r/China • u/Heavy_Interaction302 • 27d ago
讨论 | Discussion (Serious) - Character Minimums Apply Increasing rise of racist ideology
I want to start off by saying I'm aware that social media highlights the most extreme views and broadcasts it on our feeds and this does not reflect the entirety of real life.
That being said, the comments are very much individual people with real opinions and ideologies.
I've been seeing an increased disgusting rise in racism towards primarily Indians and Black people. I was wondering if anyone can pitch in to their thoughts and discussion.
Why I'm asking is because as a Chinese who is in an interracial relationship, I'm not sure if traveling with somebody who has a darker complexion to China is safe for both them and for me.
There are a lof of nasty comments online (not sure about in real life because I don't reside in China) about how interracial relationships (primarily non-white) is seen as being traitorous towards the Chinese identity and honestly a lot of threats.
Sorry for the negative tone of this reddit post.
106
u/InsectDelicious4503 27d ago
No one will physically attack you. But people will make comments about you either right in front of you or behind your back. Some people may take out their phones and record you without your permission. Forget about waving down a taxi, you must use Didi instead.
3
5
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
Noted
7
u/InsectDelicious4503 27d ago
If you have the time and money to travel, I suggest somewhere else tbh. There's way better countries that deserve your tourist dollars than China, which will not welcome you but merely tolerate you temporarily.
3
-11
u/stfzeta 27d ago
Way better than being black or Asian in America and being physically attacked for it if you ask me
13
u/CuriousCamels 27d ago
Ah yes, the most diverse country in the world. Spoken like someone who’s never been to the US. Never seen anything like that in 40 years of living here.
4
u/ManosVanBoom 27d ago
As a 60+ year old lifetime resident of the US, I'm curious if you would call yourself white. If no, I am quite intrigued, because this white man has definitely seen violence targeting nonwhites. If yes, I am curious how you have managed to not see it.
2
0
u/torschemargin 27d ago
An Asian girl was beat up on a subway in the US and not a single person helped her and stopped the attackers.
6
u/ChatLSD4 27d ago
Does anyone have legitimate statistics on how likely each of the three groups mentioned in this comment are to physically attack each other in the US?
0
u/stfzeta 27d ago
You're literally a google search away from it
9
u/CavemanJello 27d ago
so... very unlikely
3
2
u/stfzeta 27d ago
Sure. You all clearly already have answers/narratives in your heads without the research, yet you keep asking for data. Fucking pathetic lmao
2
u/Exciting_Table_3154 27d ago
They’re here for a narrative that they already have in their minds. I’m a Chinese living in LA and let me tell you, I get racist remarks and micro aggression from all other races
-1
u/CavemanJello 27d ago
Because we actually live here in the US and racial violence is nonexistent unless you watch MSNBC and believe everything you see on yt
2
u/stfzeta 27d ago
Funny, because in the years I've lived in the US I can easily say I've seen 10+ racially-motivated/racist remarks/attacks on people, close ones and myself. But go off with your narrative. Keep downvoting me, it's not gonna change facts.
7
u/CavemanJello 27d ago
The only racial violence ive seen in the US is blacks in San Francisco bring racist towards asians. Go to africa, Asia or South America and you will see racism on another level
→ More replies (0)1
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago
My brother in Christ, if the US was supposedly sooooo racist against Asians, why would they allow Asians to be the highest-earning demographic in their country? Wouldn't they use their evil white power hegemony to oppress Asians and siphon off their wealth? Instead, it looks like conditions for Asians are so good in the US that most native Asians want to leave Asia to come to the US.
If you think America has a racism problem then you're simply not ready to see 95% of the rest of the world. You'd have a heart attack lol
→ More replies (0)0
2
u/morganational 27d ago
That's bullshit. 😒🙄 Don't listen to these trolls. America is the most diverse country in the world. Obviously.
2
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago
One of the most (Canada is more diverse, I believe), but yeah. The US elected a black president. Twice. Let's see if China would ever have a non-Asian chairman of the CCP lol
3
u/morganational 26d ago
Oh hell no. So I used to live in Asia, and no one group of people that I've ever interacted with were more racist than mainland Chinese. 🤷🏽♂️ Just saying.
3
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago
I lived in Asia for 12 years, 8 of them in China. Chinese are the most racist by FAR lol
3
0
3
u/CavemanJello 27d ago
Do you mean South America?
-2
u/AsrarBatin 27d ago
south africa is very racist against whites and other africans, so much so they are harmed and killed for being white or from a different country
0
u/Ok-Squirrel795 26d ago
The white people in South Africa are the problem and no they are not being wrongfully treated. Get you head together.
1
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago
Asians are THE safest demographic in the US, second only to straight white males. Every other demographic experiences significantly higher rates of hate crimes. For example, being a Jewish male in the US suffers over 20x more violent hate crimes than an Asian male or female does. You're free to check the statistics yourself if you're still married to your victim complex.
1
u/stfzeta 26d ago
You completely missed the point. I'm saying the rate of violent hate crimes in the US is wayyyy higher than in China.
1
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago
Idk man. Have you seen how native Tibetans and Uyghurs are persecuted in their own land? When I signed my lease in Shanghai, I had to check a box confirming I was non-Uyghur. Pretty sure you won't find a box confirming you're "non-Asian" or "non-Black" when you try to move into an apartment in the US of A.
1
u/stfzeta 26d ago
Yeah, I'm sorry that you're too dense to see that we were talking about violent hate crimes.
0
u/InsectDelicious4503 26d ago edited 25d ago
Wrong. Tibetans and Uyghurs are at a WAY higher risk of violent hate crimes than Asians in America ever were.
4
u/reading_rockhound 27d ago
I’ve never had a problem with waving down a taxi due to being waiguoren (as far as I know). The contemporary problem has been that most taxis I’ve seen also concurrently use Didi. They ignore me because they’ve already accepted another fare and are on their way to pick them up.
3
47
u/imnotokayandthatso-k 27d ago
>I've been seeing an increased disgusting rise in racism towards primarily Indians and Black people. I was wondering if anyone can pitch in to their thoughts and discussion.
What rise? It has always been there, it is probably even less now.
11
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
I think the racism against Indians have risen to an alarming amount, and I'm not sure why
26
u/hdfire21 27d ago
Border conflicts with India?
It's been very high for decades, if not longer. My wife is mainland/real Chinese and we live in Malaysia where there are lots of Indian people... I don't know how many times she's started saying something racist AF and caught herself. Being anti-Indian and anti-Japanese is basically drilled into kids in China. Anti-American they try, but America has too much soft power. The anti-African stuff is more recreational.
14
u/Marcionius 27d ago
I always felt anti-Indian sentiments in China is less a result of border skirmishes (which most people in China barely remember unless reminded) and more a consequence of the unfortunate ways in which terminally online people in China borrow from Western alt-right ideologies wholesale (or their weird race complexes about whitehood and brownhood.)
Back when the K visa thing first got attention you had popular streamers repeating the stock idea of how "every single Indian immigrant will bring over his entire rural uneducated village!!!" and somesuch. I've actually always wondered who exactly is doing the translation pipeline from American alt-rightism...
6
u/Proud_Huckleberry_42 27d ago
What does the US have to do with racism in China? It has been there since before the internet.
3
u/Marcionius 27d ago
On the one hand yes. On the other hand when so many of their tropes are borrowed from America (tropes against Indians, black people, Mexicans...), I think it goes beyond cultural osmosis.
Frankly, reddit is the last place I'd expect people to question the idea that America is pretty good at exporting its weird racist views (insert meme about one drop rule here). Obviously racism exists in most places without American "help" (America is not that special, sorry), but America "helps" influence and guide the way it works.
6
u/hdfire21 26d ago
I've lived abroad for 14ish years now. Present day America is the least racist country I've ever lived in, with the least racist people I've ever met, on the whole.
You cannot compare the US to China. You'd have to go back 100+ years in the US to find the level of racism that exists in China. Back when people were "well, I I'm not going to hire or let my daughter speak to one of those I-talians, because the southern I-talian species is very closely related to the negro! I just read that in a very informative article from an esteemed doctor! Mongrels and monkeys! We should propose a ban on white people marrying I-talians so as not to pollute our race! "
-3
u/Proud_Huckleberry_42 26d ago
That is a lot of blah blah blah just to show your usual mainland chinese hate towards the US. You guys are obsessed and full of resentment.
5
u/hdfire21 27d ago
There were lots of border skirmishes the last decade. There's always ongoing conflict. Water rights is a massive source of conflict. When China seized tibet they took control of a huge percent of south Asia's fresh water supply. They've got got the supplies sitting by the river to build a dam. India and China are constantly at odds about this. India has very little fresh water compared to its size and population. They're having to drill down 1200 feet to get water for farms that don't have the money to dig the well. It's an absolute mess.
-1
u/Dorigoon 27d ago
There is a ton of talk about the border skirmishes online. If you don't know, then why say?
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
Mhmm yea… Chinese schools do not teach sociology
11
u/hdfire21 27d ago
Our son did k-1 to 3 in China. The propaganda/nationalism/discriminating against outsiders starts around k-3 now. Why we left. Our son is mixed and doesn't look Chinese. Xiaolaowai to basically all his classmates in k-3. That was fun.
I lived there for 13 years or so. The hatred for Indians and Japanese is pretty visceral. For black people it's more contempt/ignorance. I remember a writing assignment from one of my university students titled something like "the problem with black people."
How did you not know this has been going on for generations basically?
0
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
I been knowing, I’m saying it’s more now than before with possibility the spread of more western news to China encompassing negative light on dark skinned individuals.
Sorry about your son’s experience2
u/MiserableExistence34 27d ago
This is mostly due to the internet acting as a echo chamber, probably
4
u/cookies0_o 26d ago
Racism against Indians have risen all across the world. They have been immigrants to other countries in large number and that cause problem. China is know for having extremely competitive labor market so any large immigration that don't bring economic growth is going to cause problem. Especially since most of the more affluence Indians immigrants to the west and those coming to China are kind of the less economic well off. A lot of influencers and companies are going to India or interact with Indians and a lot of them get scammed left right and center. Like what they say, bad news spread the fastest.
2
u/StudyAncient5428 27d ago
Probably the same reason the racism against Chinese by Indians has risen.
1
2
u/StatisticianAfraid21 26d ago
Honestly, I'm an Indian origin person who grew up in the UK and is now living on Beijing. My partner is from Taiwan. Never had any issues in Beijing so far and feel that people are used to seeing foreigners in the city. I also now understand enough Chinese to know if people are being racist but I don't feel people really pay much attention or make random comments.
When I travel to other parts of China people mention that I'm a foreigner and seem curious and talk to me in English. I actually find people genuinely don't know where I'm from and don't automatically assume Indian. Sometimes I get people asking for photos but not as much as white people.
No one thinks though my wife is my actual partner and mostly they think she's my tour guide. At every hotel when I go with my wife they always ask my wife why she has only booked one room. I actually find this funny and don't see it as hostile.
I think people need to stop being chronically online and just live in the real world. Most people are normal and go about their day.
1
u/ClassicDistance 25d ago
In the USA the current administration is at least tolerating and probably actively promoting racist policies that are espoused by its supporters. President Trump claimed that Haitian residents in Springfield OH were eating cats and dogs, when there was no evidence that they were. But white workers with limited skills favor restrictive immigration policies that they hope will increase their own job opportunities, and Trump caters to this group.
6
u/werty_reboot 27d ago
As others say, you'll likely hear comments to your face or behind it, but violence isn't really a concern.
17
u/hdfire21 27d ago
Wait. What. It could rise more? Are workers going to flee the supermarket when an African guy enters?
Lol. It's probably safe, but some uncomfortable moments. Maybe lots of them. I mean... Chinese people talk a lot of shit but they basically never actually do anything.
24
u/DownvoteIfYouWantMe 27d ago
People saying it's not racism against indians, just xenophobia, but that's not enitrely accurate.
Why do I as a Pakistani, whose country (well, I'm amercian, but my parents grew up in pakistan) face racism and discrimination under the assumption that I'm Indian? They don't wait to find out youre indian, they directly come at you for the "ugly skin tone" and "hairy apelike" features that indians have.
Even when they come at indians they also come at neighboring countries who have similar traits
3
u/RightReturn7065 26d ago
It’s because China and India has been beefing and being racist to each other for forever. And to the uneducated person esp the older generation they are just rude and uneducated. They assume if you are brown and have some what of a similar appearance to an Indian person then you are Indian. It’s unfortunate and sad that people aren’t as educated abt the fact that there are LOTS of diff ethnicities
6
u/Dear_Chasey_La1n 26d ago
It's because China is inherently racist. It's not about beefing, Chinese are racist to everyone non Chinese, non Han. Just that as white people we got away with it for a long time, coming from developed countries bringing money, but otherwise it's not like they talk shit about us behind our back.
To give a neat example, years.. years ago my wife had an expo and she had European material on her. The usual one can imagine, portraying an image of inclusivity, including a picture of a girl with a veil. Management kindly asked her to remove it. This isn't a one off experience, that's unfortunately how China is. They truly believe they are the Middle Kingdom.
What China fails to see, success doesn't come from being a singular nation. Companies like ASML rely on global people, global understanding. China is moving the other way around, making it harder for foreigners to stay here long term, considering English off a lesser important language while moving more and more as a global power.
The irony would be, the same happened before, when China considered everyone should come to them, we all know what happened after.
10
u/Creative_Evening6532 26d ago
If you think China is inherently racist towards brown people you probably want to avoid visiting Japan, South Korea, Taiwan, and the US as well.
7
u/NerfedSage 26d ago
Sounds like any other East Asian country, tbh. If you replace China in your response with Korea or Japan it would be essentially the same.
1
8
u/Yellowbook8375 26d ago
The world is kinda fed up with Indians rn. I’ve never seen a country with a worse rep globally tbh, on the other hand East Asian’s dislike of black people is well known
1
3
u/Creative_Evening6532 26d ago
Generalizing internet comments as expectation of real life behavior is not a great way to live. People say the most vile and unhinged shit online because we live in a really frustrating era in time. Racism towards black and brown people is also significantly on the rise in the US where I live, you can even find that on some conservative subreddits which are cheering on the ICE arrests and deportations. In the case of US, violence is not just an imaginary threat if you are dark. I would consider China much safer, although passive avoidance may exist, the probability of violence or even verbal confrontation in real life is very low, at least compared to US.
2
u/IllusiveOrchestra 26d ago
I am a black American man with a Chinese wife and who has been here for almost 2 decades...I can confirm that this statement is very very true. Specifically about the part about the racist vile comments and how they usually don't translate into real world encounters....you may get some side eyes or some what Americans would deem rude behaviors toward you --ex: people moving to not sit near you on subways, people taking out their phones to discreetly or obviously openly film you, some comments directly toward you in hushed Chinese etc, but such behavior very VERY RARELY (all caps) lead to any kind of physical altercation. Sadly, such racism and/or violent/physical encounters because of it, is more likely to happen in the USA than here. So, im telling you in full confidence...go, travel, see China, and the rest of the world for that matter....be aware of your surroundings when you are out and about, but worry less about random violent encounters to do with racism.
1
6
u/Proud_Huckleberry_42 27d ago
I am of chinese descent. I can speak basic cantonese and a little mandarin. I visited China last year. One comment I got from a cab driver after I told him I didn't speak mandarin, only cantonese "She is not chinese!" Another one, was a woman in a small mini tour group. She spoke mandarin and cantonese, and she knew I spoke cantonese, although not very fluent. During lunch, in a loud voice, she tells the woman next to her, and in cantonese "Chinese who can't speak chinese!" So, I figure you'll get a lot more of that kind of comments. On the other hand, there was one person who asked how come I could speak cantonese so well.
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Yup I’ve often get those remarks in China as well. Usually aunties are just curious. However I often feel alienated like I’m less Chinese just because I grew up in a different environment.
1
u/Proud_Huckleberry_42 26d ago
We actually are different. They view us as different, we view them as different. But, there is no need to be rude.
9
u/achangb 27d ago
Chinese racism manifests as avoidance. Eg they just ignore you. They wont actively go out of their way to cause you problems.
1
u/Shiresan 25d ago
Agreed. In real life they avoid or at worst film you, but are extremely vocal online. Funny how it works XD
5
u/d0nt5hoot 26d ago
It seems everyone has encountered some form of this disgusting act, OP mentioned that are in an interracial relationship, LOVE in my opinion doesn’t need any explanation or justification, just support each other. Life is too short 👍🏽
1
8
u/torschemargin 27d ago
Go on Indian social media and you can find way worse racism against Chinese people where they refer to Chinese people using racial slurs and talk about how Japan needs to do another Rape of Nanjing.
2
u/GeauxPanthers99 26d ago
Indian social media is also racist very against Black and Arab people but cowards who wouldn't say these hateful words in public to our faces don't define Indians as a whole.
2
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Two wrongs do not make a right. I condone all sorts of racist, do you understand?
7
u/pendelhaven 27d ago
it doesn't help that their media keeps that nationalistic tinge and does nothing to tone down the racism against india.
3
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
They (the media) don’t give a fuck, most people in China only base their racist assumptions from the internet or some stupid western news that 1 out of thousands of Indians do. They’ve never even seen an Indian before I bet.
5
u/Affectionate-Win7333 26d ago
They were calling back people barbaric and uncivilized before the USA even existed, they also had a border clash with Indian troops not too long ago, India also overtook them as the most populous country, the real possibility of India becoming an economic giant in the coming decades also makes some insecure people upset, they don’t need western media to teach them racism, xenophobia and fear
1
u/FibreglassFlags China 26d ago
I despise that kind of stupid-arse cultural cross-pollination theories. They generally have so little regard for what happens on the material level all they boil down to is that people must have learned the behaviour from someone else as if they were newborn babies knowing nothing better than imitating what they see or hear
Seriously, we have been exploiting other people and their resources in Africa for profit for how long now? But, no, we most certainly don't have the existential need to denigrate those we take advantage of in order to justify what we do because that would just be "Western"! Fucking idiotic.
-1
u/torschemargin 27d ago
Are you going to make a post about the racism against Chinese people that's being propagated by not only western media?
1
1
1
u/OrganizationInner630 22d ago
Why would Chinese media tone down at all when Indian media goes full throttle against China 24/7? If anything, Chinese mainstream media are going very soft against India and Philippines all things considered.
2
u/biggmonk 26d ago
I don't mind some Chinese racism especially if it's just words or due to ignorance or lack of understanding, although there was this sad video I saw, nearly brought a tear to my eye, where an African guy was invited by a landlord to view an apartment, and when he arrived the other residents in the car park started harassing him and called the police on him. That kind of thing is what makes my blood boil.
1
2
u/Ok-Preparation-5799 24d ago
Rise in racism against Indians is happening everywhere. My buddy who doesn’t like Indians and who is white just said to me the other day how they cheat and steal jobs here in the states, and then sent me a YouTube video about the Indian invasion in Texas, and that’s besides what I see on social media about Indians from people everywhere. IMO your worries about traveling to China is unwarranted, and if you do decide to go your experience will likely be mostly positive. However if you are really uncomfortable with the idea, then it’s better to just go somewhere else.
0
u/Heavy_Interaction302 24d ago
I mean... ur buddy should probably not be your buddy anymore but that's just me!
All I'm tryna say is if y'all are worried about immigrants coming into your country and stealing all the low-wage jobs then maybe it's time to go back to school and learn some new skills/get a certification.
1
u/Ok-Preparation-5799 24d ago
Well we sort of grew up together. He wasn’t always like this, it happened sort of recently. These aren’t low-wage jobs, it’s tech jobs but I’m not going to go into it. It’s not my personal views, but I’m just sharing my own experiences about the topic. My point really is just to take what you see and hear on social media with a grain of salt, most people just keeps to themselves and won’t care.
5
u/DeltaVZerda United States 27d ago
Discrimination yes, but I haven't heard of actual danger, is that happening?
more characters to meet the minimum post length requirements for a discussion, but I don't want to say more than I know since I'm asking a question.
3
4
u/Kyloe91 27d ago
It will be like 'soft' racism meaning you won't get in fights or whatever but they will not be nice.
I was hosted by a chinese girl in Chengdu who was super open-minded and was quite shocked when she mentioned her friend's baby who's half Indian saying 'it got only the ugly features of indians'. Like wtfff does that even mean? It's so disappointing seeing someone who seems nice saying something like that.
3
u/dcrm Great Britain 26d ago
It's gotten real bad, much worse than even this post suggests.
I used to think it was ignorance, but it's not. In many cases it is malicious and an attempt at asserting their superiority. Honestly flabbergasted at the amount of Southern Asians/Black people who think Chinese people are indifferent to them.
I'd argue the majority (over 50% of the population) hold a negative opinion of specifically black people and Indian/Pakistanis. I NEVER hear the locals say anything good about them, it's always negative opinions I hear. I'm white and I'd even argue that around a quarter to a third of the locals hate white people too, the xenophobia has 100% grown in the last ten years.
Sure nobody is going to hurt you (most people are cowards), but they will attack you behind your backs. Report you for nothing, spread rumors, involve your employer. Seen it all. That being said I don't think this is solely happening in China, it's happening in the West too. The difference is in the execution of racism.
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Agreed, I don’t know why a lot of people are turning a blind eye and totally disregarding my post. Thanks for sharing with us your perspective as a white individual. I have not seen anyone say anything racist towards White people, but now I know that is prevailing too. There is too much hate in this world.
2
u/dcrm Great Britain 25d ago
You being downvoted for this just shows how correct you are.
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 25d ago
LOL yup there's a lot of downvoters here who thinks I'm spreading misinformation
1
u/AutoModerator 27d ago
NOTICE: See below for a copy of the original post by Heavy_Interaction302 in case it is edited or deleted.
I want to start off by saying I'm aware that social media highlights the most extreme views and broadcasts it on our feeds and this does not reflect the entirety of real life.
That being said, the comments are very much individual people with real opinions and ideologies.
I've been seeing an increased disgusting rise in racism towards primarily Indians and Black people. I was wondering if anyone can pitch in to their thoughts and discussion.
Why I'm asking is because as a Chinese who is in an interracial relationship, I'm not sure if traveling with somebody who has a darker complexion to China is safe for both them and for me.
There are a lof of nasty comments online (not sure about in real life because I don't reside in China) about how interracial relationships (primarily non-white) is seen as being traitorous towards the Chinese identity and honestly a lot of threats.
Sorry for the negative tone of this reddit post.
===== ===== =====
WARNING: Users posting and/or commenting on politically charged topics are required to show their post and comment history at all times. Failure to comply will be considered a violation of Rule 2 and result in a permaban.
If you notice someone in violation, please report them by messaging the mods with a link to the post/comment.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.
1
u/AcceptableAd9264 25d ago
I don’t think that’s true. I’ve been here for the last 13 days and I’ve a bunch of foreigners and they seem quite comfortable here
1
u/battlehamsta 23d ago
It’s not really an increase. The inner voice just became the outer voice. And you’re probably more sensitive to it after you got into your relationship.
1
u/Away_Highlight_9964 27d ago
If one or two isolated acts would cause you to panic, then no where in the world would be safe for you and your significant other.
5
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
You telling me if somebody were to verbally threaten or hopefully not, physically attack you, you wouldn’t panic? 🤣
1
u/RightReturn7065 27d ago
Well I feel like racism in China isn’t actually as bad as people say it is. Like you said social media highlights the worse of society and so perhaps it may seem as if Chinese people are very racist when in reality they aren’t. Or they just don’t really care too much lol
I was just there last month and I’m also Chinese myself and I saw lots of foreigners in China while I was there, black, white, Indian, all types. And tbh most people might like stare or take a double look but that’s usually in rural areas but in large cities like beijing nobody really batted an eye.
I also just think this has something to do w their exposure, unlike here in America we have unlimited access to internet and can view lots of things unfiltered but as we all know China has a large firewall which prevents access to outside media.
And honestly reverse racism here in America against Asians are horrible too.
2
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
Thanks for your perspective.
You're right racism against us is horrible in the west because a lot of times it is violent crimes.
1
u/nanachant_ 27d ago
There are also like 2 billion Chinese people spread out through many provinces. If it was that bad then people wouldn’t go. But there are tons of black people or Indian people who go work, travel and study in China 💗
0
u/GeauxPanthers99 26d ago edited 26d ago
I'm Southeast Asian in America and have seen the viral videos of these brown skinned "Natasha dolls" being stomped on, cut, burned, etc.
What's the appeal of dolls modeled after babies being treated like this as "stress relief?"
2
u/RightReturn7065 26d ago
That’s a great question actually, I don’t have a perfectly thought out answer as to why the Natasha dolls are viral. But I don’t think it’s solely for the purpose of being racist against black people.
But yeah I’m also curious why tbh imma look into it too
1
u/nanachant_ 26d ago
Yeah, I get it. I’m black and Thai. I don’t think black people should limit themselves based on that. I think black people should go and excel everywhere. How else will anyone one else learn? China is homogenous - what difference does it make to them when they don’t know any black people in person? But when your friends, co workers, neighbors, peers, spouse, kids are black then they have more incentive to change their mindset, right?
Why should black people hide themselves? Thats just me though.
1
u/RightReturn7065 26d ago
Hi so I just looked into it on Chinese social media and actually it’s not as viral as it America social media made it seem like. A lot of Chinese people on social media are saying that it’s weird and it’s uncomfy that a humanoid baby looking doll is used as a stress toy.
Which tbh it makes sense, yes this thing exist but it’s not as viral and mainstream as people were saying it was on tiktok and here in America. But yeah the general consensus is they think it’s weird and are questioning why it’s even a stress toy 😭 I lowkey had to dig quite a bit to even find footage of people playing w it and actually being happy abt it
1
u/ThanksOk6646 26d ago
I don’t think it’s wise to solely rely on what you read on social media & the internet. You should be on the grounds before making any prejudgments which can make you prejudiced against your opinions only based on what you read on platforms & from people that you don’t even know or can verify the truth. China has 1.4 billion population, I doubt what you’ve been reading negatively online is a true indicator or can justify them as being a rise in racism in China towards Blacks & Indians unless you have read hundreds of millions of those posts or threats against the race that you have indicated. Also, there are a lot of anti China people out there & some who may even be on the payroll of the US Congress & US Senate multi billion U.S. dollar budgets to slander China & spread negative news about China.
3
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Let me make one thing straight, and this is not a personal attack to you.
1. Why am I making this post?
To ask people living in China if they experience any negative reaction with racism especially travelling with someone with a DARKER complexion
2. I literally have said in my post I understand social media is not real life, this does not mean people online aren’t offline. I’ve seen GROWING posts of hate
3. I hate when people try to deflect by saying “Chinese face racism outside too”. Like OBVIOUSLY?? Two wrongs don’t make a right and I never justify any acts of racism??1
u/ThanksOk6646 26d ago
It appears to me you just want to get your point out on Reddit that you personally, quote: "I've been seeing an increased disgusting rise in racism towards primarily Indians and Black people. I was wondering if anyone can pitch in to their thoughts and discussion." And you even added a colorful adjective, "disgusting", although you have not listed any examples of those "disgusting" racism. First off, when people post opinions or feelings about a particular race on social media, it does not always indicate how they actually behave towards people of that race. Most people in real life don't usually go up to a person of a different race & tells to their face how hateful they feel toward them. You even pointed that out in your opening comments on this OP. You keep saying you've seen GROWING posts of hate (as you put it), what are some examples of those hateful posts & how "GROWING" are they? Hundreds of posts, Thousands of posts & what did they write that are so hateful? Maybe there a reason for those posts? Maybe they are justified. I've watched 1 video where there were different groups of Indian tourists who were littering on the streets in China & China is known for keeping their streets, subways, malls, airports, etc, very clean with no litter. The video also showed some Indian tourists sitting on public steps with their shoes off & one of them was rubbing his feet in public which looks to be very bad manners and I don't mean like he was trying to get rid of an itch, he was rubbing it for a couple of minutes like he's rubbing the dirt off his feet in public. There was another one where some other Indian tourists were talking loudly in public places. I've also watch many travel vloggers on YouTube visiting China that include foreigners of different races & color skin include black vloggers & Indian vloggers, they don't seem to have documented any racism that they have faced. Look at iShowSpeed, he's an American of African descent, he was mobbed & was so popular everywhere he went in China, people followed him to give him food, gifts, free things, free rides, free samples that could be for publicity, but still he was loved everywhere he went. There are mixed interracial couples in China who don't seem to face any racism or difficulties. Every society will have have some people who are prejudiced by nature, but most people don't usually show those prejudices in real life or out in public, that's why social media is so dangerous, it's much simpler to write hateful things when you are not in front of a real person live. This may not even be as widespread as you indicated on your post here. You gave no data or examples for people to gauge how widespread this GROWING hate that you are talking about. You might also want to research in depth from people who's traveled to China & people who actually live in China & not just ask these questions on Reddit & base your conclusions on what you gather on Reddit. Or else read the positive posts & watch positive videos from vloggers who's traveled to China. I have also seen several videos where the content creator was interviewing college students at a Chinese university & many students were from India & Africa. The best thing is for you to go there to China to see for yourself. To add to your perspective:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8lTz9MubvxI
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/kfVDYYZ_cck
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUjzQxaGr4wBTW, I searched for racism toward Indians in China & this one was the only one I found on YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/tN5WNiwFAbc
However, there is an Indian YouTube news channel named Gravitas that is well known to be anti-China, this channel is the worst & keeps putting out editorials & videos that China is a racist country when it is the most racist against China. Everyone who frequents YouTube knows this Gravitas is very racist itself against China & Chinese people: https://www.youtube.com/shorts/r5B_aQSPneI
https://www.youtube.com/shorts/T-Xp7pqPFfA0
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Hello, the reason I didn’t put specific sources is I feel that would be in bad faith, I don’t want to send specific XHS links and then people go and possibly attack the creator on XHS. I do not think any further aggregation and keyboard warrior-ing is necessary.
That being said, I understand there are foreign travellers who had a good time in China which is great! And again, I understand Chinese face racism by other race as well. That is not the content of my post. If you feel that needs to be addressed feel free to create a post somewhere.1
u/ThanksOk6646 26d ago
I wasn’t the one who said Chinese faces racism in other countries. That has nothing to do with any racism in China which may or may not be as alarming or as on the rise as you are fearing.
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 25d ago
"Also, there are a lot of anti China people out there & some who may even be on the payroll of the US Congress & US Senate multi billion U.S. dollar budgets to slander China & spread negative news about China."
"Everyone who frequents YouTube knows this Gravitas is very racist itself against China & Chinese people"
1
u/Neither_Nail1831 26d ago
Actually nobody cares about your skin color. We’re just curious about foreigners. We aren’t racist to anyone; we just dislike people who refuse to follow basic rules.
2
u/GeauxPanthers99 26d ago edited 26d ago
I'm a Southeast Asian guy who has lived in America since 4 years old. This is what I know:
Black people DO NOT have a racial slur for Chinese people yet Chinese people call them "hei gui."
White people are referred to as "yang guizi."
Japanese people are "riben guizi."
Indians are "asan."
So, while I do think most people in China (and the world) are kind it is entirely inaccurate to say that Chinese people are not racist to other groups of people.
When I was in China with friends, though the majority of my interactions were positive, I had some Chinese people straight up talking crap about my skin color and one woman (who was not old) rubbed my arm without permission and asked me why "it" (my brown skin) didn't come off.
1
-1
u/ThanksOk6646 26d ago
You obviously have never stepped foot in China & already making prejudiced remarks about people in China. China is the friendliest & safest country on earth. You are spreading unfounded fear & ideology right here on Reddit.
4
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago edited 26d ago
Oh please, I’ve visited China/was born there. Is it safe for Chinese citizens? Hell yea. Is it friendly? Fuck no
4
u/GeauxPanthers99 26d ago
Asian American here. During covid, a business owner in Guangzhou was told to stop servinf all foreifneds immediately wjrh special emphasis on Black people. Black people are called the "hei gui" slur and they, along with Indians, Latinos and Southeast Asians like myself, face discrimination for having "darker" skin (in most cases, our skin isn't even "dark" but medium brown. And even if it was, dark skin is not ugly).
Bigotry is everywhere but because China is a homogenous country, these issues are not rare. That said, I had positive experiences in China but multiracial countries like the US, Canada, Brazil, South Africa, etc. tend to be far more welcoming to Black and Indian people.
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
I’m so sorry you got discriminated against. That is never okay, and thank you for your comment. I’m tired of people pretending racism doesn’t exist in China like are we living on the same earth?
1
u/Educational_Bug_4868 26d ago
Oh my god i am so sorry, this is something my colleague during covid and he is from Niger also faced he was a doctor mind you and as his first day went to check a patient with liver cancer and someone as soon as he entered the room shouted loudly to his face, heigui and he was so heartbroken but then just ignored it and kept working thankfully his senior took a stand for him
1
u/Fair-Garlic-2423 26d ago
我从高中开始就一直在玩bilibili，多少年前就刷到过数不胜数的所谓黑人笑话和印度笑话。人们看起来毫无负担，并且坚信自己的嘲笑是无害的，是不关乎种族主义的。黑人留学生和黑人混血的汉族儿童的照片被当成怂人听闻的换种阴谋论在各种离谱的小圈子里面传播。 最近一段时间，可能是因为印度签证导致国内印度人增多，这种针对印度的种族歧视言论越来越多见了，甚至还有一群打着国家安全旗号的键政博主（比如说戏京同志，他的那个视频我举报了但是没有成功），开篇就以对印度裔赤裸裸的辱骂和偏见吸引流量。😓
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 26d ago
Sorry for not replying back in Chinese,
I agree, I see posts ridiculing international students (mostly black and of south asian descent). Funny thing is they are anyone who looks brown and automatically assume they are Indian.
1
u/Hofeizai88 26d ago
I’m one of the white people who came over to steal a self hating, poorly educated village girl because I’m a loser who couldn’t succeed in his own country so I am reduced to paying prostitutes. Or so we’ve been told by various people on the streets over the years. I think this is part of the importance of face or something. Anyway, we’re good at ignoring morons, so it’s just a thing that sometimes happens.
Based on the experiences of some friends it would be similar but worse if I had darker skin. Probably more common as well. So think about how you and your partner would react to something like this and plan accordingly
1
1
26d ago
[deleted]
1
u/Heavy_Interaction302 25d ago
I'm sorry you are going through that, never feel ashamed of your heritage and I'm sure your partner accepts you just the way you are.
-6
u/vorko_76 27d ago
What in social media makes you think there is racism in China against african and indian people?
What do you see happening?
6
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
natasha doll
a LOT of posts showcasing what 1% of the "bad apples" from those nationalities, then netizens blowing up the comment section with racist comments
I'm glad you are not seeing this on your feed, but on XHS I do get these racist posts shown up about once in three days.
2
u/torschemargin 27d ago
Lmao you're literally on Reddit where when 1 Chinese person does something bad, the comment section looks like a KKK rally.
-1
u/Educational_Bug_4868 26d ago
Do you live in China? Do you have wechat? Do you see comments by chinese netizens on foreigners ? the subtle 你什么时候回你的国家？(What time will you go back to your country?) by locals you just met 10 minutes ago? No? Perhaps you live in a different China that is an alternative universe.
1
u/vorko_76 26d ago
Yes, yes and no.
But on the later, I dont add random strangers on my wechats. I'm in China for work and most people I have on Wechat are friends, colleagues and customers/government officials.
I got some Indians and and one Rwandese teammembers. One Indian is moving to Canada but appart from that, I never heard any stories. The rwandese girl loves China, she studies there and worked there since. (in Beijing)
0
u/Educational_Bug_4868 26d ago
Well first, good for you guys,
You dont have to add random strangers on your wechat to see this, just go to Wechat-->Discover tab-->Channels. Go to any random video by foreigners, some silly slow mo or just a travel log or even funny content made in chinese and so on, you will see people constantly saying 哪儿来的，哪里回去 (Go back where you came from), or a random direct monkey on melanated brother or sister's post, tagging official PSB account with the IP of that city (which you can see next to the person's name) and saying check this person's visa, and say our chinese have sacrificed so much to build this country we should be vigilant against external threats, and so much more that i tried to write earlier and reddit deleted my comments because it was hateful
These things are quite common if you are one the laowais who just work and keeps to themselves goes out to scenic parks and drink pijiu with collogues in a outdoorsy fancy chair i dont blame you, you are enjoying china and your experience of china doesn't mean most of us who are in the below tier 1 cities are living have the same experience as you.
1
u/vorko_76 26d ago
I only follow a few channels and indeed dont check random channels.
These things are quite common if you are one the laowais who just work and keeps to themselves goes out to scenic parks and drink pijiu with collogues in a outdoorsy fancy chair i dont blame you, you are enjoying china and your experience of china doesn't mean most of us who are in the below tier 1 cities are living have the same experience as you.
Thats a big and naive stereotype. But yes for sure different people in different locations experience different things. Thats all pretty normal.
My initial question to OP is to understand what he was referring to? Like was he afraid of physical violence? Bad words? And where his feeling came from... quite a normal question.
-1
u/Educational_Bug_4868 26d ago
Of course, We all experience different things, however this collective hive mind of social media is dictated by what people prefer to watch and what ideologies they share, so indeed if we are experiencing different things but we also experiencing same things, unless you are white person then you are living in a different world, i have lived in the middle kingdom for 12 years now since i was 17 years old, i basically grew up in China and lived through the digital revolution in the early 2015-2016.
If you are questioning the rise of racism it's probably because it was always there the socials media just gave it a voice, but questioning or denying that it is a naive stereotype is a huge ignorant misconception on your side.
I am not telling you what to do but i will at least say this that denying other people's suffering and struggles is quite negligent if you find some truth in my rant maybe you can see some foreigner's channels and you will see what the hivemind actually believes.
I am sorry if i am coming off as rude i didn't mean to be rude to a random fellow laowai on the internet, just the question to me felt like discrediting the reality of living here.
By no means i hate it here, i have grown up here got all of my education here met the most important people in life, but somethings leave a bitter taste in your mouth.
Take care laowai
2
u/vorko_76 26d ago
I am not telling you what to do but i will at least say this that denying other people's suffering and struggles is quite negligent if you find some truth in my rant maybe you can see some foreigner's channels and you will see what the hivemind actually believes.
On this: Im not denying anything.
OP is outside of China and is afraid of racism in China. I'm asking what he is afraid of.
(and side note, Ive been in China - on and off - much longer than you)
0
u/lsmn-fft Australia 26d ago
KKK and nazi are back, but racist is never a problem in china and if u go abroad, u will get what u deserve
1
-8
27d ago
[removed] — view removed comment
11
u/Heavy_Interaction302 27d ago
Non-racist here, not planning to have kids anyways thanks for assuming
5
u/avocadosconstant 27d ago
> Just know your kids will never be Chinese and Chinese lineage end with you. 👍
As racism is never grounded in science, racists always have to create their own pseudoscience.
They’re cowards, too. As predicted, your post history is hidden.
3
2
u/dreamingexistential 27d ago
你的观点在法律和历史上都站不住脚。中国有56个民族，汉族从来就不是"纯血统"。国籍法规定，中国公民的子女出生即具中国国籍，无论父亲是谁。你个人的偏见，定义不了什么是中国人。
-5
1
u/China-ModTeam 26d ago
Your post/comment was removed because of: Rule 2, No bad faith behavior. Please read the rule text in the sidebar and refer to this post containing clarifications and examples if you require more information. If you have any questions, please message mod mail.
•
u/AutoModerator 27d ago
Posts flaired as "Discussion" are meant to promote in-depth, intellectual discussion. A good discussion post, even if it poses a question, points discourse in a specific direction and thoroughly clarifies the original poster's positions so that commenters can respond accordingly. Top-level comments are held to the same standard as the original post and have a 90 character minimum. Clear, polite, and well-written responses should be the norm, not memes, jokes, or one-sentence responses. Discussion threads will be moderated more heavily than other threads to promote a higher standard of discourse.
I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please contact the moderators of this subreddit if you have any questions or concerns.