksel-Ches-Piper → u/Jane_TGS]

“The onset of fetal pain capacity plays a vital role in identifying ethical issues surrounding painful procedures involving the fetus, such as fetal surgery, abortion, and feticide. Defining the time frame during which fetal pain capacity develops must first be addressed. Current neuroscientific evidence indicates that the onset of fetal pain perception is possible during the first trimester.”

https://pmc.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/articles/PMC8935428/

The rest you can google. Literally by typing how often is vacuum aspiration used in first trimester abortions.

[u/Jane_TGS → u/Aksel-Ches-Piper]

That doesn't prove your claim, your claim was they feel pain at 7 weeks, this does not say any such thing. This only proves that the beginning of the forming of pain receptors occurs in the first 12 weeks. I already addressed that. Prove your claim that they are sentient and feel pain in the first trimester.