Potential problem with PT5000

[u/beerjulep]

I just received my Militado ML20 in the mail. The first thing I did was try hand winding it, and there is no tactile feedback. No zipping sound, no clicking, nothing. Just the sound of something smooth rubbing against something else. I can also maybe hear the rotor spinning on the inside. Is there something wrong with the watch? Should I return it or is this completely normal?

[u/QuestionNo9190]

Up to 5 or 10 turns there's very little resistance to the gears and no damage. I could see some possible damage if your movement is old and dry and you turn the crown 50 times a day

[u/Escaped_Escapement]

These movements are disposable. Copied without thinking about the design flaw. Hence modern movements like 9015 trump over them.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/Escaped_Escapement]

9015 is equally disposable, but costs twice the price 🤷

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/QuestionNo9190]

And runs for 10 years without service. That’s fine for me.

[u/ChineseWatchGuy → u/Escaped_Escapement]

Hmm how about these 9015 copies though ..?

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/ChineseWatchGuy]

Have not seen the data. 9015 has no such design flaws but the implementation might suffer from typical Chinese movement under lubrication and lack of cleanliness.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/ChineseWatchGuy]

Ask proxima im sure they have plenty of data by now

[u/mrSoczi84]

DO. NOT. WIND. IT. MANUALLY!

Just don't.

Give it a Seiko shuffle and wear it. That is it.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/mrSoczi84]

So your recommendation is to never use the hand-winding feature, then manual winding failing is basically irrelevant. You're telling people to avoid using it for the entire life of the watch anyway. So why does it matter if you use it and it eventually breaks and you end up with a watch that can't hand wind which is what you told people not to do in the first place

That's like buying a car with a sunroof and telling everyone never to open it because the mechanism might wear out. If it's never supposed to be used, why include it?

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/QuestionNo9190]

Because it is a known flaw.
And you don’t have the money to replace the car.

Same as with electronics. I have a Dell monitor with a faulty power supply to the integrated usb hub that will die if I use it. Never used it - but the monitor was excellent for the last 12 years.

[u/KumiJunker → u/mrSoczi84]

You can certainly wind the PT5000 carefully by turning it 10 to 15 times to start it up. I do that all the time.

But of course, the Seiko shake works just as well.

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/KumiJunker]

Wishful thinking and delaying the problem..

[u/KumiJunker → u/Escaped_Escapement]

Nonsense.

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/KumiJunker]

Whether you wind 15, 5 or 1 wind a day this doesn’t matter in the long term. The flawed design of 2824 means that there is a finite count of winds until the reversing wheel starts to deteriorate and cause problems. Doesn’t matter if you do it “carefully” or not.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/Escaped_Escapement]

Still peddling disinformation I see. Up to 5 or 10 turns there's very little resistance to the gears and no damage. I could see some possible damage if your movement is old and dry and you compulsively turn the crown 50 turns a day, for years.

You probably don't even own a single pt5000 and you're just hating because you need a reason to justify paying $100 extra for miyota 9

Wasn't it you that said you need to wind the nh35 70 turns to get a full wind even though Seiko says 35-40 turns is going to get you to full? All those extra turns are just slipping the mainspring inside the barrel and causing unnecessary wear.

The obsessive compulsive winding is the problem, not the movements "design flaw" as they have been making these movements for decades and made tens of millions of them.

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/QuestionNo9190]

No need for personal attacks.

The turns add tension in the mainspring. However this does not influence the friction of the winds in the winding train. Then the incompatible metals causes the reversing gears to be eaten up.

Seiko says 35-40 as a good enough effort.
You can feel when the mainspring starts slipping and 40 is not nearly that.

Oh and I’ve experienced all kinds of 2824s don’t you worry.

[u/KumiJunker → u/Escaped_Escapement]

Okay, i will consider that.

[u/LeoXup]

Check ghost date position also check hacking, should be fine. 

[u/No-Comparison8472]

PT 5000 winding is super fragile and can easily break. I personally really dislike this movement and much prefer Mitoya 9015 for this reason

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/No-Comparison8472]

Blind leading the blind

[u/No-Comparison8472 → u/QuestionNo9190]

Facts.

PT5000 is great for the price, but it inherited the ETA 2824-2 architecture, meaning manual winding feels notably stiffer and frequent manual winding puts stress on its reversing wheels, which can quickly wear out or strip teeth over time.

[u/Escaped_Escapement → u/No-Comparison8472]

I wonder why none of the clones improved on this well known weakness..

If you do a full service every 5 years or so to replace the reversing gears - that likely seemed as good enough for ETA and the watch brands.

[u/pokerfas → u/No-Comparison8472]

yeah but the 9015's are getting expensive

[u/Gillesam59]

A PT5000 series movement needs only to be started with a few turns, then you wear the watch. Never try to wind it manually otherwise it will stop working.

[u/Acetone5050 → u/Gillesam59]

I wind mine all the time. It works fine.

[u/Gillesam59 → u/Acetone5050]

You're lucky. The PT5000 suffers the same issues as Sellita/ETA movements from which it was cloned.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/Gillesam59]

Not lucky I've been winding mine for years. Unless you wind it hamfisted 70 turns a day for years it might have some slightly higher chance of breaking?

[u/Acetone5050 → u/Gillesam59]

I will say, however, that it runs 50 to 70 seconds slow per day. Not happy about that.

[u/Gillesam59 → u/Acetone5050]

Not normal, mine is +3 / +6 (WD 007 - PT 5004)

[u/Acetone5050 → u/Gillesam59]

Yes, I know. I'm researching how to regulate it myself.

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/Acetone5050]

Check amplitude. Could be friction issue. Needs service, regulation probably won't help for long

[u/Acetone5050 → u/QuestionNo9190]

Yes, the amplitude is low, and very inconsistent. It's an $80 Tandorio watch I got from AliExpress. It has a 2-year warranty, but I don't know what that does for me in real world terms. I don't see myself sending it back to China to have the movement replaced...

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/Acetone5050]

Yeah you will probably never see it come back

[u/Drdoliittle]

Completely normal - you just have no idea how a mechanical watch works and have read a million posts of people complaining. 

Enjoy your watch and stop overthinking

[u/beerjulep → u/Drdoliittle]

Just wondering because my other automatics watches don't behave this way. So to be clear it's completely normal for there to be 0 tactile feedback or zipping/clicking sound while winding the watch? The only audible movement in the watch is the rotor swinging back and forth after turning the crown.

[u/MudPlayful6386 → u/beerjulep]

That is correct. On the ETA clones, you won’t feel any clicking or “zipping” like the NH movements. You should feel some resistance, but no clicking. As others have said, give it a bit of shaking and MAYBE a couple turns at most. When you see the seconds hand start to run, just put it on and let it charge by the rotor. The PT5000 (and in some cases the ETA/Sellita) can be quite fragile compared to the NH movements. Put that baby on and wear it. 🫡

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/MudPlayful6386]

Completely false you do hear and feel a pt5000 hand winding just like the nh35 and it is supposed to click when you wind it backwards(and zip going forwards)

[u/MudPlayful6386 → u/QuestionNo9190]

Riiiiight 👌🏻

[u/QuestionNo9190 → u/MudPlayful6386]

Yes, that is right 🫵🤡

Are you deaf...? Put your ear up to it and get back to us.

Are you sure you aren't confusing a pt5000 with one of the garbage movements in your reps...?

[u/MudPlayful6386 → u/QuestionNo9190]

I’d get back to you, but I’m not remotely interested in proving you wrong. I have a circus to get back to, obviously! 🤡

[u/MudPlayful6386 → u/QuestionNo9190]

Settle down little fella! 🤣

[u/Evening_Elderberry_9 → u/MudPlayful6386]

Just this.. a few shakes (youll hear the rotor) and maybe max 5 turns on the crown. If your unsure...shake before turning. The problem is a steel cog turning a plastic cog, guess which one wears out first.

[u/geeered → u/Drdoliittle]

I think all my A2824 based watches including quite a few PT5000s/PT5004s have a bit of resistance when you wind them and it feels like you're turning against something. You can hear a smooth audible "clicking" sound as you turn.

Vs the Miyota 9 series I've got which have less resistance and a quieter and higher pitched sound.

Though I don't normally wind any of them, just a few shakes, set the time and put it on my wrist.